Project M Social Thread

[ELI-mination]

Fox won because melee.

Also, Strong Bad will be at the **** zone aka my house on 11/18 - 11/20 I believe.

 

[JOE!]

Actually, D3 is from Pop Star which is the planet Dream Land is located.

Isn't Dream Land on pop star?

 

[KingBlaze777]

Doesn't matter, it's still Kirby's property and thus D3 belongs to it (or at least the planet he's currently living in)

 

[Ishiey]

Two things:

1) How far are the closest P:M players from central NJ? Do you guys have any smashfests or whatever set up?

2) How do NY people (Eli/Leelue/whoeverelse) feel about coming to smashfests at New Brunswick? We could set up a small tournament too if people are interested, and order ****tons of food since we're on a college campus.

If it helps, we've got demo 2.5 :3 and by "we" I mean IE, because he's a dev but is too lazy to make posts and set stuff up so I'm here doing it for him. We're getting tired of playing the same two MUs every day, seriously, someone please help us.

 

[cannedbread]

i would probably come if i had like a ride or something. funny i was just gonna ask about smashfests or whatever.

 

[Ishiey]

Do it. We can pick you up from the train station at New Brunswick free of charge if you can't get a carpool :3

 

[bubbaking]

Doesn't matter, it's still Kirby's property and thus D3 belongs to it (or at least the planet he's currently living in)

Other way around. It's D3's property and Kirby belongs to it.....under MK's foot.

Two things:

1) How far are the closest P:M players from central NJ? Do you guys have any smashfests or whatever set up?

2) How do NY people (Eli/Leelue/whoeverelse) feel about coming to smashfests at New Brunswick? We could set up a small tournament too if people are interested, and order ****tons of food since we're on a college campus.

If it helps, we've got demo 2.5 :3 and by "we" I mean IE, because he's a dev but is too lazy to make posts and set stuff up so I'm here doing it for him. We're getting tired of playing the same two MUs every day, seriously, someone please help us.

Or you could, you know, come up to this tournament. I'm sure you could catch a carpool there if you took the train to Penn Station or Jamaica or something.

 

[cannedbread]

sounds cool

umm when do you plan on doing this? i would definitely come if i was with the other local li/new york cool kids but if it was in the foreseeable future i have no problem figuring out how to get there

oh yeah i do plan on going to the tournament bubbaking mentioned

 

[bubbaking]

If we get to play in December, get ready to face my Charizard . (I might switch back to being an Ike main by then, I'm not too sure.)

Yooo, you too! If you can somehow make it to NY by December 1st, you should definitely come up to Smash Brothers University. I need to learn some things up close and personal from your Charizard. I also have a friend who practically adores your Ike (in P:M and vBrawl).

 

[ph00tbag]

Lol yea. Just the suggestion that Sonic can avoid getting hit for the entirety of a match that isn't on like Dreamland and deal enough damage with his weak moves, get a kill at 200% every stock, while avoiding every attack perfectly without the ability to out-prioritize anything makes me chuckle.

Well, then maybe the problem isn't that he "loses to hitboxes," (because he doesn't, actually) but rather that he doesn't get enough reward off of the times he does get around opponents.

I actually would put to you that improving his priority wouldn't do jack to make Sonic better. It would just mean that scrubs who run in without regard can get away with it more often. But the payoff for any random hit would be the same, and he still would not be able to KO until past 200%.

 

[Ishiey]

Or you could, you know, come up to this tournament. I'm sure you could catch a carpool there if you took the train to Penn Station or Jamaica or something.

We are really really lazy. But possibly

sounds cool

umm when do you plan on doing this? i would definitely come if i was with the other local li/new york cool kids but if it was in the foreseeable future i have no problem figuring out how to get there

oh yeah i do plan on going to the tournament bubbaking mentioned

Preferably on Fridays, but we won't be starting until after Thanksgiving due to all sorts of other stuff going on. If Fridays are crappy for everyone else, we can try moving it to Saturdays.

Oh, people can also spend the night on Friday if that makes it a more appealing option.

EDIT: We also have a recording setup, might be able to set up a stream, idk yet.

 

[ELI-mination]

Well, fruitbag, suppose that he did have more priority. Then you'd see Sonics approaching more. Sonic players would be faced with constant scenarios trying to decide whether it's a good time to approach or not and will sometimes choose the wrong option.

I'm under the impression that people who think Sonic is a very good character think so for 2 reasons:

1) Because he's fast as hell
2) Because they get hit by homing attack too much and feel helpless

The first is contradicted by his lack of priority, inability to perform strong combos, and inability to KO very well. Also his poor grab range.

The second stems from people who have very little or no experience fighting Sonic, and are simply surprised or dumbfounded by his awkward gimmicks.

 

[bubbaking]

Whenever someone says a character's main weakness is hitboxes, I always have to wonder why they're running into so many hitboxes.

Why are you running into hitboxes, when you know even trading isn't likely to favor you?

'Cause the other choices are to run away from them or just stand there and look at 'em.

What I'm trying to suggest, particularly in Sonic's case, is that he has the speed to get around the hitboxes. You just have to be very patient and precise in your punishes. No lingering hitbox is fully persistent, and there's always downtime, so just punish during the downtime.

You know, not all downtime is that punishable. If someone keeps throwing out well-timed SHFFL'd sex kicks, the only downtime would be the 6 frames or so of landing lag that the move has. It's even worse against chars like Sheik and, to an extent, Falcon who have applicable long-lasting bairs in addition to their high-priority, long-lasting nairs. Normally, if someone kept spamming those moves, you'd beat them in a RPS battle because they don't have very punishable "downtime". Not Sonic, though.

It's basically the same argument for why Taokaka is consistently considered a strong character in BB. Her hitboxes look like total **** from any perspective (her drive attacks don't extend past her hurtboxes at all), and it's certainly conceivable that one would lose terribly if one just ran into hitboxes with her, but it's the distance she can cover to punish attacks on reaction that makes her absurdly strong. Sonic has a lot of similar tools.

Yeah, but BB's a real FG and P:M's not. There actually is punishable "downtime" in a fighting game that's not Divekick Central. I mean, you can't really compare Smash to a fighting game. For example: Fast characters are great in FG's because they can quickly cross you up or throw out a high/low mixup, and if you're blocking the wrong way, you're screwed. In Smash, our all-encompassing shields block such nonsense.

Edit: You can run back and forth around Samus's shield all you want. You're still going to get upB'd OoS regardless if you hit it, no matter where you actually did.

 

[Hylian]

I feel like you aren't giving enough credit to baiting as a legitimate tactic Eli.

 

[bubbaking]

Bait what? If I see Sonic run at me, I nair/bair. The lag on these moves isn't really enough for Sonic to capitalize without trying to overcome them in the process.

 

[ELI-mination]

I feel like you aren't giving enough credit to baiting as a legitimate tactic Eli.

Baiting is a legitimate tactic. It's Sonic's only real option. Sonic has to bait and punish constantly and look for a gimp. That's the Sonic metagame.

Problem is, his punishes aren't good enough and he can't bait enough times in a single match to win unless his opponent foolishly walks into all his traps without baiting Sonic himself.

So yea it's a legitimate tactic. I should know; I play against the two most campy players in the world, Leelue and Gurukid. One of whom is the best Sonic player.

 

[bubbaking]

Well, then maybe the problem isn't that he "loses to hitboxes," (because he doesn't, actually) but rather that he doesn't get enough reward off of the times he does get around opponents.

That's also a problem, compounded by the fact that Sonic has a super hard time netting any "reward" in the first place.

I actually would put to you that improving his priority wouldn't do jack to make Sonic better. It would just mean that scrubs who run in without regard can get away with it more often. But the payoff for any random hit would be the same, and he still would not be able to KO until past 200%.

That legitimately does not make sense.....at all. If Sonic (or any character) were to receive more priority on their moves, they'd win more trades.....'cause they'd trade less. Like Sonic could actually aim to beat out moves then, 'cause he'd actually have a shot at overpowering them in RPS battles. It's true that his actual rewards off of hit-confirms would be the same, but he'd get so many more hits that this would, without a doubt, be a useful buff.

OK, here's a simpler explanation for it:
If Sheik nairs in front of current Sonic, his thought process is "Oh dang, I can't beat that! Better just stare at it and try to see if I can punish its nonpunishable lag somehow." If Sheik nairs in front of Sonic with increased priority, his thought process becomes "Oh dang, I can BEAT that! Let me just use my well-spaced fair (or whatever move got buffed priority)."

 

[metroid1117]

Yooo, you too! If you can somehow make it to NY by December 1st, you should definitely come up to Smash Brothers University. I need to learn some things up close and personal from your Charizard. I also have a friend who practically adores your Ike (in P:M and vBrawl).

Sorry, I definitely won't be able to make it out to NY at that time because that's around the time I have finals and stuff. It'd be cool to go to an EC tournament to see how I do against you guys though, I wish I could make it =/.

Also, my Ike is so bad in vBrawl, I don't see why he likes it haha. San, Ryo, Bored, and Kirk are much better at using vBrawl Ike than I am.

 

[Nintendude]

I've now played both Leelue and Rat in tournament and I gotta say they play absolutely nothing alike. Whenever NY vs. Rat happens I think NY will be in for a surprise. Has anyone else here played both of them?

 

[leelue]

Phootbag
This is very reductionistic but its fun anyway

Have someone competent play as luigi, and tell him to turn around and just short hop repeatedly.
Have someone else play sonic and have him try to approach luigi by baiting
Luigi is allowed to protect himself, but through bairs and up airs.

This is surprisingly hard for sonic to beat, as long as luigi is a good player and attacks with as little prediction as possible. If he's bairing on reaction to sonic entering his bubble, its very very hard to bait anything out of him.

This may work with marth, if marth only uses jab and grab.

Edit: ooh Nintendude now we gotta get Eli vs Rat and Leelue vs WhoeverRatPlays
That'd be siiiick

 

[bubbaking]

Whoever linked the OU stats:

How in the hell are Gengar and Ninetails above Terrakion??? Some of these numbers and spots are fwabababa

Ahhh what the heck! My interest was really piqued by this blatantly off-topic post. Why not talk about Pokemon while we're at it?

Gengar's been a really popular Pokemon since forever. A revenge killer, a spin blocker, immune to the ubiquitous Earthquake, he's one of the best at what he does. Ninetails is obviously really used because he counters the other forms of weather, Sun and Rain.

#OffTopic

Edit: Sand and Rain, not Sun and Rain.

Sorry, I definitely won't be able to make it out to NY at that time because that's around the time I have finals and stuff. It'd be cool to go to an EC tournament to see how I do against you guys though, I wish I could make it =/.

Also, my Ike is so bad in vBrawl, I don't see why he likes it haha. San, Ryo, Bored, and Kirk are much better at using vBrawl Ike than I am.

Awww! Well, hopefully we have more P:M tournaments in the near future. Idk though, LI seems to be pretty bad when it comes to creating activity for the P:M scene here... Heck, why am I putting all the blame on us? All of NY is pretty bad with this. Eli should just hold a tournament and host all of us in his house!

Yeah, my friend said something about how you should get serious with Ike in vBrawl again. I think he also said you were the reason he plays Ike competitively in vBrawl or something like that.

#OnTopicAgain

 

[Oro?!]

Thank you Nintendude.

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

Ahhh what the heck! My interest was really piqued by this blatantly off-topic post. Why not talk about Pokemon while we're at it?

Gengar's been a really popular Pokemon since forever. A revenge killer, a spin blocker, immune to the ubiquitous Earthquake, he's one of the best at what he does. Ninetails is obviously really used because he counters the other forms of weather, Sun and Rain.

#OffTopic

You mean Sand right?

On topic, the new additions in 2.5 are looking pretty cool. Squirtle and Ivysaur both look like very fun characters and KB Stacking is going to help with the overall Melee feel. Keep up the good work P:M devs!

 

[metroid1117]

I've now played both Leelue and Rat in tournament and I gotta say they play absolutely nothing alike. Whenever NY vs. Rat happens I think NY will be in for a surprise. Has anyone else here played both of them?

Chillin and Rat probably got some games in during TBH2, but I don't think anyone else would have experience against both Leelue and Rat.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Well, fruitbag, suppose that he did have more priority. Then you'd see Sonics approaching more. Sonic players would be faced with constant scenarios trying to decide whether it's a good time to approach or not and will sometimes choose the wrong option.

I'm under the impression that people who think Sonic is a very good character think so for 2 reasons:

1) Because he's fast as hell
2) Because they get hit by homing attack too much and feel helpless

The first is contradicted by his lack of priority, inability to perform strong combos, and inability to KO very well. Also his poor grab range.

The second stems from people who have very little or no experience fighting Sonic, and are simply surprised or dumbfounded by his awkward gimmicks.

Sometimes I feel like Sonic is good.

Then I realize I'm just using DeDeDe and it takes five years to jump.

 

[Spoon~]

I've now played both Leelue and Rat in tournament and I gotta say they play absolutely nothing alike. Whenever NY vs. Rat happens I think NY will be in for a surprise. Has anyone else here played both of them?

No two players are ever really going to play alike.

#nextlevellogic

 

[Dingding123]

No two players are ever really going to play alike.

#nextlevellogic

idk ithnk ervy1s try2 n3e as flacon

 

[bubbaking]

Bset. Psot. Eevr. Form Dnigdnig.

You mean Sand right?

Oh yeah, that! Lolz, edited it in. Thanks for the catch.

 

[moleman915]

So mewtwo2000 made a new background for final destination. I heard it was going to be in P.M. 2.5 and I was wondering if it will be shown the next time someone streams. I'm really curious to see it in action. The current background looks pretty not so good.

 

[Kati]

Luckily there are plenty of downloadable alternatives for the default P:M final destination. I'm not sure if Xenozoa425 has a smashboards account, but you should check his stuff on brawlvault.

Has making a css with Blacked out squares for every non-playable character ever been considered? As in, imitating CSS's where some characters haven't been unlocked yet.

 

[9Kplus1]

Ninetails is obviously really used because he counters the other forms of weather, Sun and Rain.

You're forgetting that sun generally does poorly against sand and some rain teams. The only reason behind why sun is even used nowadays is due to Chlorophyll being broken as ****, Genesect, and Heat Wave Xatu being a huge ****ing nuisance. Drizzle and Drought are like the only reasons behind why Gen V is absolute *** right now; Deo-D, Genesect, Torn-T, Keldeo, and even Kyu-B are acceptable without the presence of those two broken *** abilities.

 

[Professor Pro]

Hey guys, there will be a UK LiveStream of Project M v2.5 today feat. Myself, Fuzzyness & Alpha Dash starting at 4pm GMT (so about 5 hours from this post) which should be running throughout the daytime.

I'll be showcasing a lot of Snake and also Ivysaur for those who are curious of his progress

MAKE SURE to tune in and subscribe @ www.twitch.tv/Fuzzyness

Will re-post when stream is live!!!

 

[ph00tbag]

Well, fruitbag, suppose that he did have more priority. Then you'd see Sonics approaching more. Sonic players would be faced with constant scenarios trying to decide whether it's a good time to approach or not and will sometimes choose the wrong option.

But they'd still not get anything off of any of their decisions to trade. Sonic would be more accessible because rushing down would be a viable way to land hits, but he still wouldn't have effective ways of punishing off of those hits. There are already plenty of characters that just run in and try to outprioritize stuff with big hitboxes. Sonic doesn't really need to be another one.

This is surprisingly hard for sonic to beat, as long as luigi is a good player and attacks with as little prediction as possible. If he's bairing on reaction to sonic entering his bubble, its very very hard to bait anything out of him.

Well, I'm not trying to say it'd be easy. I'm trying to say it'd be possible.

 

[bubbaking]

You're forgetting that sun generally does poorly against sand and some rain teams. The only reason behind why sun is even used nowadays is due to Chlorophyll being broken as ****, Genesect, and Heat Wave Xatu being a huge ****ing nuisance. Drizzle and Drought and Sand Stream are like the only reasons behind why Gen V is absolute *** right now; Deo-D, Genesect, Torn-T, Keldeo, and even Kyu-B are acceptable without the presence of those three broken *** abilities.

Fixed that for ya.

Oh, well, yeah. I was assuming that it was already well-known that weather made (and broke) competitive Gen V. Sun sucks in general, largely because Ninetales is the worst weather setter after Abomasnow (partly because he is so fast which is really funny in today's troll speed metagame). Chlorophyll is only broken if you're using it on (wait for it) Venusaur or Victreebel. I'm not even kidding, check out Victree's competitive sets; the guy can 2HKO every single poke under the sun with one growth, even Evio Chansey. Btw, sun is also used because it screws Ferro (the dumbest pokemone alive) and Forry, but Sun can actually counter Sand and Rain quite effectively, especially if you use Sunny Tales so he can Sunny Day as/after the opponent switches in his own weather setter.

But they'd still not get anything off of any of their decisions to trade. Sonic would be more accessible because rushing down would be a viable way to land hits, but he still wouldn't have effective ways of punishing off of those hits. There are already plenty of characters that just run in and try to outprioritize stuff with big hitboxes. Sonic doesn't really need to be another one.

I wouldn't mind that his punishes suck if he got the chance to rack up damage way faster through being able to challenge more moves. Those other "characters that just run in and try to outprioritize stuff with big hitboxes" also get to combo well (spacees, Jiggs, Sheik) or they're powerhouses who kill in a few hits anyway (Bowser). Sonic wouldn't be "another" of anything. Every char should be allowed to access and benefit from the RPS system.

Well, I'm not trying to say it'd be easy. I'm trying to say it'd be possible.

Kinda sad that it's that difficult to deal with a hopping Luigi when other fast chars, like Fox and Falcon, can just bait him and bair/nair him.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Chlorophyll is only broken if you're using it on (wait for it) Venusaur or Victreebel. I'm not even kidding, check out Victree's competitive sets; the guy can 2HKO every single poke under the sun with one growth, even Evio Chansey.

I mean, a lot of Pokémon can claim that once they have weather boosting one of their moves and they've had time to set up. Victreebel is far too frail for that to happen often anywhere close to reliably in OU.

 

[9Kplus1]

> Implying that sand is as broken as rain / sun
> Implying that sun "counters" sand

Bubba, you no longer have the right to talk about Gen V OU -- and I stopped reading your post there.

Also, Reflex, Victreebell doesn't give a single crap about taking a hit since: 1. It's going to be outspeeding and reaming everything, anyway 2. It resists Mach Punch and 3. Sun takes a huge creamy poop all over other imposing priority users

Oh, and great job placing 3rd again, Hilleean; Link is broken. See? I'm still talking about P:M.

 

[DMG]

I don't like going for Sunny Day as Ninetails. It's a huge risk prediction wise imo and it's hard to pull off consecutively with Stealth Rock so prevalent. Honestly the typing for Ninetails hurts it the most, makes it hard to deal with SR and starts off disadvantaged to both Rain and Sand. Using it repeatedly for shifting weather into your favor is bound to go less favorably than the other 2 main starters regardless of what set you are running. Then again, you know exactly what you are getting into when you run Sun instead of Rain.

Non Poketalk, LINK!

Edit: How much would Bullet Punch Scizor do to Victree? I don't have the numbers off the top of my head but I'm nearly certain it takes a massive 80+ chunk out of it

Wouldn't be unreasonable to see a Mamoswine/Ice Shard somewhere either, ideally not there just to check grass sweepers lol

 

[Spoon~]

pokemans talk is weak stuff, back to PM

 

[Oracle]

Hypothetically, were there a regional for P:M in Texas some time next year, how many would be able to make the trip out? One of our TO's has expressed interest in organizing one since our scene is pretty decent but the other big scenes are all kind of far. It would probably have one of the other games (or both) depending on what people wanted

 

[KingBlaze777]

Other way around. It's D3's property and Kirby belongs to it.....under MK's foot.

It's called Kirby's Dream Land, not D3's Dream Land nor MK's Dream Land. Your argument is invalid.