Project M Social Thread

[cannedbread]

fighting an ike feels like such a chore
i don't really care anymore if he gets buffed/nerfed or whatever
i just dislike fighting an even average ike player
he's such a chore to edgeguard, he doesn't get comboed as much as people say, etc.
it's like peach with a ****

 

[GP&B]

Don't forget the 4-foot **** he wields.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

In Melee, handicap worked on nine different levels; level 9 was the default, and the lower you put it, the more knockback that character would take and the less knockback his opponents would incur. It's a lot like the Super/Poison Mushroom item mechanics.

That said, would people want this kind of handicap to be brought back from Melee? Or would they prefer the Brawl-style, "raise the starting percent" handicap?

 

[cannedbread]

YES i loved that handicap

no one uses buffer anyways

and the people that do are scorned for it

 

[TheReflexWonder]

YES i loved that handicap

no one uses buffer anyways

and the people that do are scorned for it

This isn't really about buffer as much as it is Melee-style handicap vs. Brawl-style handicap.

 

[NeoZ]

This isn't really about buffer as much as it is Melee-style handicap vs. Brawl-style handicap.

I think I've never used the handicap in Melee.
If you don't mind me asking, how did it work in Brawl?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think I've never used the handicap in Melee.
If you don't mind me asking, how did it work in Brawl?

It just raised a player's starting percent. Whenever they spawn, it determines their starting percent in multiples of 10.

Like, you would start each life at 10%, 20%, 50%, or whatever you felt like setting it to.

That's compared to Melee handicap, where a couple numbers make the difference between Super Mushroom and Poison Mushroom. Level 1 vs. Level 9 meant that the person set to Level 1 died to pretty much any attack, like the Yoshis in Very Easy Adventure Mode, while the Level 9 person didn't start dying until 500+%.

 

[ELI-mination]

I'm sorry metroid, but I shall admit no such thing. Sorry to you there also, Mr. Grimm, but I disagree so, so, so much about Ike.

If Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Marth are all allowed to be as good as they are "because melee", there's not a single stupid thing about Ike. I can't even believe my ears when people have the nerve to complain about other characters when that super homo melee top tier still exists. Not to mention that Ike, with all his supposed "broken-ness" or "excessive" power/attributes is STILL WORSE THAN THOSE CHARACTERS.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Well if it makes you feel better i want fox and falco to be pal fox and falco, shiek dthrow got nerfed so whatever and marth is not as good as you think he is imo. And i am not saying ike is the best just that his character build is poor and needs reworking

 

[Onomanic]

I think people are unwilling to complain about the Melee top tiers because it's been over ten years. We've learned the match ups, we know their strengths and weaknesses. Those characters have changed with the metagame over a decade and know the ins and outs of the characters. They are discovered, fully known. I believe people are more willing to complain about Ike because he is new and people are in a much more "Melee 2" mindset instead of a "Project M" mindset. Instead of being able to thrash Ike with Fox or Sheik, Ike is actually a difficult MU so players would rather see him nerfed so they can go about with their top tiers from Melee. I've thought about whether or not by the end of P:M's development if Fox and Falco will continue being the top two or some other character will step up and take that position.

 

[DMG]

I'm sorry metroid, but I shall admit no such thing. Sorry to you there also, Mr. Grimm, but I disagree so, so, so much about Ike.

If Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Marth are all allowed to be as good as they are "because melee", there's not a single stupid thing about Ike. I can't even believe my ears when people have the nerve to complain about other characters when that super homo melee top tier still exists. Not to mention that Ike, with all his supposed "broken-ness" or "excessive" power/attributes is STILL WORSE THAN THOSE CHARACTERS.

Everyone should be top tier! GG

 

[ELI-mination]

More like those characters are stupid, bring them down 15 million levels all the way down to Ike level. GG

 

[Divinokage]

Well if you really want more time to let Ike's become even stronger with their BS, that's fine by me. And you'll all realize how much BS it is.

 

[metroid1117]

I'm sorry metroid, but I shall admit no such thing. Sorry to you there also, Mr. Grimm, but I disagree so, so, so much about Ike.

If Fox, Falco, Sheik, and Marth are all allowed to be as good as they are "because melee", there's not a single stupid thing about Ike. I can't even believe my ears when people have the nerve to complain about other characters when that super homo melee top tier still exists. Not to mention that Ike, with all his supposed "broken-ness" or "excessive" power/attributes is STILL WORSE THAN THOSE CHARACTERS.

That's a good point, I wish you brought this up earlier. I honestly don't have good response to this. However, I feel that with more time, the current Ike can prove to be better than the current Marth.

In case anyone cares, I've uploaded matches of my Ganon against Mad's Ike. I couldn't edgeguard Aether as well as I liked because Mad preferred to recover with QD almost all the time, but here are the times I hit him out of Aether: 2:53, 4:03, 4:17, 5:40, 10:33, and 15:25. However, note that the only time I hit him out of Aether as he was recovering was the last time; all of the other times were edgehopped Aether, which is not the typical angle that Ikes recover at and required a fair amount of reading on my part.

On a side note, I thought edgeguarding low QD's with DTilt -> UAir/FAir worked fairly well. Reverse UAir is probably the best option though.

 

[cannedbread]

its like the percent meter thing on training mode in brawl it sucks melee handicap is like 10x better

 

[`dazrin]

In Melee, handicap worked on nine different levels; level 9 was the default, and the lower you put it, the more knockback that character would take and the less knockback his opponents would incur. It's a lot like the Super/Poison Mushroom item mechanics.

That said, would people want this kind of handicap to be brought back from Melee? Or would they prefer the Brawl-style, "raise the starting percent" handicap?

I honestly don't know who actually uses handicap enough to care, but it would seem like the brawl handicap would be a lot easier to implement from a developers standpoint for something that not many people are actually concerned about.

 

[JCaesar]

You're still not going to The Big House 2, right? I would've mm'd your ROB and Link =/.

I'm trying to find a way there.

I would not do ROB vs Ike in a mm haha. I'll do Link or Marth though.

It just raised a player's starting percent. Whenever they spawn, it determines their starting percent in multiples of 10.

Like, you would start each life at 10%, 20%, 50%, or whatever you felt like setting it to.

That's compared to Melee handicap, where a couple numbers make the difference between Super Mushroom and Poison Mushroom. Level 1 vs. Level 9 meant that the person set to Level 1 died to pretty much any attack, like the Yoshis in Very Easy Adventure Mode, while the Level 9 person didn't start dying until 500+%.

I used Melee handicap to learn how to pillar with Falco back in the day. It's a useful training tool.

 

[iLink]

Honestly my only gripe with Ike is how good he is for how fairly simple and easy he is to use. His huge aerials are a huge asset to anyone that can l-cancel. Most of his attacks or combos will knock you off stage easily where his edgeguarding is braindead simple.

I don't think he is godly but he feels fraudulent when I have to put in a ton more effort into weaving and baiting around his huge hitboxes which lead to fairly easy combos/edgeguards.

Also sheik is not as good as melee

 

[Medz!]

critique my marth please it will be much appreciated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egguhJ8wXsU
this match is vs k9's ness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaARENPCvc0&feature=relmfu
this match is vs kiraflax's charizard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeiivHXl5iM&feature=related
kiraflax challenged me to a MM after

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydL-Eizhxb0&feature=relmfu
vs k9 in loser's finals

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-D34FA5_Kk&feature=plcp
vs axe in winner's finals

 

[-Chad-]

i think fox and falco should be able to have action out of their side b's.

and jiggs on her neutral b

 

[Juushichi]

I think Fox needs it to compete in this game now.

 

[DMG]

Just let everyone wall jump out of recoveries. Mario had it as a glitch in Melee, brought it back. Falcon is too easy to edge guard, make him scoop the walls and give life once more. More options, more fun.

 

[-Chad-]

let everyone have everything forever it'll make a great game i promise

 

[OmegaMuffin]

Streaming for like 15 mins as a test. Let me now what you guys think

http://www.justin.tv/theomegamuffin

 

[metroid1117]

I'm trying to find a way there.

I would not do ROB vs Ike in a mm haha. I'll do Link or Marth though.

Sure thing, I hope you can make it!

 

[ELI-mination]

Let's play a game for over a decade and shiver at the mere thought of change or the idea of a sequel.

Also, what is this nonsense about have more than 5 or 6 viable characters out of huge cast?

Fox can kill people at 0% with shine? And he can jump out of it, usmash out of it, JC grab out of it, and shine OoS? That's cool. Anybody else that's given attacks that are good but marginally worse than shine must be stupid or broken though.

I'm gonna keep talking like this, all condescendingly and elitist because I play an outdated game with severe balance issues and 5 characters. I know what I'm talking about when I criticize a demo.

When it's been pointed out that I'm being dumb, I'll just shrug and say I was trolling.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I dont disagree with you eli, but that doesnt make ike's character any better. I guess i have just resigned myself to the fact that the space animals will never get nerfed no matter what, but there is still time to fix ike's gameplay

 

[Strong Badam]

you do realize that you just admitted that you're complaining about a character that isn't the best character in the game, right?

 

[-Chad-]

Let's play a game for over a decade and shiver at the mere thought of change or the idea of a sequel.

Also, what is this nonsense about have more than 5 or 6 viable characters out of huge cast?

Fox can kill people at 0% with shine? And he can jump out of it, usmash out of it, JC grab out of it, and shine OoS? That's cool. Anybody else that's given attacks that are good but marginally worse than shine must be stupid or broken though.

I'm gonna keep talking like this, all condescendingly and elitist because I play an outdated game with severe balance issues and 5 characters. I know what I'm talking about when I criticize a demo.

When it's been pointed out that I'm being dumb, I'll just shrug and say I was trolling.

lol jeez sounds like i struck a nerve.

at fc there were much more than 5 characters represented in the top 32 lol

i dont even know what to say to this lol its so absurd

 

[Onomanic]

I say we drop the arguing about arguing and discuss something constructive.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Everyone's perception of constructive seems to be "Here's how we need to nerf Ike" on the premise that he's too good instead of something that actually is constructive such as "Okay so here's how you beat Ike's X" on the premise that maybe they just need more practice.

 

[`dazrin]

Comon, guys!
Just be friends!

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

you do realize that you just admitted that you're complaining about a character that isn't the best character in the game, right?

If you read my posts you would see i never once called ike the best or broken or that he needs nerfs without buffs. I have said his character build is not very good and i feel needs some reworking. I am also fair and do believe fox and falco should be nerfed to their pal equivalents.

 

[`dazrin]

Fox or Falco didn't even place in the top 6 at Melee-FC. Yakal was close, but he lost to Chad's Mario pretty handily and Chad took the top6 placing instead.

I don't see why Fox and Falco would need to have to be nerfed. If you look at PM tournament results, you don't see nearly as many space animals winning tournaments.
There's so much character variety in PM that so many people aren't restricted to just play spacies anyways

 

[Kink-Link5]

Ike needs buffs before he needs nerfs. He has a lot more flaws than positive attributes.

Try dashdancing. Ike is more safe on block than he is on whiff.

 

[DrinkingFood]

So are you suggesting *gasp* dont shield against his sword?

Well ah'll be derned if none of us here unedahcated folk coulda thoughta sometin so dern obvious. Ah mean he's so dern intimadatin' I cant help but ta shield all day insteada figurin out what the problem is

 

[-Chad-]

every time i tried to go around ike's moves i get clipped and it seems to have more gimping/killing knockback than normal lol

 

[Kink-Link5]

Mario's DD is pretty crap, who else were you using Chad?

 

[ELI-mination]

I have to say I very much prefer troll Drinkingfood to douchebag Drinkingfood.

 

[cannedbread]

when you walk away you don't hear me say