Project M Social Thread

[cannedbread]

guys quack is really easy

step 1: pick pika
step 2: pick fd because it's easiest to do it on
step 3: quick attack forward on first burst
step 4: aim second burst into ground
step 5: for a couple of frames you can either jump (easy), dair (kinda easy but you gotta be fast), nair (type hard), bair (cute but hard as ****) or qa again (axe as ****)

 

[PGH Carroll]

Ikes pretty simple as well

step 1: pick Ike
step 2: pick a stage

 

[`dazrin]

Axe already knows how to QAC consistently and uses it quite often in both friendlies and tournament play. He was in my pool at FC, so I know this quite well lol.

He knows how to do it because he played a bit of brawl in the past. Other than that, he plays pure melee pika. He would benefit a lot from breversing Thunder to create Thunder Wall to edgeguard, as well as QAC-dashing (WDing out of QAC). Still, he's amazing.

I've been trying to convince him to play Toon Link because his Young Link is god-like in melee. He used it against HBox and just bairly lost.

 

[Hylian]

I know some crazy link tricks that others haven't done or probably even thought of lol. I just got my camera charger, so I'll upload some matches soon. I'll just say that AGT downwards + Instant throwing = O.O

 

[`dazrin]

AGT downwards meaning AGTing your momentum upward and throwing a bomb downwards? Or actually AGTing your momentum downwards AND tossing downwards?

 

[Hylian]

AGT downwards meaning AGTing your momentum upward and throwing a bomb downwards? Or actually AGTing your momentum downwards AND tossing downwards?

AGT your momentum downwards, and then instant throwing the bomb right after. Good luck edgeguarding link LOL. You will see when I upload videos, I have lots of tricks .

 

[JCaesar]

I look forward to stealing them

I don't really put any effort into Link and he already *****. I can't wait to have tricks.

 

[PGH Carroll]

Money match my Ike you bum

 

[9Kplus1]

Ike sucks

 

[PGH Carroll]

IKE will take your mother on an expensive steak dinner.
**** HER
and never call her again.

 

[JCaesar]

I will gladly mm any Ike.

 

[Juushichi]

IKE will take your mother on an expensive steak dinner.
**** HER
and never call her again.

OFIGKTA, maybe.

 

[DrinkingFood]

IRSTLTOATAWUN

Spoiler

I'm really starting to lose track of all these acronyms we use now

 

[crush]

odd future ike gang kill them all

 

[Dingding123]

My 2c on Ike:

Really good against anyone who can't go toe-to-toe with him in melee range combat (pika, ness, lucas; pretty much all the pipsqueaks). Not OP, but eats tiny characters for breakfast. They don't have many realistic options against him and his 4-footer. Then again, they're pretty bad against anyone with a movepool based around good range (see: Marth). Ike's weaknesses are him not having a projectile or a 'get away from me' move for when someone pins him down; outside of his jab and his grab every move he has takes a little time to throw out. He's got more mobility and a better recovery, sure. But both are pretty linear and straightforward overall, and he can definitely still be edgeguarded. He just has more options now, both onstage and offstage, thanks to his new handy dandy sideB. Not too many (again, IMO), but enough to get the job done.

He's Ike how he should be in a Melee environment. I like that. Rather than not liking how he stomps some characters, however, I dislike the characters that he stomps. Little guys need more options against people with long melee range. I've no idea what, though; I'm not sure that better projectiles is the answer, but they do need something. Perhaps something new and unique, like a way to dodge attacks while keeping mobile. Idk. But yeah. Something.

 

[GP&B]

Ness just needs PK Fire to activate off touching a surface and then we'll have the best and lamest character in all of PM.

 

[MaxThunder]

Ness just needs PK Fire to activate off touching a surface and then we'll have the best and lamest character in all of PM.

I would burn everything... EEEVEEERYYYYTHIIIIIGN!!! MUUUUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

 

[DrinkingFood]

I've actually been thinking that ness could use a B-activated PK fire. in other words, stop it and make it burn once out by pressing B (allowing you to control the length) or let it hit the opponent or die out.
Of course to compensate for the massive amount of broken stage control this could provide he might do to have slight additional startup or endlag on the move... or PMBR could just give it to ness and let him actually be good.

 

[GP&B]

A UAir that kills at 100% and better tilts (Yoyo FTilt mirite?) would be a start. UAir can kill near the top fairly well, but Ness doesn't have the benefit of getting high into the air quickly like Fox does.

This is all just wishful thinking though. I'm still going to pick up Ness and try and work him.

 

[ph00tbag]

I really think that PK fire activating on shields is a huge buff for Ness, as well as DJC being a mix-up now as opposed to one or the other (shouts to being able to cover your double jump with an aerial).

I've always been a fan of ftilt being a directable yo-yo attack, though. I kinda wish the yo-yo glitch could be put back in.

 

[NeoZ]

I will gladly mm any Ike.

From what I saw of you playing on stream the other day, it seemed you knew the match-up well, and with multiple characters.
More people should try this before calling for nerfs.

 

[DoH]

I feel like Charizard needs to be heavier. He's like 200 pounds, cannonically

 

[kaizo13]

I second Zard being a bit heavier....he could use it

and Ness is a beast...i don't understand why people still put him at the bottom of lists

 

[DrinkingFood]

Hardly anything is canon in smash except the character's names, looks, and a couple moves. Canonization is not PMBR's goal, they do it only when it's convenient (such as DK needing a new dash attack and getting it from DKC) and sonic needing an improved dsmash (getting the breakdance).

 

[Revven]

I feel like Charizard needs to be heavier. He's like 200 pounds, cannonically

Charizard is already 110 weight, just below DDD (112) and DK (114).

 

[cannedbread]

i think alot of people underestimate what a good ness/lucas player can do

also WTF are their dtilts so much slower? was there any reason to remove this at all?

 

[GP&B]

I was curious about that too.

 

[metroid1117]

I will gladly mm any Ike.

You're still not going to The Big House 2, right? I would've mm'd your ROB and Link =/.

also WTF are their dtilts so much slower? was there any reason to remove this at all?

I think I read somewhere that it's so they have options out of crouch canceling; they're still fast, but the power on both moves were increased, allowing them to profit more from landing it. I'm not sure how Lucas' worked in vBrawl, but Ness' Melee DTilt was pathetic in knockback and just acted like a jab with no real profit.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

I second Zard being a bit heavier....he could use it

and Ness is a beast...i don't understand why people still put him at the bottom of lists

He isn't a beast, but he definitely isn't garbage. The problem is most people I've seen play Ness play him too offensive, which only gets you killed. You have to wait for your openings for aerials and PK Fire, though I will say that PKT2 is beast if your opponent is far enough away you can use it on the stage without getting hit in the process.

 

[Revven]

i think alot of people underestimate what a good ness/lucas player can do

also WTF are their dtilts so much slower? was there any reason to remove this at all?

I was curious about that too.

To make them more useful than just silly damage builders that don't lead to any combos. If you pay attention to the angle they send the foe at, you can follow up easily with a grab or some other move that then leads into something else, something their Dtilts did not lead to before because of their KB/DMG.

Also for Ness specifically it gives him an option out of a CC which he didn't have before.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

So i am getting on this ike is stupid train. Why are his tilts so fast and safe but hit so hard? Why do so many of his moves hit behind him, why is he so safe on shield with almost everything, why is he nearly as strong as bowser but much faster and safer, why does his fsmash have relatively low start up and end lag for how strong and disjointed it is, why can he wall jump out of qd?

I agree with what spam arrows has said, he needs both buffs and nerfs b/c his character build is poor.

 

[ELI-mination]

Will someone please knock that train off it's tracks and have it go tumbling into a ravine leaving no survivors

 

[PGH Carroll]

You cant stop the IKE train.
NO ONE CAN

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

Is it b/c the ike train rides on the rails of truth

 

[GP&B]

More like the rails of an underdeveloped metagame mirite?

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I really do want answers to my questions i asked two posts ago. If you compare his moves to other heavy hitters they just dont make sense, why does he have less lag when he hits shields? That mechanic might not even be that bad for characters that lack range, but it just doesnt make sense for someone with huge range who should have to space to be safe, instead he is safe even with bad spacing b/c he can jab before you can do anything oos

 

[metroid1117]

I really do want answers to my questions i asked two posts ago. If you compare his moves to other heavy hitters they just dont make sense, why does he have less lag when he hits shields? That mechanic might not even be that bad for characters that lack range, but it just doesnt make sense for someone with huge range who should have to space to be safe, instead he is safe even with bad spacing b/c he can jab before you can do anything oos

Jab isn't safe on shield. His sword attacks, however, are a different story. As explained by Magus' post in this thread:

50% less, in fact. If you don't mind me stepping in, I took a look at PM Ike.

All of Ike's sword attacks have a 50% modifier for hitlag. To clarify...

Lets say, under normal conditions, Ike(Attacker) hits your(Defender) shield with Ftilt.

Attacker goes into Hitlag(the state where the character is momentarily frozen in place), lets say its 8 frames long. Defender goes into shield Hitlag(same thing, except frozen in his shield), which is also 8 frames. I.E. Hitlag is the same duration as Shield hitlag.

After this...

Attacker moves on to finish the rest of the attack animation, the recovery.
Defender has an additional amount of shield stun(usually less frames than the shield hitlag), then can act out of shield.

With THAT out of the way...

Ike has a 50% modifier on the Hitlag for his sword attacks, which essentially halves those attack's Hitlag frames, both on hit and on shield.

From the above example, Ike would have 4 frames of hitlag, while the Defender would still have 8. And there's your frame advantage. The rest of the stuff that happens after is unaffected.

Also, the only exception is his Fair, which has a 75% modifier, which would give it 6 frames of hitlag...so its not ALL bad!

tl;dr - Ike's sword attacks have a special property on shields that makes them safer. Considering that he has great range and power (which creates more shield stun), I think this is unnecessary and should be taken out.

By the way, if you read through the thread where Kirk's post comes from, you'll find that IL is very annoyed with Ike's current state and actually brought up banning him from a tournament this weekend.

Will someone please knock that train off it's tracks and have it go tumbling into a ravine leaving no survivors

Eli you have to admit, having an UTilt and DTilt with only 11 frames of lag (faster than Falco/Fox's UTilt lag) is pretty excessive.

EDIT: My bad NAGACE. I originally quoted your first post, where you didn't mention the mechanic's existence.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

I am aware of the modifier i am asking why he has it

 

[Revven]

I am aware of the modifier i am asking why he has it

Everyone has the modifier, it's not just exclusive to Ike, they just have different levels of hitlag compared to him. Not everyone has .5 hitlag on nearly every move though.

 

[GP&B]

Would definitely agree with higher endlag on the tilts. Beyond that though, no comment.