Project M Social Thread

[TheReflexWonder]

mycatgoesmow: free stage control everywhere forever, seems balanced to me

Though I don't think it's -that- good, the Melee Bowser main in me thought that was pretty funny.

its not like no one plays this game seriously and the easy2play characters always dominate early...

Wesker in UMVC3

I...don't think I agree with this in relation to Wesker.

 

[leffen]

How is he not? He was considered to be THE best by most and won ALL THE TIME, and now he is considered to be top 10 at best and is never on top players teams.

He is also extremely easy to play

 

[TheReflexWonder]

How is he not? He was considered to be THE best by most and won ALL THE TIME, and now he is considered to be top 10 at best and is never on top players teams.

He is also extremely easy to play

A lot of characters in that game are really easy to play, though, and it's not like he's not still a great character, regardless.

 

[leffen]

and those easy2play character were ALSO overrated in the beginning, while characters like Viper/Vergil(yes)/Zero were forgotten.

and yes, he is a good character still, but the fact is that he was OVERRATED, just like Ike is.

 

[Deleted member]

it's not about who's overrated, it's about who wins. vro did well and got second regardless of how good or not good ike is. i can understand having subjective interpretations based on your observations but even i'm not arrogant enough to flat out deny reality.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

No, a vast majority of the game is easy to play...

 

[ph00tbag]

Well, the dev team also needs to be able to have the foresight to distinguish solid results based on a character's inherent strengths, and results that don't necessarily have staying power. Vro's placement with Ike is certainly commendable, but the likelihood of more players encountering the same success in the context of a devoted playerbase is still not considered very high. That's more important than considering the outliers.

 

[leffen]

it's not about who's overrated, it's about who wins. vro did well and got second regardless of how good or not good ike is. i can understand having subjective interpretations based on your observations but even i'm not arrogant enough to flat out deny reality.

uh, whats do you mean with this post exactly? >_>

yes, vro got second in the first big tournament in a game no one takes seriously yet. im not denying that, but that doesnt mean that doesnt change **** about how good Ike is really.


@Reflex: Not really... while many characters are easy to play on their own, most characters require immense amounts of lab work to be fit for top level play in Marvel.
Look at Firebrand, Pheonix, Viper, Zero for characters that are "hard2play". Its not about the fact that they have hard EXECUTION (even though Viper/Zero really really do have 10x the limit wesker has) its the fact that you have to learn a very specific team and do immense work for it to be use able at top level.

Wesker on the other hand, can be fit in any position of a team, is useful for every team, is extremely easy to play and gains almost nothing from "top level" combos compared to ABCS. All his incoming mixups are super easy to learn, all his mixups with assists are easy to learn (basic left right mixup). He has no useful TAC, all his Xfactor combos are the same, is Neutral game is extremely easy and doesnt really vary against different characters.

Please think about it for a second before you post, will you?

 

[Deleted member]

yes, vro got second in the first big tournament in a game no one takes seriously yet. im not denying that, but that doesnt mean that doesnt change **** about how good Ike is really.

apparently it was serious enough for them to put money on it?

i think ike sucks, but it doesn't matter what i think because the character placed well. don't take that accomplishment away from him, he earned it through talent and playing the game better than his opponents.

 

[Archangel]

Personally I think Ike's worst matchups are Marth and Link.

I'm seeing Leffen vs Vro, Metroid, Eli...etc in the not so far away future.

 

[leffen]

There is money in SFXT too, stupid umbreon.

You simply cannot take away the fact that almost no one seriously practices P:M, and therefor the characters with simple, easy to master characters will have a severe advantage compared to a scene like SC2, where everything is mastered no matter the time required.

"i think ike sucks, but it doesn't matter what i think because the character placed well. "

lol wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut.
how is that even relevant? Im not trying to make seem like Vros placement wasnt "earned" or whatever, im just saying that it means very little about Ike's placement in the tier list.


also i'd **** Vro for freeeeeee. 500 dollar mm @apex biatch?

 

[ph00tbag]

"Stupid Umbreon" is the most hilariously inoffensive insult I've ever seen thrown around the boards.

 

[ELI-mination]

hey there leffen, you sound pretty cocky
I'll go to apex if you agree to mm me for $500

 

[leffen]

"Stupid Umbreon" is the most hilariously inoffensive insult I've ever seen thrown around the boards.

lol, I hope you don't think that insult was meant to be "serious" or "offensive" lmao

 

[ph00tbag]

lol, I hope you don't think that insult was meant to be "serious" or "offensive" lmao

Well, if the intent was to make me spit out my beer from laughing too hard, then you did a good job.

 

[crush]

leffen *****.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Well, if the intent was to make me spit out my beer from laughing too hard, then you did a good job.

Downplayed, restrained, and subtle humour is the hallmark of a deliberately placed understatement used, typically for satirical effect, in place of what is normally expected to be strongly impacting diction. The fact that the insult is so subdued makes it stand out in its context.

Rhetoric.

 

[leffen]

tier list:

1. Zelda/Sheik :together they're br0kennnnnnnn (dev power!)

2. (split)
-Fox
-Peach(****loadsofbuffs)
-TL
-DK (strong bad is a dev, go ****ing figure)
-Lucario(only for ppl with brawl/sf skill, otherwise low tier)

3. (split)
-Falco (combo game heavily nerfed, many of his matchups got much worse)
-Marth
-Lucas
-Jigglypuff



-
lots of random characters
-


-
charizard
ness

 

[Strong Badam]

Yeah, I do well with DK because I buffed him a ton, not due to my own skill or anything. Not to mention the fact that DK has probably the most conservative buffs out of any Melee mid/low tier.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I have to agree with leffen's analogies here.

Easy to pick character usually stand much more than other characters on the start of a game's metagame.

Wesker is pretty good example, he has health, flexibility, power and is pretty simple to use. Nowadays he's not that much popular, albeit still being a very good character.

Some other characters with developed technology such as vergil and zero, require a lot more execution and training but are dominating the scene.

Wesker is still great, but was rather overrated, today people now how to deal with his things. His simplicity is also a bad point for him in some situations, with matchups like morrigan being quite hard for him to get flowing.

I think that Ike will go through the same path, the character that isn't quite the best, with exploitable weaknesses, but can still wreck you if you aren't cautious enough.

Same goes for the noticeable success bowser had, but still is a different case.

 

[Archangel]

Though I think Ike needs a combo of buffs and nerfs I don't think they should be done right away. That would be bad. Waiting years would also be bad in the event the complaining people turn out to be right about Ike...he'll have developed a Meta knight stigma...and that's horrible for a brawl modded game.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I have to agree with leffen's analogies here.

Easy to pick character usually stand much more than other characters on the start of a game's metagame.

And as a potential counter to that, Snake in brawl was seen as an immediate threat right away, I believe. Although, it might simple have been because Snake had three really good ground abilities going for him. Ftilt, Utilt, and Dthrow. Maybe at the time everyone was so bad or new to the game that it took a few months to get use to it. After that, I assume his more complicated item play got a lot of attention and kept him going from then on.

 

[drsusredfish]

you've probably been asked this alot but, Umbreon, do you have any recorded matches of you exploiting Ikes weaknesses consistantly? I just want to see how you do it. I'm not trying to dis credit your thoughts just curious to see how easy it is for you.

the recent FC supposedly shows ikes weakness but looking at vros other matches makes it look like he choked in the finals so its hard to tell.

 

[Archangel]

you've probably been asked this alot but, Umbreon, do you have any recorded matches of you exploiting Ikes weaknesses consistantly? I just want to see how you do it. I'm not trying to dis credit your thoughts just curious to see how easy it is for you.

the recent FC supposedly shows ikes weakness but looking at vros other matches makes it look like he choked in the finals so its hard to tell.

Well yeah, It did look like he made alot of very strange choices especially when it comes to side-b'ing back to the stage. If you play smart and play patient Ike vs Puff is worse than Marth vs Puff....for puff.

 

[leffen]

Yeah, I do well with DK because I buffed him a ton, not due to my own skill or anything. Not to mention the fact that DK has probably the most conservative buffs out of any Melee mid/low tier.

No, I never said your success had anything to do with DKs buffs

However, hes one of the few low tiers that has actually gotten a fix to all his major problems, unlike Ganon/Bowser

also your DK in P:M is bad, any top player could play him for 10 minutes and perform better, just like your melee DK. no offense, but you dont use 10% of his potential.


@Xeylode:
Snake is an awful example for you lol
Snake was often considered to be better than MK in the beginning, and then he was 2nd. Now hes 5th, and players like Ally think he should fall even more iirc.
Snake isnt even that "simple" to play but its more that he requires exp to fight against (not failing juggles really ***** him)

A better example is D3/GaW who were 3rd/4th in brawl, and they're now 12th/15th...
both super simple characters, very much like Ike.

 

[Strong Badam]

teach me the ways of DK, leffen

 

[leffen]

play him like marth

not like some mongo dongo bongo drummer on drugs like you do

you can always use back air now, use dat ****
also spam pivot grab

edit: as for you, I watched one match and cried my eyes out

stop tech rolling away 103810381083 times in a row
stop spamming rolls out of shield like a 5 year old playing brawl
stop falling down with forward air hoping that your opponent wont realize its faster now
stop thinking dk punch beats everything, esp ganons bair

 

[cannedbread]

 

[Archangel]

play him like marth

not like some mongo dongo bongo drummer on drugs like you do

you can always use back air now, use dat ****
also spam pivot grab

edit: as for you, I watched one match and cried my eyes out

stop tech rolling away 103810381083 times in a row
stop spamming rolls out of shield like a 5 year old playing brawl
stop falling down with forward air hoping that your opponent wont realize its faster now
stop thinking dk punch beats everything, esp ganons bair

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

Leeet me fix that for ya Archangel. :3

Also, maybe I'm late to the party cause I haven't read back, but is the build for P:M being use at FC Legacy significantly faster than the released 2.1 demo? Or am I just seeing things?

 

[kaizo13]

2.1 was used at FC...just faster players

 

[Kaye Cruiser]

I don't see how the players could cause the animations to seem decently sped up, but okay. If you say so. *shrugs* Not like I know much. XD;

 

[DMG]

Im pretty sure stuff was at the same pace. I've seem stream/video of P:M accidentally sped up due to recording, and let me tell you THAT looks very janky and concerning lool.

 

[Kati]

It was just the stream from what I could tell. Occasionally playing at something like 1.5x the speed.

 

[DMG]

Hmm... I thought the stream was playing it fine. The regular one right, not the Omnigamer one? I didn't have the time to watch it all but I didn't notice it lagging too bad or going too fast.

Either way yeah if you compared it to fully recorded matches that were too fast, you'd see a notably difference. When you have Axe flying around with Pika Fox players Kage doing work etc may look super fast but should have been reg 2.1 pace.

 

[Divinokage]

Leffen, you have no idea what you are talking about, Vro is amazing. I think I know the Ike matchup but I got outplayed because Ike can combo like crazy. lol. Also in P:M most characters die even quicker than in Melee which is also why Ike can surpass pretty much every character in that field.

You lost to me last P:M tournament as well and Vro beat me. I wouldn't trashtalk players that may be better than you.

 

[leffen]

LOL, that was soooooooooo long ago and in a COMPLETELY different version (also the first time I played P:M)


also Ike does hard counter ganon tbh

 

[leelue]

Ike vs ganon is super whack
Real talk

 

[DMG]

Grab Ike, take him to the Dog Pound, show him how to play the GAME!

 

[leelue]

At least sonic vs ike isn't a nightmare...