Project M Social Thread

[KingBlaze777]

The important thing here is that it IS a new game for a lot of people and there's unexplored territory all around P:M's roster, Ike for some reason got to be the first to be extensively experimented with by many players. Keep in mind that the PMBR won't drop the next version until enough time (in their eyes) has passed to evaluate the progress of the meta-game by then and improve on that.

On a more personal note: Waiting for Pit to "be completed" won't do you any good, in my honest opinion because the changes Pit might receive may not be the ones that you wanted or even thought of. I started maining Ness in P:M (I had never used him in SSB, Melee or Bawrl) and I find him to be quite efficient and fun, he also happens to have many flaws and I don't think that he'll receive any changes other than the ones he's already had (though I wish that PKT2 had awesome priority as it's a terribad recovery with NEGATIVE priority), but if I went to a tourney, I'd go Ness all the way (Tink for only one MU and Mario for the lulz)

 

[Archangel]

i play a decent pit....u shouldn't really be looking for vertical K.O's. look for gimps, offstage chases with side-b, sweetspot bair/fair, dash attacks and d-throws are good combo starters. So most of your kills are going to be off the side and based on your edge guarding game.

his current upsmash is fine the way it is, you can side-b>dair>upsmash juggle spacies at lower %'s and still kills later on. not a bad move at all

I'm not worried about spacies at all actually or any FF'er for that matter because they are pretty easy to work your magic on. It's a matter of reliably setting up kills on the other characters when it's needed most.

@KingBlaze777 When I say waiting I don't mean not playing him. I play pit at least 20 minutes worth per day and i'm always looking to advance in some way with him or get a little better. Honestly Ike's one of the reasons why I stopped playing pit. The better one of my smashbros got with Ike the less I played him with pit and since he started using Ike once he realized how silly he was he just wouldn't quit playing him so I slowly started moving away form Pit. Not that I can't and don't win vs him the majority of the time in that MU but the times I do lose look alot like Axe vs Vro game 1. It's the most annoying way to lose so I started playing more reliable kill characters vs Ike so I'll go Fox/Falco/Wolf/Sheik/Marth or Ike now. Again it's not a salt thing or a "I have trouble with someone so this character is broken" thing either. I just simply don't like getting someone to high % and not being able to kill them I delt with that enough as a Marth in melee I don't want to do it again.

Speaking of Marth...that's another thing that makes me LOL about Ike. I remember me and some other marth's declared War on this thread because Marth wasn't getting any buffs at all and for all these major reasons he would need them...etc...etc. After all this **** that everyone especially Devs gave us...out of the vagina of project M comes this Ike guy....it's like...really?

 

[metroid1117]

First off, I'm happy that Vro did an excellent job representing Ike at FC, even if it sounds like he sort of choked in GF against Hungrybox. I was almost positive that Vro would take the tournament after hearing how he sent Hungrybox to Loser's Bracket, but excellent job to him all the same.

However, I'd again like to point out that Vro still does not show what Ike is fully capable of - in addition to the previously-mentioned QD turnaround tricks, Vro doesn't really utilize wavedashing out of QD quite like Eli does (Eli's Ike is incredibly fluid in terms of movement, by the way) nor utilize reverse BAirs, which I have been finding to be more and more useful. I strongly think that Ike's metagame still has some ways to go before it stagnates, Ike just seems to have a lot of potential that people (including me) are not fully tapping into.

That being said, I honestly hope that the cool-down on Ike's DTilt and UTilt is increased. According to Monk's hitbox thread, both only have 11 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 18 and IASA starts on frame 29 for DTilt and hitbox ends on frame 24 and IASA starts on frame 35 for UTilt) - that's even faster than Sheik's FTilt, which has 17 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 10 and IASA starts on frame 27), and Fox/Falco's UTilt, which has 12 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 11 and IASA starts on frame 23). The above-mentioned moves have considerably less start-up time than Ike's tilts (Ike's UTilt starts on frame 9 and DTilt starts on frame 16 while both Sheik's FTilt and Falco's UTilt start on frame 5), but in my opinion, Ike's range and follow-ups from these moves warrant them to be nerfed slightly.

On a final note, I'm registered for Project: M singles at The Big House 2. I think Vro is going, so I hope that there will be at least two Ikes that place in the top 5 .

 

[foshio]

Honestly it really REALLY sounds like you're saying, I couldn't adjust to a character that my friend plays. Nerf character!
And the axe game, axe choked the last lives, he played really stupidly. By the third game he became rattled because of it and got owned. Vro is really good and showed what PRACTICE in the actual game (unlike almost all of the other players) can do. Big surprise the guy that practiced the most with a character that no one knows how to fight did well. Never would've thought. Also notice when Hbox found out he could combo Ike like Gannon the game was over. Yeah Ike is so over powered... until he gets completely figured out and owned within two days of exposure to Hbox...

 

[-Chad-]

its not really surprising that a character that has great aerial mobility combined with multiple jumps could actually keep up with ike while comboing him and leads to much easier edgeguards. not many chars can do that

 

[Hylian]

My friends think links boomerang needs to be nerfed >_>. I am biased towards link but I never see links do well anywhere lol so please tell me my character isn't broken and I'm just awesome.

 

[Archangel]

First off, I'm happy that Vro did an excellent job representing Ike at FC, even if it sounds like he sort of choked in GF against Hungrybox. I was almost positive that Vro would take the tournament after hearing how he sent Hungrybox to Loser's Bracket, but excellent job to him all the same.

However, I'd again like to point out that Vro still does not show what Ike is fully capable of - in addition to the previously-mentioned QD turnaround tricks, Vro doesn't really utilize wavedashing out of QD quite like Eli does (Eli's Ike is incredibly fluid in terms of movement, by the way) nor utilize reverse BAirs, which I have been finding to be more and more useful. I strongly think that Ike's metagame still has some ways to go before it stagnates, Ike just seems to have a lot of potential that people (including me) are not fully tapping into.

That being said, I honestly hope that the cool-down on Ike's DTilt and UTilt is increased. According to Monk's hitbox thread, both only have 11 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 18 and IASA starts on frame 29 for DTilt and hitbox ends on frame 24 and IASA starts on frame 35 for UTilt) - that's even faster than Sheik's FTilt, which has 17 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 10 and IASA starts on frame 27), and Fox/Falco's UTilt, which has 12 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 11 and IASA starts on frame 23). The above-mentioned moves have considerably less start-up time than Ike's tilts (Ike's UTilt starts on frame 9 and DTilt starts on frame 16 while both Sheik's FTilt and Falco's UTilt start on frame 5), but in my opinion, Ike's range and follow-ups from these moves warrant them to be nerfed slightly.

On a final note, I'm registered for Project: M singles at The Big House 2. I think Vro is going, so I hope that there will be at least two Ikes that place in the top 5 .

Finally, someone making sense...I love you metroid. Yes homo.

Honestly it really REALLY sounds like you're saying, I couldn't adjust to a character that my friend plays. Nerf character!
And the axe game, axe choked the last lives, he played really stupidly. By the third game he became rattled because of it and got owned. Vro is really good and showed what PRACTICE in the actual game (unlike almost all of the other players) can do. Big surprise the guy that practiced the most with a character that no one knows how to fight did well. Never would've thought. Also notice when Hbox found out he could combo Ike like Gannon the game was over. Yeah Ike is so over powered... until he gets completely figured out and owned within two days of exposure to Hbox...

why did you make that statement at the beginning when I already said that wasn't the case? Are you that determined to be both predictable and incorrect?..fine.

Axe vs Vro game one is 4hour 19minutes and 44seconds in.
http://www.twitch.tv/vgbootcamp/b/328597760
judge for yourself. I can say that the last stop the Uair OoS was suppose to be a Usmash and the last quick attack on stage was aimed at the ledge but Pikachu is hard to control and that Fsmash is unforgiving.

I know that Axe may not have concentrated 100% on this game he's played it a great deal and so have all who made it to top 10. all of them may not have played against a very good ike but they've seen him before at least...I agree about game 3 though he was pretty much afraid of Ike, The jank had just got to him mentally by then.


To say Ike was figured out and owned is in 2 days makes little sense considering Vro isn't the best Ike, Made classic mistakes vs Puff especially Hbox's puff, and lastly...It's not like Vro has had puff practice on a daily basis himself. Ike gets combo'd like ganon if you chose not to escape it safely and jump side-b'ing is not a safe escape. Juan didn't really need to figure him out so much as he needed to react to very common recovery decisions that he's seen his whole smash career. Vro is a good player but overall not on the same skill level as Hbox. Take a look at his melee placing compared to his PM placing and you'll see what I mean. Hbox's PM and Melee placing sort of show where he's at as a player. With that considered...he did get 2-0'd in their first encounter so they are 1 and 1 in sets at the end of the day.

 

[SpiderMad]

If Ike gets nerfed: nerf his power, not his speed please.

 

[Archangel]

only the power of some things need changing really or the hitbox needs to be looked at again. Looking at Ike's hitbox/frame data makes me grin .

Besides I don't think Ike is OP'd I simply think his strengths might be a bit too enhanced which is why I said a few pages back he was over done and not over powered. he's got some massive shortcomings that I believe should actually be buffed eventually.

I can't believe I got sucked into the arguement of Ike being OP'd...makes me mad at myself

so....final note on this argument.

The general Idea is that Ike is like melee's Sheik early in melee's history. The idea is that in time people will figure out ways to beat Ike because people figured out how to do it with Sheik. The problem with this train of thought is it derails when you realize Sheik was nerfed in project M because she nullified a great deal of the cast's viability...or did everyone forget that somehow? The same way they forgot Sheik is still S-tier and only truly beaten out by 3 characters of 26 in melee. If that's the future of Ike it's a pretty good one.

If it's decided in the end not to rework Ike at all I would accept it mainly because I'd have no choice. However if this is the course of action(or lack of action) taken then I would suggest you give sheik back her melee NTSC moves and her tether side-B because by "Ike has weaknesses" logic all of those changes were pointless.

 

[shanus]

As a note, all of the PMBR reads this thread, and we are noting your feedback. I wanted to copy paste a post I did from another thread:

As a note, the PM dev team appreciates everyones feedback and it's not going unheard. Also stay tuned for some cool news updates in the near future. Anyways, keep the feedback coming.

I do have to say that I think PM as a whole needs a lot of metagame maturing before people act too hastily. A classic example of this is we barely saw a lot of new character representation, and frankly, a lot of people playing unfamiliar matchups and immediately deeming them unfair. This isn't to say there aren't things wrong with current balance (we aren't perfect haha), but I also just want to caveat how early we are in the games lifecycle.

 

[Life]

The reason Sheik got nerfed in PM is because her chaingrab literally shut down a pretty significant portion of the cast. Does Ike have anything like that? Doubt it.

 

[JCaesar]

I hope my commentary wasn't too boring for y'all. I was trying to keep things informative but I suck at the play-by-play stuff. I'm working on it though.

There's a list in smashmods that has all the different values for weight, air speed, etc. and Ike was several spots higher than Link (The higher the spot on the list, the heavier the character is) Link's weight would fit Ike more than it fits Link. Just think about it, Link carries infinite bombs, infinite arrows, a clawshot, a sword and a shield, yet he's a mid-heavy weight character. Meanwhile, Ike just carries a zweihander with one hand and he's almost as heavy as Bowser, he can move extremely fast for a character his weight with QD.

A character with range that can be compared to Marth's (maybe even larger than Marth's), strength comparable to Ganon's and a move that gives him a mobility boost that can be JC'd, should NOT be almost as heavy as Bowser.

"almost as heavy as Bowser"? He's closer in weight to Mario than Bowser.

Minor note, the round robin idea kinda killed GF hype imo.

Whose idea was it to ditch custom soundtracks during day 3? It made it harder for viewers to notice they weren't playing Brawl.

These were insisted on by the Kishes (much like Pirate Ship being legal). As much as I agree with you guys, it was their tournament, and they did an amazing job overall. This was easily the biggest and hypest Project M tournament so far and did a LOT for Project M awareness, so they deserve our thanks and appreciation more than anything.

A lot of people complained about the songs, actually.

JC has gotta learn that some music doesn't need guitars.

I couldn't see the stream chat while I was on commentary, but when I do my personal streams, I get far more compliments than complaints about the music, and I get a LOT of messages on youtube asking for it. Not to mention it's my Wii so I'm gonna use the music I like.

dealwithit.gif

First off, I'm happy that Vro did an excellent job representing Ike at FC, even if it sounds like he sort of choked in GF against Hungrybox. I was almost positive that Vro would take the tournament after hearing how he sent Hungrybox to Loser's Bracket, but excellent job to him all the same.

However, I'd again like to point out that Vro still does not show what Ike is fully capable of - in addition to the previously-mentioned QD turnaround tricks, Vro doesn't really utilize wavedashing out of QD quite like Eli does (Eli's Ike is incredibly fluid in terms of movement, by the way) nor utilize reverse BAirs, which I have been finding to be more and more useful. I strongly think that Ike's metagame still has some ways to go before it stagnates, Ike just seems to have a lot of potential that people (including me) are not fully tapping into.

That being said, I honestly hope that the cool-down on Ike's DTilt and UTilt is increased. According to Monk's hitbox thread, both only have 11 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 18 and IASA starts on frame 29 for DTilt and hitbox ends on frame 24 and IASA starts on frame 35 for UTilt) - that's even faster than Sheik's FTilt, which has 17 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 10 and IASA starts on frame 27), and Fox/Falco's UTilt, which has 12 frames of lag (hitbox ends on frame 11 and IASA starts on frame 23). The above-mentioned moves have considerably less start-up time than Ike's tilts (Ike's UTilt starts on frame 9 and DTilt starts on frame 16 while both Sheik's FTilt and Falco's UTilt start on frame 5), but in my opinion, Ike's range and follow-ups from these moves warrant them to be nerfed slightly.

On a final note, I'm registered for Project: M singles at The Big House 2. I think Vro is going, so I hope that there will be at least two Ikes that place in the top 5 .

Thanks for the excellent and well thought-out feedback on this touchy subject.

I'm trying to go to TBH2 as well. I got several friendlies with Vro and played him in tourney, and I'd really like to play you too.

My friends think links boomerang needs to be nerfed >_>. I am biased towards link but I never see links do well anywhere lol so please tell me my character isn't broken and I'm just awesome.

He's underplayed, but I think Link is really really good myself. I use him to cover the bad matchups of my mains (ROB and Mario). I don't even particularly like playing him anymore because he feels like a crutch, but he wins so many of my personal bad matchups that I can't ignore him.

With that considered...he did get 2-0'd in their first encounter so they are 1 and 1 in sets at the end of the day.

Well we were doing continuous sets, so technically HBox won the "set."

 

[Spoon~]

Dang, i need to go to some Big House again

 

[Life]

On an unrelated note, looks like Pit has a pretty substantial dthrow chaingrab against space animals, dunno if this was known or intentional or can be DI'd out of or what.

Looked like nobody had noticed yet and Smashmods won't let me sign up so I thought I'd mention it here.

 

[McNinja]

On an unrelated note, looks like Pit has a pretty substantial dthrow chaingrab against space animals, dunno if this was known or intentional or can be DI'd out of or what.

Looked like nobody had noticed yet and Smashmods won't let me sign up so I thought I'd mention it here.

Yeah it's a legit chaingrab on fast fallers. Pretty sure it goes on untill over 50% at least on spacies.

 

[DMG]

jcaesar: Yeah I'm happy in the end, the tournament was fine and round robin isn't entirely bad, it just seemed bad for P:M because of Vro and Hungrybox sweeping everyone and we knew GF's wasn't gonna be something hype like Kage vs Axe etc.

 

[KingBlaze777]

Melee's Sheik early in melee's history. The idea is that in time people will figure out ways to beat Ike because people figured out how to do it with Sheik. The problem with this train of thought is it derails when you realize Sheik was nerfed in project M because she nullified a great deal of the cast's viability...or did everyone forget that somehow? The same way they forgot Sheik is still S-tier and only truly beaten out by 3 characters of 26 in melee. If that's the future of Ike it's a pretty good one.

If it's decided in the end not to rework Ike at all I would accept it mainly because I'd have no choice. However if this is the course of action(or lack of action) taken then I would suggest you give sheik back her melee NTSC moves and her tether side-B because by "Ike has weaknesses" logic all of those changes were pointless.

So we can't have a Bawrl newcomer join the Top tier? Is it set in stone that Fox, Falco, Sheik and Puff CAN'T be joined by or knocked out of the Top tier by some new character in P:M? When the PMBR said viable, they didn't mean good enough to be used but not good enough to beat Top tiers. I assume that they meant generally good, whether they have the potential to beat current Top tiers or not.

Ike has weaknesses (they are solid and exploitable weaknesses), Sheik's NTSC CG did not and neither do tethers have their regular weakness in P:M

You sound very salty for some reason Just trolling.

 

[Snaps]

Are there any plans for PAL project:M?

 

[shanus]

This reminds of one other thing I want to bring up. People are almost punishing Vro's achievements for the sake that he used a new character. However, everyone out there is forgeting that he is being rewarded for his experience in PM as compared to his competitors. Most other players there who were melee vets had little to no experience with PM beforehand. It's only fair that Vro should have a competitive advantage from better matchup experience.

 

[DMG]

Personally, balance wise no I wouldn't want another spacie, another "old" shiek, another jiggs. Of course it's opinionated, but why not strive to make most characters more like Falcon or Mario?

For a character to honestly be as good as top tiers in Melee (not compete with, but be just as good), they have to be a bit ridiculous. If you're honestly striving for balance, why work with a ridiculous baseline? Balancing characters to be able to DEAL with top tier, instead of purposefully molding them to be top tier, that's the difference I think. And doing that approach doesn't mean leaving top tier alone either: Why should we be satisfied with Fox as the best character in the game? Ya know?

 

[MaxThunder]

Are there any plans for PAL project:M?

there are plans for that, yes... however they are too busy with just making the game to do that for the moment... but it will be ported after they're finished...

 

[Yomi-no-Kuni]

I think Ike will not be as imba as he is made out to be right now.
His recovery isn't the best out there, his UpB sweetspot is easily edgeguarded (which noone at the tourney managed to do... hint: wait until he shoots up himself (not the sword) then ftilt/smash/what ever you feel like) and his forwardB is slower than fox/falco and needs charging. this will be exploited in the future.
And like ganon his range and quickness is something that is hard to deal with and that needs to be accustomed to. ForwardB stuff will become more predictable, and his fair walls will better dealt with aswell.
I believe he'll always do a good job though, def. top tier.

edit: buff charizard! mor range on fair please

 

[Spoon~]

This reminds of one other thing I want to bring up. People are almost punishing Vro's achievements for the sake that he used a new character. However, everyone out there is forgeting that he is being rewarded for his experience in PM as compared to his competitors. Most other players there who were melee vets had little to no experience with PM beforehand. It's only fair that Vro should have a competitive advantage from better matchup experience.

Agreed, respect is due.

 

[Deleted member]

> Ike is OP

> gets 2nd @ FC

> Ike is mediocre lol

Vro has a lot of areas to improve on and he still did well. I'd say Ike's metagame is very far from developed.

 

[Pimpfish]

d3 can edgeguard the crap out of ike with ftilt. or jump out and intercept ike out of his qd.

 

[iLink]

So I did a brief write-up of what I think of the whole cast in the demo and a few suggested changes that I think should be considered for experiment in the dev builds. Most of them are pretty minor in the sense that they are just a few frame or hitbox tweaks and don't really change the character's established playstyle.

Where on smashmods would be a good place to make the post? The write-ups aren't long enough to warrant an entire topic to each character but I think they would get lost or go unnoticed if I posted them individually in other topics.

 

[Citrus]

You could just put it in general discussion.

 

[DrinkingFood]

You don't. PMBR doesn't accept change requests. It's against the rules on smash mods and your post will either get locked or removed.

 

[iLink]

It's not me requesting changes as much as its my opinion on the characters and suggesting stuff to experiment.

 

[metroid1117]

To say Ike was figured out and owned is in 2 days makes little sense considering Vro isn't the best Ike...

Considering his strong background in Melee and his tournament victories, I think it'd be safe to assume that Vro is the best Ike.

His recovery isn't the best out there, his UpB sweetspot is easily edgeguarded (which noone at the tourney managed to do... hint: wait until he shoots up himself (not the sword) then ftilt/smash/what ever you feel like) and his forwardB is slower than fox/falco and needs charging. this will be exploited in the future.

Although I agree with you on his QD recovery, Aether is extremely hard to hit if Ike sweetspots - from my testing, not even Marth's DTilt can reach him because Ike's edgegrab hitbox is all the way to the top of the spinning portion of the sword, not at his head. If Ike sweetspots, you can easily edgehog him though.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I believe the PMBR will end up nerfing Ike, they have a good reason not to do it now though, as the metagame is still in baby diapers. But they are not stubborn and take feedback & tournament results very seriously. As Ike players get better I believe we are going to see bit of a "Metaknight" - pattern occuring in P:M showing his dominance. I believe this will happen despite of people getting better at the matchup. The things I would nerf with him are his:

1. Weight
2. Recovery

If you are going to keep his offensive strenghts the same way he should have heavy exploittable flaws like the spacies do. If he's this crazy offensive character he shouldn't live long. Ike has very good tools for controlling space with his range and speed, he also has insane kill power. Don't forget, we have yet seen Ike's full potential. The same is trough for the development of the matchup though.

 

[DMG]

Low sweeping moves can be hard. Stuff from above though should solidly beat it out if you have any kind of range, at least once Ike actually leaps up there.

 

[Archangel]

On an unrelated note, looks like Pit has a pretty substantial dthrow chaingrab against space animals, dunno if this was known or intentional or can be DI'd out of or what.

Looked like nobody had noticed yet and Smashmods won't let me sign up so I thought I'd mention it here.

Yeah it's a legit chaingrab on fast fallers. Pretty sure it goes on untill over 50% at least on spacies.

you can CG from about 0 to 15-65% on a few characters but some characters that are really heavy, floaty, or both don't get CG'd at all because they fly to far away or their weight causes Pit to delay on his dthrow too long(sometimes gets you smacked in the face depending on who you are playing against).

In my opinion so far I'd say pit(like most newcomers) can fight very well against spacies(3 characters) He's got some good chains and gimps on them. However, he doesn't seem to have been planned out too far past that.

 

[Life]

Pit has good chains and gimps on a lot of characters actually (DK, Marth, and Ike come to mind). It's kind of his style.

Makes it a pain to fight characters like Puff though. At least she dies at silly low percents to upB if you can hit it.

 

[leelue]

I'd like to point out some misinformation given about ike/sonic by drinking food
Sonic's spring doesn't beat ike's silly armor on up b

 

[DMG]

To be fair, I think he said it was either beating the armor or was possibly hitting Ike as he was rising up/armor was over. You'd figure the spinning sword would eat the spring though? Maybe not

 

[Life]

I just went in and gimped CPU Ike with spring myself. Was more difficult getting him low enough that he'd Aether TBH.

 

[Wizzrobe]

I'd like to point out some misinformation given about ike/sonic by drinking food
Sonic's spring doesn't beat ike's silly armor on up b

It seems to workfor me. Also, I use it for his side b wall jump.

 

[FireBall Stars]

I'd like to point out some misinformation given about ike/sonic by drinking food
Sonic's spring doesn't beat ike's silly armor on up b

True, the spring works if it hits ike after the armor goes away, that means, when he is rising.

The spinning sword has laser priority, which means that it doesn't interact with other hitboxes/articles. Ike is vulnerable to vertical projectiles, and well, the spring is the only vertical projectile that goes down besides item projectiles such as bombs and turnips.

 

[Archangel]

Pit has good chains and gimps on a lot of characters actually (DK, Marth, and Ike come to mind). It's kind of his style.

Makes it a pain to fight characters like Puff though. At least she dies at silly low percents to upB if you can hit it.

the difficulty with Pit is controlling good players long enough to win. He can get some really good combos in at lower %'s but the problem is when people start DI'ing or Jumping out of your gimp set ups Pit's plan B becomes Arrow-Run-Arrow which is effective against some characters considering how difficult it is to finish people off with pit racking up damage can sometimes work against you. Most who play pit often can think of at least 1 time they lost a game last stock when the opponent was 150% or higher when they killed him. It's not a new problem it's something marth suffered alot from in melee actually. He dismantled everyone at lower %'s but once they got above setup range he was forced to play a waiting game and hope to get off a lucky tipper. Pit has projectiles to help with his waiting game but he has no lucky tipper or really any go to kill move unless someone is really stupid enough to high jump into an upsmash. Even then there is a good chance they'll DI-tech-smack you in the face :D.


Don't take this the wrong way I still think pit is good he's just not reliable or "safe" choice right now. I think that's partly why nobody plays him. his section is like...dead on smashmods. It looks like the Marth boards here lol.