Project M Social Thread

[RomeDogg]

This question may possibly sound stupid but do you have to have unlocked certain characters and certain levels on your regular brawl game in order to have them in the Project M version of the game once you install it or open it or whatever?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's all unlocked for you.

A PM only tournament is pretty cool. I'm saddened by the lack of Melee, though.

Oh, and you just ruined me and toaster's K-On! avatar chain. You'll need to get a K-On! avatar now to fix your error.

 

[RomeDogg]

Thank you and lets say that Project M brings back all the lost characters like Mewtwo and was in fact is more balanced than Melee overall. Do you think Melee will become obsolete or should be maintain in the tournament scene?

 

[RaphaelRobo]

Melee should continue to be present, but I think PM will become more popular, by bringing in the majority of Melee and Brawl players.

 

[RomeDogg]

Yeah true. It is forever a classic. Did they make it so you can wall tech/wall tech to wall jump with all the characters in Project M yet?

 

[Magus420]

I think he's one of the best characters atm, lol. I feel like I have little reason to use CF, who I'm probably slightly better with of the two in melee, in any matchup I've encountered. Main thing is that aerial side-b though.

He has imo from what I've noticed (much of this wasn't intentionally done, but rather many of the negative differences were addressed at some point leaving much of the positive ones):
-Better dash attack (covers more ground over time)
-Good DACUS
-Better f-tilt (significantly more reach + low trajectory)
-Slightly better angled f-tilts (little more reach, down hits a bit lower under edge)
-Slightly better d-tilt (more reach?, and poking instead of sweeping animation gets full range on 1st hit frame)
-Better up angled f-smash (seems to combo up to higher percents out of d-throw, also can stutter step to reach behind DI or in general)
-Slightly better d-smash? (feels like it may have a bit more reach)
-Better n-air (hit windows on kicks are larger and both kicks seem to land more often)
-Slightly better f-air (bit more reach, can be ledgehopped, seems like it can't reverse hit as well though on the overhead part)
-Slightly better u-air (landing lag 12->10)
-Slightly better d-air (landing lag 17->15)
-Better u-throw (on fast fallers can CG from 0 to d-throw CG range + guaranteed combos)
-****ing crazy good aerial side-b (flying air grab mixup to add to his air game that combos directly into grab/jab or at least a high reward difficult to avoid techchase, can be ledgehopped to go ground distance + air's slam, can grab edges backwards if used not too close, can suicide KO for favorable % stock trades or suicideless meteor into edgeguard near edges even at 0)
-Slightly worse ground side-b (mainly because it's near completely overshadowed by air, and mostly good for the instant dodge which melee version also had. can grab edges after falling off though so it's really safe used towards an edge)
-Better down-b (landing lag from air 57? -> 30. ground version endlag can be edgecanceled. less endlag on ground ending in air)
-Slightly/significantly better recovery (unlike CF the side-b has less startup and a much better sweetspot. can't edgetech yet, but sweetspot range is pretty good compared to others)

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I didn't know about a lot of those changes. Mostly because I didn't bother looking for them, since the website says his regular moves function exactly the same way they did in Melee.

It does explain why certain things, like his Ftilt and Dtilt, felt different when going back to Melee. I didn't really notice both kicks landing on Nair, though, since I usually only use Nair to get the first kick in and bump them up onto a platform. I hadn't tried ledgehopping Fair in this game, I just assumed it didn't work. I'm going to have to give it a go now. I know in Melee it always looked like it was going to work, but didn't. I also didn't know the thing about the dash attack, since I know the DACUS range well enough that I always use that instead, or do a run cancel jab. I thought the bigger reach on Fair was just a mind trick because of the purple floaty stuff that he didn't have in Melee, making the entire hitbox visible. And yeah, going off the edge with sideB is really good. I think it's the only aspect of it that's better than his Melee sideB, though. In Melee you were always guaranteed some form of aerial after a successful sideB, but here there's no such guarantee.

Ganon seems to compete very well. Going off the changes listed on the website, he should still be mid tier. Going off the changes you've listed, he should be high tier (and that aerial sideB is so good. I need to use it more often, because it's always insane whenever I do) and definitely better than CF for people that like the Ganon playstyle.

Ganon's sideB is useful for recovery, but if the opponent is decent at edgeguarding they'll be waiting for you to reveal whether you'll use a sideB or upB, and then edgeguard based off of that. On the good side, if they mess up the edgeguard, you can get a suicide out of it.

I'm going to go try that Uthrow out right away. I always thought the Falco CG was a lot of fun in Melee, but it's really really tough at lower percents. A better Uthrow would help a lot with that.

 

[Magus420]

Big plus for side-b as a recovery move is in cases to avoid getting into an edgeguard situation in the first place by getting to the edge much faster than you would if you would otherwise need to up-b. Also when your're the one edgeguarding.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

I hadn't really thought of it that way. Those are some big advantages.

 

[MonkUnit]

I didn't know there were that many differences Ganon had from melee.

Personally, I'm thinking Ganon's in contention for it [being worst character].

Ganon seems to compete very well.

lol

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's PM's balance. Of course the worst character is going to compete well.

Also, keep in mind that I said he was in contention for it going off the changes listed on the PM website. Going off the changes Magus listed, he isn't in contention for being the worst. The thing is, you have to know about all those changes from Melee in order to take advantage of them, otherwise you'll play him just like Melee Ganon. I don't know about other people, but when I play a Melee character in PM, I expect them to be exactly like they were in Melee, aside from the listed changes, so I'm not going to be looking for a bunch of differences, which Magus clearly did. Maybe I should be doing that. I just assumed when the website said that everything was exactly the same (aside from appearance), it was exactly the same. The website even uses Dtilt as an example, saying it is exactly the same as it is in Melee. However, Magus' data shows that it's better than it is in Melee. These statements are in direct conflict with each other, so one of them has to be wrong.

 

[standardtoaster]

Magus is never wrong though

 

[leelue]

Never ever.

 

[CSDragon]

Going off the changes you've listed, he should be high tier

There are characters in Project M who aren't high tier?

 

[choknater]

losers finals set between me and sfat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSmI4GAFT10&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsB6ZU8-fDE&feature=plcp

the game is really fun

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

losers finals set between me and sfat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSmI4GAFT10&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsB6ZU8-fDE&feature=plcp

the game is really fun

Thank you for posting, it's amazing to see Bowser being able to compete vs. Spacies. I expect your Bowser to get even better in the future

Posted on Facebook page

By the way, who do you think is worse for Bowser, Falco or Fox?

 

[DrinkingFood]

I would say Falco.
Don't feel like defending that though. lol

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

I would say Falco.
Don't feel like defending that though. lol

First I thought Falco too, but then I changed my mind.
Fox is faster than Falco and has easier time killing Bowser, also
Fox's recovery reaches bit further.

 

[MonkUnit]

SHL gets beat by crawl armor, and possibly dair as well(?). I think Falco would be harder for Bowser because Fox's moves that lead into shine (staled weak nair, staled weak bair, dair, every hit of fair, etc.) get beat out by crawl armor.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

SHL gets beat by crawl armor, and possibly dair as well(?). I think Falco would be harder for Bowser because Fox's moves that lead into shine (staled weak nair, staled weak bair, dair, every hit of fair, etc.) get beat out by crawl armor.

I thought about this too, but Fox can literally run circles around Bowser and bait approaches, taking advantage of Bowser's lack of speed, while racking up damage with blaster. Fox isn't as combo-oriented char (in practice, not in theory) as Falco so Bowser's big size accommodates for that. In sets posted Falco had some issues killing Bowser whereas Fox's up smash would kill around 100%. Given the armor Bowser has against Fox, grabs are probably quite safe and important.

E: I'm not claiming these to be facts, just my own thoughts

 

[kaizo13]

i'm gonna have to go with fox...dat up smash/u-air + speed

and better recovery, falco gets gimped too easy by bowser

 

[ph00tbag]

Fox is worlds harder for Bowser. Fox can just dash dance all day. Falco only has lasers for spacing control, and Bowser has crawl armor, so he literally doesn't care about that.

 

[Shadic]

Going off the changes Magus listed, he isn't in contention for being the worst. The thing is, you have to know about all those changes from Melee in order to take advantage of them, otherwise you'll play him just like Melee Ganon. I don't know about other people, but when I play a Melee character in PM, I expect them to be exactly like they were in Melee, aside from the listed changes, so I'm not going to be looking for a bunch of differences, which Magus clearly did. Maybe I should be doing that. I just assumed when the website said that everything was exactly the same (aside from appearance), it was exactly the same. The website even uses Dtilt as an example, saying it is exactly the same as it is in Melee. However, Magus' data shows that it's better than it is in Melee. These statements are in direct conflict with each other, so one of them has to be wrong.

We gloss over minute details on the character writeup pages in order to keep them reasonably length'd.

Dtilt has the same hitbox stats as Melee, but the animation is different. Thus it's going to behave slightly differently, as Magus explained. The website has a general summary of every character, but don't use it as some sort of throttle to hold you off from exploring the character or the game. For non high-tier Melee characters, there are many minute changes, some intentional, some not, some explained, some not.

Even if Project M plays 99% like Melee's engine and your main has been mostly ported over, don't pigeonhole yourself into Melee's metagame. Most characters have new tricks or super-slight improvements on some moves that we haven't detailed on the site.

 

[GunBlaze]

losers finals set between me and sfat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSmI4GAFT10&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsB6ZU8-fDE&feature=plcp

the game is really fun

Not a Bowser player, but to see him being able to at least deal with spacies shows the improvement achieved by P:M

We gloss over minute details on the character writeup pages in order to keep them reasonably length'd.

Dtilt has the same hitbox stats as Melee, but the animation is different. Thus it's going to behave slightly differently, as Magus explained. The website has a general summary of every character, but don't use it as some sort of throttle to hold you off from exploring the character or the game. For non high-tier Melee characters, there are many minute changes, some intentional, some not, some explained, some not.

Even if Project M plays 99% like Melee's engine and your main has been mostly ported over, don't pigeonhole yourself into Melee's metagame. Most characters have new tricks or super-slight improvements on some moves that we haven't detailed on the site.

About those, does the Falcon Kick have less endlag? It seems it does, at least for me.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Something like that yes.

 

[Bullet Bill]

Quick question- will you be releasing any of the demos on PAL? I think you've done a fantastic job on the game so far and I've had a lot of fun playing it, but I'm limited at the moment to the very few people with modded wiis to play it. Since I do play normal games on my wii, I don't want to compromise it's playability by hacking into it. It'd be fantastic for all of the European players to be able to have a playable version of project M as well

 

[GunBlaze]

Quick question- will you be releasing any of the demos on PAL? I think you've done a fantastic job on the game so far and I've had a lot of fun playing it, but I'm limited at the moment to the very few people with modded wiis to play it. Since I do play normal games on my wii, I don't want to compromise it's playability by hacking into it. It'd be fantastic for all of the European players to be able to have a playable version of project M as well

It is rather difficult to convert the files, unlike the japanese version. Also, there is no one at the moment to port the codes and character files.

 

[Archangel]

You said SS won Grand Finals? you mean Thee SS? Also is there full bracket somewhere?

 

[MonkUnit]

Quick question- will you be releasing any of the demos on PAL? I think you've done a fantastic job on the game so far and I've had a lot of fun playing it, but I'm limited at the moment to the very few people with modded wiis to play it. Since I do play normal games on my wii, I don't want to compromise it's playability by hacking into it. It'd be fantastic for all of the European players to be able to have a playable version of project M as well

Installing homebrew channel and USB loading to use Project M will not affect your Wii's ability to read and play wii and gamecube games through the disc channel or other disc loaders.

 

[abcool]

Can someone explain how to get Melee Sfx working through Riivolution? X/Private/Wii/app/RSBE/pf/sound only works for strm. I put the Smashbros_sounds.brsar in that folder, but it still doesn't load. I know it works because beyondyou Riivolution loads it, but it doesn't load the project M interface. So i am kinda stuck with the Riivolution that is on the Project M website. This is not a simple task in the less.

 

[MonkUnit]

Can someone explain how to get Melee Sfx working through Riivolution? X/Private/Wii/app/RSBE/pf/sound only works for strm. I put the Smashbros_sounds.brsar in that folder, but it still doesn't load. I know it works because beyondyou Riivolution loads it, but it doesn't load the project M interface. So i am kinda stuck with the Riivolution that is on the Project M website. This is not a simple task in the less.

=========== Where do I place my music? ===================

X:/brawlmods/music/ - Where you place "info.pac", and optionally, "smashbros_sound.brsar".

If brawlmods/music/ doesnt work, try brawlmods/projectm/music

 

[GunBlaze]

Can someone explain how to get Melee Sfx working through Riivolution? X/Private/Wii/app/RSBE/pf/sound only works for strm. I put the Smashbros_sounds.brsar in that folder, but it still doesn't load. I know it works because beyondyou Riivolution loads it, but it doesn't load the project M interface. So i am kinda stuck with the Riivolution that is on the Project M website. This is not a simple task in the less.

Only Riivo can replace such intrinsic sound IIRC

 

[choknater]

Thank you for posting, it's amazing to see Bowser being able to compete vs. Spacies. I expect your Bowser to get even better in the future

Posted on Facebook page

By the way, who do you think is worse for Bowser, Falco or Fox?

both were pretty difficult to deal with.

Not a Bowser player, but to see him being able to at least deal with spacies shows the improvement achieved by P:M

yeah, i like him a lot. i will stick with him for now, at least until ice climbers are released.

i wish i had a copy of the game lol.

 

[abcool]

=========== Where do I place my music? ===================

X:/brawlmods/music/ - Where you place "info.pac", and optionally, "smashbros_sound.brsar".

If brawlmods/music/ doesnt work, try brawlmods/projectm/music

I did that already. That is why i say the only thing that loads is strm. The Smashbros_sound.brsar doesn't load up the sound effects. If i do that same setup in Beyondyou Riivolution it would load the sound effects. That is why i wanna know if it's the Project M Xml that isn't loading the smashbros_sound etc.

 

[Wolfy!]

You said SS won Grand Finals? you mean Thee SS? Also is there full bracket somewhere?

Yes, it was THE SilentSpectre. He won using Falcon, of course.

Unfortunately, I didn't get to record a lot of the P:M matches and had to leave before I could record Grand Finals, so all I had was Loser's Semis and Loser's Finals. I'll try to get some more Project: M tourney matches on my channel in the future.

The full bracket is here for those who are interested.

 

[abcool]

Alright MonkUnit!!! You're the best man! It worked about time. I guess it was music instead of Sound. Awesome.

 

[iLink]

I'm kind of late on the fox/falco vs bowser topic but I think you guys are giving crawl armor too much credit against falco's lasers. Bowser isn't exactly fast while crawling and if you were any kind of smart, you would get out of the way before you are in range of his attacks.

I rather try to PS the lasers instead of purposely taking damage without guaranteeing a hit.

As for who is better against bowser, its kind of hard to say. Fox definitely has better mobility to use against bowser but bowser's armor works better against fox. Falco's lasers are better for pestering him and gimps bowser easier imo but has a pitiful time recovering. Its not to say that both fox and falco are pretty much dead by going offstage against bowser anyway.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

There's some old codes floating around for a clone engine that allows you to have 2 marths, one over MarioD. They're hidden somewhere on one of Dant's old public webpages. It has numerous aesthetic and probably practical bugs, but it works. They probably spent some time digging it up and used it for this video. Requires a custom CSS to even use it IIRC.

This info is not only public but almost 2 years old at this point. It was never really big-time publicized, but it's sort of weird how few people know about this stuff (nobody follows the clone engine :<). I guess cats out of the bag now, huh?

For anyone interested, the codes in question are here: http://opensa.dantarion.com/wiki/Clone_Engine_Example_Codes It doesn't look like it comes with a CSS for MarioD though.

Also, check the MarioD slot notes here: http://opensa.dantarion.com/wiki/Character_Slots If it weren't so fricking ancient I'd say hype.

 

[DrinkingFood]

@ X iLink X
That's what I was thinking. Bowser's crawl armor vs falco's lasers are only useful when falco is predictable with them, or if Bowser spends the entire game crouching. On top of that, the crawl armor absorbs a huge portion of Fox's combo attacks, so CCing into crouch armor suddenly becomes a good combo breaker. Meanwhile, Falco's combos will be putting Bowser in the air, where he doesn't have CCing or his crawl armor. Also, I feel like citing Fox's better recovery is a pretty moot point since Bowser can pretty much edgeguard either one of them to death should he get them off the stage.

 

[Metà]

When I'm facing falco with bowser I'd rather just jump over the lasers with down-b, and position myself on a platform. It's also nice how the start-up has armour frames