Project M Social Thread

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

What I think would be cool is the way how mario currently is make him a little like Ganondorf with his spiking thing so that way his spike while on stage would knock you up. And while off stage would send you straight down with out the wiff. Idk its just a suggestion and would make him feel more like Mario and Doc at the same time.

However the Alternate file loader would also be cool also because you probably just make a skin select for Dr.Mario with a Dr.Mario type moveset.

Alt file loader link:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=250370&highlight=almas+alternate+file+code&page=24

Its up to the devs however they wanna do their characters for this game though and from what Ive seen so far the game looks amazing. If the game is already far enough advanced into I would say don't worry about the code. Because it looks tricky on how to use.

 

[kaizo13]

i kinda agree with Bandit here.....Diddy would still be more than decent without his bananas tripping.

Most importantly, it isn't very Melee-ish

but yeah, i would be ok with them not tripping .Maybe you can make him pull out the bananas without tossing them (in his hands) to make up for the no tripping

 

[Rikana]

I wouldn't mind if tripping was entirely taken out. It would be even better.

maybe it's the sfx/animation. tripping in brawl relates more to slapstick than an exceptional tactic. if an opponent faceplanted rather than sat on their *** while effected, or dropped down on one knee, hands on ground, and the sfx was less ridiculous, i bet people would like it a lot more.

agreed. that'd nerf diddy, though, specifically his dash attack grabbing (****, really need CC already for this). i guess he could WD compensate...

I still wouldn't like it if they landed face first. I just think tripping is a dumb mechanic for smash in general.

With Melee's item pick up/catch mechanic, I think it would be more of a buff to Diddy than nerf though. Diddy gets a head start with the bananas to make you trip and keep you pressured. Not only that, you'll no longer be able to pick them up by using your dash attack so the pressure game will last until the bananas are gone.

If bananas' tripping properties are kept, maybe we can make the bananas disappear after 1 trip. I'm all for removing tripping entirely though. The bananas can just be items used as an advantage. Just think of it like Peach's turnips except you still have access to them after one throw.

Edit: There's a lot of people who seem to like tripping gone. I'm curious to know who would like them kept.

 

[Sneak8288]

Wait, can will you still be able to catch items with attacks? I think this would make spacies godlike vs diddy on FD. Just imagine using falco and being able to approach normally with dair and still catch a nanna and combo and zdrop a nanna mid combo and keep combing and picking it up again with like an shffled upair while continuing the combo... broken lol, or maybe my imagination is just running away with me

 

[Sterowent]

i want to keep tripping. the idea is interesting, and it's not broken.

it's basically a form of grounded hitstun, as short as it is, with an added techchase. if anything, it changes the game for characters on the ground a lot vs. those in the air a lot. more diversity.

the problems in tripping lie in being able to keep opponents in a loop. that and tripping is random for a lot of moves, save diddy's bananas. i'd much rather see tripping always work at a percent range (move based), thus making opponents have to keep it in mind while fighting. just think of being able to low-percent combo into a trip > techchase > aerial combo. that's sick to me, a combo from the ground up.

Edit: Actually, even in retrospec, the tripping mechanic rings as a really great one, a mechanic far superior to footstooling, at least in its current form. thought about it for a moment, and i think tripping has a lot of potential as a balancing factor as well as another level of complexity on the ground. it has possibilities, a few of which i'll lay out here.

as many know, CC is prototyping right now. and a lot of people are excited to bring it back, myself included. more options and counters to options, more complexity for the high percent game. but many also remember how this ****ed up approaches for some characters, like mario and roy, i think? players had to play hard defense, shield grabs, projectile spam and all that. well, i think if tripping were to go through CC, this'd add another layer, some would say needlessly, to this. not only that, but approaching with a WD dtilt overall would be another great approach, which would be nice for characters like roy (who i hope we'll have the capabilities to bring back by then).

another tripping idea: characters each have hitstun constants, yeah? well, how about tripping constant? ie, opponents, for whatever reason, would be more susceptible to tripping moves. in this way, you can force opponents to be caught by tripping for a slightly greater range than moves originally would work with (or lesser range). it's that, or characters with more susceptibility would be caught in the tripping animation longer (giving trippers better room for followups), or have a tripping roll that's slower and easier to read.

the mechanic isn't bad. it's the application of the mechanic that is bad.

 

[shanus]

i want to keep tripping. the idea is interesting, and it's not broken.

it's basically a form of grounded hitstun, as short as it is, with an added techchase. if anything, it changes the game for characters on the ground a lot vs. those in the air a lot. more diversity.

the problems in tripping lie in being able to keep opponents in a loop. that and tripping is random for a lot of moves, save diddy's bananas. i'd much rather see tripping always work at a percent range (move based), thus making opponents have to keep it in mind while fighting. just think of being able to low-percent combo into a trip > techchase > aerial combo. that's sick to me, a combo from the ground up.

Or we can just make it so you can be tripped again when in a lying or tripped state. That way you can only be tripped while standing

 

[Sterowent]

that'd certainly help cut the looping, yeah. diddy would still retain his great techchases, but he would lose his loops.

'course, i do want more out of it.

 

[Krautrock]

i want to keep tripping. the idea is interesting, and it's not broken.

it's basically a form of grounded hitstun, as short as it is, with an added techchase. if anything, it changes the game for characters on the ground a lot vs. those in the air a lot. more diversity.

the problems in tripping lie in being able to keep opponents in a loop. that and tripping is random for a lot of moves, save diddy's bananas. i'd much rather see tripping always work at a percent range (move based), thus making opponents have to keep it in mind while fighting. just think of being able to low-percent combo into a trip > techchase > aerial combo. that's sick to me, a combo from the ground up.

I completely agree. Obviously tripping doesn't feel "melee-ish" because... it's not in melee. That doesn't mean it's a bad mechanic or that it has no place in Project M. Yes, Project M is trying to replicate the feel of melee, but that doesn't mean it can't incorporate any new things. People are complaining about B+ being too conservative... Well total adherence to melee (even though it is certainly a better guideline than brawl) is another form of conservatism. P:M should be an update and improvement (!), not a clone.

As pointed out, however, tripping should definitely be made more consistent - random chance is not something that has any place in a competitive fighting game. It should also only occur where it makes sense, not arbitrarily all over the place.

At the very least, Diddy's bananas should still trip. They are part of what makes him such an interesting/tricky character, and taking them away would seriously change him for the worse in my opinion.

But I've got <5 posts, so who cares about my opinion. ^_^

 

[jalued]

if you want to make tripping work, it should be instantly techable as soon as you hit the ground. That would meleefy it. Non of that stupid animation deadframe ****e

you spend far too long on the ground befoer you can move. It should be instant

 

[Shadic]

I think bananas should have a normal hitbox when in the air, and should only trip when they're sitting on the ground, if that's possible.

 

[jalued]

I think bananas should have a normal hitbox when in the air, and should only trip when they're sitting on the ground, if that's possible.

yeah, they would still offer diddy a wall of hitstun. I support!

 

[TommyDerMeister]

if you want to make tripping work, it should be instantly techable as soon as you hit the ground. That would meleefy it. Non of that stupid animation deadframe ****e

you spend far too long on the ground befoer you can move. It should be instant

Yes.

I think bananas should have a normal hitbox when in the air, and should only trip when they're sitting on the ground, if that's possible.

YES.

yeah, they would still offer diddy a wall of hitstun. I support!

YES!

 

[jalued]

Yes.



YES.



YES!

someone ( ^ ), just came

 

[Deleted member]

Diddy and tripping do not feel Melee like simply because they are not in Melee. It's as easy as that.

By that logic, this whole concept of P:M is void and Melee can only be Melee like, but I'm off point.

Bananas are necessary to Diddy's metagame, so before nerfing them w/o any character balance beta, this is all theorycraft and assumptions.

Also, if bananas were to be broken hypothetically, you should then look at all high tier Melee characters. All of them have something broken (or at least good if not broken) and pivotal to their metagame which allows them to be interesting to play and difficult to play against.

Just looking at Diddy play w/o any balances on stream, he looks Melee-like in playstyle. He has all the traits he needs and an important metagame based on bananas. Whether or not he is balanced is another issue and that speed bump will come when we drive over it.

Also, Shell, I got an idea for your Mario Fair:

Different Fair for a held A button like Doc's while holding A and Mario's by tapping A quickly.

 

[Sterowent]

if mario gets that change, his hand should burst into flame the moment he taps A the second time. meteor A is fire and players can react. otherwise, they DI doc hit. that wouldn't be too bad.


are you guys saying that a thrown banana wouldn't trip a grounded opponent? because that's bull****. if that were the case, he ought to at least get more bananas on the field at once.
also, teching trips sounds like it'd take away a huge chunk of applications. characters with moderately lagged trip moves would find them to be pretty useless against a good opponent.

 

[Deleted member]

if mario gets that change, his hand should burst into flame the moment he taps A the second time. meteor A is fire and players can react. otherwise, they DI doc hit. that wouldn't be too bad.

Naw, I mean a Fair with A tapped would be different than a Fair with A held down. Like MK's cape, it depends if you hold the button down or not.

 

[jalued]

are you guys saying that a thrown banana wouldn't trip a grounded opponent? because that's bull****. if that were the case, he ought to at least get more bananas on the field at once.
also, teching trips sounds like it'd take away a huge chunk of applications. characters with moderately lagged trip moves would find them to be pretty useless against a good opponent.

you have to remember that melee is a very fast paced game due to Wding. There is far too much lag on tripping for melee gameplay

 

[Dantarion]

Here is my opinion.
Speed up tripping and add IASA so you can roll or stand up quicker after it happens.

Perhaps let Diddy slip on his thrown bananas?

 

[TommyDerMeister]

Perhaps let Diddy slip on his thrown bananas?

I love it.

 

[stingers]

umm i think techable trips but leave everything else the same is perfect...

 

[Shadic]

Perhaps let Diddy slip on his thrown bananas?

This would actually make sense in a Melee context, too. Link can hit his own bombs in Melee, but can't in Brawl.

 

[jalued]

Here is my opinion.
Speed up tripping and add IASA so you can roll or stand up quicker after it happens.

Perhaps let Diddy slip on his thrown bananas?

love it too!

 

[stingers]

really speeding up IASA and the animation seems like rewarding people for getting hit...just make it like brawl, except make it techable. it needs to be techable because otherwise it'd be broken because people can move soo much faster and tripping punishes would be insane.

 

[Sterowent]

bleh, take a cool mechanic, dwindle it down, techchasing move. maybe you're right that melee is too fast for a more complex form of this, but it still seems wasteful to me.

 

[jalued]

bleh, take a cool mechanic, dwindle it down, techchasing move. maybe you're right that melee is too fast for a more complex form of this, but it still seems wasteful to me.

this is the speed of top level melee (yes i know its an old vid): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewky1ZcpGlU

now imagine diddy playing at this speed....

now imagine him throwing a banana..and how slow the tripping would seem in relation to the rest of the game (not including diddy cancelling the animation by grabbing)

just asking for it to be the same speed as everything else. It isnt a real nerf (also consider tech rolls being slowed down ala melee)

 

[JCaesar]

if you want to make tripping work, it should be instantly techable as soon as you hit the ground. That would meleefy it. Non of that stupid animation deadframe ****e

you spend far too long on the ground befoer you can move. It should be instant

I support this. More techchasing = more Melee.

Different Fair for a held A button like Doc's while holding A and Mario's by tapping A quickly.

ooo that's a pretty neat idea

 

[stingers]

ooo that's a pretty neat idea

its hardly beginner friendly though =/ smash isn't something that goes into multiple button inputs for basic attacks...hell link's multijab is really the only thing

 

[Deleted member]

its hardly beginner friendly though =/ smash isn't something that goes into multiple button inputs for basic attacks...hell link's multijab is really the only thing

What? It's one button input just like MK's cape diverging into 2 feasible options. No complications at all except for w/e the cstick would have fair mapped as.

This is by no means difficult. Waveshining is far more difficult.

 

[stingers]

MK's down b is different since you're either just holding the button you used to start the move in the first place or simply letting go...and yes semantics like this do matter because it's all about comfort level, and how much the player feels in control of his character. especially because the animations would probably be the same for the 2 moves and you'd have no way to tell until it actually landed...it'd just be really unprofessional

waveshining is a combination of multiple actions that we gave a name to, totally different.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a held A for one different fair and a single, tapped A for another different Fair. There is no button combo besides a stick angle and a single press of the A button.

Smash is not a beginner friendly game, but this isn't advanced tech.

 

[DarkDragoon]

MK's down b is different since you're either just holding the button you used to start the move in the first place or simply letting go...

That is exactly what was proposed. You hit A to get Mario's, or hold it to get Doc's.

and yes semantics like this do matter because it's all about comfort level, and how much the player feels in control of his character.

Beginners are always comfortable and never in control of their character, no matter what they choose to believe.

-DD

 

[JCaesar]

and yes semantics like this do matter

So does reading comprehension

 

[stingers]

meh. the dude said "tapping a quickly". I don't get "press A once" out of that

 

[Gardevior]

So if I c-stick all my aerials, I'm limited to only one part of Doc/Mario's fair?

 

[JCaesar]

Well, hopefully it would be:
Hold C-stick left/right = Doc fair
Release C-stick quickly = Mario fair

 

[Handorin]

It sounds like that makes things after a Doc Fair more difficult since your thumb spends more time on the Cstick.

 

[GHNeko]

Can't we just got a clone engine and just make a copy of Doc. <_<

Or like replace the Red Alloy with Mario and the original Mario with Doc. <_>

 

[stingers]

yeah >.> and fit mewtwo in there somewhere too :3

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

problem with alloys is I dont believe they can grab the ledge at all. And are extremely floaty. Also a considerable ammount of work would be needed I would think for them to even use special moves.

 

[crazycrackers]

Why don't we just make a single button press the mario fair and another tap of A after the move has started the doc fair? 0_o

I believe you could just C-stick the input twice to get the doc fair out if we did that. Getting doc himself would be a better alternative, but I don't think we should coin that as our only option when we don't have the ability to do that in a practical fashion at the moment.