Project M Social Thread

[GP&B]

Ah, I completely forgot about zap jumping...
Refresh my memory, do both of them have it? I felt it was specific to Lucas for some odd reason.

 

[iLink]

In a sense they both have it, but have totally different effects.

 

[GP&B]

I'm only aware of Lucas' major height gain from his Zap Jump.

 

[GHNeko]

Ness' is mostly horizontal.

 

[SonioNineteen]

Will Tripping caused by attacks will still be in P:M?

 

[Shell]

Random tripping will be removed, and tripping caused by a small number of moves (such as diddy's bananas) will remain. They will be logical, though... Ganon Fair is the classic example of a move that shouldn't trip, haha.

 

[Plum]

Random tripping will be removed, and tripping caused by a small number of moves (such as diddy's bananas) will remain. They will be logical, though... Ganon Fair is the classic example of a move that shouldn't trip, haha.

I cried when I saw a Falcon/Warlock Punch trip. That's just so wrong on so many levels.

 

[Rikana]

Random tripping will be removed, and tripping caused by a small number of moves (such as diddy's bananas) will remain. They will be logical, though... Ganon Fair is the classic example of a move that shouldn't trip, haha.

I think the only attack that should cause tripping is Diddy's bananas. I don't think tripping will appeal to some melee vets. Well, I don't like tripping at all at least. It just doesn't look professional. I hope it all gets removed except Diddy's bananas because its part of his character.

 

[PZ]

Will this replace brawl I mean like will people stop playing brawl? seeing how 1 of the only reasons people play brawl is for the online feature. Will you bring back pichu, mewtwo, and roy? NOTE: I dont believe and you bringing the characters back but pichu was so much fun to me minus the damaging effect but who cares spam nair and bair.

 

[Shell]

1) No this will never replace brawl
2) Pichu, M2, and roy might make a return if we can do so without replacing existing characters

 

[Deleted member]

I think the only attack that should cause tripping is Diddy's bananas. I don't think tripping will appeal to some melee vets. Well, I don't like tripping at all at least. It just doesn't look professional. I hope it all gets removed except Diddy's bananas because its part of his character.

Honestly tripping isn't that bad unless it's random tripping. Tripping has been put to use very effectively in B+ along a line of certain moves- especially Dtilts (Zelda, Luigi, Pika can use that feature very well). It leads to a combo off the move or a chase off their roll.

Better characters like say Fox, Sheik, Marth, Falcon, MK probably could live without tripping in their arsenal though. It's not my call, but tripping might be a nice and mild balancing feature in movesets.

 

[crazycrackers]

Tripping-

Doesn't really need to go. Remember, this is basically Melee 2.0, not Melee itself. Forced tripping was not in Melee, but new ideas are welcome. Random tripping is obviously a no.

Chaingrabbing-

CGs are often looked down upon because players don't like to watch as their character is juggled by the same grab over and over again. Chaingrabs were also a major problem in Brawl, especially considering how they were one of the only few forms of real combos, and were easy to start since shieldstun is next to nothing in vBrawl. However, in Melee, CGs were one of the only things keeping space animals in line. I'm going to restate the example of Marth vs Falco in Melee. Marth pretty much had no chance against Falco in Melee. He got pretty much wrecked UNLESS he could land a grab. While of course, some unnecessary CGs should not be included (such as Ganon's/Sheik's), CGs actually helped to balance out the space animals a lot, who I'm sure will once again be deadly forces with some of their old tactics back in play. And keep in mind that landing grabs is much more difficult in Melee than in any other smash game. Put simply, some CGs are obviously a no-go, such as ICs infinites, but some CGs actually help the game balance a bit, and in my opinion should be included.

 

[stingers]

if you cant bring mewtwo or doc back...

project failure

 

[ETWIST51294]

/IGNORE EVERYONE WHO POSTED ANYTHING ANSWERING THIS QUESTION.

*ahem*
Until all the balance things are sorted out, we can't say for sure what the appeal would be. However, Olimar does have awesome Aerial Priority, solid ground game, and is capable of pulling off some incredible combos by manipulating the colors/order of his Pikmin in order to get the most benefit out of their different KBG/BKB/Stun values. And he has a really quick grab considering its length.

wat? No he doesn't, Oli has fairly bad priority actually. Except for yellows. Even Logic (one of the best Olis) said that his recovery isn't even a big deal to him, it's just the fact that if someone's coming to gimp you, you can't do **** because they out prioritize you.

 

[Plum]

When a CG is based on your ability to read your opponent's DI from the throw, CG's based around following your opponent's techs into another grab, or a pseudo CG develops from your ability to grab > move that leads into grab > grab with your character then I see absolutely zero problems with them. Those are the types of CG's that give the opponent an actual chance to escape by mixing up their DI/techs to throw you off, or change how they DI/SDI a move that potentially combos both from a grab and into a grab to avoid it.

Mindless CG's that give absolutely no input from the opponent like DDD's Dthrow, or Yoshi's grab release CG in vBrawl are what I would want out. While I don't think that CG's like that are problems on a competitive level, they are very skewed in terms of risk/reward; for little risk and no real skill you get huge rewards.

 

[DotheDiddyMonkeyDance]

They probably can with an alternate file loader coding but otherwise the characters would have to go over alloys otherwise they have to replace the existing character since a clone engine hasn't came into effect yet. I too would love to see the character roster expanded and those characters added in but I don't think its possible at the moment. Lucario would most likely be a Place holder for mewtwo if anything since Alloys really cant use projectiles/ charge moves etc.

If they some how manage to find a way around this I will be amazed and shocked.

I for one wouldn't mind using a Alt loader for the characters as sort of a return but it looks like from UStream and older videos which are now offline Mario atleast to me looks like a combo between Mario & Doc. Mario combined.

also Grab-release is gonna be out of this game right? Because in Vbrawl it really ruins some characters such as Ness, Lucas, and Snake especially snakes return. I just don't wanna see characters die to stupid things like that.

also from my post on the last page what is happening to diddy and lucario's return are they gonna be able to grab the ledge out of thier UPB's or are they still gonna have retarted Ledge deaths like how they currently are in B+.

 

[Revven]

I just think that even tripping moves that make sense (like DK's Dtilt) just don't belong in the Melee environment for the simple fact that it doesn't feel Melee-ish to me. Not sure if anyone understands my viewpoint but, yeah there you go. As long as the 169 angles are gone from a majority of the moves in the game, I'm happy.

 

[Plum]

The only tripping I ever thought felt "Melee" was Diddy's bananas. Diddy's bananas offer a lot of complexity to Diddy's game, from creating traps, starting/continuing combos, shield pressure strings (z-drop banana onto shield, catch it with a Bair that also hits the shield... stuff like that), stage control, wide use of AT's and some that you only really see with Diddy, and a higher level of thought that goes into playing Diddy that you don't see with simpler characters like MK or G&W.

Other ways of tripping that make sense, primarily on Dtilts it seems, are fine, but I would agree that they don't exactly feel like Melee. I don't even think it's because there was no tripping in Melee, because you could put Diddy in Melee and he would feel just fine because of how he can be played. I think it's more along the lines of how tripping Dtilts are used compared to bananas. Bananas require a lot more thought to use to the highest potential, where as tripping Dtilts are used like any other Dtilt except with the reward of a free trip and a helpless opponent.

I think the game would play just fine with or without them, as long as the loads of lolwut Sakurai angles are removed like on Ganon's Fair. Would it feel more like Melee if the Dtilt trips were gone too though? I think it might.

 

[AMKalmar]

Banana on the ground > you step on it, you slip.
Banana lands on your head... you slip?
...

 

[Shell]

Mario is a really excellent combination of Doc and Mario's strengths right now, so I dunno whether a separate Doc needs to exist... we'll see.

M2 is a WIP.

 

[stingers]

i heard mario has brawl fair in this.

1000000 dislikes

 

[JCaesar]

Mario's fair is nowhere near Brawl. It's a combination of Melee Mario's and Doc's.

 

[stingers]

That's Brawl fair >.>

 

[kaizo13]

i truly hate the idea of giving Mario, Doc attributes. I would like to see Mario play exactly as he did in Melee because he was awesome in Melee (think about the Mario mains)

either wait until we get a clone engine working, OR rage on Sakurai for not putting him in Brawl

but plz do not mix them up, they are 2 different characters

even thou some of Docs moves may be better (in some peoples eyes), it is not the fault of Mario mains that Doc wasn't added....so why change their character???

not fair

 

[Rikana]

I just think that even tripping moves that make sense (like DK's Dtilt) just don't belong in the Melee environment for the simple fact that it doesn't feel Melee-ish to me. Not sure if anyone understands my viewpoint but, yeah there you go. As long as the 169 angles are gone from a majority of the moves in the game, I'm happy.

The only tripping I ever thought felt "Melee" was Diddy's bananas. Diddy's bananas offer a lot of complexity to Diddy's game, from creating traps, starting/continuing combos, shield pressure strings (z-drop banana onto shield, catch it with a Bair that also hits the shield... stuff like that), stage control, wide use of AT's and some that you only really see with Diddy, and a higher level of thought that goes into playing Diddy that you don't see with simpler characters like MK or G&W.

Other ways of tripping that make sense, primarily on Dtilts it seems, are fine, but I would agree that they don't exactly feel like Melee. I don't even think it's because there was no tripping in Melee, because you could put Diddy in Melee and he would feel just fine because of how he can be played. I think it's more along the lines of how tripping Dtilts are used compared to bananas. Bananas require a lot more thought to use to the highest potential, where as tripping Dtilts are used like any other Dtilt except with the reward of a free trip and a helpless opponent.

I think the game would play just fine with or without them, as long as the loads of lolwut Sakurai angles are removed like on Ganon's Fair. Would it feel more like Melee if the Dtilt trips were gone too though? I think it might.

Pretty much how I feel as well except I disagree with the part where tripping could/should stay. Whether its useful or not, it just doesn't suit Melee. So, referring back to my original post - I'd like tripping to be gone for good except for Diddy's Bananas (well they could be gone too but Diddy won't be Diddy anymore).

Regarding the bananas, or items in general, can we change the pickup/catch item mechanic into Melee's? Brawl's method makes it too easy.

 

[Sterowent]

Pretty much how I feel as well except I disagree with the part where tripping could/should stay. Whether its useful or not, it just doesn't suit Melee. So, referring back to my original post - I'd like tripping to be gone for good except for Diddy's Bananas (well they could be gone too but Diddy won't be Diddy anymore).

maybe it's the sfx/animation. tripping in brawl relates more to slapstick than an exceptional tactic. if an opponent faceplanted rather than sat on their *** while effected, or dropped down on one knee, hands on ground, and the sfx was less ridiculous, i bet people would like it a lot more.

Regarding the bananas, or items in general, can we change the pickup/catch item mechanic into Melee's? Brawl's method makes it too easy.

agreed. that'd nerf diddy, though, specifically his dash attack grabbing (****, really need CC already for this). i guess he could WD compensate...

 

[Mewtwo_2000]

Shanus, I've released a beta of my Fourside stage

There will be a melee sized version in the future, but for now this is the thing

 

[GP&B]

I think JC meant that Mario's Fair actually has a decent angle when landing the Doc punch hitbox and now can actually execute the Mario spike when you want to (I hope so, since it's godawful trying to spike with Fair in Brawl/Brawl+ with Fair).

 

[Shell]

@Kaizo & Stingers

I am a Melee Mario Main. Have faith.

 

[Sterowent]

Shanus, I've released a beta of my Fourside stage

There will be a melee sized version in the future, but for now this is the thing

**** yeah! big fan of your work, man

 

[kaizo13]

@shell it's not that i don't have faith. I know for a fact that the hybrid is most likely better, but me personally, I would prefer to see melee vets as they were in Melee

i'm sure thats what alot of ppl look foward to in this project.....playing melee reincarnations

EDIT: i'm not the type to just shoot down ideas without trying them, so maybe if both versions could be made (mario+doc & melee mario) maybe we can come to a decision later on when some sort of public beta comes around

 

[Shell]

The core moves and strategies of Mario are pretty much all still there. You could play him like pure Mario and do well enough. When you start to learn some Doc strategies to mix in, too, you'll do even better. The same is true for the Doc players who just play him like Doc. The combination of the two creates a much richer character... but if you really want a pure nostalgia fix you can just play him like Mario and ignore all of his new options

If you're still concerned, PM me with what aspects of Mario you're so afraid of losing and I'll talk to you about them.

 

[kaizo13]

nah...it's not that big of a deal. I was basically just sharing my thoughts. something like this wouldn't drive me away from the project but still, i'm curious.......could you give me some examples/ situations of these "Doc stratergies"?

EDIT: better yet, what exactly was changed? and how do they prioritize over Marios moves?

 

[Shell]

Tell you what, I will devote a couple "PM Dojo" posts (SmashMods.com) to detailing Mario and his changes. I'll do that this week. Expect pretty pictures.

 

[kaizo13]

sounds good. hope it's not too much of a bother

thx for the replies


EDIT: it would be nice to see some Ganon stuff also
- idk surprise us :3

 

[Dan_X]

@Mewtwo 2000, that map looks amazing!!! Kudos on your excellent work! I'm so excited! I'll try this tomorrow!

Is there any chance you've remade (or are remaking) Hyrule 64?? I'd absolutely love you if you did! :D

 

[Bandit]

Pretty much how I feel as well except I disagree with the part where tripping could/should stay. Whether its useful or not, it just doesn't suit Melee. So, referring back to my original post - I'd like tripping to be gone for good except for Diddy's Bananas (well they could be gone too but Diddy won't be Diddy anymore).

Regarding the bananas, or items in general, can we change the pickup/catch item mechanic into Melee's? Brawl's method makes it too easy.

Have you ever played a Diddy who didn't use bananas? He's still pretty good. Having bananas makes him really good. Having bananas that trip is just silly.

 

[UltiMario]

If they DON'T trip then you'll have to buff them in some way that makes them useful.

 

[Bandit]

Why? It would still be a projectile doing damage on a character that hardly needs them.

 

[Deleted member]

nvm this post