Project M Social Thread

[kaizo13]

i vote for anti-air

 

[metroid1117]

I don't mean to assume that people don't know about parrying, but I went and got the specifics behind it from Shiri's Yoshi Guide:

V. Supershielding

Here we go. This is possibly my most favorite shield technique next to projectile powershielding. Supershielding is a very cheesy name I came up with for a technique that most Yoshi players already know. If I were to describe it in a few words, I'd say this: combine the benefits of both melee and projectile powershielding and you'll get Yoshi's true powershield. I'll explain how it works and why it's so awesome.

When Yoshi goes into his six-frame shielding animation, his body becomes invincible for those six frames. The type of invulnerability he experiences is the type that absorbs attacks (if he were to be hit, he'd experience some freeze frames, but not take any damage or move)...the other type of invincibility almost treats characters as if they were not there (attacks will go right through them with no pause at all). Since Yoshi experiences the former, he can absorb attacks with his shielding animation. If the attack is absorbed on the first two frames, anywhere Yoshi is hit will give you the desired effect. Now, for the other four frames, Yoshi will only absorb the attack if his upper body (chest, neck, and head area) is hit. Since frames three and four activate powershielding, Yoshi cannot absorb attacks with his true shield. Frames five and six also do not yield the proper effects if his true shield is hit.

Please be aware that this technique can only be achieved when the shield trigger is pulled fully; you cannot perform supershields with lightshield input.

Note: Supershielding only achieves the desired effect if Yoshi's upper body is hit. Don't forget that. His head is the easiest to collide with, making this technique fairly easy. The only signal that you've achieved a supershield is seeing the same tiny blue spark that you see with clanking attacks or with shield collisions appear before Yoshi's full shield is up.

If you let go of the shield button immediately, he will only enter full shielding for one frame and then enter his shield-dropping animation. In this time, your enemy will still probably be attacking or experiencing lag from his or her attack. You are now free to punish them in their lag. This works best against strong projectiles that you can't necessarily jab or powershield conveniently (Charge Beam especially), strong slow smashes (Marth, Link, Ganondorf, etc.), and strong slow specials (Spin Attack, Falcon Punch, etc.)--basically any attack that has a decent amount of lag. This works on projectiles, too, but does not reflect them. Instead, they are canceled out with relative ease. Actually, the freeze frames stronger projectiles induce will aid on recognizing the supershield effect quicker for the aspect you'll read about next.

Now, this is pretty useful but you may ask yourself: what's so super about this? Well, let's talk about that. First, there's something important to note. So I'll use these handy notes.

Note: You can only be hit by the same hitbox for an attack once for each time that attack is used. Multiple hitting attacks like drill kicks and punch combos use multiple (and different) hitboxes, so they produce multiple hits.

With that said, let's look at something. Many Yoshi players know that you can jump out of Yoshi's shielding animation at any time. Since Yoshi is so vulnerable during shielding and shield-dropping, I'm not surprised at this addition. Now, let's combine the supershield effect with the fact that we can jump out of the shielding animation. If you were to, say, see a Marth forward smash coming at you, you could try to block it. If you achieve a supershield in attempting to block this attack and realize it in time, you can jump out while Marth's sword is still swinging. Remember, you've already absorbed the hit, so the attack won't hurt you anymore. You can jump right through it if you want. Now we're getting to the super stuff!

Being able to jump means being able to do a lot of things. For one, you can double-jump land into any smash of your choice. Speaking of smashes, you can jump-cancel an upsmash which is great if you manage to supershield from behind or above (very difficult but worth the effort). You can obviously wavedash, too, which is one of the most beneficial aspects of this technique. As you can see, this combines the lack of shield deterioration of melee powershielding with the lack of shield stun and ability to jump of projectile powershielding. I'd say, if anything, that this is Yoshi's truest form of powershielding.

Now you've seen all these advantages to such a cool technique. What are the disadvantages? There have to be some, right? Well, there is only one. Since you can jump out of the shielding animation at any time and the whole time frame for this process is quite quick, it's very easy to jump out before you've absorbed the attack and get hit while meaning to supershield. The only real way to get around this is with enough practice to realize when you've successfully supershielded something. This seems like a very impractical technique to use, but hopefully you'll see, as time goes on that characters like Marth and Samus become very vulnerable when this technique is employed correctly. It takes a lot of time to learn and master, yes. However, I believe it's one of the best things Yoshi has going for him, so I try to do it as often as is practical.

The important things are that Melee Yoshi only has 6 frames to do this, the parried attack must be on the upper-front part of his body, and the player must press the shield trigger all the way down. If only the parry window were expanded, then I think making it 8-10 frames would be understandable (8 is one frame longer than the vulnerability on Falco/Fox/Sheik's Mele spotdodge, 10 is the lag from airdodging into the ground [wavedashing], I think).

 

[Sneak8288]

Yeah lol he is ridiculous, I've had to deal with his shenanigans for almost two years while he has been trying to teach me melee. I'm going to see if I can legitimately beat his yoshi tomorrow.

You guys are in Tennessee now right? If so you should come to the NC tourney this weekend

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Correct my good sir, we'll try but I can't promise anything, sounds snazzy though.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

I wouldn't actually mind delaying it for that.

 

[Anth0ny]

i vote for anti-air

That would actually be kinda amazing.

Scrap his dumb useless neutral b and make it this.

 

[rjgbadger]

When Yoshi eats an item, like a banana peel or a projectile, he could spit the fireballs maybe? sounds hard to code though, swallowing aa samus shot or a spirit bomb

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Remember that Yoshi couldn't eat all projectiles in YI. He's not a red Yoshi, and I don't think it's worth using the FS Fireball projectile when the GFX can't be called out correctly on account of the GFX not being available outside of Final Smash mode.

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

Forgive me if I'm horribly mistaken, but couldn't you make Yoshi be in FS mode so the GFX are available but still be able to access his normal moveset?

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

We can, but it's not worth the resources and time to do so.
Egg Lay is staying people.

Back to the shield now.

 

[JOE!]

is it possible to at least boost the range on egg lay a bit? I mean hell in like every game he's been in his tongue is like 2x to like 20x the length of his body, in smash it's barely bigger than his grab...

that, and more range on the move makes him all the more dangerous and yadda yadda

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

We did that already. >_<
Check Yagi's YT channel.

 

[JOE!]

Looked up both Yoshi Project m and Yagi on youtube...

got vids of CTL playing Yoshi back in like November and vids of Yagi playing on Yoshi's Story/island... nothing recent of Yoshi except for 1 vid in june..

Didnt see much Egg Lay <.<;

How much was the range increased by?

 

[Revven]

Isn't it good enough already that you know its range was increased? You'll find out how long it is at a later time.

 

[Sneak8288]

Gonna be recording tomorrow at this melee/brawl tournament tomorrow. I should get some decent footage

 

[JOE!]

Isn't it good enough already that you know its range was increased? You'll find out how long it is at a later time.

Well yeah, I'm just curious as to like what it's comparable to now

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Just for me...

I personally would take Jump OoS over a larger parry window.

But that's just me.


Unless you're implying he'd lose the parry for a Jump OoS... which would be BS.

 

[shanus]

Just for me...

I personally would take Jump OoS over a larger parry window.

But that's just me.


Unless you're implying he'd lose the parry for a Jump OoS... which would be BS.

so you want a character with a shield which cannot be poked, has an infinitely superior powershield (a la parry), and jump OOS?

I would like to shield camp you all day then.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yoshi's shield can be poked though, from below.

Though honestly I won't necessarily be bothered if he doesn't get Jump OoS... from what I can tell he's amazing right now.


I just really really want it.

 

[Stevo]

Think about it this way.

if his parry is slightly easier to use, there will be less instances of when you are stuck in your shield that you would want to jump out anyway, since you will be parrying attacks that you would normally have been stuck in shield for.

the fact that he has a different looking shield from everybody else should mean, in my mind, that it can work differently.

giving Yoshi jump OoS is a cop out from actually being creative. (imo)

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah, after thinking about it, I'd love that longer parry window.

 

[Juushichi]

Doesn't PM Yoshi have a DJC?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Doesn't he have that optional one that Ness and Lucas and Mewtwo have?

 

[Strong Badam]

yes he has optional DJC

 

[Sneak8288]

Lol I hate trying to use yoshi.. he just feels so ugly in my hands. I don't know how people do it

 

[MaxThunder]

So... uh... is that optional DJC different than DJC in melee?...

Pageclaim for fishing poles and purple gum...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah.

Let the following sentence sink in.

Rising aerials while recovering.

 

[Crooked Crow]

That would actually be kinda amazing.

Scrap his dumb useless neutral b and make it this.

Aside from DJC egg lay shenanigans, and whether that potential will be further extrapolated in Project Melee, this sounds like a great idea. I would love a fireball anti-aerial neutral B.

 

[Stevo]

why get rid of his egg-lay, Yoshi's SIGNATURE MOVE, when there is a side-b that does nothing useful except now give him his second jump back while recovering.

if any B move should be changed/reworked it should be egg-roll thing. I am not saying it should be though

I'm jus sayin

(projectiles like that fireball would actually make sense as a forward-b too, so you guys should really argue for that)

 

[slimpyman]

Lol I hate trying to use yoshi.. he just feels so ugly in my hands. I don't know how people do it

i know what you mean... i mean when i played him in may, i immediately was thrown off by his PAL physics. i mean aside from that, he feels like a burlap sack of potatos. I really cant wait to play with him a bit more. his egg lay sticky tongue is definitely nice. add in the fact you can use eggthrow for recovery, and i definitely see alot more people using yoshi. BTW, he doesnt need jump oos. hes already best ever.

on a side note... you know what would make yoshi beastly over the ledge? when he grabs, give him properties like kirby to walk around, or walk off the ledge. haha imagine that. grab, walk off, and when they break out, you dj, and fair someone, and soak up their attack with your super armor. 2 good. bwahaha

 

[Strong Badam]

PAL physics? the only thing changed is his weight, which would only affect his survivability.

 

[Stevo]

the only thing you would have to get used to is optional DJC, which is not in PAL, obviously.

 

[slimpyman]

PAL physics? the only thing changed is his weight, which would only affect his survivability.

i dont know.... he felt like a damn paperweight. not like im complaining. he felt buttery smooth like a stick of melted butter though.

 

[kaizo13]

if any B move should be changed/reworked it should be egg-roll thing.

....does nothing useful now except give him his second jump back while recovering.

it actually has more use than just that. Especially now that the PMBR gave it little to no start-up/endlag allowing for follow ups and quick chasing

 

[Stevo]

oh ok, well that means it WAS reworked, which I didn't know.

my point still stands that it should be the one that is worked with, if any. Assuming the brawl down-b was kept. When you think yoshi you think, egg-lay, egg throw, ground pound as special moves first and foremost.

 

[Revven]

Can't create projectiles tho doods, remember that.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Yes, but people wanted to use the Final Smash fireball(LOL), which is possible but you won't see GFX outside of FS.

The fire spurts that occur when you don't shoot fireballs is also an article in the style of Blizzard.....
Once again, usbale outside of FS mode, not visible.

 

[Anth0ny]

Can't create projectiles tho doods, remember that.

Can't create projectiles YET.

I'm convinced that if you can solve landing detection, you can solve anything.

Regardless, I really think Yoshi needs some pretty major tweaks. I mean, he's stayed consistent move set wise for all 3 Smash games... and he's been low tier in all 3. His neutral B is completely useless, his side b is completely useless (at least make it like jiggs' rollout or something, even then it's pretty terrible), his down b is pretty horrible as it is in melee/brawl, his up b is bad too.

Now I haven't been following super closely to Yoshi's progress, so I'm sure that some of these issues have been touched on/resolved, but I'm just saying. I don't think you guys should be shy with changes when it comes to Yoshi. He needs all the help he could get.

 

[Strong Badam]

k thanks for your concern

 

[Anth0ny]

k thanks for your concern

make yoshi better than fox