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Project M Social Thread Gold
- Thread starter Project M
- Start date
Vashimus
Smash Master
Call me slow, but I had to read this like 10 times and still couldn't get it. Balanced way higher? What does that even mean?
PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP
Hologram Summer Again
Orochi akuma can suck a **** **** I thought marrow was going to win.
damn I'm salty
damn I'm salty
Pwnz0rz Man
Smash Lord
I couldn't understand it either, considering Marvel is one of the least balanced competitively played games. It seems a lot like the same logic that they use for it being perfectly fine in MVC2 that the amount of competitively viable characters can be counted on one and a half hands, made even worse when you realize that it's a 3x3 game.
I'm not certain about MVC3, but even if it does have a little better balance than MVC2, it probably isn't that balanced all the same.
!!!! META KNIGHT PLAYER META KNIGHT PLAYER WEE OOO WEE OOO WEE OOO
makes siren noises, physically glues eyes to the screen
e: oooooh wait I never... actually thought to use fsmash for anything punishable on shield like at 1:00. I am learning today
I'll be stealing this for the top players thread.
Vashimus
Smash Master
Now Meta Knight won't be as lonely on the "Top Players by Character" thread. Now for Pikachu....eventually.
I should probably wait before doing any kind of speculating on any specific changes but at the same time I am a fan of a thing on the internet, thus I should be flipping the **** out, QED
SO HOW ABOUT THAT CHANGED BATTLEFIELD FILE, MAYBE THERE'S A 1/1000 CHANCE FOR THE STAGE TO CATCH FIRE
SO HOW ABOUT THAT CHANGED BATTLEFIELD FILE, MAYBE THERE'S A 1/1000 CHANCE FOR THE STAGE TO CATCH FIRE
Oracle
Smash Master
Did my set with dsf not get recorded? 
gaarasgord
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2009
- Messages
- 12
Hey I live in Philly when not in school but ill be in bloomsburg pa for fall can is anyone around either of these areas and play
15 minutes until the police force has to mobilize.
ElDominio
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2009
- Messages
- 452
This, this this and a million times this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOtN_kMTnxQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOtN_kMTnxQ
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
AbstractLogic
Smash Journeyman
The patch should have been called 2.06 just for sonic
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
This. Is. The. GREATEST. ****. OF ALL TIME!
Did my set with dsf not get recorded?
I would imagine it did, that set was insane. I just doubt it's uploaded yet.
The_NZA
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2007
- Messages
- 1,979
I wish Mango played metaknight...That would just be so perfect. Imagine Mango v. Armada, Metaknight v. Pit.
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Changelog is available in the Demo thread, get at it
leelue
Smash Lord
I'm actually surprised that you think that. I wasn't excited by much.
Which upsets me because I idolized him and his crew back in 06-07
"Gather the faithful and propose a toast... to the epoch of indifference..."
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Not all day 1 sets were split yet. Reflex said he would get to them after he got back home.
B.W.
Smash Champion
Oro, you're made of magic right? Fix my car so we can play 2.6 again.
Mr.Jackpot
Smash Lord
Funny video with the usual cringe-worthy Fox whining from these boards.
You didn't see all of his matches/play him haha. I'm not saying he's the best, just the best I've seen. His matches against other players look pretty different than the ones against me for the most part.
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
Balanced higher means that the characters are balanced at a point to where their bottom tiers are still better than most other fighting game top tiers, as a way of putting it.
I meant Marvel 3 (probably should've said that because people are making MvC2 excuses), and it is balanced way better. Marvel 2 was an accident just like Melee was, and had about as many viable characters as Melee did (which is pretty bad considering the cast was twice the size lol). Marvel 3 actually had real effort put into it from a competitive standpoint, there's a pretty defined top tier, but most of the cast is still really good. It's a game that's balanced really high, and it's not a huge rushdown slugfest all the time either, MorDoom being an infamous duo to do the exact opposite. Shuma is even a character considered to be pretty bad an he was on Angelic's team who got third at EVO. I understand the concept 3 characters can balance out 1 bad character more than 1v1, but just remember the other player can use 3 top tiers just as much as Fox vs Bowser or something can happen in Melee. You still put yourself at a general disadvantage. If a character that's much closer to the bottom of the tier list than the top can get to top 3 at EVO, I'd say that's more balanced than Melee.
The same concept exists in many other games, you can balance high without detracting from diversity gameplay. It's probably EASIER than trying to balance to more reasonable levels because making characters with extremes are generally more black and white to put together than characters that are very average with less potent defining qualities.
A good smash related example is how damned good Jiggs and Peach are, very slow for Melee in general, but they're top tiers. The game doesn't devolve into everyone has a shine fest to be S-B tier. Melee already proved that. There's isn't any more reason you can tell people to adapt to Fox, Falco, or Sheik changes as compared to letting people not have to adapt to Lucario, Ike, or Sonic.
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Wow, this is the first time I saw someone call Marvel 3 balanced...
I'm kinda uh... Not sure how to respond.
I'm kinda uh... Not sure how to respond.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
I've never heard Shuma considered bad, just very difficult/technical.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
There's a difference between "underdeveloped" and "bad," Ulti.
Also, Marvel is a totally different animal. Comparing balance with that and the balance inherent in more traditional fighters is damn near close to apples and oranges.
Smooth Criminal
Also, Marvel is a totally different animal. Comparing balance with that and the balance inherent in more traditional fighters is damn near close to apples and oranges.
Smooth Criminal
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
He's still considered in the bottom half of the game.
And I used "pretty bad" kinda loosely, admittedly. It'd be like saying Mario is "pretty bad" but that's kinda how much more balanced Marvel 3 is, even most of the relatively bad characters are still pretty good. There's still the garbage at the bottom of the bin (like Iron Fist and ****) but in general it's way more balanced than people give it credit for.
I'm just saying you can balance really high and you can make a very well rounded cast. Marvel did it. Anime fighters do it. Project M can do it. You don't need to water down S and A tier characters because all the buffed vets and Brawl characters aren't as good as the Melee top tiers. You need to put them up there with them and KEEP them up there with them. We've had 3 characters so far that were small tweaks from perfectly balanced and all of those were thrown away. It's just completely backwards ideology vs just making everyone good.
Everyone is happy when their character is good. Some people are NOT happy if their character is purposely made worse. One ideal makes top Melee players happy, the other doesn't. There wouldn't be people whining about characters like (properly tweaked) 2.1 Ike/Lucario and 2.5 Sonic, or spacies, if their characters were just as good as well. The game is balanced either way it's put together.
I just can't see the reasons for balancing down from Melee when there isn't really a real advantage to it.
And I used "pretty bad" kinda loosely, admittedly. It'd be like saying Mario is "pretty bad" but that's kinda how much more balanced Marvel 3 is, even most of the relatively bad characters are still pretty good. There's still the garbage at the bottom of the bin (like Iron Fist and ****) but in general it's way more balanced than people give it credit for.
I'm just saying you can balance really high and you can make a very well rounded cast. Marvel did it. Anime fighters do it. Project M can do it. You don't need to water down S and A tier characters because all the buffed vets and Brawl characters aren't as good as the Melee top tiers. You need to put them up there with them and KEEP them up there with them. We've had 3 characters so far that were small tweaks from perfectly balanced and all of those were thrown away. It's just completely backwards ideology vs just making everyone good.
Everyone is happy when their character is good. Some people are NOT happy if their character is purposely made worse. One ideal makes top Melee players happy, the other doesn't. There wouldn't be people whining about characters like (properly tweaked) 2.1 Ike/Lucario and 2.5 Sonic, or spacies, if their characters were just as good as well. The game is balanced either way it's put together.
I just can't see the reasons for balancing down from Melee when there isn't really a real advantage to it.
Pwnz0rz Man
Smash Lord
Is Melee poorly balanced because the characters at the bottom are terrible (Partially) or because the characters at the top are so overpowering in comparison that there's very little that anyone below them can do? You essentially make the argument that Melee is unbalanced and yet you're against any level of changing the top tiers to make them more reasonable characters. Why is it unreasonable to remove 1 frame invincibility from characters that can not only defend with, but attack and completely reverse the flow of battle with it?
As with your Marvel 3 example, this game is too changing and being re-tooled, rebalanced as time goes on. That includes nerfs to characters that might have been made too powerful from a previous patch. I would argue that Marvel 3, being a game that has updates and can be connected to the internet, receives balance patches from time to time, and if those in charge of these tweaks find something that they believe to be unacceptable, they will change it so that it is made acceptable.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
Actually, Pwn, UMvC3 has received one patch so far, and that was wayyyyyyy early on in the game's lifecycle (within about a week and a half of release, iirc). The only thing it adjusted was the invincibility on one of Phoenix Wright's assists during Turnabout Mode (as in, completely took away its invincible properties), and it gave Chris the ability to cancel his flamethrower into launcher/other specials. Capcom has also formally announced that they have no plans on revisiting the game, as the lion's share of the original team went to work on other projects for the company, and Marvel is stingy with renewing their licenses (supposedly).
Just throwing that out there.
Smooth Criminal
Just throwing that out there.
Smooth Criminal
Pwnz0rz Man
Smash Lord
Fair enough, perhaps using Marvel as my example was the wrong choice, they had the ability to patch it, I guess they just either didn't want to or couldn't. I do know that they have released a few patches to SSF4 so far, what with their patch to Arcade Edition, and Ultra's likely balance adjustments so perhaps that's a better comparison.
Smooth Criminal
Da Cheef
The biggest question I have in mind is this:
Ulti, name one anime fighter that has "balanced from the top." I hate being that guy, but I can tell you right now, most of your successful anime fighters tweak the engine around more than anything else, and then they balance the characters around that.
Smooth Criminal
Ulti, name one anime fighter that has "balanced from the top." I hate being that guy, but I can tell you right now, most of your successful anime fighters tweak the engine around more than anything else, and then they balance the characters around that.
Smooth Criminal
CyberZixx
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 1,189
To me Fox and Falco's design are perfectly fine in melee but not in Project M. This is because in melee the top 8 characters while being clearly the best have a fantastic balance in relation to each other. Making for very layered and complex match ups. Many characters in that game are just poorly designed and can't compete compared to them. That is just a accepted rule of the game.
Thing is Project M is more balanced overall and does not have those characters that stand above the rest. So to me Spacies feel more out of place in their power level. All other character are getting balanced to fit in conjuction to one another and tweaked to be the best designed versions of that character possible. Spacies should not be exempt from that process. To me to make them the best versions for the game they would be changed in such a way as to make them worse.
Thing is Project M is more balanced overall and does not have those characters that stand above the rest. So to me Spacies feel more out of place in their power level. All other character are getting balanced to fit in conjuction to one another and tweaked to be the best designed versions of that character possible. Spacies should not be exempt from that process. To me to make them the best versions for the game they would be changed in such a way as to make them worse.
Kaye Cruiser
Waveshocker Sigma
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,032
- NNID
- KayeCruiser
- Switch FC
- 0740-7501-7043
I love how this fully describes how I feel about 2.6 as a whole. XD
MysteryRevengerson
IT'S A MYSTERY TO ALL
Of course it gets used but probably not as often as directional dodges. The best part about having a neutral dodge is simply the fact that you DO have, it can hold you in one spot to avoid an attack for a different amount of time compared ANY OTHER DIRECTION. Besides, it just would feel smooth if neutral did that.