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Pres. Bush calls "crisis meeting" over $700B bailout (hijacked by Libertarians)

Deathcarter

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Thank God that there are some politicians with some sense. The economy is going to collapse, it is inevitable. What the government needs to do is set the stage on what is and what isn't appropriate and get out of the way. Let the economy build itself back up even if that means harder times ahead.

Though knowing the government has too many stakes involved with the Wall street giants, they won't have the sense to not get involved. ****.
 

LegionBrawler

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I want to know how this is going to effect my life. I'm 14 will I be able to go to college? Get a job? Take care of myself and my family? Why am I paying for another generations greed and mistakes? I doubt I will have money for gaming if something equal near or greater than the great depression.
 

The Executive

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Lucky you, Mic/Tom. I have $300 to live on if the economy tanks.

Why is Nancy Pelosi and her gang acting like the failure of this bill was all due to Republicans? There was a fairly large number of Democrats who shot it down too. May have had different reasons, but they still shot it down.
 

slave1

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come on sucker lick my battery
I want to know how this is going to effect my life. I'm 14 will I be able to go to college? Get a job? Take care of myself and my family? Why am I paying for another generations greed and mistakes? I doubt I will have money for gaming if something equal near or greater than the great depression.
i am kinda in the same boat. except i am in college and i need a loan for next semester. :(

sense it is from the government it might be ok. but if it is not. who knows if i will be getting anything. so i could be in a bad situation here in three months
 

RDK

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Messages
6,390
Lucky you, Mic/Tom. I have $300 to live on if the economy tanks.

Why is Nancy Pelosi and her gang acting like the failure of this bill was all due to Republicans? There was a fairly large number of Democrats who shot it down too. May have had different reasons, but they still shot it down.
Nancy Pelosi is an idiot who needs to jump off a cliff. And she also eats babies.

And who cares whose "fault" it was that the bill didn't pass? The point is that it did, which is good. The bill was a ridiculous attempt to patch up a enormous economic problem that Bush and the Republicans started, or at least instigated. The only problem is that the bill suggested doing exactly the opposite of what we should normally do. Pelosi's reasoning is beyond me.
 

Engel

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not TSK

And who cares whose "fault" it was that the bill didn't pass?

Considering how the Democrats are making a fuss that it's the Republicans fault, I think we should care. We should care to note that if the top democrats like Pelosi thought this bill needed to pass then they should have rallied THEIR OWN PARTY TO PASS THIS BILL IN SPITE OF THE REPUBLICANS. The democrats didn't really need the republicans at all if they wanted to pass the bill so their blame of the repulicans just shows how big of failures some of them are.

It's also funny how in previous years republicans (including McCain and Bush) tried to start up bills to better regulate things like fannie mae and freddie mac but the democrats repeatedly shot them down claiming crap like "oh it's not broke don't fix it". Yet now the democrats place all the blame on republicans >_>

In 2003, the Bush Administration sought to create an agency to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. While Senate and House leaders voiced their intention to bring about the needed legislation, no reform bills materialized. A Senate reform bill introduced by Senator John Corzine (S.1656) never made it out of committee. At the time members of congress expressed faith in the solvency of Fannie and Freddie. Congressman Barney Frank, for example, described them as "not facing any kind of financial crisis."

In 2005, the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act, co-sponsored by Senators Chuck Hegel, John McCain, Elizabeth Dole and John Sununu, would have increased government oversight of loans given by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Like the 2003 bill, it too died in committee. A full and accurate record of the congressional attempts to regulate the housing GSEs is given in the Congressional record prepared in 2005. Many attempts were made with only minor results
(quote from wikipedia because I'm lazy >_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac)
 

RDK

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Considering how the Democrats are making a fuss that it's the Republicans fault, I think we should care. We should care to note that if the top democrats like Pelosi thought this bill needed to pass then they should have rallied THEIR OWN PARTY TO PASS THIS BILL IN SPITE OF THE REPUBLICANS. The democrats didn't really need the republicans at all if they wanted to pass the bill so their blame of the repulicans just shows how big of failures some of them are.

It's also funny how in previous years republicans (including McCain and Bush) tried to start up bills to better regulate things like fannie mae and freddie mac but the democrats repeatedly shot them down claiming crap like "oh it's not broke don't fix it". Yet now the democrats place all the blame on republicans >_?
The problem is that when Congress, the Senate, and the House are split between them that close, nothing ever gets passed short of a miracle. Because of this, whoever came up with the bill only to see it fail in Congress automatically blames the other party for not cooperating.

Fact is, it's everybody's fault. It was a stupid idea in the first place, and Nancy Pelosi is an idiot for advocating it.
 

Engel

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Well it's clear the bill failed because it sucked but I'm just trying to say that it's completely ridiculous for any democrat to try and pass the blame to republicans when the republicans weren't needed at all for the bill to pass. It annoys me because some people will blindly believe the democrats (lol listening to the radio at some commentors >_< )
 

Darkslash

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Congratulations. You win our debt. Ask some other people who know FF7 to help you with it. (I'll get you started. bad idea: burn our life energy.)
Ehh what? Thing was that i was comparing Shin-ra to bush in a sense that they thought they could fix every thing with money. Ohh well thank god i live in Canuck Land where this may affect us slightly.
 

thesage

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The government of Iceland just bought out the bank of Iceland. I think it's going to affect a lot of people. Especially Canada, who's economy is pretty dependent on other economies.
 

KishPrime

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This is certainly not the fault of Republicans as a party. It's easier to blame the Democrats when you look at the real facts. They were lauded for defending Fannie and Freddie 3 years ago when Republicans tried to reform them.

But the simple fact is both parties let it slide, and thus are both stupid. The other simple fact is that some banks in the past few years have already gotten rid of the "toxic assets" that the government claims they need to buy. Yes, they sold them for 22 cents on the dollar. That's business. But other banks are now holding onto them because the government will probably pay them 60-80 cents on the dollar with this plan. They're just waiting it out.

I approve of this plan that was posted earlier in the thread: http://www.daveramsey.com/media/pdf/the_common_sense_fix.pdf

Subprime loans were banks' way of sustaining the big money they made during the dot-com boom. They would have worked if house prices kept going up, but this is a stupid assumption. Nothing goes up forever, and the huge number of new buyers eventually ran out, causing prices to fall. When prices fall, you can't refinance, and most subprime loans were built assuming that they would refinance because they could not afford the rates they were given.

The Mark-to-Market rules are creating a huge issue that is totally unnecessary and changing that would've avoided most of this trouble. Because no one can sell these mortgages, they have no value, even though they technically do have value, and it is messing with bank's abilities to carry enough value. A change here stabilizes the system big-time. It's complicated.

Taxes are the single biggest impediment to investment. Get rid of taxes short-term and we will see growth that no one has ever seen before, basically solving the crisis on it's own.

We can choose. This plan? Or a 700 billion expenditure of taxpayer (our) money that increases inflation and has no guarantee of success.

Sigh.
 

1048576

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If we cut taxes, there'll just be more inflation. People are starting to recognize that our dollar is worthless. Raise taxes, cut our debt, and it'll really hurt initially, but it'll be okay when bread doesn't cost $4.00 anymore.
 

Crimson King

I am become death
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The only way to fix this is, yes, raise taxes, cut expenses for a while. After some time, this will not be needed and we can cut taxes. It's ridiculous that they think throwing money out of nowhere will fix this.
 

KishPrime

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Can you link to an economist that actually says that raising taxes will help the situation?

I haven't seen that at all.

Obviously our government needs to cut expenses, but they will not ever do that until people finally demand it.
 

GreenKirby

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Can you link to an economist that actually says that raising taxes will help the situation?
The upper and middle class had their taxes raised during the Clinton years and the economy was just great.

And we all know how cutting taxes did so well for us. What with China buying our debts and all. >_>
 

McFox

Spread the Love
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Ah, the political musings of teenagers. Truly, this is where the government should turn for solutions. :p

*DISCLAIMER* Not like I'm a political genius.
 

1048576

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Can you link to an economist that actually says that raising taxes will help the situation?

I haven't seen that at all.

Obviously our government needs to cut expenses, but they will not ever do that until people finally demand it.
Cutting spending is pretty similar to raising taxes.
 

thesage

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Cutting spending is pretty similar to raising taxes.
No, it isn't at all.

Raising taxes means people have less money to spend, but the government gets more money to spend. Cutting spending means the government provides less services to its people.

Is there any pork barreling going on in the bailout act? I've heard it's a lot but I would like to see a reliable resource say it.
 

LinkSpecialist

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I don't know if this may or may not be off topic, but has anyone ever heard of Lyndon Larouche? This guy saw this coming a mile away, and had a plan and everything to help try and save the bank and homes.

Here's one of his sites.
http://www.larouchepac.com/


Here's a video he posted a couple of months ago.

http://www.larouchepac.com/firewall

I don't really know what really going on...I wish I wasn't so simple minded.
 

NES n00b

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The upper and middle class had their taxes raised during the Clinton years and the economy was just great.

And we all know how cutting taxes did so well for us. What with China buying our debts and all. >_>
People can't pay for their homes and many people struggle to pay for their homes and everything else. Solution = we tax people who can barely pay for their homes to the government of which of course they will waste. AWESOME SAUCE.

I am glad no one learned **** from the great depression.
 

OmegaXXII

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Solution = we tax people who can barely pay for their homes to the government of which of course they will waste. AWESOME SAUCE.

I am glad no one learned **** from the great depression.
yea, and the worst part is that no one has learned a thing from the economy past mistake which is why the nation is like this today.

anyway a solution to this would have been if Bush had helped out the struggling people with with homes, that way those people wouldn't even go near those banks since those people would have been getting government aid, but sadly, his poor decisions are what caused this decline in the economy which has been the worst ever since the vietnam war.
 

1048576

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No, it isn't at all.

Raising taxes means people have less money to spend, but the government gets more money to spend. Cutting spending means the government provides less services to its people.

Is there any pork barreling going on in the bailout act? I've heard it's a lot but I would like to see a reliable resource say it.
Either way, the govt. has money and the people don't.
 

Dodongo

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Well the house just passed the bill, so we're going to stretch about 6 months worth of economic hardship over the next several years, all thanks to a congress that doesn't know **** about economics.
 

thesage

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While I don't agree with passing the bailout plan, we do not actually know how far the problem extends. Imagine if every single bank collapsed. Barely anybody would be able to go to college. I heard about a girl who had to go back home after her first day of college cuz the scholarship fund she used to pay for it could not give her money as their bank went under.
 

Deathcarter

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I bet their was some major pork added to the bill. NO sensible person changes their mind at the last second. We know that Congress will take this money mostly from the lower and middle portions of the upper class (I doubt they would harm the precious super rich cohorts) and that will ultimately cost jobs for the middle class since the upper class has to recouperate their losses.



EVERYONE needs to vote for a third party at this point. I am ****ing tired of these same politics happening over and over again in Washington.
 

Mini Mic

Taller than Mic_128
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Well the house just passed the bill, so we're going to stretch about 6 months worth of economic hardship over the next several years, all thanks to a congress that doesn't know **** about economics.
Agreed, hey why don't they just raise tariffs again so people only buy American goods? That worked great in the depression after all.
 

Crimson King

I am become death
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Can you link to an economist that actually says that raising taxes will help the situation?

I haven't seen that at all.

Obviously our government needs to cut expenses, but they will not ever do that until people finally demand it.
The best allusion is think of a family who is broke and in debt. In order to fix that debt, they have to cut expenses and take on more jobs. Sadly, the only way the US can really get jobs is by increasing taxes. We have dug ourselves so far down that to completely cut taxes now, and I think we should completely cut taxes anyway, would not help our large debt quick enough. Once we recover from the debt, we HAVE to stop spending freely as we do and focus on stimulating the economy. Let the market take care of prices and everything else, because the government intervening is clearly not helping.
 

link1212

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
19
I think the CEOs of these companies should pay for their OWN mistakes.

They shouldn't have let their greed get the best of them. After giving loans to people who know can't pay it back if they tried. And I'm sure the CEOs have the money.
i would love too agree with you and as a matter of fact i would really love that the veto stayed but freddie mac and the other one where importaint but the thing is we shouldn't have let it get that importaint
 
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