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Also, I think that Falco will take priority over Wolf due simply to Bombsoldier's excessive skill with him. Will Nintendo really base such a large decision on one player alone? I think it's not so farfetched considering how prestigious BombSoldier is in the SSBM community. I won't brush it aside as unfeasible.
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I weigh twice as much as you
And I look good on the barbecue
Yogurt, curd, cream cheese and butters
Made from liquid from my udders
I am cow, I am cow, hear me moo (moo)
I am cow, eating grass
Methane gas comes out my ***
And out my muzzle when I belch
Oh, the ozone layer is thinner
From the outcome of my dinner
I am cow, I am cow, Ive got gas
I am cow, here I stand
Far and wide upon this land
And I am living everywhere
From b.c. to newfoundland
You can squeeze my teats by hand
I am cow, I am cow, I am cow
I am cow, I am cow, I am cow!
Only the ones that don't want Midna to be playable will be happy.
It's kinda weird. I'm having this exact same debate with a bunch of guys on the GameFAQs. The only arguments they're offering are all opinion based. One guy is even saying that Tetra > Midna in importance. He's saying that the entire cast of the Cel-Zelda games will get into Brawl before Midna...
He kept accusing me of claiming that Wolf Link was more important than Young Link and continuously stated that he didn't think I was defending Midna and that that was a disguise for me defending Wolf Link...
I left because I couldn't think stright because I was laughing so much (and I have to leave for work in a few minutes.)
that just confirms that GameFAQers refuse to listen to logic.
I would love to see Midna as a playable character, but I'm really not sure how likely it is. I have a feeling she may end up as an assistant either way since they did add the AT in.
The only reason I doubt it is because of how many Zelda characters Sakurai has already added..and he can't add everyone, even the ones that a lot of people like. =[ I believe that is the point of the Assist Trophies.
And don't fuss please, I'm not bashing the idea. I would be over joyed to be able to control Midna. She is absolutely one of my favorite LoZ characters..but this is just how I see it.
It's kinda weird. I'm having this exact same debate with a bunch of guys on the GameFAQs. The only arguments they're offering are all opinion based. One guy is even saying that Tetra > Midna in importance. He's saying that the entire cast of the Cel-Zelda games will get into Brawl before Midna...
He kept accusing me of claiming that Wolf Link was more important than Young Link and continuously stated that he didn't think I was defending Midna and that that was a disguise for me defending Wolf Link...
There's no point in defending either one over the other. They're both Link, just represented differently. That guy you were talking to wasn't the brightest.
Also, Wolf Link is to Twilight Princess, what Tetra is to Wind Waker. They're another form of a pivotal character in the series.
At the very least, the models used for Link and Zelda in addition to this new stage suggest that we'll see a greater emphasis on Twilight Princess content over all other Zelda games. That bodes well for Midna.
Indeed. I like large, flat stages (corneria, Final Destination, etc) with the odd stage hazzard to keep things interesting. And I must say, this stage could be the most visually stunning one yet.
Well, I think Whispy Woods has been over-done to hell and back. The challenge is to find out where the next best place is. We already know that Metaknight's stage is aboard his ship, Halberd. That leaves us with a stage for Kirby and possibly one for Dedede.
My guess for Kirby's: Float Islands: Two island platforms separated by a river tertiary. Different kinds of watercraft ranging from rowboats to a giant ship will periodically dock between them, providing a variety of additional platforms to fight on. As the boats dock, crew members (consisting of various generic Kirby enemies) will dump barrels, boxes, and planks into the water, leaving some unstable 'ground' to walk on when there are no ships parked there. Falling off of either side of the level (or between the islands) will lead to a watery grave.
My guess for King Dedede: Mount Dedede: Gazing high into the sky, beyond the clouds, you spot a castle perched on a mountain top. Players start on the castle roof. There are small, rocky ledges (at the base of the castle) that players can stand on for a short time before the ground gives away, sending all fighters who lie in wait down a deadly mudslide. Weather ranges from gusty winds that can blast foes off ledges, to dense fog that hinders sight.
If onlt four Zelda characters make it, then yeah. But if they decide to include another character from the series in addition to Link, Zelda, Ganondorf and Young Link - then Midna will most likely me that character.
How about something from The World of Drawcia (last stage in Canvas Curse)? You could have chaotic paint effects going off, Drawcia attacking with minions, etc.
As for Amazing Mirror, I'm thinking either Candy Constellation's boss stage (where you fight Master Hand and Crazy Hand; yes, you heard me right), or the area where you fight Sauron Dark Mind.
Also, I think that Falco will take priority over Wolf due simply to Bombsoldier's excessive skill with him. Will Nintendo really base such a large decision on one player alone? I think it's not so farfetched considering how prestigious BombSoldier is in the SSBM community. I won't brush it aside as unfeasible.
Hate to break it to you, but Sakurai doesn't care about keeping every single player happy, regardless of how skilled they are. He will make the game as he sees fit, and that may very well mean that Falco is replaced by Wolf.
Hehe.. I was wondering when someone would comment on that.
I wish I could take credit for it, but it is actually the lyrics to the immortal song "I Am Cow!!!" by the Canadian band: the Arrogant Worms. Give it a listen:
It's kinda weird. I'm having this exact same debate with a bunch of guys on the GameFAQs. The only arguments they're offering are all opinion based. One guy is even saying that Tetra > Midna in importance. He's saying that the entire cast of the Cel-Zelda games will get into Brawl before Midna...
He kept accusing me of claiming that Wolf Link was more important than Young Link and continuously stated that he didn't think I was defending Midna and that that was a disguise for me defending Wolf Link...
I left because I couldn't think stright because I was laughing so much (and I have to leave for work in a few minutes.)
that just confirms that GameFAQers refuse to listen to logic.
I would love to see Midna as a playable character, but I'm really not sure how likely it is. I have a feeling she may end up as an assistant either way since they did add the AT in.
The only reason I doubt it is because of how many Zelda characters Sakurai has already added..and he can't add everyone, even the ones that a lot of people like. =[ I believe that is the point of the Assist Trophies.
And don't fuss please, I'm not bashing the idea. I would be over joyed to be able to control Midna. She is absolutely one of my favorite LoZ characters..but this is just how I see it.
Keep in mind that there were 5 Zelda characters in Melee (Link, Young Link, Ganondorf, Zelda and Sheik) so if you update the appearances of Triforce Trio in TP style, Windwakerize Young Link and cut Sheik you have one spot up for grabs. Considering the originality that Midna would bring to the roster and her importance in the most recent Zelda game I think she stands an excellent shot of being Sheik's replacement (though she obviously wouldn't be Zelda's transformation.)
Well, I ould argue that while Tetra was just a supporting character Midna was the main focu of the Twilight Princess story. I would argue that Tetra was probably the most interesting Zelda (TP Zelda was just a pretty face with little personality or character development...) but since we already have one Zelda I'm not sure there is room for another.
There's no point in defending either one over the other. They're both Link, just represented differently. That guy you were talking to wasn't the brightest.
Also, Wolf Link is to Twilight Princess, what Tetra is to Wind Waker. They're another form of a pivotal character in the series.
that vid is well done because it's an actual game you download it into your pc and then you can download or find characters created by people with that game you could literally have over 1500 characters it's called M.U.G.E.N Here's an example of the variety of characters
that vid is well done because it's an actual game you download it into your pc and then you can download or find characters created by people with that game you could literally have over 1500 characters it's called M.U.G.E.N Here's an example of the variety of characters
Yeah,that place is awesome to watch on Youtube! I don't know how to download the game,though. That place is crazy,I once Saw Captain Caveman beat Wolverine on there once.
At the very least, the models used for Link and Zelda in addition to this new stage suggest that we'll see a greater emphasis on Twilight Princess content over all other Zelda games. That bodes well for Midna.
They could still pull a fast one on us and have Ganondorf and Young Link in WW style and have a WW and LA style stage...<_< Maybe not Ganondorf; his TP style's too sexy. His WW swords are sexy, too.
I think it'd be kinda funny if they revealed Captain Falcon on the site and he has different proportions than the last and we compare him to TP Ganondorf's and they're the same. That'd be crazy.
Better times. (Release this game on the VC, Nintendo!!!)
Also, here's a stage idea:
Mount Tamaranch (from Link's Awakening)- Largely standard stage with a nice platform layout (some natural rock formations and others, including a part that covers the main platform, would be wood. The wooden platforms would all be visibly connected.) made all the better with an awesome theme song. After awhile, an earthquake will occur and the mountain will disappear in a puff of smoke and the characters and the wooden parts of the stage will be sent falling into the ocean below. Soon after the main platform hits the water, the Windfish will rise from the ocean's depths and leap up with the platforms on it's back high up into the sky. The Windfish will then disappear after awhile and the platforms and characters will fall back down to the reappeared mountain. Kind of comlex, I know, but it'd just be kinda like Lylat cruise with (probably) more predictable hazaards and the terrain would change a little. Anyway, LA's just too awesome to ignore forever. :/
Sure, Wiseguy, I've got no problem with you using stuff from my posts . . . ever. Pretty much all of the ideas I pour into this thread are just for the sake of discussion. Chop-shop my posts to your heart's content.
Mount Tamaranch (from Link's Awakening)- Largely standard stage with a nice platform layout (some natural rock formations and others, including a part that covers the main platform, would be wood. The wooden platforms would all be visibly connected.) made all the better with an awesome theme song. After awhile, an earthquake will occur and the mountain will disappear in a puff of smoke and the characters and the wooden parts of the stage will be sent falling into the ocean below. Soon after the main platform hits the water, the Windfish will rise from the ocean's depths and leap up with the platforms on it's back high up into the sky. The Windfish will then disappear after awhile and the platforms and characters will fall back down to the reappeared mountain. Kind of comlex, I know, but it'd just be kinda like Lylat cruise with (probably) more predictable hazaards and the terrain would change a little. Anyway, LA's just too awesome to ignore forever. :/
Yup. Not only were the two hands a full boss in CC, but in various other areas, Master Hand appeared alone as a miniboss. He fought like you'd expect, punches, slaps, bullets (which, when swallowed, gave you Missile power) and swallowing him gave you the Smash Bros. Power.
A relatively small update today. I just posted some of the stage ideas that you fine folks came up with. Tomorrow, expect a lengthy update to my Assist Trophy list.
Thanks. I'm quite pleased with how long this thread has lasted. I'll be kinda bummed when Braw comes out, and I'll have post on threads with a ridgedly enforced topic again.
that vid is well done because it's an actual game you download it into your pc and then you can download or find characters created by people with that game you could literally have over 1500 characters it's called M.U.G.E.N Here's an example of the variety of characters
Yeah,that place is awesome to watch on Youtube! I don't know how to download the game,though. That place is crazy,I once Saw Captain Caveman beat Wolverine on there once.
They could still pull a fast one on us and have Ganondorf and Young Link in WW style and have a WW and LA style stage...<_< Maybe not Ganondorf; his TP style's too sexy. His WW swords are sexy, too.
I think it'd be kinda funny if they revealed Captain Falcon on the site and he has different proportions than the last and we compare him to TP Ganondorf's and they're the same. That'd be crazy.
You've heard right, Wiseguy. It's a direct sequel to LTTP. If you can score a copy it's definitely worth a playthrough (but barring the CDi ones, what LoZ hasn't been worth playing?).
I think that Dr. Stewart from the F-Zero franchise should be an assist trophy since he is another member of the original four. He could heal you when he appears since he is a doctor after all.
You've heard right, Wiseguy. It's a direct sequel to LTTP. If you can score a copy it's definitely worth a playthrough (but barring the CDi ones, what LoZ hasn't been worth playing?).
I think that Dr. Stewart from the F-Zero franchise should be an assist trophy since he is another member of the original four. He could heal you when he appears since he is a doctor after all.
Sounds like a good idea to me. I'd like to see Goroh, Pico and Stewart as ATs (though I'd much rather have at least one of them as a playable character...)
By the way, I think I killed the Black Shadow uprising, as you requested. I posted a irrefutable argument against his inclusion on the BS thread, and it promptly died.
In other news, this week is E3 - or as I like to call it "New-Brawl-Trailer Week." It's going to be very interesting to see what Brawl updates we see in the days leading up to the Wednesday Nintendo Press Conference. Will Sakurai get Zamus and MetaKinght out of the way before blowing our minds with an all new trailer, or continue with the awesome updates and give us Donkey Kongand Yoshi already?
Seriously, I REALLY want to see DK. I'll bet that his updated appearance is the most awesome of all the returning characters.
And here's King Dedede's as well. And, since I'm bored out of mind this weekend, a design of King Dedede's castle from Kirby Squeak Squad (I dunno which Copperpot intended).
The newest design based on the anime.
As for predictions for this week, we may get mind-bogglingly mundane posts leading up to the third trailer or maybe some rather nice ones building up nicely to its glory. My hopes include Link's forward and down special moves (they've been noticeably absent in all media released for the game), DK, Meta Knight, Ness/Lucas etc. But, as usual, it'll probably be rather unpredictable. :/
Wow, Ben, when you told me you had one of the biggest threads here in the Brawl Character Discussion, you weren't kidding. It seems like you've put a great deal of effort into this, and I applaud you.
As much as I hate to agree, yes, they will most definetly nerf The Knee (*sobs uncontrollably*). Yes, Olimar, Diddy, and Sonic, will all probably be in. Yes, Ganon will probabl have an entirely new moveset.
...
God, that's all painful to say. D=
And, just because you told me to say so, I believe Frank West should be in Brawl. He's covered wars, you know.
First off, that picture of Ganondorf and its caption actually made me laugh. Well done.
Secondly, here's a post I made in the Geno thread. A few provisos before we begin:
1) I've read your predictions, both about Black Mage and about Geno.
2) This post will sound harsher than I intend it to, because I was being pretty harsh in the Geno topic. I don't mean you any ill-will.
3) Edited portions of the post appear in red.
4) Just as this topic is your speculation, so is the following post mine. While I do say that I'm right in the post, it's actually as up-in-the-air as anything you've posted (such as your assessments on how plausible some of your character picks are).
5) I do, however, think it presents a pretty well-thought-out argument. I only ask that you seriously consider it, not because your list is going to turn into the final roster by any means, but just because I think it's a pretty sound argument.
McFox said:
What are you people talking about? The ONLY Square character that has a GHOST of a chance of making it IS Geno. I will personally guarantee that the situation of there being a playable Squeenix character and Geno as an AT will not happen. If Square does have a representative, it will be Geno.
REMEMBER, Nintendo was not planning to go to the biggest companies and get representatives from each company just to be nice and spread the love. Everyone's crying "Snake's a Konami rep!", which is technically true, but Nintendo did NOT go to Konami and say "Hey, who do you think best represents your company, and we'll put him in the game." Sakurai talked to Hideo Kojima and Kojima said "Hey, I really like Smash, and I think Snake should be in the game." Sakurai said "Hey, that's an excellent idea," and they got the lawyers for the companies to work it out.
If Sakurai thinks that it's a cool idea for Geno to be in the game, it's going to happen. He's basically got almost complete creative control over this game. Remember, he was going to leave Nintendo to work on other projects, and then Nintendo said "Wait, before you go, PLEASE make one more Smash Brothers!" If Sakurai wants Geno (and remember, he's pretty interested in Geno, and he mentioned him in the poll the second-most number of times), then he's going to get him. Square isn't going to say "Well, Cloud or Chrono or Black Mage would be a better representative for Square." He isn't going to get REPRESENTATIVES FOR COMPANIES. This is where most of SWF has deeply flawed thinking. The flaw comes in thinking that character are REPRESENTING something, be it a franchise or a company. No. Sakurai chooses the characters that he thinks would be the best for the game, and that's it. If Square tries to push Chrono or Black Mage on him, he isn't going to do it, because he was asking for Geno, and that's it.
My hopes for Geno at least APPEARING in the game have increased exponentially. I'm not sure he'll make playable character, but I'm fairly certain that he'll make an AT at the very least, along with other high-placed poll characters who aren't going to make the playable cut.
As for predictions for this week, we may get mind-bogglingly mundane posts leading up to the third trailer or maybe some rather nice ones building up nicely to its glory. My hopes include Link's forward and down special moves (they've been noticeably absent in all media released for the game), DK, Meta Knight, Ness/Lucas etc. But, as usual, it'll probably be rather unpredictable. :/
My guess is that this week's first update will either be the Zamus transformation or DK (I'm hoping for the later) but what I REALLY want it to be is Zelda's Sheik-less B moves. I'm pulling an all nighter tonight, so I can make the "Sheik is Dead" thread. You know, just in case...
Regardless, we HAVE to see a new trailer this week. Stop stalling Sakurai, we want to see at least 5 newcomers.
Sacrifice bombs for a Wolf transformation? That's sounds fine to me (though I'm not a Link player...) as long as both characters are properly balanced, unlike the disasaster that was Zelda/Sheik.
Wow, Ben, when you told me you had one of the biggest threads here in the Brawl Character Discussion, you weren't kidding. It seems like you've put a great deal of effort into this, and I applaud you.
As much as I hate to agree, yes, they will most definetly nerf The Knee (*sobs uncontrollably*). Yes, Olimar, Diddy, and Sonic, will all probably be in. Yes, Ganon will probabl have an entirely new moveset.
...
God, that's all painful to say. D=
And, just because you told me to say so, I believe Frank West should be in Brawl. He's covered wars, you know.
First off, that picture of Ganondorf and its caption actually made me laugh. Well done.
Secondly, here's a post I made in the Geno thread. A few provisos before we begin:
1) I've read your predictions, both about Black Mage and about Geno.
2) This post will sound harsher than I intend it to, because I was being pretty harsh in the Geno topic. I don't mean you any ill-will.
3) Edited portions of the post appear in red.
4) Just as this topic is your speculation, so is the following post mine. While I do say that I'm right in the post, it's actually as up-in-the-air as anything you've posted (such as your assessments on how plausible some of your character picks are).
5) I do, however, think it presents a pretty well-thought-out argument. I only ask that you seriously consider it, not because your list is going to turn into the final roster by any means, but just because I think it's a pretty sound argument.
Welcome to my thread, McFox. When I intially saw your post, I nearly had a heart attack - given that you are kind of the Grim Reaper of Brawl Character discussion, closing redundant and spamish threads.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read and post on my humbl thread.
What are you people talking about? The ONLY Square character that has a GHOST of a chance of making it IS Geno. I will personally guarantee that the situation of there being a playable Squeenix character and Geno as an AT will not happen. If Square does have a representative, it will be Geno.
REMEMBER, Nintendo was not planning to go to the biggest companies and get representatives from each company just to be nice and spread the love. Everyone's crying "Snake's a Konami rep!", which is technically true, but Nintendo did NOT go to Konami and say "Hey, who do you think best represents your company, and we'll put him in the game." Sakurai talked to Hideo Kojima and Kojima said "Hey, I really like Smash, and I think Snake should be in the game." Sakurai said "Hey, that's an excellent idea," and they got the lawyers for the companies to work it out.
If Sakurai thinks that it's a cool idea for Geno to be in the game, it's going to happen. He's basically got almost complete creative control over this game. Remember, he was going to leave Nintendo to work on other projects, and then Nintendo said "Wait, before you go, PLEASE make one more Smash Brothers!" If Sakurai wants Geno (and remember, he's pretty interested in Geno, and he mentioned him in the poll the second-most number of times), then he's going to get him. Square isn't going to say "Well, Cloud or Chrono or Black Mage would be a better representative for Square." He isn't going to get REPRESENTATIVES FOR COMPANIES. This is where most of SWF has deeply flawed thinking. The flaw comes in thinking that character are REPRESENTING something, be it a franchise or a company. No. Sakurai chooses the characters that he thinks would be the best for the game, and that's it. If Square tries to push Chrono or Black Mage on him, he isn't going to do it, because he was asking for Geno, and that's it.
My hopes for Geno at least APPEARING in the game have increased exponentially. I'm not sure he'll make playable character, but I'm fairly certain that he'll make an AT at the very least, along with other high-placed poll characters who aren't going to make the playable cut.
You do make an excellent point. As far as Brawl is conscerned, Sakurai is king. What he says, goes. And if he wants Geno in Brawl (or just about any character, for that matter) that carries far more weight than what Nintendo or Square Enix headquaters want. However, unless you know something I don't (which isn't unlikely...) there isn't much evidence out there that Sakurai is partial to including Geno in Brawl over Crono or Black Mage. Sure he was nominated on his Poll (along with Malo) but I'm not aware of any comment he made specifically about Geno. (though I could be wrong...)
I also have to disagree that Sakurai isn't concerned about representing franchises. The Melee roster isn't just a collection of the most unique Nintendo characters of all time, it's a microcosm of Nintendo - past and present. Each major Nintendo franchise had the lead character from their series, and series deemed to have greater importance have a greater presence on the roster (ex: Mario and Zelda series= 5 reps each, F-Zero and Mother series= 1 rep each.) My point being that we didn't see too many obcure, crazy characters representing established franchises. Instead, we have a roster that appears to have been constructed based (at least in part) on which characters were best suited to represent their series of origin. This is why we had Zelda and Young Link instead of Skull Kid or an Octorock.
It remains to be seen whether the remaining 3rd party newcomers in Brawl (assuming there are any besides Snake...) will be also be selected based on this philosophy of being a worthy representative for their company, but I would argue that it is something that Sakurai will at least consider. However, originality will most definitely be a crucial factor as well - and that is Geno's ace in the whole.
I'd love to see Geno in Brawl. He was on my list for for the first few weeks. But after giving it some thought, I wondered if perhaps his chances have been overblown by the internet hype machine and he wasn't really beinf seriously considered at all. In my view, if Sakurai had the resources to include any Square character he wanted, a supporting character from a decade old SNES RPG set in the Mario universe might not be at the top of his list.
Also, after looking at Copperpot's post again, it sounds more like he's referring to the old school version of Mt. Dedede since it's...actually a mountain:
Might be a little nitpicky...<_<
As for the whole third-party thing, we just don't know. Snake's getting in could be a unique instance and the other companies approached might look at it from more of a business standpoint. Mr. Sakurai's conditions and stuborness are rather unclear. SE's seemingly rebuilt relationship with Nintendo and their letting Nintendo use Geno as well as making a couple crossover games with Nintendo does bode well but...just gotta wait and see...just like everything else.
Also, after looking at Copperpot's post again, it sounds more like he's referring to the old school version of Mt. Dedede since it's...actually a mountain:
Might be a little nitpicky...<_<
As for the whole third-party thing, we just don't know. Snake's getting in could be a unique instance and the other companies approached might look at it from more of a business standpoint. Mr. Sakurai's conditions and stuborness are rather unclear. SE's seemingly rebuilt relationship with Nintendo and their letting Nintendo use Geno as well as making a couple crossover games with Nintendo does bode well but...just gotta wait and see...just like everything else.
O.k. Now that post is fixed too. I didn't even notice...
I'm not aquainted with the Kirby series, you're probably right. At anyrate, I think your Kirby pic is good as a general pic for both of Copperpot's stages. I'm sure Copper with let us know what he thinks next time he drops by.
Yeah, the only thing we know for certain about 3rd parties is that we know nothing for certain. For all we know, Brawl will contain all Nintendo characters - with Snake randomly thrown in the mix.
Less than an hour until the next update. Will this be the update that blows everyone's character predictions out of the water? Or will it be a deep explanation of how to pick up items? ("Press A".)
Sakurai seems to intent on making sure his updates follow no rhym or reason. Why give us updates for Zelda and Bowser before Metaknight, who was confirmed over a year ago? At this point, I'm not sure what to expect.
Because Link and Mario's franchises were given profiles before Kirby's and, as such, were given second characters first as well...or something like that. But...you'd think he'd get all of the starting franchises represented first (which Yoshi and F-Zero seem to be a part of) before adding seconds...so ya...Totally unpredictable. :/
Sakurai seems to intent on making sure his updates follow no rhym or reason. Why give us updates for Zelda and Bowser before Metaknight, who was confirmed over a year ago? At this point, I'm not sure what to expect.
Simply omitting or deciding not to mention something doesn't unconfirm it or anything about it. I mean, Meta Knight keeps showing up in updates so I'm sure he's a starting character.
