PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Dr Peepee]

Assuming you mean on FF'ers, I like Dair Utilt into Fsmash vs Nair on them when I hit it on platforms, but it seems like on the ground they can go too far for a followup. It is better only at the higher percent range you listed though imo because it's too slow around 10% usually. You can experiment if you want but shine is usually better.

 

[PAWN1]

Hey PP, I had some questions about juggling Peach after up throw since it seems like her float plus how jank up throw can be makes this tricky.

After watching your vods it seems like when you up throw her at 0 and she DI's forward away from you such that she doesn't get hit by the lasers, you dash dance looking to punish her falling aerial since she can act pretty quickly after the throw. Can you expand on what you'd do for the other possibilities here (like if she just drifts back, you might react and laser her landing for example)?

Also when you up throw her at zero and she DI's behind you such that she doesn't get hit by the lasers I've seen you instantly full hop rising bair, but after talking about this for a bit before, falling bair might be better to get more follow ups, correct? Can you expand on this as well?

Also about the idea of sniping her landing when she's falling towards platforms I notice that you tend to like dash away full hop rising bair, unless she air dodges in which case you can shine. When it comes to not shining her when she normally falls onto the platform, are you just being careful about d smash?

 

[AnonymousID]

Don't understand first problem. Plan proper reactions and react as you land from laser, not after laser has hit or missed them.

Looks like he dashed away then maybe even DI'd away? Maybe RC/JC shine would hit, or you can Dair grab or pressure mixup or just grab. Awkward spacing.

Why would you laser to catch dash back? Just SH after him and aerial or just let him move away and cover him staying in place with SH in some so you can at least pressure if he stays or take stage and laser if he dashes back. Big guesses like that don't help you when you have frame advantage to react.

I always thought approaching laser was the way to go if you think they're going to dash back or you want to pressure their shield. It loses to tilts and stuff but I assumed that's part of the mixup.
If that's not the case then when should I approaching laser then?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hey PP, I had some questions about juggling Peach after up throw since it seems like her float plus how jank up throw can be makes this tricky.

After watching your vods it seems like when you up throw her at 0 and she DI's forward away from you such that she doesn't get hit by the lasers, you dash dance looking to punish her falling aerial since she can act pretty quickly after the throw. Can you expand on what you'd do for the other possibilities here (like if she just drifts back, you might react and laser her landing for example)?

Also when you up throw her at zero and she DI's behind you such that she doesn't get hit by the lasers I've seen you instantly full hop rising bair, but after talking about this for a bit before, falling bair might be better to get more follow ups, correct? Can you expand on this as well?

Also about the idea of sniping her landing when she's falling towards platforms I notice that you tend to like dash away full hop rising bair, unless she air dodges in which case you can shine. When it comes to not shining her when she normally falls onto the platform, are you just being careful about d smash?

If she drifts back, then you would want to chase and either shine her landing on a platform, or yeah challenge landing lag for pressure. Depends on positioning etc etc

Falling Bair is better, but you're more likely to trade or lose out. I like the guaranteed damage. If you don't want to just push her toward center, don't hit her and shark her for Uair or falling Bair or CC shine or something I guess.

Dsmash and getting hit by the aerial yeah. FC has little landing lag.

I always thought approaching laser was the way to go if you think they're going to dash back or you want to pressure their shield. It loses to tilts and stuff but I assumed that's part of the mixup.
If that's not the case then when should I approaching laser then?

I don't think full drift in approaching laser is good if you land near them, but it's fine if you're fairly far away so you can get kind of close sometimes. That way you could catch dash in sometimes. But I like partial laser in. If you accept the risk reward of full laser in then you can do it.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Hey PP I'm back on analysis after finally grinding punish game and movement again on the b0xx for 5 months, still gotta work on that but that'll progress in itself.

I'm having a lot of trouble coming up with a solid answer to sheik's full hop needles. She needles the range that falco likes to chill at, so it forces you to move forward or back. Does this option simply force you to commit? Should I just be shielding it? Is it more about the mixup between moving forward or backwards rather than just doing one thing against it that works pretty well?

Also in general how do you deal with sheiks run up shield (and then subsequent nair oos which I find it most frequent). It's a little frustrating to deal with because it throws falco off balance and their shield can ps the laser purposefully or not. And then they can mixup sh which beats the low laser that I try to do so they can't ps. Also when they dash into you and shield then there's so many different ranges that they can shield at. I'm thinking that after a laser I can do pivot spaced bair on their shield which is good against their nair oos as well. I guess another okay response would be to mixup my laser spacings with in place, half dash back, and full dash back to make them react to the spacing as well and force them to mixup their nair oos timing.

I think what these questions boils down to is how do you stay safe and not lose stage to sheik vs these options?

Also why do you think that full approaching laser is bad against marth? What should mango be doing instead? I'm confused cause it seems to be Falco's best option vs marth's dash back, so even if falcos shouldnt do it as much as mango does it I think it's still valuable as an approach mixup.

Did you know that falco can marth killer sheik's fully charged needles with his full/near full lightshield? Could be useful.

TY and hope you're doing well : )

 

[Dr Peepee]

Moving forward is preferable, but has its own risks if she gets on a platform. It is somewhat preference, somewhat whether sheik has a full needle stack(so she can't hit you starting needling from the top of the FH vs able to).

You can grab, Bair is good, dash back laser in place to beat any of it, WD back observe/punish, Dair/Nair through...etc

It's reactable. If you like it then do it.

I didn't know that! I'll write that down thanks =)

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Moving forward is preferable, but has its own risks if she gets on a platform. It is somewhat preference, somewhat whether sheik has a full needle stack(so she can't hit you starting needling from the top of the FH vs able to).

You can grab, Bair is good, dash back laser in place to beat any of it, WD back observe/punish, Dair/Nair through...etc

It's reactable. If you like it then do it.

I didn't know that! I'll write that down thanks =)

So if I'm moving forward is this just a regular dash and then react during it? Or am I committing? If you do get below them, or even diagonally below them where they can't hit you with needles, then I'm predominantly looking to up tilt?

Why is falco's full laser in reactable? When does the marth react? What should I be doing instead? And also why is it okay to do anyway even though you don't like it? (at least in the context of mango zain)

 

[Dr Peepee]

Usually regular dash, but if you SH in you could always waveland back or something. Getting below them Utilt and Bair are good but it kinda depends, the Sheik may just move away.

Falco's jumpsquat is a few frames, then laser takes like 12 or something to come out, and iirc you can't do it as fast as possible to get a reasonable height. Very slow option that doesn't keep you safe until you almost land. I like overshoot aerial more if you want to do that, but dash forward laser in place or slight laser forward is much safer and can give better positions.

 

[Melonsismyusername]

Ppmd, how do I play better defensivley at ledge, aka how do I plank better.

(no this isnt a troll.)

 

[Dr Peepee]

I believe shine up-B helps you refresh more consistently. Also just being better at killing and being aggressive off of the edge will help deter people from attacking you carelessly there. Beyond that, I'd need to know what you're trying to counter or achieve more specifically.

 

[R3_]

I've heard things about only dash dancing a maximum of 2 times before you approach because any more than that and your opponent can just react and punish. Is this really the case? If so, why do people sometimes dash dance for longer?

I also have a hard time dealing with players who overshoot their approaches. A lot of the time they catch me doing a dashback laser or dashback approaching aerial. I'm a very defensive player but I don't know how to use my defensive options to counter that overshoot playstyle

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Usually regular dash, but if you SH in you could always waveland back or something. Getting below them Utilt and Bair are good but it kinda depends, the Sheik may just move away.

Falco's jumpsquat is a few frames, then laser takes like 12 or something to come out, and iirc you can't do it as fast as possible to get a reasonable height. Very slow option that doesn't keep you safe until you almost land. I like overshoot aerial more if you want to do that, but dash forward laser in place or slight laser forward is much safer and can give better positions.

So you like to dash forward and confirm during the dash? And then i imagine you can laser if they move back or don't do the full hop needles, and maybe mix that up with fully after the dash and pivot bairing.

So in the most general sense your gameplan against marth, at least aggressively, is more skewed towards gaining space and having them corner themselves?

 

[Dr Peepee]

I've heard things about only dash dancing a maximum of 2 times before you approach because any more than that and your opponent can just react and punish. Is this really the case? If so, why do people sometimes dash dance for longer?

I also have a hard time dealing with players who overshoot their approaches. A lot of the time they catch me doing a dashback laser or dashback approaching aerial. I'm a very defensive player but I don't know how to use my defensive options to counter that overshoot playstyle

It's more complex than that. I tell people to dash 1-2 times then make a decision. That decision could be to laser in place, back up, do another set of dashes even, etc. The point is to not mindlessly do it like so many do and move with purpose. It's a good rule.

Full retreating laser, FH, SH Bair(AC or no), Utilt, and also yolo Nair/Dair into them can all help with overshoots. Sometimes you can just shield but of course it's risky. Ftilt sometimes too depending on matchup and such.

So you like to dash forward and confirm during the dash? And then i imagine you can laser if they move back or don't do the full hop needles, and maybe mix that up with fully after the dash and pivot bairing.

So in the most general sense your gameplan against marth, at least aggressively, is more skewed towards gaining space and having them corner themselves?

That's one way to do it, you could dash back first then slight laser forward if unsure.

Gaining space vs Marth and getting into a range where he has to guess on a swing. Marth won't move back forever and may swing early.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

It's more complex than that. I tell people to dash 1-2 times then make a decision. That decision could be to laser in place, back up, do another set of dashes even, etc. The point is to not mindlessly do it like so many do and move with purpose. It's a good rule.

Full retreating laser, FH, SH Bair(AC or no), Utilt, and also yolo Nair/Dair into them can all help with overshoots. Sometimes you can just shield but of course it's risky. Ftilt sometimes too depending on matchup and such.


That's one way to do it, you could dash back first then slight laser forward if unsure.

Gaining space vs Marth and getting into a range where he has to guess on a swing. Marth won't move back forever and may swing early.

So in the most general sense, how do you deal with marth's that tend to move forward and swing more? I'm guessing that's a combination of moving back and lasering, moving back and waiting, and yoloing in trying to catch their jump or just before their move comes out.

 

[Dr Peepee]

If they Nair in, you can shine oos or back up and laser or Nair them/Dair their landing iirc. If they dash attack you can CC, shield, dash/WD back and punish or just low laser it or Dair in. Marth usually doesn't come in and swing another way.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

If they Nair in, you can shine oos or back up and laser or Nair them/Dair their landing iirc. If they dash attack you can CC, shield, dash/WD back and punish or just low laser it or Dair in. Marth usually doesn't come in and swing another way.

is the mid laser height useful in any scenario vs sheik? High lasers seem much better vs sh and low lasers are obv better against ps attempts, dash, wd, and DA.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Sometimes if you want her to more easily PS then mid height can be good. Also if you want to be more sure to catch a jump or descent I guess.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Sometimes if you want her to more easily PS then mid height can be good. Also if you want to be more sure to catch a jump or descent I guess.

I've started to notice that at really close ranges when sheik short hops, sh high laser is much better for catching the jump than mid height. Interesting idea that you can want them to bait a ps, why would you want them to more easily to do that?

If you don't like full approaching laser vs marth, do you dislike swinging in with nair/dair against marth as well? In fact do you like approaching laser in any matchup?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Baiting PS can ensure they go into their next play more easily, whereas you can't always be sure how they will react once they miss PS.

I do not like the full approaching laser UNLESS you land a bit in front of them with it. Swinging in with Nair/Dair is okay vs Marth sometimes depending on how you mean it etc.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Baiting PS can ensure they go into their next play more easily, whereas you can't always be sure how they will react once they miss PS.

I do not like the full approaching laser UNLESS you land a bit in front of them with it. Swinging in with Nair/Dair is okay vs Marth sometimes depending on how you mean it etc.

by a bit in front of them do you mean in shine range?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Farther, such as Ftilt spacing.

 

[MambaGreenFalco]

Farther, such as Ftilt spacing.

Why do you prefer f tilt spacing? Is it safer as an aggressive option? Or is it cause it's harder to confirm after the laser when you're super close?

Take this laser for instance, https://vods.co/v/lmgssg at 1:54

Is this not an ideal range because now ginger has to do something weird like fade back dair on shield, pivot sh ac bair, cross up aerial, or grab without frame advantage (i think) or maybe walk shine into grab/pressure would probably be best. But either way none of falco's option feel super amazing except the last one. But if he had landed in f tilt range then he could f tilt, shoot another laser, half dash back out of marth's nair/fair range and laser. Am I on the right track here?

How does f tilt range laser differ from the laser at 3:18?

Btw what's your opinion on attacking through from the top plat on battefield and dl? IMO it's not that great cause it's not like you ever get an opening. In fact I feel I get whiff punished a lot cause even if I laser there's still a laser height mixup to worry about. I'm starting to think that it's just easier to observe your opponent from the top plat and then move to the opposite side of the stage/other side plat.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Honestly should be farther than that sometimes it just depends. But it's good to land there to have frame advantage and force Marth to guess on a swing or dash back or just hold shield which are all good for you.

Yeah that range is great if you get it. The closer you land, the better.

That range is good.

It's only good if you have a decent chance of shield poking and they are mid or high percent or they are likely to dodge and not try to counterhit.

 

[Squidster]

Hallo :o

https://clips.twitch.tv/PlainExpensiveRaccoonBigBrother

Kinda wanna talk about decisions at ranges like this.

I did laser > dash forward > laser in place x 3 > half approaching laser (which he powershields but its not that big a deal as I’m out of range of PS > grab / fair).

I think that my pattern allowed him to not fear aggressive threats which meant he’s down to do something take laser > wait > powershield which he wouldn’t be able to do if he felt the need to Nair in place or something.

I think the laser > dash forward > laser in place I did was pretty good especially if I was reacting during the dash forward. After it I wasn’t sure what to threaten / mixup properly. Sometimes I shoot 2 lasers in place with the intent of jumping over a powershield and then I feel dumb when they powershield the 2nd one instead of the first lol, I think maybe I should mess around with doing things like Dairs to jumps over PS instead of more lasers.

I think laser > wait or laser > dash forward (into laser in place or approach or dash back approach) would allow me to threaten things like swinging or dashing back from Marth more effectively? The half approaching laser seemed decent but maybe it shoulda been done off the first laser not the third?

At the very end o the clip I just do approaching laser (I didn’t fast fall which may have messed up his dash back PS timing) > approaching early dair which I can only convert off of with dash back grab. The approaching laser seems to be the risky all in low reward play that you talk about a lot lol.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hi Squid! =)

It's hard to know what to respond to since a lot of this wasn't a question. I do agree that Dair'ing and especially Nair'ing over lasers can be great if you expect a PS, but it's kind of an ugly option unless you can confirm/react really well. Guessing in this matchup you can get away with sometimes, but it's not great to potentially give Marth grabs or knockdowns for it when I believe there are safer plays you know?

I would agree with your next to last paragraph. Laser into wait is good and laser dash forward is quite good. Laser wait is a bit risky because you risk losing laser frame advantage but you gain time seeing how they react to it. If they're conditioned not to approach anyway then this is a good thing to do a bit more because it can put some extra pressure on them to act. I also don't prefer multiple lasers in place because I wish to be more actively threatening, so I am surely in agreement with your last line there as well.

Yes, that laser is quite common now and I am not a fan of it. There IS a way to minimize some risk of it, but not as it's currently (over)used. One way to help with this is to actually not FF like you did here. If someone is only waiting for a certain laser timing OR an aerial and they aren't going to directly intercept, then this is fine and encouraged as it deepens your threats and threat range. The Dair and grab followup are both fine from here, although it may have been worth staying on Marth's back instead, doing a Nair if you expected a jump in order to carry him toward the edge and ensure a better followup, or JC shine/walk shine/perhaps not a full drift in aerial to pressure the back of Marth's shield which is very very difficult for him to deal with. What you did after the laser was fine, just thought I'd point out other things.

 

[Squidster]

Ah ok I resonate with everything despite me not having asked a question lol.

https://clips.twitch.tv/MushyWildCheesecakeOptimizePrime

How do you feel about this juggle sequence? I tend to tell myself to juggle "from the ground" vs low % opponent since fh Bair isn't really scary and might leave me above Marth even if I hit him, and jump shine is hard to threaten vs top plat, so I chose to let him land on top plat and "juggle" his attempt to come down which got me an opening here. I coulda gotten more after the Utilt for sure but I'm more curious if you think threatening the top plat landing woulda been better here (I coulda just wavelanded to top plat right after the Uthrow but this could be susceptible to him not jumping and falling with an aerial right away.)

Then the neutral sequence after the roll away, I dash dance cause I don't wanna overextend getting the first laser out vs potential aggressive options. In response to his wiffed Nair I do laser > half approaching laser > approach and get jabbed out. In hindsight either laser coulda beaten the jabs with a dash back > approach as my threat, is the half approaching laser even improving my position that much here or do you think I landed a close enough laser that I should just be playing mixups right away.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I like DJ Bair when possible because you can FF sooner out of it, making it more likely to get a followup sometimes. BF top platform is very high so it's hard to shine you're right, and you're also right about the falling aerial out of Uthrow. It may have been better to DJ Uair once Marth DJ Bair'd, but Marth isn't always going to do such things. There are other side plays to do like slightly waiting then moving forward to see if Marth comes in, or you SH in then try to take a hit as you fadeback and just take the damage as Marth drifts to the right, or you try to shine once you see Marth was clearly drifting into the top platform at the end, but overall Uthrow at 0 is just hard to convert on.

That second laser puts you in perfect position(maybe slightly too close risk wise?), and I think you were right to do it. I tend to prefer dashing back there the majority of the time in case Marth swings or dashes back, and if he shields that's still fine you can pressure or take space freely then. It is possible from that closer position if you immediate Dair'd you may have beaten or traded with his jab which would have been great for you.

 

[Squidster]

"I tend to prefer dashing back there the majority of the time in case Marth swings or dashes back."

Makes sense vs Marth as those two options are def the most common. How about vs Sheiks? Dash back beats take laser Ftilt and shield laser rising early aerial but is kinda tricky vs her jump when she doesn't swing right away (if she does late aerial or double jump for example.) Would you say that laser > immediate Nair in would be the best choice vs these types of jumps? Dash back beats some of the options and lets you scout the others pretty safely so maybe dash back is still really powerful.

https://youtu.be/vcQgCgkYc_I?list=PL3h4WCDXJCNL33Xuvpopnpwv2kT136Jmz&t=505

This isn't a perfect example and I'm currently changing how I approach certain things which includes trying to do much less of this laser > dash back > approaching laser type stuff. But after the 2nd laser I think early approaching nair coulda caught her jump OR I could have tried to react mid dash back and maybe fh aerial at her?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Vs Sheik, I can prefer standing still a little more. It's unlikely Sheik takes a laser and bursts into me, and I may be able to react to her jump startup and Nair her. I may also stay a bit closer than if I dashed back so I could still threaten WD back OOS. However, an awkwardly timed mid Fair or something could beat this but I think it would need to be a guess(or would need to be in certain positions anyway). Early Nair can beat this, but hitting Sheik's shield, even the back part of it, with early Nair is so gross. It basically loses to everything else.

Yes, that early Nair would have worked, but if you ran for a little bit first to overshoot vs shield or WD back, then you may have missed the jump? Hard to say. Ftilt would have beaten you out as well. I believe reacting out of a stalled dash back here would have allowed you to run in and FH Nair the FH(you would need to have stalled because you dashed back before Sheik even jumped....but the dash back stall would have been quite long which is uncomfortable).

 

[Squidster]

Ah yeah I need to incorporate standing still into my "waiting" options. Cool.



Edit:
(If I'm posted twice in a row is it best to just edit my last message? lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrp...list=PL3h4WCDXJCNJYGpaAT7ROddcZs5umIuZG&t=151

Here's an example of Ginger doing similar stuff to what I was doing vs Marth lol.

Laser sheik out of the air > she airdodges down into the ground
Laser > Laser (get poweredshielded)
Laser > Laser > Instant Nair .

I can see now that laser > stand still would have been pretty powerful on basically any of these lasers. I can see that the instant Nair did catch her jump but def woulda sucked if she had held shield (and Ginger has def been getting hit oos a lot this game).

1. Do you think spamming lasers vs Sheik on side plat is decent to setup something like this laser that hit Sheik out of the air? Seems kinda hopeful to me and Fizz can easily react to the lasers being shot and not fall into it lol.

2. Good mixups at these ranges? I'm thinking
laser > stand still
Maybe turning your back to Bair short hops?
Run up grab or shine seems decent as Ginger is low %.
Also thinking maybe laser > Dair in place potentially stops her from doing aggressive ground options like dash attack / dash grab or something without having to risk the approaching aerials.

 

[IamMe]

Trying to figure out how to not get overwhelmed by Fox's nair I noticed something peculiar.

Both Ginger (vs. Leffen) and PPMD (vs. Mango) very rarely shield; espcially compared to their Fox opponent.
How come?

Usually I resolve to shield as a quick "dont get hit option". Are top level players better at anticipating the opponent? Better at spacing? Or do they box out the Fox? I can'y really make sense of it. Am afraid that I might be approaching Falco's kit from the wrong angle; mostly restricting space and looking for blind spots in the opponents play.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Ah yeah I need to incorporate standing still into my "waiting" options. Cool.



Edit:
(If I'm posted twice in a row is it best to just edit my last message? lol)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrp...list=PL3h4WCDXJCNJYGpaAT7ROddcZs5umIuZG&t=151

Here's an example of Ginger doing similar stuff to what I was doing vs Marth lol.

Laser sheik out of the air > she airdodges down into the ground
Laser > Laser (get poweredshielded)
Laser > Laser > Instant Nair .

I can see now that laser > stand still would have been pretty powerful on basically any of these lasers. I can see that the instant Nair did catch her jump but def woulda sucked if she had held shield (and Ginger has def been getting hit oos a lot this game).

1. Do you think spamming lasers vs Sheik on side plat is decent to setup something like this laser that hit Sheik out of the air? Seems kinda hopeful to me and Fizz can easily react to the lasers being shot and not fall into it lol.

2. Good mixups at these ranges? I'm thinking
laser > stand still
Maybe turning your back to Bair short hops?
Run up grab or shine seems decent as Ginger is low %.
Also thinking maybe laser > Dair in place potentially stops her from doing aggressive ground options like dash attack / dash grab or something without having to risk the approaching aerials.

Usually better to edit yeah, but if no one else comments I won't see it so up to you how to handle in some situations. This time it worked out fine.

Yeah you have to mix those lasers up at least timing wise in themselves, but ideally with other threats, to make the lasers successful. I think pressuring Sheik on a lower platform is easier anyway since you have AC Bair you can use, among other things. Sheik will not like that and may get off the platform early, at least on levels with lower platforms, to avoid this.

Ginger could have hit Fizz out of that airdodge, he could have dashed back after he hit the Sheik running in and either lasered or gone for an approach or some other fake such as dashing back in letting that stall out, and yeah waiting or turning back is viable in at least a couple of those. I don't think run up grab should be done much unless you just hit Sheik into shield because if you laser then move forward it is highly advantageous to Sheik to just pop Nair to beat grab or aerial. This is why faking here is good. If Sheik just holds then yeah grab. You can backwards SH over DA or just Ftilt her before she gets to you....I don't like Dair in place or even retreating much because if she fakes you're at frame disadvantage with no laser out, but it can be okay once in a while I guess. I'd rather Dair through her to also hit WD back if I wanted to do something like that.

Trying to figure out how to not get overwhelmed by Fox's nair I noticed something peculiar.

Both Ginger (vs. Leffen) and PPMD (vs. Mango) very rarely shield; espcially compared to their Fox opponent.
How come?

Usually I resolve to shield as a quick "dont get hit option". Are top level players better at anticipating the opponent? Better at spacing? Or do they box out the Fox? I can'y really make sense of it. Am afraid that I might be approaching Falco's kit from the wrong angle; mostly restricting space and looking for blind spots in the opponents play.

Shielding, if you're wrong, means Fox just destroys you. You are better off CC'ing or outspacing Nair. Shield you can also do later than you think....many people shield much too early, and you could have just dodged or even put a move out sometimes.

 

[Squidster]

I have a few clips but they're all short.

Alright I'm trying to play neutral the way your describe and I'm starting to eliminate a lot of the bad options I did that didn't allow me to react or be proactive in the first place but I'm having trouble knowing exactly what to look for in some spots.

1. https://clips.twitch.tv/HotFitDurianPartyTime
First is the laser > foxtrot forward > approach. I def didn't confirm anything during my foxtrot forward, I think I'm just kinda doing the option right now as the first step. Do you think laser in place after the foxtrot forward was the play given the spacing?

As for the laser dash dance at the end, I think I did react to the Nair but panicked and double jumped lol. How do you like to respond to Marths Nair when you make him wiff it. Before I used to punish the next thing either with a read on dash back with approaching laser or a read on something like Utilt with one more iteration of dash dance > approach.

2. https://clips.twitch.tv/LaconicFunnyDiamondWow
Alright this felt a little complicated to me in the moment. I think this is a marginal improvement from the previous clip I posted here where I did multiple lasers in place. Here I'm KINDA of cycling through the more productive options you've mentioned like laser > dash forward, laser > dash back, laser > half approaching laser but once again am kind of missing something in terms of what I'm looking for during these sequences.

I can see in hindsight places where an approach would work, would you choose between full approaching early Dair or Nair in one of these spots based on the spacing of the laser looking for a cross up? Or looking for an approach post reaction point on one of the waiting options?

3. https://clips.twitch.tv/SparklingSoftFlyBrokeBack
https://clips.twitch.tv/AffluentHelplessChimpanzeePeanutButterJellyTime

These two examples are me doing laser > dash back > approaching Dair. It works in the first but not in the second. I'm quite sure once again I didn't confirm anything during the dash backs here. I will say looking back I can see that the first one was off an approaching laser which looks much more threatening and makes the close spacing of the laser much less expected, maybe that's part of it? Would you agree with a statement like "look for more proactive options off of approaching lasers as opposed to more defensive lasers?"

Edge guarding
How do you like to deal with the mixup of marth double jump sweet spotting to ledge vs double jump fairing the ledge? I've advised people to grab the ledge as late as possible to ensure max invincibility time as he reaches that spot to let you invincible Bair bad swings, potentially Bair dj sweet spot attempts or regular getup dj sweetspot attempts which lets you Dsmash or backflip edge hog the subsequent up b. Butttt this method feels risky in tourney and I get reversaled or just scared and too timid in tourney lol. I also tell people to "babysit" Marth first like jumping out there and threatening dj Bair to force him into a worse recovery spot.

If I'm on the right track I'm down to push through the fear and ensure I'm doing the right option but curious if you have a different take on this.

Here's a few clips feel free to not answer each individually:

1. https://clips.twitch.tv/BoringHonorableFoxYouWHY
No baby sit, wd off dj Bair misses dj sweetspot.

2. https://clips.twitch.tv/DeterminedEnchantingMangoOptimizePrime
I try to wd back to ledge "as late as possible" but misjudge and get dj Faired. (I get this edge guard a decent amount of the time when I get the timing correctly and wd a half a second sooner and just bair him for free).

3. https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitraryInnocentPhoneCmonBruh
I run off dj Dair but he dj sweetspots around it, I think I just jumped out way too soon.

4. https://clips.twitch.tv/AttractiveAbstruseBunnySmoocherZ
Here I hold the ledge last second and regular getup as my invincibility runs out but he gets to dj sweetspot for free anyways. I need a better way to threaten this option lol.


Lemme know if this is way too long and I'll keep future posts shorter

 

[Dr Peepee]

This is way too long lol, and usually I'm ultra worn out lately. If you can break up your post into parts, or wish to do a lesson, let me know.

 

[Squidster]

For sure lol, do I DM you for a potential lesson?

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah run it.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

Hey kev, just wanted to reach out and let you know that Ashley and i have been thinking about you, and are glad things are looking up. It's been much too long, but i hope you don't hold it against me but if you do, i understand.

I'm starting to learn falco because i'm in a sort of rut with my place in the game and am looking for something to spark the interest again.

Don't really have any direct questions yet, but wanted you to know you are loved, missed, and prayed for.

I look forward to going through this thread to see some of the wisdom you've passed on in here, and to see if i can one day add to it by asking a useful question.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yo what's up Chris! No hard feelings here at all, I have withdrawn quite extensively. It's great to know I am still supported, and of course I still wish the best for you two and the state <3

Ask any questions you want, but I'll let you know right now that how to beat Peach's float has come up plenty already LOL besides that whatever is fine.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

It means a lot to me after all these years to hear you say that. Thank you. And noted on the peach float lol i'll search that later.

Uhhh i guess the first thing to come to mind is laser heights. I know there are some tricks to them, like shooting high lasers to catch some jumps, and low lasers to jump over if they get powershielded, but are there any weird laser sequences you like or something? I want to have control and intention over each one, but i'm uncertain of some of the potential utility of each laser height and spacing.

I know this is a comically basic yet deep question, so feel free to stay as surface level as you wish.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Low lasers give you the most frame advantage, as you get to act soonest with it out or hitting someone. So obviously high ones give the least. Low then high can hit Peach's attempt to float OOS if you care about that and illustrates the point. Middle ones can give enough and often hit characters during jumps, though Sheik and Peach and often Puff are important exceptions to this. Lower lasers are also often harder/impossible to PS in certain situations, so with those things combined I tend to favor them. Some things to keep in mind are that higher mid or high lasers are good if Falcon tries to Nair at you as he pulls his legs up, and if Marth Nairs he can dodge some mid lasers.