For me, I slightly delay my laser and FF timing to get the lower lasers consistently.
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PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dr Peepee
- Start date
I heard you talked to Kodorin about the space Falco should be standing against Marth in neutral. I think it's around a Falco roll distance away. Can you speak about why this spacing is good? I haven't seen any Falco utilize this space. Are there any vods you can recommend of Falcos using this space?
How do you deal with Marth running off the platform fair? I'm trying to stand off-center and shoot high lasers. Then when the laser hits, I'm reacting too slowly and my nair doesn't connect. I'm not sure whether I should be reading them coming off the platform or reacting or whether I should be shooting a mid-height laser so it's easier to catch them coming down.
I'm having trouble dealing with Marth's full hop in neutral from when he is above me and when I'm outside of Marth's fair range.
How do you deal with Marth running off the platform fair? I'm trying to stand off-center and shoot high lasers. Then when the laser hits, I'm reacting too slowly and my nair doesn't connect. I'm not sure whether I should be reading them coming off the platform or reacting or whether I should be shooting a mid-height laser so it's easier to catch them coming down.
I'm having trouble dealing with Marth's full hop in neutral from when he is above me and when I'm outside of Marth's fair range.
The spacing is just outside of Marth jab/Fsmash. Most Falcos play slightly farther away than this which I believe helps them defensively but hurts them aggressively and thereby reduces mixup potential. The spacing keeps Falco just out of reach of jab and encourages Fsmash, and baits Marth into DA if he wants to do it, which is punishable. It's also a space Falco can use to begin moving closer for offense. His ideal is just inside/around Marth's jab space so he can catch jumps and dash back and also hit Marth's head if he shields, but the starting position is a bit before that. Various Falcos play around there some and I think I used it some vs M2K but it wasn't always required due to how M2K played. All Falcos play the position sometimes just by nature of how the matchup goes.
I mainly laser him as he lands and pressure the landing, or sometimes set up lasers to hit him with a mid height as he falls to link into Nair. It depends on whether Marth FFs or doesn't for example, but also your own spacing. You of course want to be out of Fair range for sure. If your laser is too high you can be Faird out of it, so you need to learn when it is and isn't safe.
Bair Marth's FH.
I mainly laser him as he lands and pressure the landing, or sometimes set up lasers to hit him with a mid height as he falls to link into Nair. It depends on whether Marth FFs or doesn't for example, but also your own spacing. You of course want to be out of Fair range for sure. If your laser is too high you can be Faird out of it, so you need to learn when it is and isn't safe.
Bair Marth's FH.
When I shoot Fox with a close laser but I'm not close enough to shine, I want to do an immediate aerial/grab but I'm getting hit by Fox's take laser shine. I'm not sure what to do. I want to do an immediate option to not let the Fox jump or dashback. I'm scared of waiting a bit or else Fox can attack me.
How do you beat Fox's running shine?
I'm not sure what laser height I should be shooting against Fox. I think I should generally be shooting low to mid lasers to interrupt his movement and approaching options. High lasers interrupt him jumping. I feel like hitting him with low to mid lasers is more advantageous than shooting high lasers.
Is full hopping in place in the corner against Fox a good idea? I use it to try to get a laser out and I'm hoping they won't attack for the threat of the dair. Once I see them approach, I will get hit or I have to double jump.
How do you beat Fox's running shine?
I'm not sure what laser height I should be shooting against Fox. I think I should generally be shooting low to mid lasers to interrupt his movement and approaching options. High lasers interrupt him jumping. I feel like hitting him with low to mid lasers is more advantageous than shooting high lasers.
Is full hopping in place in the corner against Fox a good idea? I use it to try to get a laser out and I'm hoping they won't attack for the threat of the dair. Once I see them approach, I will get hit or I have to double jump.
Hi pp! I find that when my opponent is shielding at about ftilt range away from me, I am bad at pressuring their shield. This is mainly for against Fox and Captain Falcon. The main mixup I try to do are drift forward laser, drift forward late nair, or walk forward shine into shield pressure if I think they'll hold shield. If I want to cover OOS options, I usually db pivot laser.
Against fox, I feel like the first option is too slow/reactable and they'll end up shining OOS or rolling away before I can do anything. And if I do get the laser / late aerial into shine on Fox's shield, I'm not comfortable continuing pressure from their because of Shine OOS.
Against Falcon, if I want to play around Nair OOS it feels like I have to give up so much space to get out of range if he drifts forward. I'm thinking that it may be better to just turn around and threaten Utilt. If I mix up the timings he will be hesitant to aerial OOS, and I can call out roll away occasionally with an aerial. What are your thoughts on this?
Against fox, I feel like the first option is too slow/reactable and they'll end up shining OOS or rolling away before I can do anything. And if I do get the laser / late aerial into shine on Fox's shield, I'm not comfortable continuing pressure from their because of Shine OOS.
Against Falcon, if I want to play around Nair OOS it feels like I have to give up so much space to get out of range if he drifts forward. I'm thinking that it may be better to just turn around and threaten Utilt. If I mix up the timings he will be hesitant to aerial OOS, and I can call out roll away occasionally with an aerial. What are your thoughts on this?
You could Dair in place, Fsmash, Ftilt, maybe walk shine, set up Bair on this. I'm surprised Foxes do this.
Running shine loses to Dair, Bair, Ftilt, lasering early or even late as long as it hits the shine and shine doesn't hit you, DA.....
Don't try to always immediately go in off of laser, some people will just move or act after you laser. Get better at pressuring and practice your tech so you aren't worried about it. Later aerials are much easier to beat shine OOS with.
Bair is good for shield pressure and beats Falcon's Nair OOS. You can also space Bair on Fox if you want. Spacing is okay for shield pressure since they often have to back up, and this can get you a hit or better pressure then. But yeah, the Utilt thing is fine too. It seems like you prefer spacing pressure so you may like spaced Nair and Dair some as well.
What's the purpose of Falco's lasers in neutral in the Fox matchup. I hear the purpose is to lockdown Fox, but when I watch high-level Falco Fox I rarely see Falcos get a direct punish because Foxes are always moving away when they get hit.
When Fox is below Battlefield, can only firefox upwards, and it's ambiguous whether he will go above the stage, how do you hit Fox? Is it better to hold the ledge and attack or is attacking from on stage better?
When Fox is below Battlefield, can only firefox upwards, and it's ambiguous whether he will go above the stage, how do you hit Fox? Is it better to hold the ledge and attack or is attacking from on stage better?
The purpose of lasers is to control Fox's position. Locking him down is impossible. Fox cannot run at you once you have it out unless he FHs, and you'd be able to react to that during laser lag. Projectiles control/influence movement more than stop it.
Grab the edge and drop DJ Dair so he can't tech it. Gives early kills too.
Grab the edge and drop DJ Dair so he can't tech it. Gives early kills too.
How do you avoid Marth's forward throw runoff fair edgeguard?
How to deal with Marth using lightshield when Falco is shield pressuring? I want to grab but the last move I did on Marth's shield pushes them so far back that I am no longer in range to grab. I then feel like if I want to continue the pressure, I have to do aerial shine pressure.
When Marth jumps in neutral but I am only in range to laser, should I try to be shooting a high or low laser. A high laser allows him to double jump away or falling aerial. A low laser might not allow him to get an aerial out and if he tries to double jump away, he won't get far. He might be able to land and shield.
How to deal with Marth using lightshield when Falco is shield pressuring? I want to grab but the last move I did on Marth's shield pushes them so far back that I am no longer in range to grab. I then feel like if I want to continue the pressure, I have to do aerial shine pressure.
When Marth jumps in neutral but I am only in range to laser, should I try to be shooting a high or low laser. A high laser allows him to double jump away or falling aerial. A low laser might not allow him to get an aerial out and if he tries to double jump away, he won't get far. He might be able to land and shield.
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DJ early, DI Fthrow away and you can play more mixups.
Lightshield stuns longer, so just reset and take stage and leave them in bad position. You can actually true link aerial shine on lightshield which is good.
Mid height is usually best, maybe on the lower side to give you more frames to move.
Lightshield stuns longer, so just reset and take stage and leave them in bad position. You can actually true link aerial shine on lightshield which is good.
Mid height is usually best, maybe on the lower side to give you more frames to move.
How can I edgeguard a Peach who is floating parallel to the stage? I was thinking about just holding the ledge and double jump bair when she gets close. I'm concerned about me missing the bair and getting hit by her parasol.
How do you deal with Falcon on the top platform? Most Falcons leave that position after a few seconds or me shooting a couple of lasers, but I have played a couple of Falcon who don't want to move.
How do you recover against Falcon holding ledge? I usually recover by sweetspot shorten but some Falcons catch on and just hold ledge which leads me to side-b on stage. I'm curious why more Falcons don't hold onto the ledge. Is it too committal? Does it cover fewer options?
How do you deal with Falcon on the top platform? Most Falcons leave that position after a few seconds or me shooting a couple of lasers, but I have played a couple of Falcon who don't want to move.
How do you recover against Falcon holding ledge? I usually recover by sweetspot shorten but some Falcons catch on and just hold ledge which leads me to side-b on stage. I'm curious why more Falcons don't hold onto the ledge. Is it too committal? Does it cover fewer options?
Letting go and drifting out then DJ'ing back in can force her to stay farther away before she can upb to you. But yeah threatening Bair is the right idea I believe. Don't be afraid to hang there if she's not coming near though....her time is limited in float.
Depends on which top platform. I like just spacing Bair or threatening to do so sometimes. Hitting them a few times is enough to dislodge them often enough with the fake. Damage is damage.
Holding edge they can't cover as much, and they expect you to react so they move earlier.
Depends on which top platform. I like just spacing Bair or threatening to do so sometimes. Hitting them a few times is enough to dislodge them often enough with the fake. Damage is damage.
Holding edge they can't cover as much, and they expect you to react so they move earlier.
ssbmjager
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2017
- Messages
- 3
Hello all! This is my first time posting on Smashboards, so I'm not sure how posting etiquette works. I hope it's OK for me to post a new question and that I'm not cutting anyone else's discussion short. My question is as follows:
I've recently begun trying to adapt a Falco play style centered on the following flowchart in neutral:
1. SH laser
2. React
3. Use X option (based on 2)
4. Repeat, if necessary
For those of you who employ a similar style, what sort of tools do you all like to use to fill in for #2, the reaction step? As for me, right now I've successfully incorporated a lot of SH laser > dashback. But what are some other sequences I can utilize as opposed to dashback, and what would they accomplish for me thats different from SH laser > dashback? I have some ideas for what I could do, but it's mainly what those ideas accomplish that I'm unsure of, if that makes sense.
A more interesting question might be 'how do you feel about this playstyle, to begin with?' but I didn't want to ask anything that might take too long to answer. I'm still relatively low-level and, I think as a result of this, not always confident in my questions. But, that said, if you do have thoughts on this playstyle in general (strengths/weaknesses/other playstyles) feel free to share.
I've recently begun trying to adapt a Falco play style centered on the following flowchart in neutral:
1. SH laser
2. React
3. Use X option (based on 2)
4. Repeat, if necessary
For those of you who employ a similar style, what sort of tools do you all like to use to fill in for #2, the reaction step? As for me, right now I've successfully incorporated a lot of SH laser > dashback. But what are some other sequences I can utilize as opposed to dashback, and what would they accomplish for me thats different from SH laser > dashback? I have some ideas for what I could do, but it's mainly what those ideas accomplish that I'm unsure of, if that makes sense.
A more interesting question might be 'how do you feel about this playstyle, to begin with?' but I didn't want to ask anything that might take too long to answer. I'm still relatively low-level and, I think as a result of this, not always confident in my questions. But, that said, if you do have thoughts on this playstyle in general (strengths/weaknesses/other playstyles) feel free to share.
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It's fine to post here!
I like laser into slight wait, laser into dash forward laser or laser while slightly moving forward, and sometimes laser into laser in place again.
I like laser into slight wait, laser into dash forward laser or laser while slightly moving forward, and sometimes laser into laser in place again.
ssbmjager
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2017
- Messages
- 3
OK, sweet. Thanks for the reply!
OK -- I will experiment with all of these. From looking through these options, what would you say they accomplish for you, individually? For example, when/why would you opt for
Laser > slight wait as opposed to laser > dashback?
Laser > laser as opposed to laser > slight dash forward laser?
In other words, I think I can see what makes them similar (I'm using them all as tools for reacting), but what makes them different?
OK -- I will experiment with all of these. From looking through these options, what would you say they accomplish for you, individually? For example, when/why would you opt for
Laser > slight wait as opposed to laser > dashback?
Laser > laser as opposed to laser > slight dash forward laser?
In other words, I think I can see what makes them similar (I'm using them all as tools for reacting), but what makes them different?
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Slight wait is good in that it changes your timing, keeps the same spacing, and can help you react quickest to an opponent because you spend no time inputting anything.
Laser laser is primarily good for slowing the opponent down or to encourage a counter such as PS or Fox FH. It can also be good at stuff anyone trying to rush in and intercept anything which is not laser into laser or laser into immediate approaching aerial.
Laser laser is primarily good for slowing the opponent down or to encourage a counter such as PS or Fox FH. It can also be good at stuff anyone trying to rush in and intercept anything which is not laser into laser or laser into immediate approaching aerial.
What is the best way to utilize my invincibility against Marth who is moving around the platform? I used to try to shoot lasers on the ground in case they drop down but they remain on the platform. I'm not sure whether I should my invincibility to gain a positional advantage or to try to get a hit.
If Marth is on the ground up-throws me on a platform, I have to tech. Is there anything I can do to avoid Marth's waveland grab? I think I can only buffer spot dodge but I'm not sure if there is anything else I can do.
If Marth up throws me from the top platform, I'm not sure how to DI when I'm at high percent. If I do no DI, Marth does up-smash. If I do full DI to the left/right Marth forward smashes. I was thinking slight DI in either direction but I'm not sure if Marth can still follow up with forward smash. I think Marth can hit me with uptilt but that seems like a better trade than the other smash attacks.
I have a friend who doesn't main Falco or Marth but he is struggling with both of those matchups. I'm assuming it's ok for him to ask you questions right?
If Marth is on the ground up-throws me on a platform, I have to tech. Is there anything I can do to avoid Marth's waveland grab? I think I can only buffer spot dodge but I'm not sure if there is anything else I can do.
If Marth up throws me from the top platform, I'm not sure how to DI when I'm at high percent. If I do no DI, Marth does up-smash. If I do full DI to the left/right Marth forward smashes. I was thinking slight DI in either direction but I'm not sure if Marth can still follow up with forward smash. I think Marth can hit me with uptilt but that seems like a better trade than the other smash attacks.
I have a friend who doesn't main Falco or Marth but he is struggling with both of those matchups. I'm assuming it's ok for him to ask you questions right?
It depends on some things. DL the platforms are high and wide so it can be harder, but on YS it's much easier to go for hit since he's closer and lower. But yes shooting lasers doesn't help so much there.
You can miss tech to have options vs it, but sometimes just tech toward center and let him uthrow you onto top platform where he doesn't have the best followups sometimes. It really depends on percent and stage. Buffer spotdodge can help.
Yeah, slight DI is a great choice there.
If he plays Marth or Falco he can ask in those respective threads, this one for Falco. If he does not play either character, it would probably be easier to ask while I am streaming or in my discord.
You can miss tech to have options vs it, but sometimes just tech toward center and let him uthrow you onto top platform where he doesn't have the best followups sometimes. It really depends on percent and stage. Buffer spotdodge can help.
Yeah, slight DI is a great choice there.
If he plays Marth or Falco he can ask in those respective threads, this one for Falco. If he does not play either character, it would probably be easier to ask while I am streaming or in my discord.
When Marth forward/back/down throws me at low percent, I'm not sure which direction I should generally be teching towards. Should I tech towards stage or to the ledge. Should I even have a preference?
How do I safely reset neutral when I am on side platform and Marth is holding center. I thought about going to top platform, backing up a bit so I can safely drop down laser, and jumping off the side platform with a laser/aerial.
I'm not what follow ups I have if I land a laser close to Marth but I'm not close to immediately shine. I can grab, dash shine. I don't want to aerial because it gets stuffed out my Marth doing a move or dashback.
Can you tell me to stop jabbing Marth? Marth keeps grabbing out of it.
How do I safely reset neutral when I am on side platform and Marth is holding center. I thought about going to top platform, backing up a bit so I can safely drop down laser, and jumping off the side platform with a laser/aerial.
I'm not what follow ups I have if I land a laser close to Marth but I'm not close to immediately shine. I can grab, dash shine. I don't want to aerial because it gets stuffed out my Marth doing a move or dashback.
Can you tell me to stop jabbing Marth? Marth keeps grabbing out of it.
It doesn't particularly matter, but going toward center will at least make the Marth take longer to kill you/build more percent to do so. So that can be a fine preference.
Falling with a laser can be fine if it's a larger stage. If he's more passive it works too. Taking top platform is fine for a reset as well.
Grab, JC shine, sometimes Dair can work depending on what you expect, maybe Ftilt depending on circumstances. Dash back sometimes depending on circumstances.
Stop jabbing marth
Falling with a laser can be fine if it's a larger stage. If he's more passive it works too. Taking top platform is fine for a reset as well.
Grab, JC shine, sometimes Dair can work depending on what you expect, maybe Ftilt depending on circumstances. Dash back sometimes depending on circumstances.
Stop jabbing marth
Let's say Peach is trying to up-b from below the stage sweetspot and the Falco does the walk forward down smash/ forward tilt. Should Falco be reacting to Peach's up-b or is it a read on their timing? If Peach does the lowest up-b, can Falco still punish?
On FD when Peach is floating above lasers, how good is it to challenge with a full hop falling dair. I think it's good if you think the Peach is going to stay floating as you jump but I think there is enough time for Peach to react. I'm not if Falco should be doing this option especially because Peach is a moving target.
Is there any way to make Peach's chaingrab more difficult for Peach?
On FD when Peach is floating above lasers, how good is it to challenge with a full hop falling dair. I think it's good if you think the Peach is going to stay floating as you jump but I think there is enough time for Peach to react. I'm not if Falco should be doing this option especially because Peach is a moving target.
Is there any way to make Peach's chaingrab more difficult for Peach?
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Falco can still hit, but only with Dsmash I believe. It's kind of a read and kind of a reaction but things that can help are knowing Peach has to let go of float for a moment before up-B'ing, and she can space or not space her edgegrab with it.
Peach can just float back and hit you falling or fall and get a turnip, not worth it.
Don't DI behind at low percent because you get Dsmashed, and otherwise mix in some slight DI behind vs no DI so she can't be sure if she will get the grab.
Peach can just float back and hit you falling or fall and get a turnip, not worth it.
Don't DI behind at low percent because you get Dsmashed, and otherwise mix in some slight DI behind vs no DI so she can't be sure if she will get the grab.
When I launch Peach towards the top of the blastzone, I'm trying to firebird into Peach to secure the kill. Recently I have been getting hit by Peach's bair and I don't trade. I'm not sure if I should continue with the firebird or if I should try to aim for Peach's feet. Even if I do get hit, we land at the same time.
If Peach down-smashes Falco's shield, what's the best way to avoid getting shield poked. I was thinking shield DI away but that seems more susceptible to be shield poke. I was thinking about light shield but that might decrease the size of your shield so you do get poked. I was also thinking about buffer roll towards Peach shine?
Is it generally a bad idea to shoot lasers while Peach is offstage using her up-b? It just allows her to gain height right?
If Peach down-smashes Falco's shield, what's the best way to avoid getting shield poked. I was thinking shield DI away but that seems more susceptible to be shield poke. I was thinking about light shield but that might decrease the size of your shield so you do get poked. I was also thinking about buffer roll towards Peach shine?
Is it generally a bad idea to shoot lasers while Peach is offstage using her up-b? It just allows her to gain height right?
Firebird is pretty easy for Peach to play around and I have not found a way to make it hit any competent Peach.
Shield DI away is the best way to avoid getting shield poked. Lightshield is even better especially if you combine the two. Just begin shield DI'ing as Dsmash hits so you are much less likely to be poked.
Yeah it usually just lets her gain height. Once she has up-B'd go for Dairs and Bairs and such.
Shield DI away is the best way to avoid getting shield poked. Lightshield is even better especially if you combine the two. Just begin shield DI'ing as Dsmash hits so you are much less likely to be poked.
Yeah it usually just lets her gain height. Once she has up-B'd go for Dairs and Bairs and such.
When I am offstage recovering about side platform height and Peach hits me with a turnip, is there anything I can do to avoid Peach's aerial afterwards? I'm not close enough to airdodge on stage.
What should I do if Peach is approaching while floating at laser height but I don't have time to shoot a laser? Backing off laser. Trade with an aerial.
What should you do if Peach dash attacks your shield at high percent, like around 90%? Most of the options I can think of will send her too far to combo but not enough to kill. I was thinking short hop dair hoping they DI in or use shine bair.
I'm starting to have this problem where if I only thinking about matchup A, I start playing my other matchups like matchup A. I do this subconsciously. I'm not sure how to do a better compartmentalize matchups and not confusing matchups while playing.
What should I do if Peach is approaching while floating at laser height but I don't have time to shoot a laser? Backing off laser. Trade with an aerial.
What should you do if Peach dash attacks your shield at high percent, like around 90%? Most of the options I can think of will send her too far to combo but not enough to kill. I was thinking short hop dair hoping they DI in or use shine bair.
I'm starting to have this problem where if I only thinking about matchup A, I start playing my other matchups like matchup A. I do this subconsciously. I'm not sure how to do a better compartmentalize matchups and not confusing matchups while playing.
flyboy__
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2019
- Messages
- 46
Back during the Apex 2015 days, what drove you to win? I feel like there is a difference between wanting to be your best and wanting to win. Sometimes I stop caring about winning because the drive to win can be overwhelming and an obstacle to progress. Yet, I would think that not caring also means one would be less obliged to push themselves in those "top of the mountain" situations. Given your focus on self-improvement, what gave you the drive to win, or push yourself from 2nd to 1st?
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Oh you mean if she floats out with the turnip? I don't know if there is honestly.
Bair and Utilt, and maybe Nair can be great here. Retreating laser is fine too.
Shine Bair is good, shine is okay if you think she will hold in. Dair can kind of be an inbetween choice.
It would probably help to get a short list of notes to think about a matchup, then think those before you play it so you switch over.
I stopped wanting to win purely for the win. At the time, I was very much fueled by wanting to learn and grow more. For the honest enjoyment of playing against an opponent who is playing their best and what we create by playing. That is what I cared about. Titles and trophies and social media likes are fleeting, but enjoyment and great memories can last forever, forward or backward in time.
WD away, FH toward center, let him do something differently after Uair and play off that. So if he dashes back you can wait until he decides to come in then move.
R3_
Smash Cadet
Hi, long time no post
I wanted to know how you do platform tech chases after a shine, I seem to always overcommit by shining way to early (expecting to shine them before they land on the platform) I've tried things like wavelanding and double jump dair but I just don't have a confident method for covering options.
Right now I just do that shine waveland on, into shine short hop dair and just pray that something hits lol, would love some feedback on this
Also I'll probably be posting more here again since im back from my melee break now
Edit: I've started just waiting for the tech option and it's made my platform combos significantly better already, still would love to know what you have to say though
I wanted to know how you do platform tech chases after a shine, I seem to always overcommit by shining way to early (expecting to shine them before they land on the platform) I've tried things like wavelanding and double jump dair but I just don't have a confident method for covering options.
Right now I just do that shine waveland on, into shine short hop dair and just pray that something hits lol, would love some feedback on this
Also I'll probably be posting more here again since im back from my melee break now
Edit: I've started just waiting for the tech option and it's made my platform combos significantly better already, still would love to know what you have to say though
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Yeah waiting for tech option is best. This depends on a lot of stuff such as character, percent, DI, stage, which platform, etc. But yeah shining the tech option or just at least taking free Bair damage is great. Pushing them toward edge is pretty much always going to be good for you. You can sometimes do SH in DJ if you shine them from center and can land Dair.
R3_
Smash Cadet
Yo, I've noticed that one of my worst habits is that I always just do the typical aerial in (no over/undershoot) and it makes my neutral game awful lol
What did you do to add more variety to your approaches?
What did you do to add more variety to your approaches?
Overshooting Dair is okay in some matchups sometimes, and moving closer with laser is also pretty good. Then you can also fake doing these things more. Something that is helpful to me is considering where I'm trying to be to threaten them, and what their good options are that I can beat at various ranges.
What should you do if Puff does a laggy move on your shield at low percent and she lands next to you?
Same situation as above but what if you are facing away from her?
What do you think about using full hop dair in neutral against Puff once dair can start knocking down?
Same situation as above but what if you are facing away from her?
What do you think about using full hop dair in neutral against Puff once dair can start knocking down?
Well if you can hit shine that's always pretty good, but of course if you can ever hit Dair it's better. If you can't hit that with your back to Puff, SHFFL Bair can be alright for damage but it is quite slow of course. You could turnaround laser to get closer and threaten shine or Dair if you wanted and thought it could work.
Puff can easily get to the side of your FH Dair and punish your landing lag.
Puff can easily get to the side of your FH Dair and punish your landing lag.
What is Falco's goal when Puff is in shield? I know I want to get some type of opening but I'm not sure how.
What does short hop up-air in neutral accomplish versus Puff who is a bit higher than short hop laser range. Does it do anything other than damage?
What is your strategy for avoiding a Puff that just respawned?
What does short hop up-air in neutral accomplish versus Puff who is a bit higher than short hop laser range. Does it do anything other than damage?
What is your strategy for avoiding a Puff that just respawned?
Surprise grabs, shield pokes, and pressure to force her to move OOS so you can punish. That is what you're looking for.
It could perhaps combo around lower percents, but you wouldn't get much off of it unless it could link into a knockdown Dair.
Switch up which side I am at under her so she is unsure of which aerial to throw out and/or get on a platform/go high so she has to burn time and jumps just to even pressure me. Getting to top platform is best for this.
It could perhaps combo around lower percents, but you wouldn't get much off of it unless it could link into a knockdown Dair.
Switch up which side I am at under her so she is unsure of which aerial to throw out and/or get on a platform/go high so she has to burn time and jumps just to even pressure me. Getting to top platform is best for this.
R3_
Smash Cadet
Why am I so awful at the video game super smash bros melee? everytime I play the game, after every session I am always so depressed and feel like im useless. I suck so bad at understanding neutral, punishing, edgeguarding, recovering, acting oos, attacking on shield, positioning, everything...
I want to improve but there is just so much stuff that im awful at and so I end up doing nothing, having barely any motivation doesn't help either and whenever I try to do solo practice, it just never translates to a real match
I know this isn't falco specific but I just didn't know where to post this and I don't know what to do
I want to improve but there is just so much stuff that im awful at and so I end up doing nothing, having barely any motivation doesn't help either and whenever I try to do solo practice, it just never translates to a real match
I know this isn't falco specific but I just didn't know where to post this and I don't know what to do
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So very many people start out and are unable to do competitive techniques. Some take longer than others, but as long as they follow improvement paths that work for them, they improve. An improvement path for some may be entirely game-oriented, while others may involve working on out of game factors(you mentioned motivation) alongside the game and seeing their relation....and so on.
Concretely, it's worth changing your practice routine if it's not translating to matches. Practice like you play.
Also, if you find yourself held back by emotional factors, they are worth addressing. Everything is related.
Perhaps more than anything else: be kind to yourself. It's worth it.
Concretely, it's worth changing your practice routine if it's not translating to matches. Practice like you play.
Also, if you find yourself held back by emotional factors, they are worth addressing. Everything is related.
Perhaps more than anything else: be kind to yourself. It's worth it.
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Frenzy231199
Smash Cadet
Hi
Dr Peepee
hope you are well, I've been reevaluating my Marth MU at the moment and have been watching some of your twitch streams for inspiration and was wondering if I could ask some questions about how you see the MU / some of the sequences you go for?
So I know one big thing that separates how you play the MU vs how it's played in the meta at the moment, is you go for a lot less lunges forwards with Full Approaching Lasers, and try to do more Half Approaching Lasers or Dash Back -> Dash Forward Laser in place to take space slowly. Would you still be going for this route if someone is playing very non committal and only dashing back / looking for crouch PS at the far ranges (about a Falco SH N-Air distance away) after they get hit by a laser? This style seems to be coming up more and more in EU at least and I've found it works more effectively to just "cut to the chase" by lunging forward with a Laser that plays around their PS (Usually either super high or low / delayed), and will put you in a good position after if they do Dash Back?
From my understanding, the reason why we want to inch closer then go for big commitments is because Marths hitboxes are hard to contest when he is spaced, and he get easy whiff punishes on your moves when you are too far away, so my thought was that if he isn't walling you out / attacking forwards with hitboxes, and he isn't whiff punishing your moves (since you're lasering forwards) then it should be fine to lunge earlier with well timed / good height lasers in this case? I feel as if when I try to just inch forwards or use my movement to bait out commitments when they are playing like this, then I just end up losing my frame advantage and start to get outmanoeuvred, putting me in a position where I have to play neutral without the laser out, since can't get a laser out safely, or have to do so at the cost of the whole stage.
Also from reading through some of your posts, I remember you talking a bit about how you like to pressure Marth in the corner by mixing up Lasering him at good distances, attacking at different timings, and dd'ing waiting for options, I was wondering if you could expand a bit on this and sort of explain when you are looking to do each? I've been thinking about it more whilst playing, and so far I feel as if DD'ing and waiting lets you get big punishes on options such as FH WL / Aerial OOS and Rolls, but can make you give up the initiative if he does something like WD forwards (Feels hard to react to all of these also, are you just guessing some of these when dd'ing?). Lasers feel strong to cover Jumps and keep him stuck, but at least in my experience a lot of Marths seem to set up a crouch PS by just taking the laser / dropping shield then crouching, and it happens so fast that it's hard to switch your height / timing in time to play around it? Finally attacking at different timings seems strong if you have the read on how they like to get out, but it seems like there's a lot of ways it can go wrong (Marth going under / over you, stuffing your approach with an aerial timing, Shield Grabbing Rising Aerials etc.) so I'm not sure if it's worth it to go for this often?
If you could give some feedback on any of this that would be awesome, but even just articulating this has helped a bit. I will probably have some more discussion points soon since I've been grinding the Marth MU a lot the past few days but these were just a few of my thoughts from playing and observing so far.
Dr Peepee
hope you are well, I've been reevaluating my Marth MU at the moment and have been watching some of your twitch streams for inspiration and was wondering if I could ask some questions about how you see the MU / some of the sequences you go for?So I know one big thing that separates how you play the MU vs how it's played in the meta at the moment, is you go for a lot less lunges forwards with Full Approaching Lasers, and try to do more Half Approaching Lasers or Dash Back -> Dash Forward Laser in place to take space slowly. Would you still be going for this route if someone is playing very non committal and only dashing back / looking for crouch PS at the far ranges (about a Falco SH N-Air distance away) after they get hit by a laser? This style seems to be coming up more and more in EU at least and I've found it works more effectively to just "cut to the chase" by lunging forward with a Laser that plays around their PS (Usually either super high or low / delayed), and will put you in a good position after if they do Dash Back?
From my understanding, the reason why we want to inch closer then go for big commitments is because Marths hitboxes are hard to contest when he is spaced, and he get easy whiff punishes on your moves when you are too far away, so my thought was that if he isn't walling you out / attacking forwards with hitboxes, and he isn't whiff punishing your moves (since you're lasering forwards) then it should be fine to lunge earlier with well timed / good height lasers in this case? I feel as if when I try to just inch forwards or use my movement to bait out commitments when they are playing like this, then I just end up losing my frame advantage and start to get outmanoeuvred, putting me in a position where I have to play neutral without the laser out, since can't get a laser out safely, or have to do so at the cost of the whole stage.
Also from reading through some of your posts, I remember you talking a bit about how you like to pressure Marth in the corner by mixing up Lasering him at good distances, attacking at different timings, and dd'ing waiting for options, I was wondering if you could expand a bit on this and sort of explain when you are looking to do each? I've been thinking about it more whilst playing, and so far I feel as if DD'ing and waiting lets you get big punishes on options such as FH WL / Aerial OOS and Rolls, but can make you give up the initiative if he does something like WD forwards (Feels hard to react to all of these also, are you just guessing some of these when dd'ing?). Lasers feel strong to cover Jumps and keep him stuck, but at least in my experience a lot of Marths seem to set up a crouch PS by just taking the laser / dropping shield then crouching, and it happens so fast that it's hard to switch your height / timing in time to play around it? Finally attacking at different timings seems strong if you have the read on how they like to get out, but it seems like there's a lot of ways it can go wrong (Marth going under / over you, stuffing your approach with an aerial timing, Shield Grabbing Rising Aerials etc.) so I'm not sure if it's worth it to go for this often?
If you could give some feedback on any of this that would be awesome, but even just articulating this has helped a bit. I will probably have some more discussion points soon since I've been grinding the Marth MU a lot the past few days but these were just a few of my thoughts from playing and observing so far.