PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[alphabattack]

Where are you from? I made it out of pools and then lost to Tian and Hart in bracket

I'm from southern Rhode Island. The two closest tournaments I had were in pawcatuck which had about 9 people and a pm tournament at University of Rhode Island. So not a lot of close stuff. I lost to schminkledorf and some sheik main. Can't remember his name.

 

[Red Rice]

Ahh, I've played with a bunch of people from southern RI. If you've heard of UnknownForce? He was in one of the smash documentary episodes, he's from southern RI.

 

[alphabattack]

Ahh, I've played with a bunch of people from southern RI. If you've heard of UnknownForce? He was in one of the smash documentary episodes, he's from southern RI.

Yeah I have, but only from the video. And I have one friend who plays melee, so not a lot of competition. And I have gotten to the point where he does not play well against me. I have 4 stocked him 3 times, and we all started playing at the same time. I thin it's most likely because I put in the most work out of my friends. We used to be a pm only gang, but then I moved to melee cause it's the best.

 

[Zhea]

So I recently played one of Texas's best in some MMs and wanted some criticism.

Set 1 is vs Peach a match up I hate
Set 2 is against Fox

 

[Bones0]

Can anyone critique/give advice for my Falco?

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/536378639

From 19:25 to 21:35.

I'm new to the tourney scene and I've never had a match recorded before, so I want to study and learn from my mistakes.

19:39 - After that dair, he was out of range for shine, but you could have grabbed. Identifying when your shine won't connect and using utilt, dtilt, dsmash, or grab instead is really important.

19:48 - Similar to the above situation, you crossup nair Fox and shine even though you are out of range for it to hit. You have to be hyper aware of your spacing so when to utilt/dash away/shield after SHFFLs.

19:57 - When you are pinned at the ledge like that vs. Fox, obviously you have to do something OoS, but I recommend trying to move right after the shine as opposed to right after the aerial. Worst case scenario is you get naired at 70% which is obviously bad, but it isn't a guaranteed shine spike like when you get shined. If he drills you're even better off. Alternatively, you can WD OoS after their aerial and it basically doubles as a ground tech input for the shine. No matter when you try to move OoS, be prepared to DI up so you have as many DJ recovery options as possible.

20:28 - Instead of jumping and ending your combo with shine dair, you should have SHFFLed a uair and tried to carry him off stage as much as possible.

20:55 - Know what ledge options your opponent's character has and which ones they favor. There's really no reason to get hit by a LH drill in that scenario. It seemed like you just got lazy and tried to laser -> fsmash him when you could just as easily DD grab/DA/dair and get the kill with just a bit more work.

21:05 - Yeah, just don't do that. lol I just noticed you basically haven't FHed at all, and that was a good example of a scenario where you could have just FHed before Fox could get to you. It's one of Falco's best options when he's trapped at the edge as long as the opponent isn't in position to punish.

21:08 - That SHFFL was way riskier than you might think. You were invincible when you did it so you were safe for the moment, but being invincible, the opponent will typically shield if he is cornered because he knows he can't beat/trade with your moves. Still, the idea to aerial was bad, but you crossed him up for no reason and cornered yourself right as your invincibility runs out.

21:14 - After you landed the laser, you could have just ftilted or naired or something simple to get Fox off stage (he's over 100% at that point). Trying to shine bair just introduces a bunch of variables. He can SDI the shine to escape, only take the weak bair hitbox, or even take the strong hitbox but get sent in the other direction. You are also way more exposed to counterattacks if you messed up your hit confirm on the laser.

21:26 - You were being pretty stubborn trying shine and dair Fox considering he was FHing aerials. Spamming attacks will work sometimes, but the better your opponents are, the more you'll get punished for attacking thoughtlessly. Try to keep your presence of mind.

Miscellaneous - FH more and practice your lasers because you kept missing a ton of RSHLs that would have been crucial errors vs. a better opponent. Try to emphasize movement more in neutral as opposed to just throwing out hitboxes. Definitely make yourself start DDing between lasers because the laser -> laser -> SHFFL approach will get you bopped real quick these days; it's too obvious what you're doing.

 

[L33thal]

Miscellaneous - FH more and practice your lasers because you kept missing a ton of RSHLs that would have been crucial errors vs. a better opponent. Try to emphasize movement more in neutral as opposed to just throwing out hitboxes. Definitely make yourself start DDing between lasers because the laser -> laser -> SHFFL approach will get you bopped real quick these days; it's too obvious what you're doing.

Hey, thanks for the critique! Yeah, I've been asking some known players at tourneys for advice/tips and they keep saying the same stuff you're saying (eg: too predictable, too many lasers, no mixups, only one approach, etc.), but you went more in depth which I appreciate.

I don't really get to play much against human players, so my strategy's pretty simple/dumb. I got into competitive smash in '06 after I watched some SSB64 Isai and Bombsoldier videos. I couldn't go to Melee tourneys back then, so I just played a lot of online 64. I think 64 influenced my Melee game because the punishes are crazy in 64; one mistake leads to a 0-death combo and you losing another stock. So I guess I try to throw out a lot of lasers and SHFFL aerials to lock-down my opponent. I figured that I'd be relatively safe due to Falco's high priority and ability to cover options, but that didn't really work out lol. Like subconsciously, I feel like spamming lasers won't let my opponent breathe. Also, the few people that I do get to play against sometimes play really aggro so it's like I have to spam lasers to push them back.

Another thing that influenced my game is that I used to watch a lot of Bombsoldier videos. I don't really know the metagame and all that, because back then I was into all the flashy stuff. My strategy is just: spam lasers, SHFFL nair, shine, repeat.

I think I need to play against people to practice approaches, smart decisions, etc., but I have no one to play against

 

[Bones0]

Hey, thanks for the critique! Yeah, I've been asking some known players at tourneys for advice/tips and they keep saying the same stuff you're saying (eg: too predictable, too many lasers, no mixups, only one approach, etc.), but you went more in depth which I appreciate.

I don't really get to play much against human players, so my strategy's pretty simple/dumb. I got into competitive smash in '06 after I watched some SSB64 Isai and Bombsoldier videos. I couldn't go to Melee tourneys back then, so I just played a lot of online 64. I think 64 influenced my Melee game because the punishes are crazy in 64; one mistake leads to a 0-death combo and you losing another stock. So I guess I try to throw out a lot of lasers and SHFFL aerials to lock-down my opponent. I figured that I'd be relatively safe due to Falco's high priority and ability to cover options, but that didn't really work out lol. Like subconsciously, I feel like spamming lasers won't let my opponent breathe. Also, the few people that I do get to play against sometimes play really aggro so it's like I have to spam lasers to push them back.

Another thing that influenced my game is that I used to watch a lot of Bombsoldier videos. I don't really know the metagame and all that, because back then I was into all the flashy stuff. My strategy is just: spam lasers, SHFFL nair, shine, repeat.

I think I need to play against people to practice approaches, smart decisions, etc., but I have no one to play against

I have had very little human practice over the years as well. You should do your best to travel and get as much practice as possible because not playing humans definitely slows down your improvement. That being said, with diligent studying of actual videos (ACTUAL studying, not just watching), getting your own matches recorded when you do go to tourneys, and smart practice vs. CPUs can all help you improve substantially. Try to not autopilot vs. CPUs because it just builds bad habits and you don't want to waste your time vs. humans trying to break habits you shouldn't have had in the first place.

If you mix some Name Entry Glitch practice into your regimen and just imagine a human opponent, it can often be easier to play more patient and less auto-piloted. You can imagine the opponent boxing you out with moves and practice DDing around certain things then approaching only when they've already shielded from your (safe) lasers or the threat of a SHFFL or done a laggy attack. HERE is my post on how I break down videos if it helps.

Have you checked the Cali Facebook groups for players near you? It's such an active region I'd be surprised if you really had no one nearby. Edit: You are only ~30 minutes from Anaheim! I'm jelly. There are only 2 players within 30 mins of me, and most tournaments are 1-2 hour drives (each way).

 

[L33thal]

Have you checked the Cali Facebook groups for players near you? It's such an active region I'd be surprised if you really had no one nearby. Edit: You are only ~30 minutes from Anaheim! I'm jelly. There are only 2 players within 30 mins of me, and most tournaments are 1-2 hour drives (each way).

Well, I don't use Facebook. It might sound ridiculous, but I'm kind of iffy/paranoid about all the privacy and data stuff, especially since now you need to give them your phone number in order to sign up. And that's what really sucks, since everyone's been telling me that Facebook is where most people set up games. I tried using Smashboards, but no one replies lol.

I've been kind of semi-studying videos over the years. The problem is, I just watch Marth and Falco videos mainly lol. I don't know, I think I lack the diligence to break down and scrutinize the playstyle of most of the roster.

Playing CPUs was all I did up until 3 months ago. It helped at first, because it gave me an idea of how to execute my tech. But now, I feel like it just conditions me to fight a stationary opponent and/or throw out reckless attacks/be too aggro. I've been trying to do different stuff like playing against a CPU set on 'Evade' in Training Mode, to get practice against a moving character.

Yeah, I think the biggest thing I need to work on is experience and knowledge. I'll try studying more videos and hopefully find more people to play.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Just ask someone to teach you. There are plenty of good players in SoCal who would love to help new players.

 

[shapular]

I'm having trouble with the waveshine timing. It seems like if I hit R Falco doesn't jump, but if I don't hit it he does. Even if I try waiting to do the wavedash, it still doesn't come out most of the time. Any tips?

 

[ChivalRuse]

You need to deliberately delay the airdodge a little after jumping. Falco's jump is slow (6 frames); can't airdodge till you leave the ground!

 

[Bones0]

Even if you hit R too early, you should just be jumping without airdodging. If you aren't jumping, then you are pressing jump too early (shine isn't JCable until frame 4, and if shine hits a character/shield you have to account for hitlag as well). Turning around in shine can also prevent your JC input from going through.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I gather from what Bones just laid out that you need to wait about 9 frames in between the shine and jump or the jump input won't come out.

 

[Bones0]

So I recently played one of Texas's best in some MMs and wanted some criticism.

Set 1 is vs Peach a match up I hate
Set 2 is against Fox

[collapse=Game 1]0:48 - If Peach is floating towards you like that, you'll probably want to FH over her. I really abuse top plats when I play this matchup because it's often the only way to avoid going through Peach, which sucks and is almost never in your favor unless you have an opening.

0:58 - Kind of nit picky, but when you drop from your respawn, you dash left for no reason at all. I guess it just seemed weird to me that you'd sort of just give up your invul and perhaps it's a sign of you autopiloting a bit. I don't always rush in on respawn ofc, but you should mixup approaching with cornering them since you literally can't be hit for a few seconds. If I saw her pull a turnip like that on my respawn, I probably would have just SHFFLed right at her because you have the low plat to work with and she can't shield grab even after your invul runs out.

Right after that, she floats and you wait it out well, but she lands in front of you and you don't really punish and end up getting hit by a jab. Once I get the sense a Peach is about to come down with a FC nair (or when her float is about to run out), I try to position myself so I can SHFFL her landing spot, especially at low %s like in your case. At higher percents when she can't CC you can try DAing.

1:00 - You engage the shield pressure and were at least safe about her options, but to get the most out of it, you could have shine grabbed or fadeaway early nair/dair. Shine grabbing, especially early in the game, really sets the tone for your shield pressure. Even if you don't get much/anything off the throw, you get her in the air and her attempts to come back down should give you opportunities for solid openings. Fading away with an aerial will usually reset the situation, but it can punish whiffed shield grabs either by hitting directly or by allowing you to do another move because you are low to the ground as opposed to DJing onto the top plat.

1:03 - I don't like those dairs at the top plat. I think most Peaches will just uair you to take the trade and potentially get a knockdown. If you dair Peach, you have no followups because she has no stun. The risk reward is just not very good. The drop through dair after was similarly risky. Before knockdown percents, there's little reason to come down with a dair vs. any character because they can jump into it and land cancel their stun. A Peach in particular would likely dsmash and deal major damage in addition to the damage from the subsequent knockdown. In fact he could have done this after that weak bair immediately after you dropped through. If Peach is grounded at low %s, your goal should be to get her out of CC percents with spaced bairs or get her in shield where you can pressure/shine grab or get her in the air by lasering.

1:08 - That is exactly the type of dair I talked about above. Peach could have dsmashed or grabbed on reaction.

1:10 - Almost every Peach likes to float out of early pillar combos like that. I utilt just like that and it sucks because they can punish really hard for it. I don't know if you can react to the float, but you can uair and it kind of covers the float out option as well as just freefalling towards the ground. Sometimes I just get out of the way and punish their landing as they try to come down with an aerial. Regardless of what you do, be aware of it.

1:24 - Maybe you just messed up, but you could have FHed that dair, and if you aren't sure if you'll reach, then just FH nair and DJ back for the ledgeguard. Her % obviously just wasn't high enough to be dairing like that.

1:30 - If you're going to go for the cheese fsmash trade, at least try to react to her float ending or know the timing of when she has to come back. But really you just shouldn't be going for that.[/collapse]
[collapse=Game 2]1:55 - LOL @ the music. I was confused for a second. XD

1:57 - Laser -> aerial doesn't work. Definitely get in the habit of DDing or shooting more lasers after lasering. You can always approach with movement because it is low commitment, but if you ever SHFFL and whiff, you need to reevaluate what you were thinking because it should really not happen, or at least not a lot. You have to be hitting their body, their shield, or making them go to great lengths to dodge (roll, jump). You also shouldn't miss that tech on the fair. If you missed it because you hard press L/R in order to L-cancel, I'd highly suggest trying to light press your cancels instead so that you don't prevent yourself from teching (you have a 40 frame window after hard presses before you can attempt another tech). This can also help with the occasional accidental airdodge off after ledge cancels or CCCs from the opponent.

2:45 - This is sort of the mixup after pillars that Peach can do instead of floating above your utilt. I think he didn't float out of this one because you daired really early and he didn't have to wait. Watch how the top Falcos do their combos, and you'll notice they always try to be FFing before the dair connects so that they get to the ground before the opponent while still maintaining a combo the whole time.

2:55 - If you are going to dair Peach out of the air at knockdown percents like this, you usually don't want to shine (or do any attack) automatically. Pay attention to where they actually land relative to you (distance in front/behind and timing of who lands first). This is where the tech chasing begins. There is no guidebook on which options to do when since it becomes a mixup game, but you should have just a few options for each scenario and choose from those. For missed tech, you usually don't want to shine because if it's staled even a little, it will knock them into the floaty state with no stun. Even if it isn't staled, utilt usually gives you easier followups on floaties (get good at turning around and utilting on reaction to missed techs/techs in place). At high percents, you can dtilt/dsmash. For TIP, and tech roll in either direction, you can aerial, fsmash, or even DA (be careful of them ground teching it though). You can also grab for pretty much every option, but Falco's grab punishes are universally worse than his other options, so unless they are particularly susceptible to getting killed by throw setups, I only grab when I know I'm too slow on the reaction to reach them before they get their shield up (even then, I sometimes opt to SHFFL into pressure because I can react to their shield and simply shine grab after the fact).

3:10 - I wouldn't bother pummeling if you plan on uthrowing since catching them off guard with no DI makes it a lot better. If they get full DI behind is kind of hard to do anything without first baiting out an attack/DJ/float.

3:15 - I try to stay off the ledge when edgeguarding Peach until she's low enough that I can LH her highest option. If a Peach notices you are giving her the high option, she'll almost always take it even if it means taking a single hit because her ledge game is very limited and 15% is way better than any chance of getting daired and dying at really low percents (for Peach anyway).

You actually stayed on stage properly right after so I guess you understand, but I'll leave that just so you know why it worked.

3:43 - You can't DJ like that. Falco's ability to drift is pretty poor, so as soon as you DJ good players will always be sharking your tiny area of possible landing spots.[/collapse]
[collapse=Overall]- Be more aware of percents. Know when certain moves will knock her down. Specific %s aren't really necessary, especially since it will depend on how low to the ground you aerial and whether or not she is CCing. You should just be able to develop a feel for it. Also use percents as a basis for your current gameplan. Do not be using KO setups or KO moves at percents where they won't work. Do not be using combo moves at inappropriate percents or you'll drop a lot of tech chases and combo opportunities. Shines at mid-high %s are especially bad vs. Peach since she'll just get out for free and you'll feel like she's living forever.

- Tighten up your tech skill. You aren't always FFing asap during SHFFLs or aerialing asap after shines, and it's leaving small gaps for aerials OoS, grabs, and also just preventing what aerials you can combo from because you are taking too long to initiate the follow up. That might also be related to hesitation, so getting a feel for KB at various percents like I described above will help you know immediately if you can go for another move or if you have to cut it short and control stage.

- Shine grab! It's more fun than you think. lol I also think it's a good tool for practicing because it doesn't take a TON of tech skill once you get the timing down. This means you can have a pretty consistent basis for how your shield pressure goes instead of randomly exploding for touching someone's shield because your FF was a frame late. If you are consistently shine grabbing and fading away with nair/dair, you are actually able to practice the neutral and out-positioning your opponent. It also helps you focus on those things because you'll be shine grabbing and uthrowing a lot which gives you good practice in combatting Peach drifting down. Just watch PP vids and study how he keeps Armada on the edges, platforms, and air. This helps for all the floaty matchups, and even helps vs. non-floaties in some scenarios.[/collapse]

 

[Zhea]

[collapse=Game 1]0:48 - If Peach is floating towards you like that, you'll probably want to FH over her. I really abuse top plats when I play this matchup because it's often the only way to avoid going through Peach, which sucks and is almost never in your favor unless you have an opening.

0:58 - Kind of nit picky, but when you drop from your respawn, you dash left for no reason at all. I guess it just seemed weird to me that you'd sort of just give up your invul and perhaps it's a sign of you autopiloting a bit. I don't always rush in on respawn ofc, but you should mixup approaching with cornering them since you literally can't be hit for a few seconds. If I saw her pull a turnip like that on my respawn, I probably would have just SHFFLed right at her because you have the low plat to work with and she can't shield grab even after your invul runs out.

Right after that, she floats and you wait it out well, but she lands in front of you and you don't really punish and end up getting hit by a jab. Once I get the sense a Peach is about to come down with a FC nair (or when her float is about to run out), I try to position myself so I can SHFFL her landing spot, especially at low %s like in your case. At higher percents when she can't CC you can try DAing.

1:00 - You engage the shield pressure and were at least safe about her options, but to get the most out of it, you could have shine grabbed or fadeaway early nair/dair. Shine grabbing, especially early in the game, really sets the tone for your shield pressure. Even if you don't get much/anything off the throw, you get her in the air and her attempts to come back down should give you opportunities for solid openings. Fading away with an aerial will usually reset the situation, but it can punish whiffed shield grabs either by hitting directly or by allowing you to do another move because you are low to the ground as opposed to DJing onto the top plat.

1:03 - I don't like those dairs at the top plat. I think most Peaches will just uair you to take the trade and potentially get a knockdown. If you dair Peach, you have no followups because she has no stun. The risk reward is just not very good. The drop through dair after was similarly risky. Before knockdown percents, there's little reason to come down with a dair vs. any character because they can jump into it and land cancel their stun. A Peach in particular would likely dsmash and deal major damage in addition to the damage from the subsequent knockdown. In fact he could have done this after that weak bair immediately after you dropped through. If Peach is grounded at low %s, your goal should be to get her out of CC percents with spaced bairs or get her in shield where you can pressure/shine grab or get her in the air by lasering.

1:08 - That is exactly the type of dair I talked about above. Peach could have dsmashed or grabbed on reaction.

1:10 - Almost every Peach likes to float out of early pillar combos like that. I utilt just like that and it sucks because they can punish really hard for it. I don't know if you can react to the float, but you can uair and it kind of covers the float out option as well as just freefalling towards the ground. Sometimes I just get out of the way and punish their landing as they try to come down with an aerial. Regardless of what you do, be aware of it.

1:24 - Maybe you just messed up, but you could have FHed that dair, and if you aren't sure if you'll reach, then just FH nair and DJ back for the ledgeguard. Her % obviously just wasn't high enough to be dairing like that.

1:30 - If you're going to go for the cheese fsmash trade, at least try to react to her float ending or know the timing of when she has to come back. But really you just shouldn't be going for that.[/collapse]
[collapse=Game 2]1:55 - LOL @ the music. I was confused for a second. XD

1:57 - Laser -> aerial doesn't work. Definitely get in the habit of DDing or shooting more lasers after lasering. You can always approach with movement because it is low commitment, but if you ever SHFFL and whiff, you need to reevaluate what you were thinking because it should really not happen, or at least not a lot. You have to be hitting their body, their shield, or making them go to great lengths to dodge (roll, jump). You also shouldn't miss that tech on the fair. If you missed it because you hard press L/R in order to L-cancel, I'd highly suggest trying to light press your cancels instead so that you don't prevent yourself from teching (you have a 40 frame window after hard presses before you can attempt another tech). This can also help with the occasional accidental airdodge off after ledge cancels or CCCs from the opponent.

2:45 - This is sort of the mixup after pillars that Peach can do instead of floating above your utilt. I think he didn't float out of this one because you daired really early and he didn't have to wait. Watch how the top Falcos do their combos, and you'll notice they always try to be FFing before the dair connects so that they get to the ground before the opponent while still maintaining a combo the whole time.

2:55 - If you are going to dair Peach out of the air at knockdown percents like this, you usually don't want to shine (or do any attack) automatically. Pay attention to where they actually land relative to you (distance in front/behind and timing of who lands first). This is where the tech chasing begins. There is no guidebook on which options to do when since it becomes a mixup game, but you should have just a few options for each scenario and choose from those. For missed tech, you usually don't want to shine because if it's staled even a little, it will knock them into the floaty state with no stun. Even if it isn't staled, utilt usually gives you easier followups on floaties (get good at turning around and utilting on reaction to missed techs/techs in place). At high percents, you can dtilt/dsmash. For TIP, and tech roll in either direction, you can aerial, fsmash, or even DA (be careful of them ground teching it though). You can also grab for pretty much every option, but Falco's grab punishes are universally worse than his other options, so unless they are particularly susceptible to getting killed by throw setups, I only grab when I know I'm too slow on the reaction to reach them before they get their shield up (even then, I sometimes opt to SHFFL into pressure because I can react to their shield and simply shine grab after the fact).

3:10 - I wouldn't bother pummeling if you plan on uthrowing since catching them off guard with no DI makes it a lot better. If they get full DI behind is kind of hard to do anything without first baiting out an attack/DJ/float.

3:15 - I try to stay off the ledge when edgeguarding Peach until she's low enough that I can LH her highest option. If a Peach notices you are giving her the high option, she'll almost always take it even if it means taking a single hit because her ledge game is very limited and 15% is way better than any chance of getting daired and dying at really low percents (for Peach anyway).

You actually stayed on stage properly right after so I guess you understand, but I'll leave that just so you know why it worked.

3:43 - You can't DJ like that. Falco's ability to drift is pretty poor, so as soon as you DJ good players will always be sharking your tiny area of possible landing spots.[/collapse]
[collapse=Overall]- Be more aware of percents. Know when certain moves will knock her down. Specific %s aren't really necessary, especially since it will depend on how low to the ground you aerial and whether or not she is CCing. You should just be able to develop a feel for it. Also use percents as a basis for your current gameplan. Do not be using KO setups or KO moves at percents where they won't work. Do not be using combo moves at inappropriate percents or you'll drop a lot of tech chases and combo opportunities. Shines at mid-high %s are especially bad vs. Peach since she'll just get out for free and you'll feel like she's living forever.

- Tighten up your tech skill. You aren't always FFing asap during SHFFLs or aerialing asap after shines, and it's leaving small gaps for aerials OoS, grabs, and also just preventing what aerials you can combo from because you are taking too long to initiate the follow up. That might also be related to hesitation, so getting a feel for KB at various percents like I described above will help you know immediately if you can go for another move or if you have to cut it short and control stage.

- Shine grab! It's more fun than you think. lol I also think it's a good tool for practicing because it doesn't take a TON of tech skill once you get the timing down. This means you can have a pretty consistent basis for how your shield pressure goes instead of randomly exploding for touching someone's shield because your FF was a frame late. If you are consistently shine grabbing and fading away with nair/dair, you are actually able to practice the neutral and out-positioning your opponent. It also helps you focus on those things because you'll be shine grabbing and uthrowing a lot which gives you good practice in combatting Peach drifting down. Just watch PP vids and study how he keeps Armada on the edges, platforms, and air. This helps for all the floaty matchups, and even helps vs. non-floaties in some scenarios.[/collapse]

Thanks, I'll try implementing this next time I face peach(hopefully today).

 

[milligraham]

What's up everyone, I'm considering using Falco more after leaving him for Sheik for roughly the past 6 months. I just cant seem to stick with a main. Anyways, I've got a few questions

1) What would be some good, simple, low tech falco players to watch and learn from?

2) I've used X for everything (except wavedashing) the entire time I've played smash. Using Y is finally starting to click, mainly because of falco's 6 frame jump, should I put the effort into improving with Y or stick with what's worked for so many years?

3) What would be some good moves, techniques, etc. to practice/get down to get do better as falco in general. I think I need to rehash my memory, I'm a little out of practice in melee in general.

 

[orvs]

What's up everyone, I'm considering using Falco more after leaving him for Sheik for roughly the past 6 months. I just cant seem to stick with a main. Anyways, I've got a few questions

1) What would be some good, simple, low tech falco players to watch and learn from?

2) I've used X for everything (except wavedashing) the entire time I've played smash. Using Y is finally starting to click, mainly because of falco's 6 frame jump, should I put the effort into improving with Y or stick with what's worked for so many years?

3) What would be some good moves, techniques, etc. to practice/get down to get do better as falco in general. I think I need to rehash my memory, I'm a little out of practice in melee in general.

1. most, if not all of the legit falcos out there are all pretty technical in some aspect even if they don't come off as super technical. if you want to learn just look at the best xD. you should watch players like dr.peepee, mang0, zhu, and westballz. however, i personally learned a lot on my own after watching the old school players, like bombsoldier, forward, pc chris, and then trying to innovate from that.

2. just do what works for you. i made the switch to y from x, because some of falco's more advanced techniques (like ledge hop double laser) were too strenuous on my fingers with x. it took about a day of conscious effort to convert to y. lol

3. besides all kinds of combos on the different characters, you should practice platform movement - like wavelanding smoothly, out of shield movement/options, and lasers (lasering at different heights, retreating lasers, double lasers off of the ledge, lasering into a grab or shine, and other creative things you can come up with, etc).

 

[shapular]

1) What would be some good, simple, low tech falco players to watch and learn from?

Check out DEHF. He's the least technical pro Falco I've seen. He's not as good as PP/Mango/Westballz but I think he's about on Zhu's level right now.

 

[bolt.]

Yo, dawgs, what are the best ways for falco to get a frame advantages over other characters.

Like low laser gives you a frame advantage that you can do numerous attacks from.
What are some examples of this when hitting a shield?

 

[L33thal]

Anyone know if it's better to shine into a platform waveland or to waveland onto platforms without shining?

 

[bolt.]

Anyone know if it's better to shine into a platform waveland or to waveland onto platforms without shining?

What are you trying to accomplish?
For pure speed no shine is better.

 

[L33thal]

What are you trying to accomplish?
For pure speed no shine is better.

Just movement in general. I want to develop a platform game instead of getting wrecked when I go up in the air.

 

[Bones0]

Yo, dawgs, what are the best ways for falco to get a frame advantages over other characters.

Like low laser gives you a frame advantage that you can do numerous attacks from.
What are some examples of this when hitting a shield?

Not really sure what you're asking. The sooner you land after hitting someone's shield, the better your frame advantage/disadvantage will be.

 

[A Revelation]

Hey Falco Boards some help if you'd like.
I've seen somewhere that someone stated that because someone else didn't understand their opponent's neutral they get hit.

I have this particular issue where I'm having a hard time understanding my opponents options from Neutral. I feel like
this is one of the reasons I get hit with some many dash attacks from Marth or full hop nairs from Fox. A dash dancing Marth
has Dash Attack, Grab, WD and Jump yet I don't quite understand how this knowledge helps me to 1. get in and 2. not get hit.

Thanks for any help in advance!

 

[Naughty Pixel]

If you know dash attack is coming you can shield grab it. Full hop Nair is a tricky one though if he's getting you with it a lot it means your approach is predictable and you need to mix it up, you can also look to bait it and punish with a well timed up tilt.

 

[alphabattack]

I know this isn't really Falco related, but people looking for Falco matches should go to vods.co
Some guy just unveiled this on r/smashbros and it is possibly the greatest thing ever. If you hover over "games" you can select no spoiler mode for all melee matches and it will cover up names. Pretty sweet.

 

[knoxvader]

^ agreed, it's pretty great.

 

[bolt.]

Not really sure what you're asking. The sooner you land after hitting someone's shield, the better your frame advantage/disadvantage will be.

I think my question is too broad and will involve a lot of research by myself.


Anyway,

How do you guys think falco should be played? Rushdown, run away, or a mix and why?

 

[Dr Peepee]

falco should be played as you want him to be played. melee is quite expressive in that regard.

for me, falco is played based not solely on preference but also matchup(player and character) and stage. I may be more conservative vs fox but more aggressive on FD, and how that plays out is partly based on which of those influences is bigger for me personally, not to mention the type of Fox I'm fighting.

 

[shapular]

falco should be played as you want him to be played. melee is quite expressive in that regard.

When I was reading this, I was thinking, "Come on, there's got to be a best way to play Falco. Who is this scrub anyway? Oh."

 

[shapular]

Hey guys, I managed to get some video of my scrub Falco on netplay. I'd appreciate it if somebody could watch a few matches and tell me what I need to work on. There's some lag, but go ahead and assume all tech error is my fault. http://www.twitch.tv/phakest/b/548677744?t=1h29m12s

 

[WaterlessFishie]

Hello flaco players.

flaco is a tough match up for me (fox) and I was wondering if any of the kinds souls in this thread could give me some pointers/critiques on some of my games in the most recent tournament I played in. *looks at pp*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2_nkdFxEzM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtOrffiZVCA

Thanks in advance!

 

[SpiderMad]

Anyone have links for tips on beating ICs?

 

[Bones0]

Hello flaco players.

flaco is a tough match up for me (fox) and I was wondering if any of the kinds souls in this thread could give me some pointers/critiques on some of my games in the most recent tournament I played in. *looks at pp*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2_nkdFxEzM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtOrffiZVCA

Thanks in advance!

You should ask for Fox advice in the Fox forums... lol...

 

[WaterlessFishie]

None of those ****** ever respond :/

 

[mooki]

None of those *****s ever respond :/

Don't sound so edgy then?

 

[whitemountain123]

is there a proper response to getting hit by marth's side b? like in particular if you get hit by the first hit and expect them to continue with the side b. i've tried sdi-ing down to get my shield up or sdi-ing past them but both with limited success. maybe it depends on % and whether i'm grounded or airborne to start?

 

[Bones0]

is there a proper response to getting hit by marth's side b? like in particular if you get hit by the first hit and expect them to continue with the side b. i've tried sdi-ing down to get my shield up or sdi-ing past them but both with limited success. maybe it depends on % and whether i'm grounded or airborne to start?

% obviously matters. I prefer to SDI through them unless they are airbone in which case I tend to SDI away. Their overall spacing is what matters most though. If you are very close to Marth's body, SDI in. If you barely got clipped by the edge of the blade, SDI away.

 

[Dakpo]

Would someone mind helping me with the jiggly match up? Is there a separate thread for that specific discussion ?

 

[Bones0]

Would someone mind helping me with the jiggly match up? Is there a separate thread for that specific discussion ?

You should definitely study PP vs. Hbox. He's got the mu down to a science, and they have tons of sets. If you have a specific question I can try to answer it since I think I'm pretty solid in that mu myself.