PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Bones0]

As Falco, (obviously) what are the better stages to play against sheik? I hear commentators talk about FoD being good for Falco, but I feel like that's only for certain matchups.

I like FD the most because Sheik gets a lot of advantages from platforms (recovery, combo wise, and getting down after your launch her).

I dislike FoD the most because her ftilt and utilt go through low plats, and you will also land on low plats from dthrow leading to guaranteed fair punishes (or ftilt fair since she can stand inside the plat and ftilt all of your tech options).

Blast zones don't seem to matter much in this matchup. If you are close to dying off the side of YS or FoD, you probably aren't making it back anyway. The majority of Sheik's KOs are from fair so the top blast zone only comes into play for your KOs, so I do give YS a bit of favor for this reason (you can get KOs from shine into FH uair instead of always trying to bair her off and edgeguard). Be careful about Sheik using the side plats on DL and, to a lesser extent, BF. If you forced an on-stage up-B with a ledgestand so you can cover all the ground options, they will usually go for the inside corner of the plats and hope you are only able to hit her further back on stage. Also, be careful about her using walljump bairs to recover on stages with good walls (on FD she can walljump needle cancel to grab the ledge).

Sheik is pretty counterpick proof, so you have to take a lot of variables into account. Just focus on what parts of your style are succeeding/failing vs. her, then focus on what parts of your opponent's style are succeeding/failing vs. you. For example, if she is having a really hard time killing you, even when you are barely making it back on stage, it'd probably be worth it to pick a stage with larger blast zones. If she is overwhelming you in neutral with platform movement, YS, BF, and FoD are probably bad picks since all of the platforms are close together.

 

[OgiEthan]

This is perfect. Thanks a lot!

 

[SpiderMad]

I can't seem to find too many uses for light shielding besides when you're certain you might get shield stabbed. I sometimes see M2K use it to get hit and fall off the platform, but I see people punish that heavily against anyone else (and it seems they're in a helpless state after falling off sometimes)

Also why did Melee make power shielding require hard press? Can't you trigger already the full shield by going decently far in the analog without having to click the hard press?

 

[Xyzz]

Probably so the larger light shield radius doesn't make reflecting projectiles easier.

Light shield can be good if you want to be pushed back further, e.g. getting out of range of a shine following an aerial, or possibly enabling you to shield grab dash attacks that tend to cross up.

 

[tauKhan]

I can't seem to find too many uses for light shielding besides when you're certain you might get shield stabbed. I sometimes see M2K use it to get hit and fall off the platform, but I see people punish that heavily against anyone else (and it seems they're in a helpless state after falling off sometimes)

You'll go into tumble if you slide off edge in shield while facing opposite direction you are sliding to. You'll go into normal fall if you face the same way you slide into, and can therefore act immediately. There are a lot of players that use this actually, Ice at least used to do this when opponent was invincible at the beginning of stocks. For yoshi this is very good since you can't tell if he's light shielding, and he can do the super slide trick also. Watch aMSa, he does these all the time.

I think the correct way to deal with the strategy is using multihit moves and grabbing against light shield at an edge. For example fox's uair is good.

 

[Neuron Bullets]

A bit off topic, but I didn't feel like this warranted a new thread. I made an account on smashboards just ten minutes ago because I couldn't find anywhere on the internet where somebody asked this question. Do you need to L-cancel to Short Hop Laser? I understand it's short hop laser fast fall, but do you need to L cancel or not?

 

[Xyzz]

Lasers will cause you to have 4 frames of landing lag, and don't require to press a button

for general info: you can only l-cancel aerials. Special moves have widely varying amounts of landing lag. Generally most recovery moves have lots of landing lag, and moves that have already done their job (usually letting some missile fly) will only cause 4 frames of landing lag.

 

[Bones0]

A bit off topic, but I didn't feel like this warranted a new thread. I made an account on smashboards just ten minutes ago because I couldn't find anywhere on the internet where somebody asked this question. Do you need to L-cancel to Short Hop Laser? I understand it's short hop laser fast fall, but do you need to L cancel or not?

Xyzz covered what you asked, but if you are curious about a specific move's lag in the future, head to the "Falco Hitbox and Frame Data" thread pinned at the top of forum (each character forum has one of these threads). It lists the landing lag of every move including L-cancel lag for aerials as well as autocancel frames. There are some moves that only have 4 frames of landing lag even when the animation isn't entirely over. During these windows you don't have to L-cancel (though it usually doesn't hurt to input it anyway). 4 frames is the same amount of lag you have from landing without doing anything at all, just for reference.

 

[Purpletuce]

Hey, I've been playing some Falco lately. Anybody want to give me some critique?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHA_wtIVIBA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HqGBftanuE

 

[alphabattack]

I could also use some falco critiques!

http://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqQcWDzt_8_wSB6brjg_asL

 

[Red Rice]

I could also use some falco critiques!

http://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqQcWDzt_8_wSB6brjg_asL

Only watched this match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X3zhZPCwBs&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqQcWDzt_8_wSB6brjg_asL&index=2
but I'll say everything I see

Spoiler

Right off the bat, at 0:02 - you miss the dair punish that you shouldn't have missed. Nair would have worked
For the next 10ish seconds you try to dair approach a lot. You get a good laser dair at 00:10 but you don't convert it to anything. Whenever you get a dair on fox, in theory, you'll always want it to lead to a shine, a grab, fsmash at higher percents, etc. Know your options.
00:13 bad ledge hop dair. It was easily punishable but the Fox messed up
00:15 you get the dair again but then dash away?
Next ten seconds are more laser dair approaches, try to mix it up. Laser grab, or just more lasers. I think you need to learn how to SHL more effectively in Falco's neutral game
00:32, you can react to Fox's missed tech with an utilt. That would have lead to a bair and an edgeguard situation
00:34 Fox whiffs the dair on your shield but you roll away. Not the best option unless you were trying to wavedash OoS -> fsmash or something like that. Otherwise, lost opportunity
00:37 That string where you get a dair > dash forward > shine > dair. That won't work all the time. It would be better to get the guaranteed dair fsmash. The fox could have teched and DI'd the shine away to survive
00:46 laser > soft bair approach. Not a good option at low percentages. You should have been punished more than a single Fox laser
00:56 That edgeguarding string. Well timed dsmash. That was a good angle from fox to avoid your dair but I think it would have hit if you stood over the edge more. You could have run off and did a retreating dair to cover all the options there
1:00 Laser > dtilt. That was a good choice in that situation because of spacing
1:08 and 1:13 dtilts but you weren't able to punish either one because you were too slow to react
1:16 Nice 3 hit combo there, fsmash again was guaranteed but that's up to you.
1:20 huge mistake. You really need to practice your laser game, neutral game and edgeguarding wise
1:45 laser > nair didn't lead to anything. Work on your punish game. Watch how PP or Mango convert off aerials and shines
1:50 good idea with the shine OoS. It would have worked if you shield DIed to the right a bit more but that won't always have to be the case.
Next 6-7 seconds, you roll too much. You need to stop rolling (not saying that rolling is bad because in some situations it is good), but you haven't been in a situation where rolling is a good option.
1:58 shine, up-b? Input error for double shining I'm guessing?
2:03 punish opportunity lost, react react react!
2:07, same thing. If fox does a FH dair on your shield, it's very easily punishable if he can't even shine after. But you spot dodge and roll away after. The roll wasn't terrible because it reset the situation and gave you more stage control. But the punish would have been better
2:14 you ran a little too far so you weren't able to punish the get up attack. In that situation, because he was close to the edge, you could have stood next to him on the right and just put up your shield. If he gets up or get up attacks, you can shield grab or shine OoS on reaction. If he rolls, you can drop your shield on reaction and punish it with an aerial OoS
2:17 happened again but it would have been harder
2:19 when the fox does a double jump, falling bair. You can just put up your shield and shine OoS that for a combo starter. Or even throw out an up tilt
2:26 after the dtilt. DAIR
2:29, good dash attack punish on the missed tech. Fsmash or dsmash would have finished him off. F-tilt was a safe option though, good.
2:31, I see you thought the fox was going to illusion up above the stage and the fox mindgamed you but missed the ledge. Wait for a bit longer on the ledge, you can react to that option or cover both a little better by dropping down a bit lower before you jump bair.
2:41 you get a dair but you don't fast fall and your momentum carries you too far forward. You can DI your aerial backwards when you get that hit confirm, leading to shines, etc etc..
2:54 you waited for the get up attack but landed with a soft bair. Dair would be a better option

Ok so just watching that first match, overall went decently against your opponent. Some major things you should work on:
SHLs - Like I said, your laser game is SUPER important as Falco. Learn to be more mobile with them and never full hop laser unless you're edgeguarding or trying to hit opponents on platforms or something
Punishes - You dropped a lot of punishes that game. At higher levels, Falco needs to convert off all his punishes on Fox. Otherwise, good Foxes will get in your face and capitalize HARD on your missed punishes.
Rolls - As of now, try to roll less and less. As you get better, you learn what situations you have to roll in, if any
Tech skill - I think you need to practice it a bit more. Against a lvl 1 bowser, handicap on, damage ratio set to 0.5, keep on doing pressure strings. Short hop aerials -> shine -> SH aerials -> shine. etc. That'll simulate hit stun so you practice your SHFFLed aerials that way. To practice shield stun, either go into vs mode and turn the invincible star on high and go to town OR go into training mode and spam the star item. Only downside to training mode is that there isn't c-stick. If you can download the 20xx hack pack, I strongly suggest it.
Something that is amazing, once you start hitting your shield pressure game, is learning how to shine grab. But work on your fundamental Falco skills first.
If you take one thing from this, Falco fundamentals are what makes him amazing. His neutral game and his punish game are god tier

Edit: I should also mention, shine OoS is super good. Shine bair OoS is super good at higher percents if your fingers are fast enough

Hope I helped

 

[alphabattack]

Only watched this match
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X3zhZPCwBs&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqQcWDzt_8_wSB6brjg_asL&index=2
but I'll say everything I see

Right off the bat, at 0:02 - you miss the dair punish that you shouldn't have missed. Nair would have worked
For the next 10ish seconds you try to dair approach a lot. You get a good laser dair at 00:10 but you don't convert it to anything. Whenever you get a dair on fox, in theory, you'll always want it to lead to a shine, a grab, fsmash at higher percents, etc. Know your options.
00:13 bad ledge hop dair. It was easily punishable but the Fox messed up
00:15 you get the dair again but then dash away?
Next ten seconds are more laser dair approaches, try to mix it up. Laser grab, or just more lasers. I think you need to learn how to SHL more effectively in Falco's neutral game
00:32, you can react to Fox's missed tech with an utilt. That would have lead to a bair and an edgeguard situation
00:34 Fox whiffs the dair on your shield but you roll away. Not the best option unless you were trying to wavedash OoS -> fsmash or something like that. Otherwise, lost opportunity
00:37 That string where you get a dair > dash forward > shine > dair. That won't work all the time. It would be better to get the guaranteed dair fsmash. The fox could have teched and DI'd the shine away to survive
00:46 laser > soft bair approach. Not a good option at low percentages. You should have been punished more than a single Fox laser
00:56 That edgeguarding string. Well timed dsmash. That was a good angle from fox to avoid your dair but I think it would have hit if you stood over the edge more. You could have run off and did a retreating dair to cover all the options there
1:00 Laser > dtilt. That was a good choice in that situation because of spacing
1:08 and 1:13 dtilts but you weren't able to punish either one because you were too slow to react
1:16 Nice 3 hit combo there, fsmash again was guaranteed but that's up to you.
1:20 huge mistake. You really need to practice your laser game, neutral game and edgeguarding wise
1:45 laser > nair didn't lead to anything. Work on your punish game. Watch how PP or Mango convert off aerials and shines
1:50 good idea with the shine OoS. It would have worked if you shield DIed to the right a bit more but that won't always have to be the case.
Next 6-7 seconds, you roll too much. You need to stop rolling (not saying that rolling is bad because in some situations it is good), but you haven't been in a situation where rolling is a good option.
1:58 shine, up-b? Input error for double shining I'm guessing?
2:03 punish opportunity lost, react react react!
2:07, same thing. If fox does a FH dair on your shield, it's very easily punishable if he can't even shine after. But you spot dodge and roll away after. The roll wasn't terrible because it reset the situation and gave you more stage control. But the punish would have been better
2:14 you ran a little too far so you weren't able to punish the get up attack. In that situation, because he was close to the edge, you could have stood next to him on the right and just put up your shield. If he gets up or get up attacks, you can shield grab or shine OoS on reaction. If he rolls, you can drop your shield on reaction and punish it with an aerial OoS
2:17 happened again but it would have been harder
2:19 when the fox does a double jump, falling bair. You can just put up your shield and shine OoS that for a combo starter. Or even throw out an up tilt
2:26 after the dtilt. DAIR
2:29, good dash attack punish on the missed tech. Fsmash or dsmash would have finished him off. F-tilt was a safe option though, good.
2:31, I see you thought the fox was going to illusion up above the stage and the fox mindgamed you but missed the ledge. Wait for a bit longer on the ledge, you can react to that option or cover both a little better by dropping down a bit lower before you jump bair.
2:41 you get a dair but you don't fast fall and your momentum carries you too far forward. You can DI your aerial backwards when you get that hit confirm, leading to shines, etc etc..
2:54 you waited for the get up attack but landed with a soft bair. Dair would be a better option

Ok so just watching that first match, overall went decently against your opponent. Some major things you should work on:
SHLs - Like I said, your laser game is SUPER important as Falco. Learn to be more mobile with them and never full hop laser unless you're edgeguarding or trying to hit opponents on platforms or something
Punishes - You dropped a lot of punishes that game. At higher levels, Falco needs to convert off all his punishes on Fox. Otherwise, good Foxes will get in your face and capitalize HARD on your missed punishes.
Rolls - As of now, try to roll less and less. As you get better, you learn what situations you have to roll in, if any
Tech skill - I think you need to practice it a bit more. Against a lvl 1 bowser, handicap on, damage ratio set to 0.5, keep on doing pressure strings. Short hop aerials -> shine -> SH aerials -> shine. etc. That'll simulate hit stun so you practice your SHFFLed aerials that way. To practice shield stun, either go into vs mode and turn the invincible star on high and go to town OR go into training mode and spam the star item. Only downside to training mode is that there isn't c-stick. If you can download the 20xx hack pack, I strongly suggest it.
Something that is amazing, once you start hitting your shield pressure game, is learning how to shine grab. But work on your fundamental Falco skills first.
If you take one thing from this, Falco fundamentals are what makes him amazing. His neutral game and his punish game are god tier

Edit: I should also mention, shine OoS is super good. Shine bair OoS is super good at higher percents if your fingers are fast enough

Hope I helped

You helped a lot! I have a huge problem with punishment, and more specifically missed techs, and since it seems like that is the thing you pointed out the most I will work on that! Thanks for the training tips, and thanks for everything in general!

 

[JDavisR (NIX)]

Does anyone have any tips on ledge hop double lasers? My timing always seems to be off, mostly that the first laser goes too high, but if I try to press be later, only one laser gets shot, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me any ways to make this easier or not.

 

[Red Rice]

You helped a lot! I have a huge problem with punishment, and more specifically missed techs, and since it seems like that is the thing you pointed out the most I will work on that! Thanks for the training tips, and thanks for everything in general!

Good! I'm glad everything makes sense.

Does anyone have any tips on ledge hop double lasers? My timing always seems to be off, mostly that the first laser goes too high, but if I try to press be later, only one laser gets shot, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me any ways to make this easier or not.

When I was first learning Falco's SHDL, I went into training mode and slowed the time down to 1/2, then 2/3, and then in real time. Once you learn it, it's really muscle memory.

 

[JDavisR (NIX)]

Good! I'm glad everything makes sense.



When I was first learning Falco's SHDL, I went into training mode and slowed the time down to 1/2, then 2/3, and then in real time. Once you learn it, it's really muscle memory.

As soon as I read this I hopped into training mode to try this method out, and its already helping a bunch, so thanks!

 

[Red Rice]

As soon as I read this I hopped into training mode to try this method out, and its already helping a bunch, so thanks!

Awesome, if you have any other questions after, feel free

 

[Bones0]

Does anyone have any tips on ledge hop double lasers? My timing always seems to be off, mostly that the first laser goes too high, but if I try to press be later, only one laser gets shot, so I was wondering if anyone could tell me any ways to make this easier or not.

The thing you need to focus on is moving from Y to B as fast as possible. You should be able to get the first laser out while you still have invulnerability, and the second should come out at around the same height (unless you intentionally DJ high and FF to get two lasers at different heights).

 

[JDavisR (NIX)]

The thing you need to focus on is moving from Y to B as fast as possible. You should be able to get the first laser out while you still have invulnerability, and the second should come out at around the same height (unless you intentionally DJ high and FF to get two lasers at different heights).

Is it possible to use X? I use X for everything else, it just feels more natural to me, but if Y is the only way then I'll use it

 

[Bones0]

Is it possible to use X? I use X for everything else, it just feels more natural to me, but if Y is the only way then I'll use it

Y is easier for virtually all techniques that require you to press Y -> B or B -> Y in quick succession. The major obstacles are jump cancelling shines, multishines, LHDLs, and recoveries where you have to side-B/up-B immediately after jumping. I don't use X so I can't really comment on how much more difficult it is, but PP uses X so it can't be THAT bad. That being said, if you feel like you could switch to Y, it might save you headache in the long run.

 

[JDavisR (NIX)]

Y is easier for virtually all techniques that require you to press Y -> B or B -> Y in quick succession. The major obstacles are jump cancelling shines, multishines, LHDLs, and recoveries where you have to side-B/up-B immediately after jumping. I don't use X so I can't really comment on how much more difficult it is, but PP uses X so it can't be THAT bad. That being said, if you feel like you could switch to Y, it might save you headache in the long run.

I'll try using Y and see if it becomes any easier. If it does then I guess I can either switch to Y or at the very least learn Y so I can have a reasonable comparison of the two in order to make a decision

 

[tauKhan]

I think Y -> B is too short distance for falco jump shine. It's difficult at least for me to do consistent multishine with y since it's so easy to slide too fast. X is better because it's much harder to go too fast from x. With fox y is better.

 

[Zenox]

Is it possible to use X? I use X for everything else, it just feels more natural to me, but if Y is the only way then I'll use it

Yes I use X and can doubleshine somewhat consistently. Westballz apparently uses X so that's proof within itself that X is viable in terms of technicality. It all comes down to muscle memory. Just practice practice practice

 

[alphabattack]

I'm back again! Could some one critique these sets I played yesterday? Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euqrfsa1gKU&index=2&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfpp_KcSoKc&index=3&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8FF9EDfk88&index=4&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucPfGGOmNUE&index=5&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wx9qzvnIUk&index=6&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK

 

[Red Rice]

I'm back again! Could some one critique these sets I played yesterday? Thanks!

When I get a chance later I will. It was kind of fun last time unless you want a new perspective

 

[Purpletuce]

He gets two and I get none? Outshadowed . . .

 

[alphabattack]

When I get a chance later I will. It was kind of fun last time unless you want a new perspective

Your perspective was awesome! The only issue is that I have a tough time incorporating advice into my play, so you may see the same mistakes as last time.

 

[Red Rice]

Your perspective was awesome! The only issue is that I have a tough time incorporating advice into my play, so you may see the same mistakes as last time.

No worries, you can't expect to completely fix all your mistakes overnight. One step at a time dawg

He gets two and I get none? Outshadowed . . .

LOL, I could critique your vids too if you wanted, I just missed them sorry! Didn't know people would actually want me to critique them

 

[L33thal]

Is multishining crucial for Falco? I have all the other basic techs down, but I keep getting caught up whenever I try to multishine or I multishine too slow. I use the X button, but I've heard a lot of fast Falco players use Y. I've tried using Y but it just felt really "cramped", like I'd press A instead of B and I can't follow up after a double shine. Can anyone help me or give me tips? Thanks.

 

[Bones0]

Is multishining crucial for Falco? I have all the other basic techs down, but I keep getting caught up whenever I try to multishine or I multishine too slow. I use the X button, but I've heard a lot of fast Falco players use Y. I've tried using Y but it just felt really "cramped", like I'd press A instead of B and I can't follow up after a double shine. Can anyone help me or give me tips? Thanks.

It's definitely possible with X, just a little harder. The great thing about multishines are that accidentally pressing A between B and X shouldn't mess you up because you are either in jumpsquat or shine where A inputs don't result in anything. Overall though, multishining is not very critical as evidenced by the fact that even PP and Mango don't use it. There's nothing wrong with leaving it out of your game and focusing on more important stuff. You can always revisit it later and add it into your game.

 

[Red Rice]

I'm going to critique one Fox and one Sheik game. Against the Fox first on YS
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfpp_KcSoKc&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK&index=2)

Spoiler

Started off well but then
0:07 missed a wavedash out of the shine and FHed instead
0:13 good followup with the platform shine, I would have dair'd instead of uair'd after though
0:16 you get stuck in your shield for a long time and he just grabs you raw
0:20 when the Fox fsmashes your shield, you could have punished with a shield grab or shine OoS. It looks like you were a little too slow with your aerial OoS and got shined because of it. You should have lost the stock in that situation but the Fox messes up
0:24 you've done a few empty lasers so far this game, nothing too serious to worry about though
0:27 not you but tell your friend to stop d-throwing as Fox, use uthrow....... wtf?
0:29 that missed bair led to you losing a stock. It didn't help that you SDed
0:37 if you're going to fall through plats with an aerial, don't do them that early. Otherwise it's an easy shield grab or punish
0:40 good reaction
0:47 make sure you can consistently JC your grabs. Watching that grab lag hurts my soul
0:48 missed another wavedash out of shine
1:07 should have been a stock
1:12 were you trying not to wavedash out of your shine in this situation?
1:17 falling bair mess up?
1:26 bad situation, in that moment it was up to chance. You could have delayed your get up a little later and react to when fox tries to aerial you. You can time is so that your get up has invincibility, but that takes some reaction
1:31 missed a fast fall, nbd
1:45 you can read/react to the tech with an fsmash. 9 out of 10 times, players will naturally roll toward center stage (at higher levels, people mix up their techs more but at your level people generally roll in)
1:51 I hate it when CPUs do that. I used to be able to tech it but I forgot the timing. Anyways, stupid janky stuff from fox
1:55 dair > shine? If you were going for shine bair or something, it's a little unnecessary. Nair or bair would have killed
2:11 I think you need to practice your pillar combos, you shouldn't be messing them up
2:35 happens again.
Also your approach game is a little predictable, mix it up with some
2:47 good patience, you waited and reacted to that roll, could have ended it with an fsmash or got him off stage with a bair or something
2:51 good idea, just BARELY mis spaced it

Generally, the same things I said before. Work on your tech skills, punishes, and finishers. The tech skill is more important because and the punishes and finishers will easily follow

Alpha (Falco) vs Arctic (Sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8FF9EDfk88&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK&index=3

Spoiler

0:12 bad roll = you got grabbed for it
0:16 you just stay in shield for 2 seconds? Falco doesn't like being stuck in shield
0:20 continue that combo with an utilt
0:29 once you get more experience, you'll know what to do in certain situations. For example, here, it's clear to me that once you fell off the platform, he was going to either roll or get up. So you could have waited a little longer and reacted to which get up option he chose
0:32 got stuck on the top platform, missed a punish, self-explanatory
0:37, missed the FH bair and instead did a FH fair?
0:41, the sheik should have gimped you, nothing else really
0:44 you were fishing for the laser fsmash and the fsmash was really poorly spaced. It should have been an easy shield grab for sheik, back throw, and edgeguard
0:53 an instance where I would have shine bair'd OoS which would have killed. I really suggest learning it as it improves your OoS game. But once you learn it, you can't be fishing for it
0:55 should have just bair'd/nair'd instead of shining
1:02 sheiks almost ALWAYS recover with a fair if they're close enough to the stage - and that's that stock gone. Don't go out there unless you're timing it after the fair recovery. Instead what I like to do is wavedash back to the ledge for invincibility. Then the fair doesn't hit and then they have to up-b on the stage. Sheik's recovery on stage is garbage and is beyond easy to punish.
1:11 missed your fast fall, that bair would have been a hard hit
1:18 STOP ROLLING INTO SHEIK. OR ROLLING IN GENERAL. AT LEAST FOR NOW
1:25 missed an easy shine, at least you were crouch canceling but you shouldn't have d-smashed at low percent
1:28 you get the spot dodge but just barely missed the punish. Nothing much to say here except anticipate the whiff grab so you get the punish sooner
1:31 instead of uair, I would have shined -> waveland on top plat -> utilt -> follow up etc.
1:37ish your approaches are generally predictable because you always land the aerial right in front of the person. This makes it really easy to wave dash back and punish you. Mix up your approaches, try and land behind the persons shield. This will cut your opponent's options OoS down.
1:44 lol MattDotZeb punish
1:48 that was a REALLY good dash dance to avoid the falling nair
1:55, you're pretty good at running shines (good). You should have wavelanded off the top platform (so you slide off) -> jump -> bair. One of my all time favorite Falco strings. It looks slick as hell
1:59 I'm guessing that was an accidental ledge attack. You have a lot of time to react if sheik recovers on stage
2:22 missed shine, gotta practice that tech skill
2:26 so you hit the dair, but your momentum carried you past sheik so that your shine was no where close to her. I do this sometimes because of muscle memory unfortunately. If you land an aerial but aren't close enough to shine, don't because you will get punished - especially if your opponent is at low percents
2:38, dropped the combo
2:40 - throw out the anti-air utilt a little sooner. But I'm guessing it trades with sheik's dair
2:43 - seems like you have a hard time dropping through plats. Practice your movement on platformed stages
2:47 bad approach in at least two ways. 1, you aerialed right in front of him without even hitting him. 2, approaching with fair is not safe
2:55 good read
3:05 you should be able to utilt there
3:11 you miss the shine after the dair because you did it too early. Either delay the shine or go for an utilt
3:28 grab the ledge instead of standing there
3:32 if he ever dash attacks your shield, it should be a punish. Same goes for every character. Dash attacks on shield should not go unpunished

When you're playing against sheik, if you get her off stage and are able to grab the ledge, do so. Forcing Sheik to recover high and onto the stage destroys her recovery options. And to reiterate, you have to solidify your tech skill so that you don't miss punishes. SHFFL'd aerials, continuing combos, etc..

@ Purpletuce you're next!

 

[52pickup]

Hi guys, my friend and I played some matches, and he recorded them.

http://youtu.be/xcFt7UUV5ig?t=23m53s

I'm the Falco. Any tips? I feel like i do a lot of unnecessary stuff and I put myself in danger too much...and I don't think I make the best choices all the time lol. Any tips?

Ty in advance!

 

[Red Rice]

Falco vs Marth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHA_wtIVIBA

Spoiler

0:09 - Typical Falco nair approaches are can easily be dash danced grabbed by a decent Marth, leads to losing the stock if you're playing against m2k lol-
0:12 - Try not to shine out of muscle memory when you get a dair. If you can tell that the shine won't hit, opt to grab
0:21 high risk, high reward dash attack
0:24 utilt here, it extends the combo - could have possibly killed off the top with a shine after
0:25 great shield drop bair. I really need to learn to incorporate that into my game
0:45 it's natural to tech into the center but it was bad here because you teched right into marth's grab.
1:00 bad FH dair. Instead, wavedash/walk off/fall through and space a bair
1:04 - 1:08 good stage control, kept Marth at the edge and he couldn't get in
1:09 - after the dash attack, I would have tech chased the platform with a shine -> waveland on plat -> shield pressure, etc. etc.
1:15 - you made the option choice with a guaranteed dsmash. Utilt -> to more dairs if you wanted to go for maximum combos. Or u-tilt bair. etc etc.
1:19 - good spacing on the falling bair
1:21 - refresh your invincibility by dropping down and instantly jump away from the stage and then DI toward the stage to avoid a potential early up-b. You can edgehog/edgeguard easily this way and is pretty safe if you get the timing
1:29 not a good side-b onto the stage, go for ledge
1:34 good mix up recovery with the top plat
1:54 - good awareness not to side-b with the danger of d-tilt and good angle with the up-b
2:00 ledge hop double lasers aren't safe with an opponent standing right there. Especially with Marth's disjointed moves
2:09 - you opt for bair guaranteed damage, I would go for a shine waveland combo starter.
2:11 - Bad dash attack, easy for marth to wavedash or dash dance away and grab
2:36 - you leaned back after your dair. Aim for the center of the platform and you can cover every option
2:51 - another good shield drop bair to get out of Marth platform pressure
2:53 - try to learn, if you haven't already, shine grabbing. It's the most guaranteed shield pressure option and is an amazing mix up

Watching the rest of your videos against Marth, I don't see any huge gaps in your play. Something I did notice though, is that you seem to have a hard time edgeguarding him. Against a Marth that sweetspots, there's nothing much you can do other than refresh your invincibility and edgehog. If he goes a little above the stage, you can space a diagonal ftilt (really good for any MU IMO), crouch cancel a dsmash (mango goes for that a lot). If he gets the ledge, try to react/anticipate his off the ledge options and cover them with spaced bairs.

I can do the Sheik match tomorrow if you still want me to, I'm super tired right now. I don't know how much this will actually help you, a better Falco main should critique you I think because the things I'm saying, you probably already know

 

[Fish&Herbs19]

Falco vs Marth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHA_wtIVIBA
Watching the rest of your videos against Marth, I don't see any huge gaps in your play. Something I did notice though, is that you seem to have a hard time edgeguarding him. Against a Marth that sweetspots, there's nothing much you can do other than refresh your invincibility and edgehog.

I'll try and add a little bit of my own advice. I didn't watch all of the matches, but a couple things I suggest you learn and implement are the light shield edgehog and shortening your Side B's. The light shield edge-hog basically guarantees a free punish or kill on Marth. Its extremely useful and sets ups for some really good punishes and kills. Shortening your side B's is extremely useful for avoiding tippered down tilts and f-smashes and mixing up your recovery. It only took me about 30 minutes in the lab to learn, and I can do it pretty consistently now.

That's all I have for now

 

[alphabattack]

Alpha (Falco) vs Arctic (Sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8FF9EDfk88&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK&index=3

Spoiler

0:12 bad roll = you got grabbed for it
0:16 you just stay in shield for 2 seconds? Falco doesn't like being stuck in shield
0:20 continue that combo with an utilt
0:29 once you get more experience, you'll know what to do in certain situations. For example, here, it's clear to me that once you fell off the platform, he was going to either roll or get up. So you could have waited a little longer and reacted to which get up option he chose
0:32 got stuck on the top platform, missed a punish, self-explanatory
0:37, missed the FH bair and instead did a FH fair?
0:41, the sheik should have gimped you, nothing else really
0:44 you were fishing for the laser fsmash and the fsmash was really poorly spaced. It should have been an easy shield grab for sheik, back throw, and edgeguard
0:53 an instance where I would have shine bair'd OoS which would have killed. I really suggest learning it as it improves your OoS game. But once you learn it, you can't be fishing for it
0:55 should have just bair'd/nair'd instead of shining
1:02 sheiks almost ALWAYS recover with a fair if they're close enough to the stage - and that's that stock gone. Don't go out there unless you're timing it after the fair recovery. Instead what I like to do is wavedash back to the ledge for invincibility. Then the fair doesn't hit and then they have to up-b on the stage. Sheik's recovery on stage is garbage and is beyond easy to punish.
1:11 missed your fast fall, that bair would have been a hard hit
1:18 STOP ROLLING INTO SHEIK. OR ROLLING IN GENERAL. AT LEAST FOR NOW
1:25 missed an easy shine, at least you were crouch canceling but you shouldn't have d-smashed at low percent
1:28 you get the spot dodge but just barely missed the punish. Nothing much to say here except anticipate the whiff grab so you get the punish sooner
1:31 instead of uair, I would have shined -> waveland on top plat -> utilt -> follow up etc.
1:37ish your approaches are generally predictable because you always land the aerial right in front of the person. This makes it really easy to wave dash back and punish you. Mix up your approaches, try and land behind the persons shield. This will cut your opponent's options OoS down.
1:44 lol MattDotZeb punish
1:48 that was a REALLY good dash dance to avoid the falling nair
1:55, you're pretty good at running shines (good). You should have wavelanded off the top platform (so you slide off) -> jump -> bair. One of my all time favorite Falco strings. It looks slick as hell
1:59 I'm guessing that was an accidental ledge attack. You have a lot of time to react if sheik recovers on stage
2:22 missed shine, gotta practice that tech skill
2:26 so you hit the dair, but your momentum carried you past sheik so that your shine was no where close to her. I do this sometimes because of muscle memory unfortunately. If you land an aerial but aren't close enough to shine, don't because you will get punished - especially if your opponent is at low percents
2:38, dropped the combo
2:40 - throw out the anti-air utilt a little sooner. But I'm guessing it trades with sheik's dair
2:43 - seems like you have a hard time dropping through plats. Practice your movement on platformed stages
2:47 bad approach in at least two ways. 1, you aerialed right in front of him without even hitting him. 2, approaching with fair is not safe
2:55 good read
3:05 you should be able to utilt there
3:11 you miss the shine after the dair because you did it too early. Either delay the shine or go for an utilt
3:28 grab the ledge instead of standing there
3:32 if he ever dash attacks your shield, it should be a punish. Same goes for every character. Dash attacks on shield should not go unpunished

When you're playing against sheik, if you get her off stage and are able to grab the ledge, do so. Forcing Sheik to recover high and onto the stage destroys her recovery options. And to reiterate, you have to solidify your tech skill so that you don't miss punishes. SHFFL'd aerials, continuing combos, etc..

!

Thanks for the tips! I will endeavor to stop rolling, but since that is my go to tactic, what should I use instead? I'm assuming wavedash OoS, so how safe is that move? I figure pretty safe because worst comes to worst I could wavedash back into shield, but I'm not too sure. Also, I have trouble punishing attacks on shield because I hit a move too early, and I'm either still in shieldstun, or I do my move while they are still attacking my shield with a multihit move, so it trades. I know how to stop doing the second one (Just wait a little longer), but how do I know when I can attack out of shieldstun? Thanks again!

EDIT: Thanks for the positive stuff as well. That comment about the good dash dance was really encouraging!

 

[Red Rice]

Thanks for the tips! I will endeavor to stop rolling, but since that is my go to tactic, what should I use instead? I'm assuming wavedash OoS, so how safe is that move? I figure pretty safe because worst comes to worst I could wavedash back into shield, but I'm not too sure. Also, I have trouble punishing attacks on shield because I hit a move too early, and I'm either still in shieldstun, or I do my move while they are still attacking my shield with a multihit move, so it trades. I know how to stop doing the second one (Just wait a little longer), but how do I know when I can attack out of shieldstun? Thanks again!

EDIT: Thanks for the positive stuff as well. That comment about the good dash dance was really encouraging!

Yeah, focus on your other movement options. If you're talking about what to do OoS, learn your options OoS in specific situations. Like if Sheik hits your shield with a dsmash and pushes you far away enough so that you can't shine or aerial out of shield, you have to react to that and wavedash OoS > shine or grab, etc. Other options I talked about were shine OoS, shine bair OoS, buffering the roll in certain situations is good. To answer your question about when your opponent hits your shield, you just have to learn the timings and know what you can/can't punish OoS. There are so many situations you'll have to recognize and as you play more, you'll begin to see patterns - I can't really teach you every situation because there are countless situations. But it's really about the timing and keeping your cool under pressure.

Edit: A little unrelated but something I do with Fox/Falco is that I dash dance and shield relatively close to them. Mango calls it attacking with your shield and it's really good because it'll bait out a lot of moves and then the spacies' OoS game is pretty strong so then I'll punish them for hitting my shield. It's also good in the sense that when you're in your shield, it gives you a lot of time to react to what the opponent is doing or going to do. It lets me see the options and react to it. You might or might not want to do that depending on your own playstyle though. I think it's a little better with Fox though because he's pretty darn fast

 

[Purpletuce]

Thanks for the feedback Red Rice and Fish&Herbs. Any new perspective is welcome!

 

[mooki]

I'm back again! Could some one critique these sets I played yesterday? Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euqrfsa1gKU&index=2&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfpp_KcSoKc&index=3&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8FF9EDfk88&index=4&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucPfGGOmNUE&index=5&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wx9qzvnIUk&index=6&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK

I just opened the first one, skipped into it and saw something I thought I should tell you. At 0:22 after you hit the Fox with the firebird, I personally would have gone for an up-tilt instead of the up-air. The way I see it, the up-tilt is safer and less of a commitment while fox still has a jump, and it will lead into a better follow-up most of the time. Just a little something for you to think about.

Edit: Oh, and at 0:48 you mess up a bread and butter combo with a full hop, so it looks like your tech skill needs to be smoothed out.

I've never critiqued someone, so I hope you find these comments helpful.

Edit2: I need to record some of my own play and put it up here for people to critique.

 

[visionzzz]

I recently switched from a sheik main to falco, and naturally I am trying to become better. I was wondering if anyone could offer and advice of how to waveshine, because my fingers often feel jumbled and I did not really find any tutorials explaining any techniques. Any other tips or tricks would be awesome.

 

[Ijuka]

I'm back again! Could some one critique these sets I played yesterday? Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euqrfsa1gKU&index=2&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfpp_KcSoKc&index=3&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8FF9EDfk88&index=4&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucPfGGOmNUE&index=5&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wx9qzvnIUk&index=6&list=PLXIrz7kYgXZqeyDw3ILQhCasikKEb4_vK

Just one match randomly chosen.

Match #4:

00:03 Just standing lasers nonstop is too predictable and easily punishable if the opponent isn't full-screen, you need to vary it up more.

00:09 Lasers -> SHFFL aerial is the most predictable manner of approach. You should be eaten alive for doing that. No shines after aerials is bad as well.

00:10, 00:21 etc: Work on punishing better from shield. Shieldgrab, shine out of shield, SHFFL aerial(generally dair), shieldwavedash -> whatever are generally your best options.

00:23 Nair instead of dair here. If he did bair asap you wouldn't have had the priority necessary. Dair might potentially lead into better damage, but on the other hand your opponent could also have teched and nair would either grant you either a followup or an edgeguard attempt.

00:29, 00:43 etc: Ledgejump dair is the most predictable thing ever. Most players will either SHFF fair or wavedash -> dsmash these every time for free kills. Personally I would do something like this extremely rarely, if ever.

00:52: Would have done SHFFL dair hitting on the left side here. Best potential followups. Might be nitpicking.

00:55 walking up and dsmashing isn't safe. If he just got up, your dsmash would have missed and you could have been bthrown into death.

1:01, 1:09 etc: You practically always want to waveshine instead of just jumping during shinecombos because it allows you to see where the opponent is and follow them and still be in time to combo after shine.

1:03 SHFFL Nair makes no sense here. My first instict was wavedashing back but either way, you cannot challenge Sheik's fair like that.

1:09 Fastfall dairing after your double jump is extremely predictable and after a while will get punished every time by things like wavedash -> dsmash or ftilt.

1:14 that's not a safe way to recover and was a free edgeguard if the Sheik player wasn't very bad. You should try to recover right next to the stage so that you can at least techwalljump off it when the Sheik comes to gimp you. You were at too low a % for that but even so it's still safer as you can at least walltech a dsmash more easily.

1:24 those aren't safe lasers. You are supposed to time them to hit the opponent when they are landing from their jump, not spamming them as fast as possible and leaving yourself open.

1:28 again predictable dair, another free wavedash backwards -> dsmash if the opponent pays any attention.

1:33 note that while this laser did hit the opponent while they were falling(but only because they used bair at that timing), I still would prefer to fire the laser from a little further back and close in with a dash-SHFFL'd aerial. It's very risky to jump forward with the laser like that, even if it worked out this time.

1:36 I'm not sure if you're still trying to challenge with SHFFL nair or what, but that was an obvious wavedash backwards, what the Sheik was doing was completely telegraphed.

1:44 straight dash-attack with no lasers and no setup is not a very good idea.



Overall, you're pretty slowl and seem rather predictable. The opponent was a very weak and predictable player and you need to be able to abuse that better. Your combo routes aren't very good and seem to rely on your opponent being unable to tech or DI properly(Especially the combo from 2:13 on should have dropped after the first shine and you can jump out of it after the first dair after shine).

You never tech in place and only techroll and if you do that, tech chasing you with boost grab is child's play no matter how well you vary the left and right techrolls if you mix in no stand techs. You are too risky and predictable with your lasers, you aren't supposed to be firing them nonstop except perhaps when you're like fullscreen. You need to mix it up better off the ledge(ledgehop dair is the first thing anyone will expect you to do) as well. You need to learn the time to be more patient and space with wavedashes backwards or something similiar instead of challenging higher priority attacks headon that you can see coming from a mile away.

It's hard to give very good advice when you win the match / play against a worse player. Perhaps I'll do a second video later.

edit: Nevermind, none of these videos are good. It's suggested you play against a better player next time, one that would perhaps 3-stock you every time or so. Those are much easier to give advice for and I don't need to be all "Well, even though it worked because your opponent is bad, this isn't good to do".

 

[L33thal]

Can anyone critique/give advice for my Falco?

http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/536378639

From 19:25 to 21:35.

I'm new to the tourney scene and I've never had a match recorded before, so I want to study and learn from my mistakes.