PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[Monib]

This is just a general question, but what does it mean to "buffer" something? (i.e. buffer a roll)

 

[Mogwai]

Buffering a move means putting the input in ahead of time so that it comes out on the first actionable frame. Buffering in Melee is pretty much always talking about buffering a jump, roll, or spotdodge out of shield via holding the c-stick in the desired direction, which will buffer the move once your character can move (typically as you're coming out of shield stun, though you can easily observe how buffering works by just holding a direction on the c-stick while shielding to spam rolls/dodges/jumps).

 

[Monib]

I see, so I Guess this could be useful if you're being shield pressured pretty strictly where you only have a few frames to do something. Thanks m8!

 

[SUNG666]

How many frames of free invulnerability do you have from a perfect ledge dash?

 

[Bones0]

How many frames of free invulnerability do you have from a perfect ledge dash?

I think it's 14.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

i will be trying really hard to improve, thanks for the matches all
i have what i need, just need to learn how to use it lol, so basically i will be playing hella people trying to get all the advice i can get
and learn to not suck rofl

 

[Monib]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXnIedq58N4&feature=player_detailpage#t=4

 

[ArcNatural]

You pretty much nailed it with that response . You're right though, I am new to the comp. scene and I really didn't know a lot of options with falco. Sure the combos I could hit pretty damn consistently but spacies / footsies....*fart* I was trash.
Slowly improving on it though! (Y)
Oh yeah and on the note of hitting a shield, if I cross em up (lets say, with a bair) can it go through a full shield (like one that covers the body) or does it not matter which direction he's facing?

Just curious do you shine waveland on platforms for combos at all? Trying to get an idea of your skill level. As for the cross up question. If you mean can you actually go through them (like do a nair/bair/dair/etc.) and go from in front to behind or vice versa. The answer is yes, just depends on a lot of factors like your spacing, momentum and when you aerial.

If you're talking about shield stabbing that's much more complicated. Short answer is yes but would be dependent on a lot of factors such as if they were angling their shield in the wrong direction. Marth in particular if he doesn't angle shield can always be shield stabbed if you hit the right spots.

 

[Squirt]

AAAND we're back :D I'll be posting videos for critique later.

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

I just wanna say that dair into pivot shai drop bair is the best combo in the game.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

I just wanna say that dair into pivot shai drop bair is the best combo in the game.

yo when people say pivot shai drop, thats like doing a turnaround shield drop before you start moving forward right? lol sometimes i cant understand all this extra ****

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

Yeah, pretty much. It's dairing forward then turning around and instantly shield dropping with a bair.

 

[Bones0]

I won my first Smash tournament!

Spoiler

It was an 8-man, $1 Project M tourney...
Got 2nd place in Melee (**** Luigi UGH Vist2gud)

 

[Mahone]

bones for the love of god just dair grab vist more

 

[Bones0]

Throws sucks so bad vs. Luigi though. lol

I think I might try dair dtilt or something.

 

[Mahone]

ya, kinda, although u were baiting him into nairing on the way down, so i think u could have taken advantage, but ya just, don't ALWAYS dair shine, especially when u cross him up

also u did some terrble lasers that didn't seem to have a purpose to me, but i dont really understand lasers so im not too sure about that one


if u wanna get on skype i can talk more about it

 

[Bones0]

ya, kinda, although u were baiting him into nairing on the way down, so i think u could have taken advantage, but ya just, don't ALWAYS dair shine, especially when u cross him up

also u did some terrble lasers that didn't seem to have a purpose to me, but i dont really understand lasers so im not too sure about that one


if u wanna get on skype i can talk more about it

Yeah, I guess I will try uthrowing and punishing whiffs. I definitely wasn't focusing on lasers as much as I should have. I feel like I know how to use them pretty well vs. Luigi, I just was more worried about my platform movement. I noticed a lot of bad DJs this tourney, so I'm going to focus on that as well.

Vids:

Bones (Falco) vs. GIMR (Falco)
http://www.twitch.tv/m/256805

WF: Bones (Falco) vs. Vist (Luigi)
http://www.twitch.tv/m/256844

LF: Bones (Falco) vs. Omni (Sheik)
http://www.twitch.tv/m/256847

GF: Bones (Falco) vs. Vist (Luigi)
http://www.twitch.tv/m/256864

 

[Willy OD]

Sup guys, i'm willing to take my marth matchup to the next level !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLq3vYG9qs

I constantly lose against this guy. Most of the time it's because i got stressed out by marth punish game, so i rush him down like a noob whenever i take a hit. Obviously, that causes more doom then ever (you can see my despair growing up here - last match lol).
But even when i'm calm, playing well most of the match, he always have the gimp advantage, and it ends up depressing me lol. I have no clue how falco can take the edge besides playing perfectly 4 stocks straight, for each match of a best of 5. Do I have to be like 3 times better than him to win ? I certainly am missing some things. Details that could help me keep my head clear (or at least make me feel that this matchup is winnable without having to be a TAS ).
I'd like you to enlighten me Thanks.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

gj bones, you gonna try and make it next week? cuz im confirmed going on tuesdays up until a tourney

i got alot better since my first time

 

[Squidster]

Sup guys, i'm willing to take my marth matchup to the next level !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLq3vYG9qs

I constantly lose against this guy. Most of the time it's because i got stressed out by marth punish game, so i rush him down like a noob whenever i take a hit. Obviously, that causes more doom then ever (you can see my despair growing up here - last match lol).
But even when i'm calm, playing well most of the match, he always have the gimp advantage, and it ends up depressing me lol. I have no clue how falco can take the edge besides playing perfectly 4 stocks straight, for each match of a best of 5. Do I have to be like 3 times better than him to win ? I certainly am missing some things. Details that could help me keep my head clear (or at least make me feel that this matchup is winnable without having to be a TAS ).
I'd like you to enlighten me Thanks.

I feel like you have both the tech skill and the game knowledge to beat marths of this skill level but you let him get in your head. Don't ask yourself how much better you have to be than your opponent in order to beat them, that's not a productive question and it'll only make you discouraged. It's a hard matchup for both sides.

You definitely play more and more reckless the longer the series goes on. Match 1 and 2 you bait and punish a lot, match 3 and 4 you jump in and get punished a lot. It can be really tough for marth to get a hold of falco. Yes, he punishes hard, but it’s hard for him to hit you.

Try to pay attention to his habits. A couple things to really look out for marth:
1. short hop (or full hop) fair.
This punishes the really obvious running into him looking for a hit. Be it a close laser, a shffl areal or even a grab, if he sees it coming, he can fair you out of it. Match 4 he did a lot of standing until you get ancy, then fairing you out of your hit.
Punish by dash dashing and baiting it with a dair or grab. Sometimes you can run up shield -> bair oos.

2. Dash dance grab
It's really easy to get impatient when you're kind of close to a marth and just short hop dair into him. A wiffed areal is a free grab for marth. Laser to avoid his dash dacne, if he's too close to you to laser, be cautious. Go to a platform, run away and get space to laser, or safely approach in a way that your areal can't be dodged by running away.

I highly suggest you watch the whole series again and just take note of what you do every time the position is neutral. Do you run up and areal, laser grab, laser laser laser, jump up to a platform? Is it obvious, repetitive predictable? Is there something that NEVER works? What is marth doing in these positions?

After, go watch a video of zhu, pp or mango (or whoever your favorite falco is) and do the same thing. Pause when the position is neutral and take note (maybe even write down) what is done by both side and who wins out that position. Note that sometimes it takes a long time to get back to neutral after marth gets a hit since you’re just being combo’d tech chased for awhile. Melee is hard work, haha.

 

[Bones0]

Sup guys, i'm willing to take my marth matchup to the next level !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrLq3vYG9qs

I constantly lose against this guy. Most of the time it's because i got stressed out by marth punish game, so i rush him down like a noob whenever i take a hit. Obviously, that causes more doom then ever (you can see my despair growing up here - last match lol).
But even when i'm calm, playing well most of the match, he always have the gimp advantage, and it ends up depressing me lol. I have no clue how falco can take the edge besides playing perfectly 4 stocks straight, for each match of a best of 5. Do I have to be like 3 times better than him to win ? I certainly am missing some things. Details that could help me keep my head clear (or at least make me feel that this matchup is winnable without having to be a TAS ).
I'd like you to enlighten me Thanks.

[collapse=Game 1: Final Destination]
- Don't strike to FD. I've explained why it's for sure the worst stage for the matchup kinda recently in this thread so you can scroll back a page or 2 and read up on it.

1:15 - Great grab off the start, but dairing from uthrow doesn't make much sense at that percent, especially since you did a rising dair and won't be able to FF to the ground without getting hit. Uthrow fair, especially at 0%. Trust me.

1:20 - Jabbing airborne Marth like that doesn't work. They can fair/uair immediately after and completely turn around the momentum. If you DA and they DI like that, turn around utilt is really good and leads into pillars.

1:23 - React to his missed tech from your dair with a utilt.

1:25 - You overcommitted too much with that instant DJ bair. I try to only do that sort of DJ when they are absolutely pinned and can't get away, but if you do it and realize you could get DD grabbed, abort and WL away from them. Alternatively, you can empty land and utilt, but that's riskier because they might be expecting and waiting for an action after an aerial before going in to grab you.

1:38 - That LH was way to dangerous and didn't do anything for you. You should typically be ledgedashing or LH Phantasming with invul. You can firestall to mix up the timing/reset your invul if you need to, but don't get predictable with it or they'll just dtilt you.

1:40 - If you just go grab the ledge there it's a free invul LH bair.

1:50 - You could have hit that LH bair. You should have grabbed the ledge sooner and you would have been able to react to his side-B. Even with the timing you had you still could have went lower and gotten him. Make sure you're really familiar with how much invul you have so you can do the deepest LH bairs possible while being safe from DJ aerial stage spikes.

2:00 - Idk if you simply missed the WD and SHed by accident, but you should definitely be waveshining after that dair. Also, you got lucky he didn't just shield grab your dair because you did it super early and committed from pretty far away. Get into the habit of dairing late or aborting the SHFFL all together when it's possible from them to shield or avoid it.

2:24 - Don't hesitate on that LH bair. I'm guessing you thought you got faired, but if you had been hit by it then you're dead anyway. You might as well assume you will grab the ledge in that instance and be ready for the bair.

2:42 - You do the same overcommitted instant DJ aerial that I talked about earlier.

2:45 - Good shine out to DJ dair. You shielded because you knew he would attack which is okay, but I think I would have just traded a utilt because you were low %, it keeps Marth in the air, and you can work off that utilt to knock him off stage or build up more damage.

2:50 - You did another instant DJ, but you bailed properly by just empty landing and DDing away. Try not to super hard read him for that grab you did though. You could have reacted to the fact that he was still airborne and completely annihilated him with a quick nair-dair combo or something.

3:00 - After he did the first fair and your laser missed, you should have been able to shield the second one on reaction. If Marth isn't spaced and he's in the air, chances are he will aerial (only alternative is to tomahawk, but he hasn't done any yet so it's unlikely he'd start now).

3:15 - That jab was really risky and bad. He could have easily grabbed you for a quick gimp, and even if you hit the jab, nothing will come from it.

3:18 - Try to react to your laser resets. You could have charged a fsmash and pretty much guaranteed the stock from the edgeguard.

3:45 - That jab ruined another punish. You could have just dsmashed on reaction to the missed tech and edgeguarded.

4:00 - Just LH bair/dair him to the left for the best DI mixup in the game. If he survival DIs the bair or combo DIs the dair, you just edgeguard him again. If he combo DIs the bair he dies. If he survival DIs the dair you can dair him again.

4:25 - Obviously the lightshield edgehog worked since he didn't up-B, but try not to telegraph it so early because he might have actually been able to up-B early and make it back. Instead of whiffing a grab to Z-shield and then rolling to the ledge, just roll to the ledge normally with L/R, and then switch from holding the trigger to holding Z mid-roll and it will buffer the Z-shield.[/collapse]

[collapse=Game 2: Yoshi's Story]
5:00 - There was no point in uairing since it wasn't going to kill off the top. The goto option there should be a bair to knock him off stage, and I might have even opted for a dair (to the left) because if he DIs in you could have FFed to the plat and dsmashed him. It would have been sick. lol You then went for another uair as he came back down, but same problem. Uair wouldn't have killed and bair would have led to an easy edgeguard (not to mention it's way easier to hit a rising bair than uair).

5:10 - There was no reason to DJ that far away. Learn to ledge cancel Phantasm on plats, and then just line yourself up for one every time. From that spot, you can ledge cancel side-B, shorten, FF into a shorten, or up-B and angle the three main directions (high, horizontal, and to the ledge).

5:20 - Don't let Marths scare you off the ledge so easily. If you think they are doing an early up-B, then at least do a ledgestand. There's no point in rolling if you can ledgestand dsmash before they grab the ledge. Just grab the ledge as late as possible, and react to their side-Bs with a Firestall to refresh your invul. Also, it's kinda scary, but at 0% you can just assume they will sweetspot, and if they up-B even a little early you can just DJ bair since you have no stun. Just make sure you roll once they are able to grab the ledge before you can punish, and roll with a light press so you don't get hit by an up-B and airdodge to your death.

6:00 - Don't do that. lol

6:50 - You threw away that stock too. [/collapse]

[collapse=Game 3 - Fountain of Dreams]
8:25 - You should airdodge back on sometimes. It totally destroys Marths that overcommit to runoff fair. Worst case scenario you get regrabbed and are back in the same position with 5% more.

8:40 - You seem to panic roll to the ledge a lot. Sometimes it's a good mixup because people don't expect you to roll that way, but you could have rolled towards the center and he'd have to super hard read it to catch you. You could have airdodged again to avoid that offstage fair. You also shine stall in a lot of inappropriate places, but this is one of the places it would have been great. If you shine stall after getting baired off, you'd see him fair above you and would be able to DJ bair for a complete reversal.

9:05 - Idk why you are going for a grab here. Down a full stock with some percent, you need a pretty baller stock to stay in the match. Even if that wasn't the case, you get a free dair attempt because you can ledgecancel on the plat and have no lag. I'm 99% sure he couldn't shield before a dair after he whiffed that utilt anyway.

9:15 - That's a really greedy dair. You know you won't be able to combo, so instead of jumping at Marth and giving him bottom stage, I would drop through the top plat and just start utilting/bairing him from below as he tries to get back down (the low plat would have assisted this goal as well).[/collapse]

[collapse=Game 4 - Fountain of Dreams]
- I don't agree with the salty cp. Assuming there were no bans, you should have definitely went DL, or at least BF/PS. It was pretty obvious to me that you lost largely because of how overwhelmed you were, and even with FD being the worst stage in the matchup, you were able to use that space well and didn't have to worry about getting caught on platforms, so I think you might have been best off picking PS. I'm surprised you picked FoD at all. I like it a lot vs. Marth, but what you lose in lasers you have to make up for in good platform movement/attacking. You didn't really aerial onto platforms or get Marth up onto platforms at all, so they were mainly just in your way the whole time.

9:44 - That's the fair I like to see. lol

9:55 - A shorten would have saved you.

10:12 - You really can't afford to get dtilted like that. Again, he just runs offstage so you could have shine stalled or airdodged to get around him.[/collapse]

Only real comment I have on your general play is you don't use FHs that much. A lot of times you try to confuse the opponent with a roll or spotdodge when I would opt to just jump away from the situation, especially on stages with top plats. Other than that, don't let the matchup frustrate you. It's definitely in Marth's favor at the mid-levels because you die so easily and you can't afford to drop stuff. If you learn to ledgeguard properly and really focus on knocking him off stage, that alone would help you a ton. Being able to pillar for a solid 60-80% every stock will also make that seem less of a daunting task and more of an inevitability. This matchup is all about getting that solid hit. Both characters are able to do a lot of annoying stuff to each other (Marth will hit inconsequential fairs/dtilts and drop grab combos; Falco will get minimal grab combos and lasers), but when they get a solid punish it's deadly (Marth getting a perfect edgeguard or uair chain; Falco getting a late dair to start a pillar).

gj bones, you gonna try and make it next week? cuz im confirmed going on tuesdays up until a tourney

i got alot better since my first time

Idk, probably not. It's hard to go because I work early mornings and my car is really sketch to drive.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

oh, all good tho cuz theres alot of tourneys goin down in the next few months for eastcoast

 

[Twilight Emblem]

Hey guys! Learning L canceling atm. Just wondering, what is a good number of nairs to aim for when trying to L cancel nairs on FD within the span of one minute? Right now i'm only hitting low numbers like 100 or so and would like to see how far I need to go from here.

Should I try the method of playing all 3 ice climber computers before I have the L canceling down? Right now its just bowser crouching on p2 controller with handicaps on 9 for bowser

 

[Swann]

Dunno about the max # of nairs/minute, but you should make sure to practice L-cancelling aerials under every condition (combinations of: early/mid/late aerial, FF/no FF, SH/FH, hitting the opponent/whiffing/hitting a shield), which will make sure that you don't just autopilot. Even more importantly, practice moving as immediately as possible after the aerial(s).

Aside: If you're just beginning to learn L-cancelling, you should practice doing it without pushing L or R in all the way. The benefit to this is that the following scenario will never happen... you get hit out of an aerial and have inputted a fullpress for the L-cancel, but now you can't tech the hit because the window was reset from the fullpress. Sad times for the bird.

 

[Xyzz]

I think the frame perfect optimum is 180 or sth with fox, so it's probably around 150-160 with Falco.
I suppose 100 is fine. It's not the most practical thing in the world anyways. What Swann mentioned is far more important imho.


edit: just tried it, got 107. But I guess I'm not particularily fast myself, and towards the end the whole thing was getting rather stressful on my poor thumb... you never need that level of speed for that long duration of time (:

 

[Twilight Emblem]

Big question for Dr.Peepee

The movement you/leffen/mango showed at EVO stood out to me. I feel like and was wondering if there might be some additional training commitment you guys may have in your training that other players may not be utilizing in order to create the speed that you have.

If that is true I was wondering if you could explain to us other falco players how to train for that kind of lightning silk smooth movement and general clean speed in your tech skill that you guys seem to be capable of doing. Or if that is too much to ask for a definitive method on obtaining that speed *May not work for others even if it works for you but I doubt this* to perhaps point us in a direction as per your opinion on developing that kind of speed.

To a beginning player like me, or any falco that is currently a little too slow having that kind of direction for speed development in training via anything close to an actual plan would be really beneficial I think.
Xyzz/Swann- Thank you guys very much for that. At first I thought learning to L cancel with only shffl would give me the reaction time to hit almost all the other slower L cancels without having to practice but I see now that this is wrong at least in my case.

Xyzz- Pardon me if i'm wrong but isn't 180 w fox only on ledge/Edge canceling? I think fox moved slower when he wasn't doing that on the ledge/edge. I don't have a computer though so its hard to look this stuff up lol Or if i'm being bogus and he L cancels at the same rate no matter what ground hes on thats ok also
I respect what you had to say but i still really want to push to get falcos tech skill up and will still be investing heavily in moving with his tech skill and L canceling. Its my favorite way to play him and i'd love to explore the speed options he has

 

[Dr Peepee]

Movement is really hard to explain. The simplest way I could say to cultivate movement would be to practice various tempos and rhythms and what you can do out of any movement. Once you have that mastered and understand why movement is important and what it can do, then it's just practice to get the muscle memory built in.

 

[Xyzz]

Xyzz- Pardon me if i'm wrong but isn't 180 w fox only on ledge/Edge canceling? I think fox moved slower when he wasn't doing that on the ledge/edge. I don't have a computer though so its hard to look this stuff up lol Or if i'm being bogus and he L cancels at the same rate no matter what ground hes on thats ok also
I respect what you had to say but i still really want to push to get falcos tech skill up and will still be investing heavily in moving with his tech skill and L canceling. Its my favorite way to play him and i'd love to explore the speed options he has

You're right about the first part, the fox video I remembered really has ledge cancels
Looking at the superdoodleman frame data page would give us the following:
Falco has:
- 6 frames jump start
- 17 frames SH FF air time
- 7 frames l-cancel lag.
If I'm not missing something here (might very well be that he includes the 6th frame in the sh ff air time, or sth like that), that'd give us exactly 30 frames per iteration, so the answer is: Somewhere around 120 nairs per minute are possible (there is something fishy with that one minute melee match format :D).

And I do agree that playing Falco in a speedy way is the most fun. It's just that this kind of techskill practice probably doesn't improve the areas that need improvement the most. You are not trying to whiff as many nairs as possible in a real game, but want to make sure you don't give away frames during your shield pressure sequences [/quote]

 

[Bones0]

Falco only has 5 frames of jumpsquat.

 

[CosmoNaughtilus]

As a newbie Falco, I was wondering who (here on the Falco board) is going to The Big House 3? I'd like to play as many people as possible, especially Falco mains, and get as much input on what I'm doing right and (more importantly) what I'm doing wrong/need to improve on.

 

[ElloEddy]

its really hard to learn falco at a solid level...any tips on how to get better and more solid w him....??

 

[Bones0]

its really hard to learn falco at a solid level...any tips on how to get better and more solid w him....??

Watch vids. Practice on your own. Record your matches vs. human opponents. Daydream time = theorycraft time (you want to literally just sit and think about different options you don't explore in different scenarios).

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

all falco combos are fantasized before brought into reality
also listen to alot of smooth jazz and youll learn to improvise more when your in a combo

 

[Bones0]

I think improvisation during combos is pretty overrated, at least as far as newer players are concerned. Systematically destroying your opponent in a reliable manner is usually better. A lot of Falcos know the basic pillar combo on FFers at low %s, but then past that they try to improvise and drop the combo every time. You need to have a plan going into each segment of the combo so when your opponent is out of that pillar percent, you know immediately how to followup for each possible DI. Improvising is for when you simply can't continue the combo but want to extend it with reads/pseudo reads based on their DI, techs, dodges, counterattack attempts, etc.

A good example of that is when you FH uair a character and FF back to the ground before them. You can't combo from that uair, but you can do stuff like empty SH to bait a reaction out of them. From there you could empty land utilt their lag from a whiffed counterattack, DJ bair if they dodged early, WL onto a plat to cover something, and the list goes on. I think PP is really good at this. Let me find an example real quick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy8FeSI-gCM

2:35 - PP baits out Armada's trade-attempt nair. It's easy to say it was a mistake by Armada, but at the same time if he never does that nair, then PP will always get a direct followup instead of waiting for a split second.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

i wudnt ever get into an extensive combo playstyle cuz its better to do stuff that betters your positioning imo
since falco doesnt have alot of stuff against floaties after upthrow upair, i definitely agree fastfalling back to regain your ground is really important,
pp definitely unique in that he plays within limitations in stuff but also goes for the utmost somehow
i think everyone has there own way of doing things tho
like recently i really liked adding raw pivots and just waiting ( not trying to not approach ever) but yea approaching is overrated

 

[Bones0]

I don't think approaching is overrated. People just have the misconception that you can only approach with attacks and don't notice low-commitment approaches when they see it (or they have a different definition of what constitutes an approach).

 

[mooki]

I don't think approaching is overrated. People just have the misconception that you can only approach with attacks and don't notice low-commitment approaches when they see it (or they have a different definition of what constitutes an approach).

Could you give me an example of a low-commitment approach?

 

[CosmoNaughtilus]

Could you give me an example of a low-commitment approach?

I would think something like a SH > WD back or something of the like.

 

[Bones0]

Could you give me an example of a low-commitment approach?

DD forward: Even if you DD back right after, you still invaded their space and threatened them. They either have to respond to that dash in or risk you actually landing an attack.

SHL: Extremely common and simple way of taking space by making people back off and moving forward, often at the same time.

FH and drift towards them: PP did this vs. Armada amazingly. I think at one point he FHed towards Armada and drifted back 3 times in a row, and Armada finally threw out a bad uair. Those FHs don't look like the stereotypical approach, but PP was taking up space that threatened Armada enough to make him uair preemptively.

Empty SH: you can confirm their spacing and aerial-shine into shield pressure, but if you realize after SHing that they aren't within range, you can switch to a SHL or shine their shield and/or DJ WL onto a plat.

Crossup: Crossups don't seem like they're low commitment, but they are. They are just less common because it requires you getting close to the opponent in the first place. If you're tech chasing and a bit too slow to hit them before they get their shield up, it can be nice to simply nair through their shield or empty hop past them. From there, you can shield and punish an attack OoS, you can utilt to catch OoS options, or you can go right back past them with another SHFFL to catch OoS movements like WD OoS away from you.

Bair/utilt spam: Falco's bair and utilt are really good obviously, so if you get the chance to turn around and have your opponent evne somewhat pinned at the ledge, you can SH to threaten with bairs and threaten with utilts after you land. Any attempt from them to move vertically is countered by FHing at them with a bair. As long as you don't get grabbed you're pretty much going to win out in these situations. Think of it like DK abusing his huge bair.

 

[Rocketpowerchill]

inshort, how are you supposed to play the neutral game, in a fox vs falco
what is falco looking to do and what is fox

just wanna know cuz im trying to build up my smarts since im just a brain dead fool atm
i want to play patient and chill and also perform effective punishes