PPMD's Falco Discussion Thread

[unknown522]

I think this is the best writing I've ever seen from you.

B+

I've had better

 

[Deleted member]

so when are you going to go marth and just win 4-1 twice like you were supposed to?

 

[Beat!]

so when are you going to go marth and just win 4-1 twice like you were supposed to?

Hahahahahahahahaha

 

[unknown522]

Not in PAL for sure.

 

[Dr Peepee]

It was PAL dude

Forget that!


I don't know the matchup on platformed stages well enough....WHO EVEN PLAYS PEACH ANYMORE

idk dude this sounds like one for aim lmao.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

I was actually going to say something about marth just now lol. may as well say it anyway...

There was a point after WF where I personally lost some faith in your falco, and felt that your marth may have been better suited for the task. I feel that your performance in grand finals proved me very wrong though lol. I am curious though if there was ever a point in the counter picking process where marth crossed your mind as a better alternative.

 

[unknown522]

No spike in PAL

 

[Strong Badam]

and his aerial mobility is worse, making spacing aerials feel different and his recovery worse

 

[Dr Peepee]

I considered Marth before playing Armada but decided it wasn't worth it at any point because of PAL Marth having no swag(Dair).

While playing him, I did not consider that.


Ohhhh aerial mobility is lowered too??? THAT'S BS YO

 

[ShroudedOne]

Don't be a meanie face and go Marth. Take your Falco beating like you're supposed to.

 

[Deleted member]

It was PAL dude

Forget that!

I think I'm at the point where everything I say is half trolling and half not, but it's on that fine line where you can't tell lol

i'll hit you up after you've had time to rest.

 

[Divinokage]

Hey hey, you cant be using my mindgames on the boards.

 

[Bones0]

You should go Young Link.

If you want to use Marth, I would think only using him for some matches would be better. That way you could do something like ban DL instead of FD, and if he cps FD you go Marth and wall his *** all game. I could see Marth being really helpful for YS too.

Spoiler

Or you could do some hardcore Jiggs training with Hbox at the next tourney.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I've also considered Marth for FD like that because I get no bans in most American rulesets these days so I'll need a plan for FD anyway.

YS is fine as Falco.

 

[Bones0]

Yeah, just saw your interview where you talked about Marth for FD. And yeah, I agree Falco does fine on YS. I just imagine Marth would do better. Turnips seem to be the biggest nuisance in that mu and she struggles to pull them more on that stage than any other.

Do you have any specific thoughts on Falco vs. Peach on FoD? (I'm a FoD junkie so I let Peach's take me there or even strike there.) The high ceiling kind of sucks, but the side blastzones being so close seems to more than make up for it. I know a lot of people hate the platforms because of dsmash shenanigans, but I try to just avoid that situation in general by not being on the ground when they're low especially since I am often using low plats to laser them out of floats. I also think being able to dair pillar (when you alternate between rising and drop-through dairs) on low plats can help get her % higher since you can't combo Peach as long as most chars.

Also, do you think dtilt can be a reliable KO move? I only remember you doing a single laser -> dtilt. It's obviously super risky cause of dsmash, but I was just wondering if you had a way of hit confirming or guaranteeing it. I was thinking you might be able to by lasering her when she's just above the ground since I do laser -> fsmash/usmash on airborne floaties a lot.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Yeah, just saw your interview where you talked about Marth for FD. And yeah, I agree Falco does fine on YS. I just imagine Marth would do better. Turnips seem to be the biggest nuisance in that mu and she struggles to pull them more on that stage than any other.

Do you have any specific thoughts on Falco vs. Peach on FoD? (I'm a FoD junkie so I let Peach's take me there or even strike there.) The high ceiling kind of sucks, but the side blastzones being so close seems to more than make up for it. I know a lot of people hate the platforms because of dsmash shenanigans, but I try to just avoid that situation in general by not being on the ground when they're low especially since I am often using low plats to laser them out of floats. I also think being able to dair pillar (when you alternate between rising and drop-through dairs) on low plats can help get her % higher since you can't combo Peach as long as most chars.

Also, do you think dtilt can be a reliable KO move? I only remember you doing a single laser -> dtilt. It's obviously super risky cause of dsmash, but I was just wondering if you had a way of hit confirming or guaranteeing it. I was thinking you might be able to by lasering her when she's just above the ground since I do laser -> fsmash/usmash on airborne floaties a lot.

I don't know h2marth on platformed stages as well yet so personally the risk would be greater for me. If I could just find a Peach to play.....

Falco vs Peach on FoD is the big question mark of the matchup for me. Peach gets stupider Dsmashes but Falco gets better combos and usually earlier kills. Peach gets living off the top easier. If the platforms allowed Falco to escape Peach easier sometimes that'd be nice but sometimes you just feel like it's a smaller FD with nowhere to go and a crown in your face lol. If you can play in that small area(I think Falco can) then the matchup swings more in his favor there. I know Armada didn't like taking me to FoD at P5 and he likely won't do it until he has to again.

My basic opinion on the stage is I don't know. My best GUESS is that Falco can handle Peach fine there but if he slips up at all he will pay harder for it there than on any other stage at times because of how confining it can be.

Dtilt is good to spam on Peach at higher percents but I just never remember to do it lol. She can either Nair and miss or try to run/WD and get hit by Dtilt if you space it correctly. If you're obvious though she can FC Fair you and that would obviously suck.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Hey PP do you ever get super nervous during matches? I feel like I play terrible in tournament. My hands are sweaty, im all nervous. My friends are watching me. How do you block it out? Im sure you've been to enough tournaments that it doesn't effect you as much but I just get so nervous that I feel I just forget everything.

 

[Deleted member]

kevin's solution to everything is to get pissed. seriously sometimes mid-set on youtube you can actually see where he gets pissed lol

 

[Bl@ckChris]

ok kevin, teach me peach next semester. either that, or teach ashley lol.

 

[Divinokage]

Well anger could help you to focus even more and showing your killer intent. Your opponent will feel it for sure even if nothing happened to switch the momentum. I have to use it a lot more, I'm not focused enough when I play.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

salt mode PP is really fun to play. this one time i was 2v1'ing him with team attack off with another guy and man, good times were had.

 

[Mahone]

i don't think getting mad to win is healthy and i don't think its a good mentality to have

i think this community would be better as a whole if people didn't focus as much on winning at all costs and focused more on respect and fun

 

[Divinokage]

Scrub mentality. You are here to DEFEAT your opponent, not have sex with him.

 

[Bones0]

I agree with Mahone. Watching two top level players just trying to destroy each other every stock gets pretty boring. When both players are taking it less serious and playing for fun like Mango it's much less tense and more fun for the viewer. That's why I would consider Mango better than Armada despite the results of Genesis 2 and Apex.

 

[Zoler]

I agree with Mahone. Watching two top level players just trying to destroy each other every stock gets pretty boring. When both players are taking it less serious and playing for fun like Mango it's much less tense and more fun for the viewer. That's why I would consider Mango better than Armada despite the results of Genesis 2 and Apex.

Do you even know what better means?

Bones logic I guess

 

[Bones0]

Do you even know what better means?

Bones logic I guess

 

[Mahone]

Scrub mentality. You are here to DEFEAT your opponent, not have sex with him.

Ya, i acknowledge its a DAVID-SIRLIN-PLAY2WIN SCRUB mentality, but maybe there are some things more important than winning

I agree with Mahone. Watching two top level players just trying to destroy each other every stock gets pretty boring. When both players are taking it less serious and playing for fun like Mango it's much less tense and more fun for the viewer. That's why I would consider Mango better than Armada despite the results of Genesis 2 and Apex.

Well i wasn't saying that top players shouldn't take the matches seriously. Its fine if two players want to try their hardest and test themselves, but i think its not healthy to "get angry" just to try to beat someone. A good example of taking the game too seriously imo is Armada picking ylink and trying to time hbox out on purpose to "make him pay" for playing puff and playing gay or whatever. Like, armada should play to win, and its fine to counterpick, but purposefully trying to frustrate your opponent outside of the game seems rather cruel and unnecessary.

After all, it's still a game and no one is making that much money off of it, so i don't see why people feel the need to get so salty and rage. It's ok to be disappointed because thats just natural if you put a lot of time into something and don't succeed, but like hbox and pp throwing their controllers after losing to chu/javi seems pretty disrespectful to me.

I would much rather congratulate the opponent and ask to play friendlies, or try to learn why i lost, how they train outside of tourney, etc. than get mad and john which is what most people do.

 

[unknown522]

Constructive anger is good

 

[ShroudedOne]

I don't think turnips are the big problem for Falco vs her. I think it's her float (then again, I hate turnips, so I dunno).

Mango's better than Armada because he ...uh...has more fun playing the game than Armada? How do you know Armada doesn't have fun playing the game? That he doesn't relax, take it less serious, etc. (except for the Hbox case, I guess). Different people have fun in different ways, and display them differently.

And essentially, what you seem to be saying is that Mango can come in second or third every time, but because he has more fun, he's a better player? That sounds ridiculous, so correct me if I'm misreading, but........

+1 to everything Mahone posts

 

[Bones0]

I would much rather congratulate the opponent and ask to play friendlies, or try to learn why i lost, how they train outside of tourney, etc. than get mad and john which is what most people do.

I'd rather win, even if that means getting mad. >.>


@Shrouded

 

[Mahone]

Constructive anger is good

I'd rather win, even if that means getting mad. >.>


@Shrouded

Well, i just think you would live a happier life, in and out of smash if you didn't do that, but obviously its your choice

I was just saying my two cents in the first place, i don't really wanna argue with everyone anyway

 

[ShroudedOne]

Darn it, Bones.

 

[Bones0]

Well, i just think you would live a happier life, in and out of smash if you didn't do that, but obviously its your choice

I was just saying my two cents in the first place, i don't really wanna argue with everyone anyway

I have no doubt you're right. I just have a severe lack of control over my drive to win. It honestly does make other games a lot less fun because I'm constantly getting upset instead of just enjoying the experience. But at the same time, when you can overcome obstacles that absolutely infuriate you, it can be the most epic high ever. It's like I am a victory junkie where it doesn't matter what means I use or what I go through so long as the end result is me getting my fix. lol

It's not like I'm incapable of having fun though. In friendlies I am probably a lot less tryhard than I should be to achieve even a moderate level of success. So I do enjoy playing, but when <5% of my time is actually spent in tournament/money matches, I'd rather play pure cutthroat for that 5% and win. I can always test my skills vs. them or learn how they train later in a MM or just talking about the game.

 

[unknown522]

Oh no doubt. But things are gonna piss you off and sometimes it's better to let it out in some way rather than bottling it up.

Especially at high/top level. There's a lot of pressure riding and in turn that's gonna piss you off in some way (be it gay strat, gay character, gay matchup, gay stage, a player you don't like, strat you don't like, youre playing bad, SD'd, etc, etc). It's way better to let it out constructively, than to let it out on someone

 

[Bones0]

Melee is the only game I've literally NEVER been mad at. I've been mad at how I played or disappointed or frustrated that I keep doing something dumb, but it's always focused internally. The fact that I have played this game all these years and never flipped out is truly a testament to how good the game is. I'll play CoD or Halo and get pissed multiple times every game. Hell, I'll be playing Pokemon and rage because the computer trainer got a lucky critical hit or used a Hyper Potion 3 times a row. I will play basketball and get pissed that my rim is too flimsy. I will play minesweeper and rage when I hit a mine on the first click.

I can't enjoy anything but Melee... :|

 

[Mahone]

I have no doubt you're right. I just have a severe lack of control over my drive to win. It honestly does make other games a lot less fun because I'm constantly getting upset instead of just enjoying the experience. But at the same time, when you can overcome obstacles that absolutely infuriate you, it can be the most epic high ever. It's like I am a victory junkie where it doesn't matter what means I use or what I go through so long as the end result is me getting my fix. lol

It's not like I'm incapable of having fun though. In friendlies I am probably a lot less tryhard than I should be to achieve even a moderate level of success. So I do enjoy playing, but when <5% of my time is actually spent in tournament/money matches, I'd rather play pure cutthroat for that 5% and win. I can always test my skills vs. them or learn how they train later in a MM or just talking about the game.

Ya, but i don't see why you would need to get mad to overcome obstacles, either way, my point is that you can be as cutthroat as you want, but i don't think people separate in the game from out of the game... you can lose a game and be mad at puff or whoever and be frustrated you lost, but you should have nothing but respect for someone who beat you. And if you truly respect them, you wouldn't sully their win by throwing a controller or johning later.

Oh no doubt. But things are gonna piss you off and sometimes it's better to let it out in some way rather than bottling it up.

Especially at high/top level. There's a lot of pressure riding and in turn that's gonna piss you off in some way (be it gay strat, gay character, gay matchup, gay stage, a player you don't like, strat you don't like, youre playing bad, SD'd, etc, etc). It's way better to let it out constructively, than to let it out on someone

See, i would say that you already made your mistake when you considered all those things "gay"... sure some things can be frustrating like ledge camping for example, but if you cant handle those things without getting angry, maybe you should reconsider your attitude and what your real goals in smash are.

There was a phase where i was getting frustrated that all these players were trying to time me out and just in general camp my puff a lot, so what i decided to do is take a break from entering tournaments. I don't choose to enter a tournament if i am not in the mood to be camped or "gayed" or whatever. When i DO enter, i have a good attitude and respect all my opponents strategies, even if they are trying to time me out.

It isn't fair for you to expect people to play YOUR melee when you enter a tournament. There are probably 100+ things you do that players you face will find annoying/gay/frustrating, so its not reasonable for you to get angry because they are using a strategy you personally won't use and think is "gay".

A good example is m2k, who camps the ledge harder than any other top player, but consistently complains about how gay puff and falco are... I just think these kind of attitudes are super disrespectful to your opponents and tbh it makes me not want to play a lot of the time, because no one feels good about making someone else angry, no matter how unreasonable they are being.

 

[unknown522]

Hey hey. I didn't say that I get angry about those. I know that a lot of people do

 

[Mahone]

Ya, whenever i said "you" i wasn't referring to you specifically, just smashers in general

 

[unknown522]

Oh yeah. Sucks though. Most people have no respect for certain play styles and such. It is kind of a crappy mentality, but eh.

Even the top players do it.

Except pp as far as I know

 

[ShroudedOne]

If I'm just messing around/playing friendlies, playstyles that I don't exactly like playing against annoy me more, but I do my best to keep this internal. In tournament, I'll endure anything, because it's a different environment, to me.

This is the best I seem to be able to do.