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Potential Roster/Stage Leak Thread

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Raijinken

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I believe the idea was that the former unlock method would be for the 3DS, while the latter is for the Wii U. :p Agreed on it making next to no sense, though. Repetitive unlock requirements like "beat Classic 10 times with <character>" just isn't good design.
Nor have "Beat Classic/Adventure X Times As Specific Character" ever been a requirement. It's always been "Beat it as A to get related character B" (Roy, for instance) or "Beat it with set of characters A to get unrelated character B" (Marth). That, or alternate unlock methods such as play time (Mewtwo, Sonic), Stage fight count (15 in Shadow Moses for Snake), Stadium modes (Targets, Multiman), et cetera. And as simple as Brawl's requirements were (especially trimming the maximum VS matches down from 1000 to 450), it's hard to accurately predict how Smash4's will work.
 
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I believe the idea was that the former unlock method would be for the 3DS, while the latter is for the Wii U. :p Agreed on it making next to no sense, though. Repetitive unlock requirements like "beat Classic 10 times with <character>" just isn't good design.
Oh maybe, it's still a really stupid way to unlock him on the Wii U version.
 

Raijinken

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Oh maybe, it's still a really stupid way to unlock him on the Wii U version.
Well, don't forget, the alternate unlock method for Ness in Brawl was "Reflect 10 projectiles".

So when my brother and I got Brawl, we had our first match just be Mario vs Fox, and thus unlocked Ness in the first round.
 
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ChunkyBeef

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I believe the idea was that the former unlock method would be for the 3DS, while the latter is for the Wii U. :p Agreed on it making next to no sense, though. Repetitive unlock requirements like "beat Classic 10 times with <character>" just isn't good design.
Right. Good game design for unlocks would be "beat Classic Mode with ten characters.".

Forcing you to replay with a single character is both boring and bad game design, as you said.
 

dezeray112

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Just the same as a billion text leaks before it. Interesting, but ultimately with no evidence to back it up.

I think what we have already confirmed is all we're getting. DLC is likely a distinct possibility, but we won't likely be seeing any hints of that 'til mid-2015.
As I've said in the other thread, it wouldn't really surprise me if Smash Bros Wii U/3DS will have DLC after looking at the recent Mario Kart 8 DLC contents.
 

Raijinken

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Right. Good game design for unlocks would be "beat Classic Mode with ten characters.".

Forcing you to replay with a single character is both boring and bad game design, as you said.
Odds are the Ridley unlock would either be related to playing on the Metroid stage a certain number of times, beating a certain event match in which you fight him (Maybe where you fight a GIANT RIDLEY that constantly has Tanooki hovering powers or something), or beating a mode (or arena mode) with Samus on certain settings.
 

jordanm43444

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Dear everyone complaining about Duck Hunt Dog, Dark Pit, Dr.Mario being characters.

Sakurai honestly just adds who he wants to add, for instance

Did ANYONE seriously ask for Ice Climbers in Melee?
Did ANYONE ask for G&W in Melee?
Did ANYONE ask for R.O.B in Brawl?
Did ANYONE ask for Wii Fit Trainer in Smash 4?
Now yes there are some exceptions were people do get in with a high demand of following, like Megaman, Robin etc. But honestly guys we cant always have our way. I DESPERATELY want Isaac in smash 4, but the closer were getting to release and with this leak, I have given up hope and come to accept that not everything goes my way and that Sakurai just likes to add who he likes.

And about the clones being in the game, this is simple really, we heard from Sakurai that Lucina really was going to just be an alt for Marth but they instead decided to change her a little and give her her own slot on the CSS. Really the same applies for Dr. Mario and DPit probably since they were added last minute as just a few more additions to an already outstanding roster.
 

Raider 88

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I feel like 4chan is basically the most unreliable source there could be. I know that's where the initial leak was posted, but 99% of the time it's just going to be trolling. It's worse than using Wikipedia as a source when writing a paper.
 

Raijinken

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I feel like 4chan is basically the most unreliable source there could be. I know that's where the initial leak was posted, but 99% of the time it's just going to be trolling. It's worse than using Wikipedia as a source when writing a paper.
4ch kinda swings widely on the scale of reliability. Much of it is trolling (and often from fairly skilled fakers), but it's also a pretty quick and easy place to posts information you might run across, without requiring an account and thus greater trackability.
 
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Well, don't forget, the alternate unlock method for Ness in Brawl was "Reflect 10 projectiles".

So when my brother and I got Brawl, we had our first match just be Mario vs Fox, and thus unlocked Ness in the first round.
Hmm....yeah but just playing one match with no other requirements other than play as Samus is even worse in my opinion.
 

strawhatninja

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I know this isn't completely related to the leak since the dlc comment was proven false, but I think the Mario Kart 8 dlc is a good test run for Nintendo to see how well received it is before they do if for Smash. Think about this.

Lets copy the Mario Kart Style DLC packs for 7.99 and make them fit what I think they could do for Smash

3 characters(2 returning and 1 new) for example Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Chorus Kids
I'm not sure how many alt. costumes they would do maybe 8-12?
4 stages(One for each new character and then a bonus stage)

I think that would be a brilliant move by Nintendo, but of course it's just speculation.
 

Storm Eagle

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Have you guys forgot how much longer a transformation takes from Melee to Brawl? If anything, transformations are out because of the HD models on the Wii U, not because of the 3DS.
 

KingBroly

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Isn't the supposed way to unlock Mewtwo the same method as in Melee?

Also, I don't believe the Isabelle part. The fact that she's an Assist Trophy just makes it too hard to believe.
 

Luigi player

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That leak with the unlock stuff and Isabelle playable is obviously false.

1. Isabelle
2. Ridley is unlocked by playing classic mode 10 times with S/Zamus?! Who would ever do that? That's right - nobody, unless you fail at it, but you probably have to beat it 10 times. The 2nd condition would make sense, but it's only possible on Wii U.
3. Dixie as a Diddy clone? That just doesn't work, at all. Maybe as a semiclone like Wolf would be.
 

Capybara Gaming

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This guy still has it:


There was hardly any sound in the videos so don't mind the person talking over it.
That does make it more credible for sure but I'm still not sure whether I believe it or not.

Why doesn't Jr.'s KKK not hover? It always hovers in Mario.

Regardless I think that IF it's real, IC are unlockable for once. We have room for 4 more characters on the CSS; assuming Miis are lumped into one icon. I speculate that if it's real; IC, Lucas, Mewtwo, and Dixie Kong will be the remaining fighters; and that the clones will be put in their own series' part of the CSS, while Yoshi moves over a few spots.
 
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That does make it more credible for sure but I'm still not sure whether I believe it or not.

Why doesn't Jr.'s KKK not hover? It always hovers in Mario.

Regardless I think that IF it's real, IC are unlockable for once. We have room for 4 more characters on the CSS; assuming Miis are lumped into one icon. I speculate that if it's real; IC, Lucas, Mewtwo, and Dixie Kong will be the remaining fighters; and that the clones will be put in their own series' part of the CSS, while Yoshi moves over a few spots.
There is no "if", it's real. You can't fake something to that accuracy. Nintendo of America took down the video and claimed copyright strikes on all other videos with the footage. It's real.
 

KingBroly

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There being different unlock conditions in each version doesn't sound like too outlandish of an idea. Some people may only get one version or the other.
 
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Flaxr XIII

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Have you guys forgot how much longer a transformation takes from Melee to Brawl? If anything, transformations are out because of the HD models on the Wii U, not because of the 3DS.
Yeah but the Wii U is vastly more powerful than the Wii and Gamecube.
And lets be honest here, the HD models don't seem to be super demanding when it comes to console power.
 

Raijinken

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Yeah but the Wii U is vastly more powerful than the Wii and Gamecube.
And lets be honest here, the HD models don't seem to be super demanding when it comes to console power.
Aside from that point (which is a very good one), transformations could also be removed because they added very little to the game and are a balance nightmare. Even in PM where both Zelda and Sheik are considered worth playing, you effectively never see players swap between them due to how matchups play out. As a result, both characters are effectively down a Down B. Which is fixed by removing the transformation mechanic.
 

Halfhead

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They never met Toon Link (or any of the other characters portrayed in the comic) in their own series either. They met in brawl and SSE though, which is what the comic refers to as I understood it.
Toon Link never met anyone in SSE.
 

strawhatninja

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Aside from that point (which is a very good one), transformations could also be removed because they added very little to the game and are a balance nightmare. Even in PM where both Zelda and Sheik are considered worth playing, you effectively never see players swap between them due to how matchups play out. As a result, both characters are effectively down a Down B. Which is fixed by removing the transformation mechanic.
I know some people who did, but I agree when I pick Zelda I only play as her never Sheik.
 

dezeray112

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I know this isn't completely related to the leak since the dlc comment was proven false, but I think the Mario Kart 8 dlc is a good test run for Nintendo to see how well received it is before they do if for Smash. Think about this.

Lets copy the Mario Kart Style DLC packs for 7.99 and make them fit what I think they could do for Smash

3 characters(2 returning and 1 new) for example Ice Climbers, Lucas, and Chorus Kids
I'm not sure how many alt. costumes they would do maybe 8-12?
4 stages(One for each new character and then a bonus stage)

I think that would be a brilliant move by Nintendo, but of course it's just speculation.
I think I could see Smash do a similar pack to Mario Kart 8.
 

ElPanandero

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There being different unlock conditions in each version doesn't sound like too outlandish of an idea. Some people may only get one version or the other.
I think it was the fact that beating classic 10 times with a character is the outlandish part. That and Issabelle
 

Oz37

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Aside from that point (which is a very good one), transformations could also be removed because they added very little to the game and are a balance nightmare. Even in PM where both Zelda and Sheik are considered worth playing, you effectively never see players swap between them due to how matchups play out. As a result, both characters are effectively down a Down B. Which is fixed by removing the transformation mechanic.
This. So this. I get so tired of "the 3DS has ruined Smash Bros/my life." Has anyone considered that Sakurai actually meant what he said about transformations? If you remember the Smash Direct, he stated that all transformation characters were removed in favor of each character being completely their own so the focus would be on one moveset in battle. Is it really so crazy to think he actually meant what he said?
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Based on the fact that this game has a bit more of a competitive focus on it, there are certainly reasons for Squirtle and Ivysaur to get cut. The Pokemon Trainer was a disaster in practice in Brawl. The concept was cool, I don't think anybody disagrees with that. But the execution? Terrible.

The weaknesses to opposite elements (water<electric, fire<water, grass<fire) are cool and real to the series, but they don't translate well to Smash either. The stamina mechanic made it so that you HAD to switch characters, even though there were clearly better options to use in certain situations. Nothing about it was practical in a competitive environment. Therefore, choosing Charizard (the clear favorite of the trio) was a good move in my opinion.

Squirtle could have arguably been the best gameplaywise, but this is still an All-Star game. Charizard has always been a fan favorite. There was no way he'd be cut when it came down to it.
 
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KaZe_DaRKWIND

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Transformations could also be removed because they added very little to the game and are a balance nightmare. Even in PM where both Zelda and Sheik are considered worth playing, you effectively never see players swap between them due to how matchups play out. As a result, both characters are effectively down a Down B. Which is fixed by removing the transformation mechanic.
This.
Almost anyone I know plays as one or the other on transformation characters.
 
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Storm Eagle

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Don't get me wrong, I am glad that transformations are out. I just wanted to point out that there is no reason to believe that they are removed from Smash because of the 3DS version.
 

Scoliosis Jones

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Don't get me wrong, I am glad that transformations are out. I just wanted to point out that there is no reason to believe that they are removed from Smash because of the 3DS version.
This guy gets it. It's not because of the strength of the system, but rather the practicality and the appeal of the characters themselves.
 

Dims

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Toon Link never met anyone in SSE.
I was referring to Ness' and Lucas' meeting in SSE. Though you can argue that Toon Link met everyone through fights. This is getting derailed >_>

On the whole "3DS is limiting Wii U" thing I just want to point out that the original plan was to release SSB4 exclusively on the 3DS. Wii U owners are lucky to even get the game. The 3DS to Wii U owner ratio is like 10:1 IIRC. Besides that, there is no reason to believe that they took out transformations because of the 3DS' capabilities. From what I've heard, the game runs beautifully, and there really is no logical explanation as to why it would be harder to run on a smaller machine. They had transformations in melee for gods sake. The same goes for ice climbers (and if that really was a problem, I'm sure they would find a solution, like making the AI really simple or just making the second IC an animation based thing. Olimar is still in, just saying).

Also I am personally really happy that transformations are gone. I don't want to be forced to play several characters (and on top of that lose a down special). It also increases the simplicity, number, and variety of character choices, which I think is good.
 
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Collective of Bears

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On the topic of transformations, imagine if they kept them and tried to add custom variants of the Down B used for them. That would be... Interesting.
 
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pikazz

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Have you guys forgot how much longer a transformation takes from Melee to Brawl? If anything, transformations are out because of the HD models on the Wii U, not because of the 3DS.
the reason why it was much longer to transform in brawl than melee is because how struckture and big Brawl is!
in melee, Zelda and Shiek gets load at the same time when you select a stage. making it much faster to shift between those 2

however, in Brawl. only their "Modules" gets read while loaded. once one of their modules get called on when stage begins or a attack trigger that, it starting to call the models, animations and attacks.
to add forward on it, when brawl will transforms a character, it need to load both Module Memory, Instance Memory AND attack/PSA memory. if one of them are too big, you will not be able to transform and freeze the game before even the stage gets loaded!
as a experiented hacker at that area, I know what I am talking about, even made it possible to transform between jigglypuff and Ganondorf/Marth which never was possible before:



but the transformation removal in SSB4 is only good, since that aims more to the competive people! its really rare to see any transformations in competive play. so they took that off and added a new attack to give those who mains one transformation some new tricks in their sleaves so you dont have to worry to "accentental transforming" into a character you are not used with

and on that subject, Ice climbers falls under this too, since Nana is a half part Character, Half part Article (like Marios Fireball or Pikmins), Nana needs to be called too by Module Memory, Instance memory and Attack/Psa memory. its almost like calling the same file twice! therefore it has problems on the 3DS version
 
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