Pokemon Black and White (Spoiler Warning)

[Wave⁂]

Head Smash already has basically 100% accuracy. It's accurate enough that you don't have to worry about it missing.

 

[ss118]

It has the same accuracy of Hydro Miss and Stone Miss. Might as well call it Head Miss or Miss Smash or something.

Anything with less than 85% accuracy has terrible accuracy. Even Fire Blast is meh at times.

What is the point between this thread and the BW discussion thread in the rating room?

 

[Claire Diviner]

It has the same accuracy of Hydro Miss and Stone Miss. Might as well call it Head Miss or Miss Smash or something.

Anything with less than 85% accuracy has terrible accuracy. Even Fire Blast is meh at times.

What is the point between this thread and the BW discussion thread in the rating room?

True, but Head Smash hurts a lot more and has better coverage overall.

To keep Head Smash viable in this topic, Ganonboar learns it naturally. Better still, is its Dream World Ability, Reckless, which makes it that more powerful. Of course, that means suffering serious recoil in the process.

 

[ss118]

When I said point I mean difference. My bad.

How does Head Smash have better coverage than Stone Edge?

 

[kirbyraeg]

It doesn't, but a move that 1.5 times more powerful says quite a lot, lol.

Also this is a set I've been messing with that will have fun with weather stuff...

Golduck @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 Def
Timid / Cloud Nine

Surf/Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
HP Grass
Focus Blast

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

So...I've been out of Pokemon, merely playing SS to finish the trainer card. I wanted some opinions from you genius folk. Which Pokemon do you see rising/falling? Like where will Scizor stand, Charizard, the new Pokemon, Mew, etc. Just wondering~ (If someone put their theory ofa tier list up, it'd be epic xD

 

[Z'zgashi]

I predict shandera to be hella good.

 

[UltiMario]

Too late, it's already been amazing.

It's not a prediction if it's already happened.

 

[ss118]

Shandera is still overrated.

Overrated =/= amazing.

 

[Z'zgashi]

lol, shadow tag on anything would make it amazing. Not to mention a good movepool, nice typing, and good stats.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Shadow Tag didn't make the goth pokemon amazing.

Gochizeru whatever, i think.

 

[Z'zgashi]

that goth has more potential though IMO

 

[kirbyraeg]

It would if it had a better movepool

Seriously, if it had recovery it would be great. But it only has rest, so its potential is greatly limited to basically a chestoCM set.

edit: Actually I like its new move "Magic Room". If you think about it suppressing held items for 5 turns could be really helpful to deal with potential revenge-killers and would also allow it to trap things that run Shed Shell...

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So...I've been out of Pokemon, merely playing SS to finish the trainer card. I wanted some opinions from you genius folk. Which Pokemon do you see rising/falling? Like where will Scizor stand, Charizard, the new Pokemon, Mew, etc. Just wondering~ (If someone put their theory ofa tier list up, it'd be epic xD

Rotom-H just became the #1 Scizor counter, if that's what you wanted to know about Scizor, anyway.

I see Burungeru, Nattorei, Terakion, Ditto and maybe Roobushin as very popular in the early stages of the metagame. Shandera and Doryuuzu, too, of course. That's just my opinion.

 

[UltiMario]

Except you can flee with Shed Shell before you can Magic Room them.

If they stay in to get Magic Roomed, they obviously have the capability to take you on.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I don't think anybody would stay in to get Magic Roomed.

I mean that it lasts 5 turns, so if you could potentially force that wall to switch in again and predict the switch and trap them during that 5-turn period, then you could actually manage to break apart stall that relies on Shed Shell to stay together.

 

[UltiMario]

Instead, they switch to TTar.

GG.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Scizor may see a drop in usage because of Rotom-H.

Breloom (Technician) usage will see a massive increase.

Gardevoir may see a rise in use, since Trace may be more useful in the predicted weather-based metagame.

Ditto may very well be a staple for most teams, seeing as Eccentric makes it the best scout, bar none.

Zoroark will be a popular choice, due to the mindgames it can induce. On top of that, it can seriously mess with Ditto if Illusion is in effect. Not exactly a Ditto counter, more than a Ditto deterant.

Blaziken usage will indeed rise thanks to Speed Boost.

Suicune, with Water Absorb and Boiling Water has become very scary.

Rain Dish Ludicolo in rain, with a powered up Drain Punch and STAB Giga Drain while holding either Leftovers or Big Root is potentially scarier.

Ninetales and Politoed have become instant celebrities with Drought and Drizzle respectively.

There are many pre-Gen V Pokémon that have received great buffs. Only time will tell if they can truly bring something that will define the metagame.

 

[Wrath`]

So what ever happened to that new steel/fighting legendary we got. I have seen nor heard nothing on it or about it. Is it just that bad?

 

[BrutaL^]

Wow, those pokemon are really cool. but fire pokemon starter (2nd evolve) looks kinda... uhhh ***gy..

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So what ever happened to that new steel/fighting legendary we got. I have seen nor heard nothing on it or about it. Is it just that bad?

It's kinda cool, I guess. 91 / 129 physical defense is not bad at all, but aside from that you're either outclassed by Lucario - who only loses because of his lower base Speed - oh wait Extremespeed exists and Terakion who has better base Attack, as well as amazing STAB coverage.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

What do you guys see happening to Tyranitar, and more importantly, Sandstorm teams. This is what I need to know.

Is SR dead? What about Technician Breeloom, as Diviner said, it looks to be ****

 

[Terywj [태리]]

How could Sandstorm ever die? Tyranitar and Hippowdon are definitely going to stay strong, especially seeing how prevalent all the weather has been. Throw in sweepers like Doryuuzu and Randorosu and there's definitely going to be Sandstorm if not even more Sandstorm this generation.

 

[Ryu Shimazu]

I try not to read too much into Gen5, I want surprises, but meh, it's really friggin' hard. This generation looks so beautiful. Which is why I don't know how weather teams are doing at all.

 

[Claire Diviner]

While rain and sun will be very popular the moment DroughtTales and DrizzleToed are released, Sandstorm usage will also be just as popular, especially as countermeasures. What we also must take into consideration would be that stat-wise, Ninetales and Politoed leaves a bit to be desired, whilst TTar has the stats fitting of a pseudo-legend. With the battle for weather control, and a wide pool of Pokémon benefitting from them all (well, maybe not so much for Hail), you can believe TTar and Hippo will remain powerful staples for Gen V's metagame.

 

[Zook]

Sandstorm will remain on top because of how much better all of the sandstorm-related Pokemon are in comparison to ones which benefit from rain, sun, or hail.

 

[Wave⁂]

Not true. Kingdra / Ludicolo / Kabutops / Quilfish / Omastar / Gorebyss are scary in the rain, more so than Doryuuzu. Sandstorm will remain on top because Tyranitar is a beast and because it deals residual damage.

 

[kirbyraeg]

That makes me sad, because sandstorm is boring but there is no better abuser of weather than Dorry and Garchomp. Not even Kingdra or Ludicolo.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

It seems Sand Veil wasn't good enough so they threw in Sand Throw and Sand Strength or whatever they decided to call the translations. That aside, Ninetales seems like a solid check to Doryuuzu, outspeeding it and threatening with a Sun-boosted STAB Flamethrower or Fire Blast. In the same vein I guess something stupid like Choice Scarf Politoed with Ice Beam could be an interesting way to hit Garchomp.

Edit - Until you get outsped.

 

[Zook]

Rain gets a few golden Pokemon, but sandstorm gets a lot of all-around good Pokemon. All of those Pokemon you listed aren't very good if it isn't raining, with the exception of the Shell Smashers, and even then you can see a Shell Smash coming from a mile away and just Mischievous Heart Taunt it.

That makes me sad, because sandstorm is boring but there is no better abuser of weather than Dorry and Garchomp. Not even Kingdra or Ludicolo.

Sandstorm is only boring because for a long time it was the only viable weather team and was overused. Really, fighting in a sandstorm is waaay cooler than fighting in bright light or during a rainy day.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Keep in mind that there are plenty of abilities that can be abused in sun and rain respectively:

Sunny Day
-------------
Chlorophyll
Solar Power
Leaf Guard
Flower Gift
Forecast

Rain Dance
-------------
Swift Swim
Rain Dish
Dry Skin
Forecast
Hydration

Also, note the benefits the weather brings:

Sunny Day
------------
- Boosts the power of Fire-type moves
- Solarbeam can be fired immediately
- Water damage is halved
- Thunder's Acc is reduced to 50
- Synthesis, Morning Sun, and Moonlight restores 75% of the user's HP

Rain Dance
-------------
- Water-type moves are boosted
- Fire damage is halved
- Thunder's Acc becomes 100
- Solarbeam requires 2 turns of charge

As you can see, there's a massive amount of Pokémon that benefit from those two weather effects. Of course, Sandstorm has its obvious strengths as well:

Sandstorm Abilities
----------------------
Sand Veil
Sand Strength
Sand Throw

Sandstorm Effects
--------------------
- All non-Rock, Ground and Steel-type Pokemon takes damage each turn
- All Rock-types receives a 50% boost to their Sp. Defense

There. The residual damage and Sp. Defense boost are the selling points to Sandstorm. It is indeed a great weather effect, but to say it will completely dominate over all other weather is just blind and shallow. Remember that there will always be variables in the metagame that can effectively counter other variables. On top of that, prediction and mind games also plays a huge role as well. I'm sure Sandstorm will beat a Rain Dance team with proper prediction and all, but one mustn't ignore the fact that Rain Dance and Sunny Day teams contain Water and Grass Pokemon that carry STAB super-effective Water and Grass moves that will still hit the oftentimes Rock and Ground-based Pokemon found in Sandstorm teams as well.

 

[Chis]

Parasect in rain is too good; I've been using him lately. The new sleeping mechanics, sub and leech seeding feels so good.

Also, what about hail? It's either rain or ss on PO.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Also, what about hail? It's either rain or ss on PO.

Unfortunately, Hail doesn't receive much in the way of support.

Hail Abilities
--------------
Snow Cloak
Ice Body

Hail Effects
-------------
- Damages non-Ice-type Pokémon each turn.
- Blizzard's Acc is increased to 100.

As you can see, there is little Hail support. There aren't any Abilities that raises Speed (or any other stat outside of Evasion) in Hail, and Hail itself gives no boosts to anything other than Blizzard's Acc. No Defense boost, no boost to the power of Ice-type moves. Basically, when it comes to weather, Nintendo gave Hail whatever they could scrape off the bottom of the sh*t barrel. That's not to say Hail teams are useless, as I have a Hail team raised in my SoulSilver. It's just that when it comes to weather, Hail will be seen as the most inferior.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Last I checked Ice-types got a 50% defense boost in hail in Gen V.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Mamoswine could be an interesting asset to Hail teams, through his Dream World ability in Thick Fat, and newly acquired STAB Icicle Drop, but as far as everything else in Hail bar Walrein is concerned it's crap. It loses to the other weathers too, so I doubt we'll see much use of Hail, as we've alwyas never had.

 

[Kofu]

Last I checked Ice-types got a 50% defense boost in hail in Gen V.

Unfortunately, that was a myth.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Awwwwwwwwww.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Unfortunately, that was a myth.

Awwwwwwwwww.

Almost as good as Swimming Goggles, I'd say.

Though on a more serious note Rain Dance would have blown the **** out of everything if Swimming Goggles actually existed. Even Sandstorm would be given a run for its money thanks to that.

Feraligatr @ Swimming Goggles
Encourage / Adamant
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
~ Swords Dance / Dragon Dance
~ Aqua Tail / Aqua Jet
~ Ice Punch
~ Earthquake

Yesssss.

 

[Wave⁂]

Last I checked Ice-types got a 50% defense boost in hail in Gen V.

=O

Unfortunately, that was a myth.

D:

Man, I got all excited, too. You guys are terrible.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Yeah, I was too. It's debunked in the research thread, but I haven't looked in the research thread...until now