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Pokémon - The 5th Generation

Spire

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Now come on, we already have one of those. Not Rock/Ice, but a mountain goat nonetheless.

Also, the talk of flying Pokemon being too small made me remember something...
Recently, I decided to rewatch the first Pokemon movie, just for fun. I noticed multiple errors in Pokemon names. And I'm 90% sure they weren't on purpose.

So you know how everyone has to make it over to that island, but the ferry's canceled, right? Well the guy that flies over on his Pidgeot, tells Ash, when asked that he flew over on his Pidgeotto. What the crap.
Also, while Team Rocket's hiding in the place where all of the clones are coming out and being stored, etc., and the Poke Balls go through the machine, it shows the sillhouette of each Pokemon. The first one is Scyther, and they say Alakazam. But they get no others wrong.

Seriously, you'd think they could get it right.
[/random tangent]
Laaaaaaaaame. How could they get that information wrong? Pidgeot and Pidgeotto is understandable, but Scyther and Alakazam? What?

Don't forget when they rode their water Pokemon to the island - I'm pretty sure they were Staryu/Starmie and Squirtle. COME ON, that would never happen.
I think when the translation of hte movie was made, 4Kids screwed it up (they are the ones who do that right?)....

But yea I remember that!!! The 1st movie was actually entertaining by the way-the only good one in my opinion.. I never watche dthe others though XD
Yeah, the first was entertaining because it had a good plot, interesting scenery, and Mewtwo. I saw the 2nd and 3rd movies, but they paled in comparison to the first. The second was bizarre and just had the Legendary birds fighting throughout the whole movie. The third was trippy as hell. Entei was supposedly this telepathic girl's father who froze the whole world into crystal. Also, there was some strange floating staircase, and the Unown just ****ed everything up. You can tell that I can't remember much at all. Oh, Ash ditched Charizard in this movie. That's why it sucked.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

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oh yea I remember the unknown movie! And teh legendary birds movie. They were ok--at teh time.. but the 1st is still enjoyable 2 me :) But yea the entei one was kinda..wacky haha
 

Silverline

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Laaaaaaaaame. How could they get that information wrong? Pidgeot and Pidgeotto is understandable, but Scyther and Alakazam? What?

Don't forget when they rode their water Pokemon to the island - I'm pretty sure they were Staryu/Starmie and Squirtle. COME ON, that would never happen.

Yeah, the first was entertaining because it had a good plot, interesting scenery, and Mewtwo. I saw the 2nd and 3rd movies, but they paled in comparison to the first. The second was bizarre and just had the Legendary birds fighting throughout the whole movie. The third was trippy as hell. Entei was supposedly this telepathic girl's father who froze the whole world into crystal. Also, there was some strange floating staircase, and the Unown just ****ed everything up. You can tell that I can't remember much at all. Oh, Ash ditched Charizard in this movie. That's why it sucked.
The only thing I ever liked about the Second movie was the Song of Lugia in the end. I'm just a huge fan of big Orchestra bits and that's exactly what the song was like. As for the first and third movies...well, lets just say that the music was good.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

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I can't remember mcuh about the 2nd, including teh song. What i remember is slowking, a bunch of powerful bird, and ash being the guy in the middle of it all.
 

Firus

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Pure flying would also have another strength, fighting would be not very effective, normal+flying makes it normaly efective.
Ah yeah, forgot about that.

Yea I know dive was solely for an hm, but I enjoyed using the move...! I don't think they should just get rid of moves. Maybe change from hm 2 tm and vice versa. But not dump it completely!

And yea you shouldn't be a ble 2 fly ANYWHERE--that's to convenient.

Also--more bug and fire type pokemon need to be in the game. And that's that. I know there's a few fire types, but come on, not many bugs. And almost all of them resemble each other. :/ Bring some bugs please! I'd love to be a bug trainer :) haha

Also--I've heard people say that not all pokemon are professional team material. That needs to change. All pokemon (at least 2nd evo's and up) deserve the opportunity to make it into a pro's roster. What I'm saying is--make the stats better for some who are deemed 'useless' or 'not good enough' or whatever. I, personally, would just use the pokemon I'd like. But some people only use the ones wth certain stat 'opportunities'?? I think every pokemon should have stat opportunities...?

Also, fix dunsparce. Really, what's the point of his existance? I can't remember, but I don't think he even has an evo, does he?? If anyone knows how he is useful, please tell me!
I think that, rather than having Dive as an HM or even TM (I never did like the move in battle), there should be a scuba outfit, or an oxygen tank or something that you obtain, and that may be used as Dive. You need a Pokemon with Surf, you float above the deep water and equip the oxygen tank, and your Pokemon automatically takes you underwater. Honestly, it can't be that hard to dive into water.

Some other cool pokemon types would be Fighting/Flying, Grass/Ghost, Dark/Dragon, Electric/Bug, & Rock/Ice.
Yeah, I'd like some new types, and those sound like some nice ones. I'd really like to see some more Bugs. It's a really interesting type, and is actually a fairly viable attacking type. But there are very few bugs out there, very few interesting Bug combinations--Bug/Ghost for Shedinja is just about the only interesting one. Bug/Water with Surskit was certainly interesting, but Surskit is hardly useable in and of itself, and it doesn't stay Water type when it evolves. The only other Bug types are Bug/Poison, Bug/Flying (which have been done ad nauseum), Bug/Rock, Bug/Ground, and plain Bug. Blech.

As for Flying, I would like the option to actually fly on your Pokemon (and make sure that every Pokemon able to learn Fly is given a flying sprite; same goes for surf) high above the clouds where you can actually encounter and fight other Flying (or perhaps even Dragon) Pokemon in the skies. As for what Pokemon should fly and surf, I find that flying on a Pidgey is just ludicrous and should be removed (that goes for all small Pokemon). Flying and Surfing should be a treat and should only be possible with a large Pokemon, meaning you either caught one, or spent time raising one. Also, I'd say that all Stage 3, and probably some Stage 2 Pokemon should be able to fly and/or surf (given that they are able to learn the move).

Think about it though - flying over the world. It could be integrated with finding a Legendary Flying Pokemon perhaps, or maybe the new "Team" that's threatening the world builds a big blimp-ship of a sort, and you have to chase it down by flying on a Pokemon, boarding the ship, and battling the goons and what not. I really hope a ten year old does not do this though, as it would ruin the concept completely.
I would enjoy having that as maybe a piece of the plot in one place. I wouldn't want it to happen everytime you fly, as fighting would be even more unrealistic in the sky than on water. There shouldn't be random encounters up there, just flight to a floating island, or a ship, or whatever would be up there.

You really have to wonder why they don't make use of those different type combinations.
I can give you a pretty good answer. Probably because they want to hold out on certain types, and then every other generation rave and rant about how there are all of these new, interesting types. Remember that happening this generation? Wow, Dark/Poison. Revelation.

Pokemon Generations tend to repeat too much. We always get Grass, Fire, Water starters, we always get a new rodent family, a new bird family, a new fish family (or two), a new three-stage plant family (or two), a new electric rodent, etc, etc.

I would love a Pokemon game that's based in a much more industrialized world, with vast cities to catch Pokemon in (yes that's right, alleyways, sewers, and what not will serve as "grass"). This would mean that we would see many more electric, fire, steel, dark, poison, ghost, and fighting types over the overload of grass and water types that we've been accustomed to receiving every generation. Oh, how I love urban sludge.
To change the starters at this point would be just an attempt to be different. While I can't think of much else they can do with Grass, Fire, and Water, after four generations it's not so much as repetetivity as tradition, in my opinion. Had they mixed it up last generation or the generation before, it wouldn't feel like that, but now it's just breaking with tradition to do something different, or because they're out of ideas.

The bird family/rodent family could use some change. However, the fish family and three-stage plant family are...well, you could say that about any Pokemon. Every generation there's that new dragon (or dragon-esque) family. Dragonite, then Tyranitar, then Salamence, and now Garchomp. Every generation there's those two single-form Pokemon (or they start out that way, anyways), one exclusive to each version; Electabuzz and Magmar, Gligar and Skarmory, Mawile and Sableye, and Mime Jr. and Bonsly. Every generation that happens. The bird and rodent are always the only two Pokemon in the first route. The others that repeat are technically repeating, but it's not repetitive because they always change in some way.

I'd love some more of those types, but I just don't see a city as working very well. Thinking realistically, how many animals do you normally see in a city? Maybe a stray cat or dog, maybe two, but not much else. In the wild, where normal games take place, is where you're bound to find Pokemon. And any Pokemon living in sewers will probably get sick...
It's an interesting idea, but I don't really think it'd work very well. Plus, I don't think the environment is why we're getting so many of one or two types--it's because those types of Pokemon are easier to invent than others.

And after you beat the elite four you can go back to the wreck to find it overgrown with palnts and have some new rare pokemon in the area.
Actually, you bring up an important point (or reminded me of one I had thought of...same thing). They really need to design parts of the game for replaying. I've played through the Elite Four tons of times in all of my games, and EVERY TIME they say the same thing. They act like I should be surprised by the Champion, like I just rekindled Volkner's appetite for battling, like I just stopped Team Galactic, and like I'm just entering the Hall of Fame for the first time. They ought to set it up so that it recognizes that you've done it before.

If we get get some good Pokemon that AREN'T ruined by a 4X weakness, I'd be happy. I mean look at Golem, Aggron and Scizor. Great pokemon that would all be used so much more often if it wasn't the fact that they die to one super effective attack, in Aggron's case, two different ones.

In fact, especially with this generation, Tanking pokemon are almost non existant because of all the different moves and such. If they were to change how the system was in terms where a Pokemon like Aggron could actually be USED, I'd be happy.
Aggron doesn't have any 4x weaknesses...? Certainly not two.

I don't know about the virtual world idea, it wouldn't make much sense... XD
I agree. I think the virtual world idea is a little...odd.

That's an awesome idea! Okay, I just came up with a quick backstory. In this region of the world, there is an Electric/Rock (or Electric/Steel) Legendary which harnesses an incredibly potent energy (some would say pure) and this syndicate wants to capture the Pokemon and drain it of all of its energy to power their economic empire's headquarters at so-and-so city (keep in mind that this takes place in my previously mentioned industrious Pokemon world).

So, you learn that they have traveled to a faraway island or something where the Pokemon has been residing, so you go there and battle some goons and an officer who stop you from boarding their ship. After defeating them, they jump on the ship and flee, leaving you behind. Also, say you go there with a friend of yours who then provides a ride on a Pokemon of his/hers and you both ride on it to chase down the ship. Eventually, you track it down, board it, and team up to take down all of the goons and eventually the leader, who resides in the large room with the chained down Legendary. You must defeat the leader, who once defeated, forced the Legendary to fight for him. After defeating it, the Legendary exerts massive amounts of energy, overriding the ship of all of its power, but then saves both you and your friend, and the leader and his crew are all killed in the crash (or so it seems). However, because of the massive Electrical outburst, the Legendary is drained of its harnessed power and reverts to being only a Rock type (or Steel). At this point, it becomes immobile and stands as a statue in the debris of the ship, but before you can leave, your friend suggests that you inspect it as he/she sees something glowing in its chest. Upon inspection, you obtain a Key Item - some sort of Pure Electrical Energy Orb. Also, your friend gives you HM02, Fly.

So, after realizing that there are no bodies in the debris, you realize that they must have escaped the ship before it crashed (by parachute), so you then set off to further topple their regime. This Orb must be restored to its full power so that you can reactivate the Legendary Pokemon, but in order to do so, you must continue on with your quest. Eventually, the leader of this syndicate finds out about your orb and takes it from you, imprisoning you in a cell in their headquarters, which you must then escape from. Maybe I'll add more later on.
It's a good plot, but I don't like how the legendary is central in the plot. I liked it better in the first two generations where the legendaires felt so awesome because it was sort of a mysterious, unknown type of thing instead of the legendary getting stuck right in front of you.

That's a deep plot.. And I like it.
Maybe the 'evil-doers' hier team rocket? Sorry I'd just really like to see Team Rocket back in action haha, but it's very interesting, and I like the plot! And the concept of the pokemon!

edit: oh I see what your saying about togekiss now... Yea I really don't see how dunsparce could be effective--at first I thought he'd be a magikarp pokemon--as in you have to put up with his uselessness until he evolves into a real kick *** pokemon--but that doesn't happen. :/
Hire? No, Team Rocket should BE the evildoers. That would set Team Rocket down to a lower level.

Even if it's not Team Rocket, this syndicate is just as bad, if not worse. They want to completely drain the life out of a Legendary Pokemon, who I just decided should be a mythical creature in the religion of some foreign people who believe it to be their all-knowing protector and has now been taken from them. Furthermore, they are being oppressed by this syndicate who is trying to force them from their village in order to raze it and build a seaport in its place that runs on (you guessed it) energy stolen from their God. That's evil right there.
Despite their evilness, in some video games (Sonic comes to mind), it doesn't feel right with a different villain. They've been using alternate villain one after another forever now. Erazor Djinn was awful, Iblis or Mephiles or whoever he was in Sonic 2006 was stupid...everyone is taking over Robotnik's rightful slot and it gets worse every time. The Sonic Adventure games and Sonic Heroes did a good job of having him the villain yet having something else the final boss. But having an alternate evil the entire time is just annoying.
So no matter what this syndicate does, I feel things can't be right without Team Rocket. That's a good thing that Team Rocket has, but it's not all that it has.

Budah! And it's special ability is if you rub it's belly you'll have good luck :) lol..

Wait is Budah hindu? Hahga...
But yea that's pretty dang evil...! Team Rocket could at least help out? Or maybe they can be doing their own thing? I just wan team rocket in somehow haha :)

But that's an interesting/exciting plot, and would serve well.
Buddha is related to both Hinduism and Buddhism.

I think when the translation of hte movie was made, 4Kids screwed it up (they are the ones who do that right?)....

But yea I remember that!!! The 1st movie was actually entertaining by the way-the only good one in my opinion.. I never watche dthe others though XD
Probably. But I mean, sheesh--you'd think they'd be able to notice it when they translate it. I wasn't even looking for it and I found it, while they should be looking over the script, LOOKING for errors to fix.
Kind of reminds me of the time in NewsRadio where a book got translated from English to Japanese, then back again and ended up being a completely different book...
 

Firus

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Laaaaaaaaame. How could they get that information wrong? Pidgeot and Pidgeotto is understandable, but Scyther and Alakazam? What?
Yeah...still, Pidgeotto is like, half the size of Pidgeot. You see him RIDING on it, so it couldn't be Pidgeotto.

Don't forget when they rode their water Pokemon to the island - I'm pretty sure they were Staryu/Starmie and Squirtle. COME ON, that would never happen.

Yeah, the first was entertaining because it had a good plot, interesting scenery, and Mewtwo. I saw the 2nd and 3rd movies, but they paled in comparison to the first. The second was bizarre and just had the Legendary birds fighting throughout the whole movie. The third was trippy as hell. Entei was supposedly this telepathic girl's father who froze the whole world into crystal. Also, there was some strange floating staircase, and the Unown just ****ed everything up. You can tell that I can't remember much at all. Oh, Ash ditched Charizard in this movie. That's why it sucked.
Yeah, don't forget that Jessie and James somehow made it with Arbok and Weezing...

I personally wasn't entirely impressed with any of the three entirely. If I were to pick the best of three evils, the first would probably win with the second somewhere close behind (with third in waaay dead last). In both the first and the second movie, Ash is this all-powerful amazing chosen person. First of all, if Mewtwo and Mew had REALLY collided with Ash, he would've imploded, not turned to stone. Second of all, the tears part was stupid. It did have a good plot in general, though. There are obviously some stupid parts, but...
Something that did bug me was the part with the clones. Okay, so there's Venusaur, Charizard, and Blastoise on both sides. Why don't you STRATEGIZE and at LEAST send your Charizard against Venusaur so you get a little less screwed? Instead they're determined to beat the clones with their own Pokemon.

The second movie...well, that bugged me because A) It gives you a headache (those bird cries are ear-splitting and B) Ash was spoken of in some mythology. Those are just two things. But to go more in-depth...

Okay, so those spheres are glass. How the heck is it that, with all of what he did, none of them shattered, especially the Ice one? Also, Tracey shouldn't have even been in the movie. He had two purposes in the movie; at one point, where Melody and Misty are debating over Ash being/not being Misty's boyfriend, he runs up and says "You guys talkin' about me?" and when Ash is in the water at one point, he pulls in the rope. He does nothing else. Seriously. I was keeping track. Another gripe is Lugia's Song at the end. While I like the song, she is CLEARLY not playing that with a flute the entire time. It's unrealistic, because you hear cymbals, and a lot of other instruments Not to mention I don't even think there are that many notes on the flute. Sure doesn't look like it. Another thing; why is Lugia the "beast of the sea"? It lives in the water, but it's Flying/Psychic.

One final thing. At the end, Ash's mom busts in and is all upset because she can't stop thinking about her little boy in the real world possibly getting hurt. I have news for you, lady. There's a solution; don't let your ten year-old go on an adventure.

The third movie was very trippy. I don't remember it all that well, but I remember it not being very good.
 

Ilex

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Iirc they screwed up the names of Pidgeot, Scyther and Sandslash in the first movie because they were 'testing the fans'. Sounds like a sad excuse to me.
 

Spire

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It's a good plot, but I don't like how the legendary is central in the plot. I liked it better in the first two generations where the legendaires felt so awesome because it was sort of a mysterious, unknown type of thing instead of the legendary getting stuck right in front of you.



Hire? No, Team Rocket should BE the evildoers. That would set Team Rocket down to a lower level.



Despite their evilness, in some video games (Sonic comes to mind), it doesn't feel right with a different villain. They've been using alternate villain one after another forever now. Erazor Djinn was awful, Iblis or Mephiles or whoever he was in Sonic 2006 was stupid...everyone is taking over Robotnik's rightful slot and it gets worse every time. The Sonic Adventure games and Sonic Heroes did a good job of having him the villain yet having something else the final boss. But having an alternate evil the entire time is just annoying.
So no matter what this syndicate does, I feel things can't be right without Team Rocket. That's a good thing that Team Rocket has, but it's not all that it has.
Actually, with the Legendary I had in mind, you do not capture it. You help to restore its power so you can return it to the people that worship it, but you do not get to capture it ever. There are other Legendaries that would not tie in with the plot that you can capture - mysterious Legendaries, and the only way to catch them is to: 1) catch wind of this "legend", 2) seek out clues regarding where it could be located, 3) travel to the destination, enter its "lair", so to speak, traverse through the lair, whether it be caves, a building, a forest, etc, etc, then FINALLY you can battle and capture it, or trigger it to do something else like escape to another location or something. However, to go back to our "Legendaries should just be extremely rare Pokemon rather than one-of-a-kinds," idea, that would probably come into play regarding the Legendary Pokemon in the game - which means that perhaps a few other trainers in the world ALSO have a Legendary.

Now, I was not saying that the organization that I was referring to was not Team Rocket, rather just pointing out the actions that they would partake, whether they be Team Rocket or not. I was just trying to point out that they are indeed worse than Team Rocket was in 1st Gen, so if they are TR, then they have certainly grown worse.

EDIT: Oh, and for the city idea. I'm actually designing this world right now, drawing out a custom map like Ilex did (which I have to say, I was entirely inspired by your work, Ilex). The city will be a metropolis, but will only take up a small portion of the map, with most of it still remaining as wilderness. However, the cities will for the most part be more industrious with factories and tall buildings/skyscrapers. Only Pokemon can be found in the Metropolis, not in the other normal-sized cities, and even so, they will be sparse. For instance, you may find some Grimer, Muk, members of the Magnemite family, Slakoth, Munchlax, etc in the alleyways. The sewers would be home to Grimer, Muk, and perhaps some other dirty Pokemon... like Feebas.
 

Firus

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Yeah, it does. Fighting & Ground.

Sorry, but what pokemon is that? I don't remember a pokemon like that.
Uh...OH. I thought he was Ground/Steel for some reason. My bad.

I was making a joke. Arceus is a goat, and it's at the peak of a mountain, so...yeah, wasn't all that funny. Oh well.

Iirc they screwed up the names of Pidgeot, Scyther and Sandslash in the first movie because they were 'testing the fans'. Sounds like a sad excuse to me.
I knew there was another one. They called Sandslash Sandshrew, right?

And yeah, they weren't testing the fans. That's as believable as Nintendo's statement that they didn't mean that "geeks and otaku" comment.
 

Spire

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I was making a joke. Arceus is a goat, and it's at the peak of a mountain, so...yeah, wasn't all that funny. Oh well.
I got the joke and got a good chuckle out of it ;) NOVI GOAT!

I didn't say anything because I wanted to see if anyone else got it. Oh well.
 

Firus

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You misunderstood me, What I ment was that Aggron dies more then Golem and Scizor since it has more 4X weaknesses.
Nah, I was just confused. I was thinking Aggron was Ground/Steel so he didn't have ANY 4X weaknesses, but I realized my error.

I got the joke and got a good chuckle out of it ;) NOVI GOAT!

I didn't say anything because I wanted to see if anyone else got it. Oh well.
Eh, that's okay. I don't think anyone else got it, but...oh well. Glad at least someone got it.

By the way, anyone want to hear the corniest name for an Absol ever (which I came up with)? ABSOLutely. Yes, I did. :laugh: My Absol probably loathes me.
 

Spire

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I know this has been discussed, but it came back to mind. I'm really tired of Legendary Pokemon being plastered on the box-art as it ruins the surprise of its appearance. They put it on there so you'll see it and say, "oh that Pokemon is soooooo cooooooooool, I'm going to buy this game so I can catch IT (everything else does not matter)". It immediately derails your experience with the game by shifting all attention towards the legendary, and even if you tell yourself that it doesn't matter, that image is already in your head, and deep down you can't wait to get to it so you can battle and catch it. It's unfortunate that the whole game revolves around the legendary, and now it's to the point where the whole barrel of legendaries is all that matters. If only they would go back to putting the starter evolutions on the box.

However, if they are to release two versions of the game, and since there are three starters, the third gets no representation and automatically seems a bit singled out while the other two have been given more importance, and that even sticks to the player. The number of versions released is of course traditional now - always two - but now that the number "two" is directly associated with legendaries, they are created specifically for that number, and everything else is also. The plot, the geography, the concepts behind everything is based on the number two. You can choose from two different players. There are two teams in 3rd Gen, Magma and Aqua, each want to do two different things with two different Pokemon. In 4th Gen, Sinnoh is split right down the center by a mountain range, dividing the land in TWO, with TWO different Pokemon reigning over at the very top. Darkrai and Cresselia are counterparts and come as a pair, as TWO.

Of course, they always have released a third game to complete the trios of games for each generation (with FireRed and LeafGreen as an exception, and 1st Gen was just a mess all over with two blues, green, red, and yellow), but that always comes long after the pair of games for a new generation is released and usually holds no significant credibility for how the first two were shaped.

Just to note, the next generation is bound to be on the next handheld. 1st Gen was on Gameboy, 2nd Gen on Gameboy Color, 3rd Gen on Gameboy Advance, and 4th on the DS. Between 1st and 2nd was four years, 2nd and 3rd was roughly three years, and before 3rd and 4th was roughly four years. We probably won't see the 5th Gen until 2010 or 2011, and that'll definitely be on the next handheld, so we really don't know what the games will be like other than if they continue how they've been, they'll be too boring to play.

Look, the point is, the games have been heading in a conformist direction for too long now, not adopting anything innovative and original. Formula, formula, formula. There are so many great features in games nowadays that Pokemon could, and should look at for inspiration:
  • Character Creation
  • Climate Change
  • Spontinaeity in visual worldly changes (Climate Change for instance)
  • Analog control (I'm talking no more up, down, left, right)
  • Z-axis, no more walking on a flat plane; the ability to jump, climb, etc, etc. (touched on with Waterfall and Rock Climb)
  • Property ownership (touched on with secret hideouts)
And like we have spoken of before, there are many, many other things that should be implemented.



For the record, I finally figured out why Palkia is part Water and Dialga part Steel. Pearls are formed in water, and Diamond is the hardest substance on Earth, with steel being the "hardest" type of Pokemon. I'm sure most of you realized this before, but I had been blind to the decision to make one Water/Dragon and the other Steel/Dragon until now.
 

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Spire III said:
I know this has been discussed, but it came back to mind. I'm really tired of Legendary Pokemon being plastered on the box-art as it ruins the surprise of its appearance. They put it on there so you'll see it and say, "oh that Pokemon is soooooo cooooooooool, I'm going to buy this game so I can catch IT (everything else does not matter)". It immediately derails your experience with the game by shifting all attention towards the legendary, and even if you tell yourself that it doesn't matter, that image is already in your head, and deep down you can't wait to get to it so you can battle and catch it. It's unfortunate that the whole game revolves around the legendary, and now it's to the point where the whole barrel of legendaries is all that matters. If only they would go back to putting the starter evolutions on the box.
If they don't put Legendaries or starters on the box art, who can they put? Maybe the trainers could be on there :O
 

Spire

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I always thought Palkia was part Water because of space & volume while Dialga was Steel because of the metallic futuristic quality of time travel. I know, it's kind of a stretch.
It makes complete sense, but anything can take up space. I'm sure this probably went through their heads though (the space and volume aspect) and in conjunction with Pearls forming in water, that's probably where they got the idea.

If they don't put Legendaries or starters on the box art, who can they put? Maybe the trainers could be on there :O
I'm thinking just put all three starters (or their stage 3 evolutions) as a group. Trainers could work, but don't attract people like Pokemon do.
 

Firus

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I know this has been discussed, but it came back to mind. I'm really tired of Legendary Pokemon being plastered on the box-art as it ruins the surprise of its appearance. They put it on there so you'll see it and say, "oh that Pokemon is soooooo cooooooooool, I'm going to buy this game so I can catch IT (everything else does not matter)". It immediately derails your experience with the game by shifting all attention towards the legendary, and even if you tell yourself that it doesn't matter, that image is already in your head, and deep down you can't wait to get to it so you can battle and catch it. It's unfortunate that the whole game revolves around the legendary, and now it's to the point where the whole barrel of legendaries is all that matters. If only they would go back to putting the starter evolutions on the box.

However, if they are to release two versions of the game, and since there are three starters, the third gets no representation and automatically seems a bit singled out while the other two have been given more importance, and that even sticks to the player. The number of versions released is of course traditional now - always two - but now that the number "two" is directly associated with legendaries, they are created specifically for that number, and everything else is also. The plot, the geography, the concepts behind everything is based on the number two. You can choose from two different players. There are two teams in 3rd Gen, Magma and Aqua, each want to do two different things with two different Pokemon. In 4th Gen, Sinnoh is split right down the center by a mountain range, dividing the land in TWO, with TWO different Pokemon reigning over at the very top. Darkrai and Cresselia are counterparts and come as a pair, as TWO.
Yeah...poor Bulbasaur. That traumatized me. I always wanted an english translation of Green and I never got it. (Okay, traumatize is an exaggeration...but you get the point.)

But yeah, they really do need to stop that. The deciding factor is now the legendary, because that's the huge difference. I mean, I went with Diamond partially because of Dialga, but mostly because of tradition; I got Red first, then Gold, then Ruby...it was a tradition that I get the "main" game. Obviously there is no main one, but it's always "Red/Blue", not usually "Blue/Red". I always chose that one. I made an exception with Leaf Green because I would finally be getting my "green" version, albeit not as nice as it would've been if I got a real Green version.

I'm not a huge fan of any of the legendaries in fourth generation, except for the one I consider non-legendary, Shaymin. But I preferred the idea of time control over space and dimension control, so I chose Dialga. Not that I've touched either since I caught them in their respective versions...

But you bring up a good point. We'd probably have it spoiled with Serebii and such anyways, but we don't get to discover the legendary. Not only are they shoved right in front of our faces, but you see them when you buy the game. Although I think we all know why this is; because the little kids adore the legendaries and will be more enticed to buy the games with a legendary on it, and god forbid they have to search for it in-game.

Of course, they always have released a third game to complete the trios of games for each generation (with FireRed and LeafGreen as an exception, and 1st Gen was just a mess all over with two blues, green, red, and yellow), but that always comes long after the pair of games for a new generation is released and usually holds no significant credibility for how the first two were shaped.

Just to note, the next generation is bound to be on the next handheld. 1st Gen was on Gameboy, 2nd Gen on Gameboy Color, 3rd Gen on Gameboy Advance, and 4th on the DS. Between 1st and 2nd was four years, 2nd and 3rd was roughly three years, and before 3rd and 4th was roughly four years. We probably won't see the 5th Gen until 2010 or 2011, and that'll definitely be on the next handheld, so we really don't know what the games will be like other than if they continue how they've been, they'll be too boring to play.
I wouldn't necessarily assume that. Gold and Silver weren't really on Gameboy Color--they had color, but the only one specifically only for Gameboy Color was Crystal. Even so, the Gameboy Color was hardly its own generation, with very few games exclusively for it.
For 3rd gen, they had R/S/E, but also FR/LG. It had two sets of games, however, both of them were in the same generation.
So unless we get a Gold/Silver remake (which I highly doubt we will), I wouldn't be surprised if we see 5th generation on the DS. Depending on how long it lasts, that is. Also depending on how many godforsaken spinoffs we get. If they would scrap the spinoffs and put all of their effort into making one kick*** fifth generation, they'd be much better off.

Look, the point is, the games have been heading in a conformist direction for too long now, not adopting anything innovative and original. Formula, formula, formula. There are so many great features in games nowadays that Pokemon could, and should look at for inspiration:
  • Character Creation
  • Climate Change
  • Spontinaeity in visual worldly changes (Climate Change for instance)
  • Analog control (I'm talking no more up, down, left, right)
  • Z-axis, no more walking on a flat plane; the ability to jump, climb, etc, etc. (touched on with Waterfall and Rock Climb)
  • Property ownership (touched on with secret hideouts)
And like we have spoken of before, there are many, many other things that should be implemented.
Agreed, 100%.

For the record, I finally figured out why Palkia is part Water and Dialga part Steel. Pearls are formed in water, and Diamond is the hardest substance on Earth, with steel being the "hardest" type of Pokemon. I'm sure most of you realized this before, but I had been blind to the decision to make one Water/Dragon and the other Steel/Dragon until now.
I guess that would make sense. Good job figuring that out, although now that you say it it seems like it should've been so easy to decipher.
 

Darkslash

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Do you think that Pokemon games have to be more sinister? I mean experimenting on Pokemon is enough and inhumane as it is, but what about HUMANS them selves? What if they make like a super soldier/trainer kind of enemy trainer? One that almost acts like a real Person in real life?

I think i toook it a little too far on that one but its possible right?
 

zrky

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ahhhhhh, to much to quote.
Im sure some people have thought of this before, but shouldn't khangaskan have a pre-evolution, and pinsir an evolution utilizing the metal coat.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

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Pinsir with metal coat evo.. never thought of that! Good idea! IT keeps him parallel to scyther...
And Khangaskan never occured to me at all! I think that's a pretty good idea.
It could be called Hunattil--attila the hun--him and kangaskhan were linked insome way weren't tehy? lol...

but yes, great ideas

edit: hey spire III, add the evo machine to your list of concepts!

what I'm talkin' bout:
"Character Creation
Climate Change
Spontinaeity in visual worldly changes (Climate Change for instance)
Analog control (I'm talking no more up, down, left, right)
Z-axis, no more walking on a flat plane; the ability to jump, climb, etc, etc. (touched on with Waterfall and Rock Climb)
Property ownership (touched on with secret hideouts) "
 

Darkslash

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Could you explain what you mean a little more? Like a trainer who, himself, fights instead of pkmn?
No like a trainer who works at the "evil organization" as a Admin or trump card which would have the same difficulty as a member of the Elite 4. Like after you beat the FINAL Gym, the evil team then sends their Final trainers which are enhanced trainers and them and their Pokemon are off the charts


AND NO POKEMON PLATFORMER!!1!!!11111!!!!!
Unless they make a spinoff game where the Protagonist of the anime or evil and **** and you have to fight them in hand to hand combat :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

But no pokemon platformer.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

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Oh, I see--basically... a bad ***? Haha I get it--and yea, kinda how Giovanni was for Team Rocket.... but stronger? Well Giovanni is almost elite four material....
 

zrky

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what if you could start as part of the evil organization instead of a 10 year old kid
 

Spire

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Pinsir with metal coat evo.. never thought of that! Good idea! IT keeps him parallel to scyther...
And Khangaskan never occured to me at all! I think that's a pretty good idea.
It could be called Hunattil--attila the hun--him and kangaskhan were linked insome way weren't tehy? lol...

but yes, great ideas

edit: hey spire III, add the evo machine to your list of concepts!

what I'm talkin' bout:
"Character Creation
Climate Change
Spontinaeity in visual worldly changes (Climate Change for instance)
Analog control (I'm talking no more up, down, left, right)
Z-axis, no more walking on a flat plane; the ability to jump, climb, etc, etc. (touched on with Waterfall and Rock Climb)
Property ownership (touched on with secret hideouts) "
There's been so many great ideas throughout this thread, that trying to staple them to the OP would be insane. The OP is merely the first post stating many ideas and from them have we branched into many new ideas. That's how a thread grows and should continue to grow.

But perhaps I'll make a section regarding some new ideas that have popped up over the course of the thread.

what if you could start as part of the evil organization instead of a 10 year old kid
Oh, I see--basically... a bad ***? Haha I get it--and yea, kinda how Giovanni was for Team Rocket.... but stronger? Well Giovanni is almost elite four material....
yea Giovanni but maybe 1.9x as strong. Maybe even 2x as strong as Lance. Now that would make you have a run for your money...
We need another final boss, not the Elite Four and the Champion. That's gotten really old now, and frankly, I don't want to fight the Elite Four anymore. We need a solid story that continues on and on. The story of D/P just ended before you even got the last badge pretty much, when you confront Palkia or Dialga. It just ended. What the hell? I want an epic story, and yes, with TEAM ROCKET and perhaps the return of Giovanni, or even the induction of Blue (Gary) into Team Rocket in which he runs the organization.
 

zrky

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Maybe instead of RED he could be called BLUE:laugh:

The inclusion of Red again, would be really cool. Like Spire said, the Elite 4 get really boring.
 

Ilex

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PLOT PLEASE. I want the characters and antagonists to be dimesional and have personalities. Wow, imagine a team boss that has some form of depth. I'm kinda sick of the boring and stock plots that happen every generation.

I like the idea of the protagonist starting out in Team Rocket. Maybe he steals a rare Pokemon (You have a choice of 3), escapes and Team Rcoket is trying to catch him throughout the story. The legendaries shouldn't even be a part of the story, just kinda in a side-quest or whatever. I would like it to involve more politics regarding the inner works of Team Rocket with different admins having their own agendas and ambitions in the group. This is a really cliche storyline...but maybe the protangonist is expecting to succeed his father as Rocket Boss but he doesn't want to. Then of course, some of the admins of Rocket want to claim the title so they're trying to hunt him down (Kill him, but it won't state that) while his father is trying to get him back into the organization.

Anything would be better than 'Lol, Ima poketrainer nao'.
 

Spire

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PLOT PLEASE. I want the characters and antagonists to be dimesional and have personalities. Wow, imagine a team boss that has some form of depth. I'm kinda sick of the boring and stock plots that happen every generation.

I like the idea of the protagonist starting out in Team Rocket. Maybe he steals a rare Pokemon (You have a choice of 3), escapes and Team Rcoket is trying to catch him throughout the story. The legendaries shouldn't even be a part of the story, just kinda in a side-quest or whatever. I would like it to involve more politics regarding the inner works of Team Rocket with different admins having their own agendas and ambitions in the group. This is a really cliche storyline...but maybe the protangonist is expecting to succeed his father as Rocket Boss but he doesn't want to. Then of course, some of the admins of Rocket want to claim the title so they're trying to hunt him down (Kill him, but it won't state that) while his father is trying to get him back into the organization.

Anything would be better than 'Lol, Ima poketrainer nao'.
Hahaha at that last sentence. You have me laughing. The plot that I mocked up on yesterpage or so is very political, but on a much larger scale. It would of course involve the inner workings of Team Rocket, but also involves a non-catchable Legendary Pokemon - the first new Pokemon that is a NPC. However, this whole starting out in Team Rocket idea is great. Let's work on it.
 

LUVTOY77-ROGUE WIREFRAME

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I like teh idea of that--but isn't it kinda like colosseum? Plus if you start in rocket, you lose the main point of the game (although usually forgotten), to fill up the pokedex? However I like the idea :)
 
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