Points of clarification about Casual Vs. Competitive that everyone needs to read(WOP)

[Pink Reaper]

Less than an hour until the almighty Xmas update... Maybe everyone can get along. ^_^

The almighty Xmas update that will be exactly as great as the December 15th Roster leak? >_>

 

[orintemple]

The almighty Xmas update that will be exactly as great as the December 15th Roster leak? >_>

HAHA That's EXACTLY how good it will be.

 

[Red Exodus]

*does little dance*

I gots me a Wii, now I can finally practice in Melee again. So far I'm just messing around in event matches so I can get accustomed to my controller again.

Now I'm just gonna put aside money for Brawl and maybe a wireless router and I'm good to go.

 

[flyinfilipino]

*does little dance*

I gots me a Wii, now I can finally practice in Melee again. So far I'm just messing around in event matches so I can get accustomed to my controller again.

Now I'm just gonna put aside money for Brawl and maybe a wireless router and I'm good to go.

LUCKY...I've got about two months, I'll find a way. I don't want to get left out!

 

[The Hypnotist]

You really need to get that Wii!

 

[MookieRah]

I gots me a Wii, now I can finally practice in Melee again. So far I'm just messing around in event matches so I can get accustomed to my controller again.

Sweet. I'll have mine soon as well, I was the first guy in Tupelo to do that pre-pay reserve thing from Gamestop, so they will call me as soon as a shipment gets in.

 

[Micahc]

My brother and I just got a Wii for Christmas

Wait, why did this thread get so off topic? That's what I get for coming in at the last page...

 

[Pink Reaper]

REAL MEN USE ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just thought I'd get us back on topic XD

 

[The Hypnotist]

Hahaha, Man I was playing SSB64 today, which I haven't played in years. It's crazy slow, it has to be like 40 frames per second!

 

[Red Exodus]

Lol, the lack of airdodging, lack of up and down throws, overpowered throws and lack of side B moves gets me every time too.

 

[REDFIELD246]

TS, I agree with most of your arguments, but you really should get off your high horse. Saying that this is the last argument and that this post is so godly-important that it should be stickied is arrogant and really puts people off as far as taking you seriously. Otherwise, nice post, the people who ***** about competitive rules do get quite annoying.

EDIT: Keep in mind I can't be bothered to read all 73 pages of this thread so I don't know how it's come along.

 

[The Hypnotist]

TS, I agree with most of your arguments, but you really should get off your high horse. Saying that this is the last argument and that this post is so godly-important that it should be stickied is arrogant and really puts people off as far as taking you seriously. Otherwise, nice post, the people who ***** about competitive rules do get quite annoying.

EDIT: Keep in mind I can't be bothered to read all 73 pages of this thread so I don't know how it's come along.

I'm not on my high horse, at least I'm not trying to seem like it. Everything in the orginal post was 100% true.

 

[perpetual ownage]

Only thing wrong with the first post is that Brawl tournaments will most likely use items. Items will be left on. Thats what Mic_128 said in another thread. And on SMYN ep 25, SamauraiPanda talks to scav and M3D about competitive Brawl. Items will be on to start.

 

[thesage]

Only thing wrong with the first post is that Brawl tournaments will most likely use items. Items will be left on. Thats what Mic_128 said in another thread. And on SMYN ep 25, SamauraiPanda talks to scav and M3D about competitive Brawl. Items will be on to start.

He said they might be left on.

Most likely they won't cuz the majority of the smash competitive scene doesn't want items int tournaments. Use them in friendlies, but not in tournaments. The rest don't care, and there's like 5 people who are pro items, but in the long run, don't care either.

Items were tried, but never worked out...

 

[MookieRah]

Items will be left on early on, just long enough for people to realize the exact same thing they realized in melee. I don't understand why we have to restart the nonsense again, but oh well.

 

[Mario77]

Lol I'm new here kinda... people actualy complain about NOT using items? I would realy like to find someone that actualy WANTS to use items...

 

[Pink Reaper]

Items will be left on early on, just long enough for people to realize the exact same thing they realized in melee. I don't understand why we have to restart the nonsense again, but oh well.

Because no one ever reads the entire thread. Whenever there is a thread like this, there are a bunch of naysayers who are eventually either so horribly ***** that they leave or those like AutoBzooty who realizes that most people here are actually friendly and want to help. So a new person pops up every now and then and just decides to ignore everything that happened before hand and just starts another pointless arguement.

Edit: Oh wait, your talking about items being on at the start. Thats because there are roughly 10 Billion people who don't realize why items should be off, so we just have to show them again.

 

[perpetual ownage]

There are some competitive players who are passionate about keeping items on in Brawl. I personally don't want them on. I do think that they could work this time. Bob-ombs for example, look nerfed from the E for all footage.

 

[autobzooty]

I hope Bob-ombs aren't nerfed. They were my favorite items in Melee.


And a question for all you hard-cores out there: Do you seriously NEVER play with items or on weird stages? I understand the unpredictability not being desirable when you're playing for money, but haven't you ever sat down and had a 99 stock match with full items on Kraid's level? Sometimes weirdness isn't appropriate, but sometimes it's half the fun of the game, in my opinion.

 

[perpetual ownage]

And a question for all you hard-cores out there: Do you seriously NEVER play with items or on weird stages? I understand the unpredictability not being desirable when you're playing for money, but haven't you ever sat down and had a 99 stock match with full items on Kraid's level?

I've done that.

 

[Mike G]

I still do crazy stuff like that sometimes with my lil bro. Its mostly for the lols. but the majority of the time we play smash is spent on training him with tounery style rules.

I don't hate items at all and if its in tourneys then i'll deal with it and still try my best to win.

 

[T-major]

I love how the main message (to casual players) of this is "your wrong, fu*k you" it's so awesome!

@ EVIL peach: OH MY GOD!! SOMEONE BESIDES ME IS USING THE JAZZ MAN AVATAR!!?!?! your seriously one of the ONLY people I've seen who uses this avatar! (I've only seen about four people, including myself)

 

[Pink Reaper]

I hope Bob-ombs aren't nerfed. They were my favorite items in Melee.


And a question for all you hard-cores out there: Do you seriously NEVER play with items or on weird stages? I understand the unpredictability not being desirable when you're playing for money, but haven't you ever sat down and had a 99 stock match with full items on Kraid's level? Sometimes weirdness isn't appropriate, but sometimes it's half the fun of the game, in my opinion.

I hosted a small item tourney a few days ago at a smashfest at a friends house. We had been playing with items on all night, i just figured, what the hell why not.

 

[Crispy4001]

I hope Bob-ombs aren't nerfed. They were my favorite items in Melee.

Don't worry, even if they are nerfed you've got plenty of overpowered new additions to keep the spirit of them alive. Well almost, no other item seems to be capable of spawning off screen and walking into someone at a moments notice.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I would like to clear up one issue that has been bothering me.

Many people (on both sides of the debate) continue to refer to "playing to win" versus "playing for fun" as if playing to win is mutually exclusive of having fun. As a competitive player, I can honestly say that nothing could be farther from the truth. Even though I focus hard on using advanced tactics with winning as my primary goal, I do it because that is the most fun way for me to play. We really need to rename the other side of the argument because this problem works in reverse as well. I cannot think of a single casual smasher who does not play to win. Obviously, the mentality is different in both instances, but everyone wants to win! Winning is the whole point of even trying!

"Casual" versus "competitive" has held up pretty well as descriptions of the players' mentalities, but those should not be derived to be "play4fun" and "play2win". If anything, "fun" needs to be pulled out of this entire discussion. We wouldn't play the game if it weren't fun, so that needs to stop right now.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I hope Bob-ombs aren't nerfed. They were my favorite items in Melee.


And a question for all you hard-cores out there: Do you seriously NEVER play with items or on weird stages? I understand the unpredictability not being desirable when you're playing for money, but haven't you ever sat down and had a 99 stock match with full items on Kraid's level? Sometimes weirdness isn't appropriate, but sometimes it's half the fun of the game, in my opinion.

Sometimes I play with motion sensor bombs on hyrule. That's fun. But some items are just dumb, and we keep hem off. Like the heart.

Items would work in Brawl and I'd be fine with them if but there are some standards. I'll make a thread about it tonight.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Sometimes I play with motion sensor bombs on hyrule. That's fun. But some items are just dumb, and we keep hem off. Like the heart.

Items would work in Brawl and I'd be fine with them if but there are some standards. I'll make a thread about it tonight.

Dont. There's already about 1000 threads about Items on/off. Yes everyone has an opinion, but in all honesty it doesn't really matter. The BRoom will decide how the mainstream competitive rules will work, some will disagree but most will go along with it, and a Mod will more than likely post a thread explaining why the rules are as such. There's no need to make a thread about items right now as we haven't even gotten to play the full game yet.

 

[Cereal Rabbit]

I hope Bob-ombs aren't nerfed. They were my favorite items in Melee.


And a question for all you hard-cores out there: Do you seriously NEVER play with items or on weird stages? I understand the unpredictability not being desirable when you're playing for money, but haven't you ever sat down and had a 99 stock match with full items on Kraid's level? Sometimes weirdness isn't appropriate, but sometimes it's half the fun of the game, in my opinion.

I seriously play on Hyrule and Brinstar Depth at least once a day or more. Those stages are too good. Maybe items on, but not on full blast.

Bob-ombs were Nerfed, Gimpy says so.

 

[Red Exodus]

I hope Bob-ombs aren't nerfed. They were my favorite items in Melee.


And a question for all you hard-cores out there: Do you seriously NEVER play with items or on weird stages? I understand the unpredictability not being desirable when you're playing for money, but haven't you ever sat down and had a 99 stock match with full items on Kraid's level? Sometimes weirdness isn't appropriate, but sometimes it's half the fun of the game, in my opinion.

Even if items are allowed in tournaments they'd just be banned anyway because the explode on contact, kinda like capsules but capsules don't always explode.


And yes I do crazy stuff, just yesterday I play 36 stock [weird number I know] matches, FFA, with all Capt Falcons, pokeballs, bats, motion sensors, and freezies on. I had bomb-ombs, screw attacks and green shells on too but the AI reflected them 100% of the time so it got annoying.

 

[Crizthakidd]

there is NEED in games so epic liek this one to survive and seperate the noobs from the pros and the ugys in the middle. these advances techniques did that for melee jsut like 2x shot and bxR did for halo.

brawl will have some moves that nubs wont be able to do and this will spark the brawl phenomenon. theres a reason melee has survived 7 years....

 

[Spellman]

I would like to clear up one issue that has been bothering me.

Many people (on both sides of the debate) continue to refer to "playing to win" versus "playing for fun" as if playing to win is mutually exclusive of having fun. As a competitive player, I can honestly say that nothing could be farther from the truth. Even though I focus hard on using advanced tactics with winning as my primary goal, I do it because that is the most fun way for me to play. We really need to rename the other side of the argument because this problem works in reverse as well. I cannot think of a single casual smasher who does not play to win. Obviously, the mentality is different in both instances, but everyone wants to win! Winning is the whole point of even trying!

"Casual" versus "competitive" has held up pretty well as descriptions of the players' mentalities, but those should not be derived to be "play4fun" and "play2win". If anything, "fun" needs to be pulled out of this entire discussion. We wouldn't play the game if it weren't fun, so that needs to stop right now.

Gotta agree. Everybody is playing for fun no matter how they play, and for the most part are playing to win.

Although, there is that super secret sect of monks among us who don't play for fun or to win, they just play because they play and say, "so be it" when the match is over.

 

[otter]

This issue is just overdone. I think its because smash is geared more toward younger players. Smash has a few issues, but its actually very balanced. Instead of talking about his over and over, just play mvc2 for a week and you'll have something to cry about.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

I'm gonna start a play2lose clan.

 

[Saor Gael]

It is simply the anti-competitive crowd going out of their way to spite those who are better than them.

Here is the real crux of the problem. Many competitive players believe they are BETTER than other players. Not more skilled. BETTER.

I've met competitive players who were totally cool and just did their own thing. Those people are totally cool, in my book. The problem comes when people start to believe that their skill at this video game makes them superior to those who are not as skilled.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Here is the real crux of the problem. Many competitive players believe they are BETTER than other players. Not more skilled. BETTER.

I have never met a casual smasher who had more technical skill than a competitive smasher. And how is being better different than being more skilled? I can see someone being better than someone who is more technical, but skill = winning. It doesn't matter how you get there. Winning makes you more skillful.

 

[Foe]

I've met competitive players who were totally cool and just did their own thing. Those people are totally cool, in my book. The problem comes when people start to believe that their skill at this video game makes them superior to those who are not as skilled.

There's always going to be those people. The humble, and the not humble. Get over it?

I play soccer at a very high competitive level. One kid on my team got invited to play on a Brazilian soccer team and train to be on a pro team. This kid is the nicest and quietest kid. You would not think of him to be some big star. Then there is some other kid who locally is good, but otherwise isn't that good. He hasn't been recognized by any state-level squads like most of my team. He though, thinks he is the best. He is top 3 on my team, but our bench warmers get more attention.

What I am trying to say: That's life. And the people who are humble have respect for being humble. The people who say they are the best do not and are not liked. Karma goes around.

And the people winning 10,000$ in a smash tourney who say you suck and they are better are most likely are right. Maybe you don't suck, but to what they do, you suck. I used to play casual, and I like competitive better. Before everyone makes claims about competitive players and how they act and how it's not right: Look in the **** mirror. We have all played casual and sometimes still do. Most of you cannot wavedash. Take a walk in our shoes and then start making claims.

 

[The Hypnotist]

there is NEED in games so epic liek this one to survive and seperate the noobs from the pros and the ugys in the middle. these advances techniques did that for melee jsut like 2x shot and bxR did for halo.

brawl will have some moves that nubs wont be able to do and this will spark the brawl phenomenon. theres a reason melee has survived 7 years....

The problem is Melee was technical by mistake. Now Nintendo wants to prevent that, they don't like competitive play.

 

[Foe]

The problem is Melee was technical by mistake. Now Nintendo wants to prevent that, they don't like competitive play.

I call fake.

You cannot prove that. And by the way; WD was kept in by the dev team when it was found, they could have taken it out but they did not. Mistake? I think not.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

If I kill myself on purpose, no one complains that I'm violating the creator's intent. Interesting.

 

[AlphaZealot]

You cannot prove that. And by the way; WD was kept in by the dev team when it was found, they could have taken it out but they did not. Mistake? I think not.

Sadly, this is not actually a true statement. The infamous "land fall special" or whatever in action replay is an encompass all term that also include the likes of landing on a stage after performing an Up-B move.