Points of clarification about Casual Vs. Competitive that everyone needs to read(WOP)

[Deleted member]

Anyways, the football analogy doesnt work w/ smash, due to the nature of smash. Name one casuel that went to a tourney and was increadible and won. Exactly.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Anyways, the football analogy doesnt work w/ smash, due to the nature of smash. Name one casuel that went to a tourney and was increadible and won. Exactly.

But how do you know it's never happened?

 

[RDK]

I'm starting to think that people don't honestly know what the terme "glitch" really means. A lot of the casuals in this thread are throwing it around like it's going out of style.

The practice of exploiting glitches in video games is known as "glitching." For example, in an online game someone may use an error in the map to get an advantage. This is sometimes considered cheating, but sometimes just considered part of the game.

In online multiplayer games, the word "glitch" can be used when there's a combination of keys allowing the player to play better than normal (example in FPS games, a glitch can be a combination of keys to shoot better, to run faster, etc.) and most of the times it is a bug of the game.

It's not really an advantage if everyone has the power to do it themselves. The only thing stopping you from doing it is your idiotic sense of pride and "honor".

To the anti-wavedashing casuals--don't kid yourselves. WD'ing is as much a part of the game as using the short-hop.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

You can continue to play with items on Hyrule thinking that it is the best way to determine which player has the most skill, but you'd be lying to yourself.

I don't mean to be siding with anyone here, but I'd like to say that I think he was saying that it can be just as much fun. It wasn't about determining skill with the different types of matches, it was just to say that he enjoys playing smash in more thanjust a monotonous pattern.

 

[Del Money]

Anyways, the football analogy doesnt work w/ smash, due to the nature of smash. Name one casuel that went to a tourney and was increadible and won. Exactly.

I didn't say anything about winning the entire tourney. Stop being an idiot. I said RESPECTABLY DECENT. Hell, most competitive players are RESPECTABLY DECENT. And only a handful of the competitive players are PROS..... RESPECTABLY DECENT =/= PRO. I never made that claim, so you and Klowne can stop putting words in my mouth in an attempt to make yourselves sound smarter.

 

[The Hypnotist]

While that is a harsh way to put it, by tournament standards casual players do tend to be not so great.

You don't have to sugarcoat it, casual players suck at the game (doesn't mean they are sucky people), and would get OWNED, by a lot of us, like 4 stocked.

 

[BananaNut]

It's not really an advantage if everyone has the power to do it themselves. The only thing stopping you from doing it is your idiotic sense of pride and "honor".

Look, can we at least have one thread with out competitives throwing "idiotic" around and newbies throwing "cheaters" around?

Just check gimpy's thread
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=123097

why can't we be freinds, why can't we be freinds. . .

P.S.Gimpy's thread wins

P.P.S 100th post!!!

 

[flyinfilipino]

You don't have to sugarcoat it, casual players suck at the game (doesn't mean they are sucky people), and would get OWNED, by a lot of us, like 4 stocked.

What the crap? I'm really tired of seeing all these gross generalizations flying around, from both sides.

 

[slikvik]

But how do you know it's never happened?

tournament results sir

 

[RDK]

Look, can we at least have one thread with out competitives throwing "idiotic" around and newbies throwing "cheaters" around?

Just check gimpy's thread
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=123097

why can't we be freinds, why can't we be freinds. . .

(Gimpy's thread wins)

Again, like I stated before--it's usually the more extremist casuals that start this whole thing first. It's almost never the elitists that do, unless we're talking about Dylan Tnga. Once the casuals start *****ing and moaning about advanced techniques being cheap, that's when the ****e starts to hit the fan.

And BTW, I don't doubt Gimpy's good intentions in making that thread, but to be honest, I think he only made that thread to inflate his already throbbing popularity level. Kind of like a lot of things he does.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

why can't we be freinds, why can't we be freinds. . .

(Gimpy's thread wins)

Because with the US population alone at 300 million, and not to mention the total world population of 6 billion, there tends to be some conflicting viewpoints here and there.

Just kinda works like that, ya' know?

 

[The Hypnotist]

I think all casual players should try hosting a tournament.

QFT.

I don't mean to be siding with anyone here, but I'd like to say that I think he was saying that it can be just as much fun. It wasn't about determining skill with the different types of matches, it was just to say that he enjoys playing smash in more thanjust a monotonous pattern.

I didn't say anything about the word fun at all. I'm just saying it's stupid to say (and just illogical) that playing with bombs on hyrule is the best way to determine which player has the most skill.

What the crap? I'm really tired of seeing all these gross generalizations flying around, from both sides.

Sorry, it was a hyperbole, but most casual players do suck. And that's not a bad thing. Most people are bad singers, I'm a bad singer, so what? My friends think I'm really really amazing at Smash but I'd say I'm kinda good.

 

[SolidSonic]

Reading the first couple paragraphs of the OP was about as refreshing as diving into a dumpster. Generalizations flow thicker then blood in this thread.

What a bunch of conceptualized biast garbage, I'm sure the other side of the debate is just a ludicrous though.

I have not been a member here long... So I cannot imagine how many ignorant misconceptions spawned such an absurd debate.

Its like two kids arguing how flat the earth is.

My two pence, even though you didn't ask. /big grin

 

[BananaNut]

Again, like I stated before--it's usually the more extremist casuals that start this whole thing first. It's almost never the elitists that do, unless we're talking about Dylan Tnga. Once the casuals start *****ing and moaning about advanced techniques being cheap, that's when the ****e starts to hit the fan.

And BTW, I don't doubt Gimpy's good intentions in making that thread, but to be honest, I think he only made that thread to inflate his already throbbing popularity level. Kind of like a lot of things he does.

Well, instead of the competitive players reacting to it like armaggedon or something, just turn the other cheek and pretend you didn't read it. No harm, no foul.

At least I think that's better than starting a 38 page flame war. No?

Edit: Like right now, don't read/respond to the post above me, try it. Easy, No?

 

[flyinfilipino]

Sorry, it was a hyperbole, but most casual players do suck. And that's not a bad thing. Most people are bad singers, I'm a bad singer, so what? My friends think I'm really really amazing at Smash but I'd say I'm kinda good.

Oh ok. Treat your words a little more carefully next time.

 

[Deleted member]

I didn't say anything about winning the entire tourney. Stop being an idiot. I said RESPECTABLY DECENT. Hell, most competitive players are RESPECTABLY DECENT. And only a handful of the competitive players are PROS..... RESPECTABLY DECENT =/= PRO. I never made that claim, so you and Klowne can stop putting words in my mouth in an attempt to make yourselves sound smarter.

Ok im sorry, i misunderstood u but u never said respectively decent. Quotes or it didnt happen Fine, give me proof that a casuel player who went to a tourney outdid a relatively good competative player that wasnt messing around. Again, proof or it didnt happen

 

[Del Money]

Again, like I stated before--it's usually the more extremist casuals that start this whole thing first. It's almost never the elitists that do, unless we're talking about Dylan Tnga. Once the casuals start *****ing and moaning about advanced techniques being cheap, that's when the ****e starts to hit the fan.

The funniest part is that even Tnga wouldnt be so ignorant as to claim victory before he even played the match.

I think he only made that thread to inflate his already throbbing popularity level. Kind of like a lot of things he does.

*gasp* WHAT A SHOCKER!!!!!

What the crap? I'm really tired of seeing all these gross generalizations flying around, from both sides.

Really? I think the generalizations are accurate...you know since the all casuals are 100% terrible at smash. And not one competitive player would ever lose to a casual because all casuals are "scrubs".

 

[The Hypnotist]

Reading the first couple paragraphs of the OP was about as refreshing as diving into a dumpster.

What a bunch of conceptualized biast garbage.

There wasn't one lie in the OP, and you didn't even bother to read it. And you probably aren't good at smash just FTR, not like it's a bad thing.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Fine, give me proof that a casuel player who went to a tourney outdid a relatively good competative player that wasnt messing around.

Why is this necessary? You know it's possible.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the generalizations are accurate...you know since the all casuals are 100% terrible at smash. And not one competitive player would ever lose to a casual because all casuals are "scrubs".

 

[Spellman]

Um, if you were a "casual", and you went to a tournament and won, you would be a competitive player. You'd be a competitive player if you entered the tournament in the first place. Not casual. So a casual player can never beat a competitive player at a tournament.

 

[Del Money]

Ok im sorry, i misunderstood u but u never said respectively decent.

two posts ago....

Just because you're an experienced smash player, why do you automatically assume that no one who casually picks up the game, learning the technique, and plays as a hobby could ever be respectably decent at the game?

Quotes or it didnt happen Fine, give me proof that a casuel player who went to a tourney outdid a relatively good competative player that wasnt messing around. Again, proof or it didnt happen

I don't have to give you proof of anything. If you honestly believe that no one who plays smash with the competitive attitude has ever lost to someone that just plays it for fun then your stupidity is all the proof I need.

 

[Deleted member]

Why is this necessary? You know it's possible.

Well of course its possible, it just didnt happen. Its like when ur in court, u cant say its possible that he did this, u need proof. Crap double post. oOO that was cold man. I jsut love messin with u guyz. My stupidity is all of the proof u need to do what? To declare my stupidity, which u cant prove becuz this is teh internetz. MINDGAMED SON!

 

[flyinfilipino]

Um, if you were a "casual", and you went to a tournament and won, you would be a competitive player. You'd be a competitive player if you entered the tournament in the first place. Not casual. So a casual player can never beat a competitive player at a tournament.

But anyone can be a 'scrub', right? Ugh, all the terms are just confusing me now.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

I didn't say anything about the word fun at all. I'm just saying it's stupid to say (and just illogical) that playing with bombs on hyrule is the best way to determine which player has the most skill.

Yeah I know you didn't.

It's just that the logic section of my brain broke for a second when I read Uchiha's text and then your reply, because he didn't say anything about determining skill from the two types of matches, only just having fun.


But I get where you're coming from though so don't worry.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

flyinfilipino, you are demonstrating one of the most annoying traits of casual elitists. They bring with them no evidence to these discussions. They simply use reason to analyze how it is possible to become the world's best player while smashing at home with the same three friends. You are not the only one guilty of this. Many in this discussion have used this "logic" to explain how competitive players really are not much better than casual players, which is an absurd statement given that the very nature of competitive players is to learn the game to a deeper level.

 

[Deleted member]

But anyone can be a 'scrub', right? Ugh, all the terms are just confusing me now.

I know, right? But a scrub could be a disgruntled casuel who decided to become competative because of his loss, but then realized that he wasn't good enough, so became a casuel scrub again...

 

[The Hypnotist]

Yeah I know you didn't.

It's just that the logic section of my brain broke for a second when I read Uchiha's text and then your reply, because he didn't say anything about determining skill from the two types of matches, only just having fun.


But I get where you're coming from though so don't worry.

I understand what your saying but he and other players have earlier.

 

[brawlmaniac]

Well I honestly think it won't matter if wavedashing is eliminated in Brawl. I'm sure there will be other advanced techniques to utilize. Also when you say a lot of people brag about being "masters" of smash, I have to agree. I used to play people who said they "owned" at Smash. Needless to say, I owned them =)

 

[NES n00b]

I am confused with the debate. How is a casual player defined now? Is he a person who does not use advance techs? Does not go to big tournies? Regional tournies? Small tournies? Doesn't attend smashfests with respectable smashers? Doesn't attend whatever tournies he attends frequently? Only plays his friends on tuesdays for two hours? What about people who play on weekends for three hours? Don't even get me started wondering what a competative player is now.

I think some people are having identity problems with which group they fit and have trouble lumping some other people into certain groups, too. We need real, clear cut definitions that doesn't have as much subjective stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

Well I honestly think it won't matter if wavedashing is eliminated in Brawl. I'm sure there will be other advanced techniques to utilize. Also when you say a lot of people brag about being "masters" of smash, I have to agree. I used to play people who said they "owned" at Smash. Needless to say, I owned them =)

Ya but they werent competative players, they just thought they were good. This is a different argument.

 

[Spellman]

But anyone can be a 'scrub', right? Ugh, all the terms are just confusing me now.

I hate terms like "casual" and "scrub" and "noob" anyway, even the majority of people who use them aren't using them in a hostile manor. I just don't like those particular ones, they rub me wrong. I just used it in that sentence because people seem to understand it.

 

[RDK]

I hate terms like "casual" and "scrub" and "noob" anyway, even the majority of people who use them aren't using them in a hostile manor. I just don't like those particular ones, they rub me wrong. I just used it in that sentence because people seem to understand it.

Why do you hate those terms? They're just words used to differentiate between groups of players. They're describing words, just as much as "fat" or "skinny".

 

[flyinfilipino]

flyinfilipino, you are demonstrating one of the most annoying traits of casual elitists. They bring with them no evidence to these discussions. They simply use reason to analyze how it is possible to become the world's best player while smashing at home with the same three friends. You are not the only one guilty of this. Many in this discussion have used this "logic" to explain how competitive players really are not much better than casual players, which is an absurd statement given that the very nature of competitive players is to learn the game to a deeper level.

I'm not saying that a simple casual player can become the best in the world by doing what you said. And I'm not saying that a competitive player is not better than a casual player, there's a very high chance that they are. Sorry if it's annoying you, but my original argument, somewhere before the hundreds of flames on one user and the unnecessarily long debate about the definition of a glitch as it applies to wavedashing, was that being a 'competitive' player does not mean that you will automatically beat a 'casual' player. It all comes down to personal skill level. In a fight between two 'competitive' players, one has to win, and that'll be because of personal skill level. I apologize if I've gotten way off track, but I might have gotten really distracted by all the other posts in this topic.

EDIT: And at NES noob, I agree.

 

[Deleted member]

Yes personal skill level. I jsut so happens that in general, people who have tourney exp. are generally better.

 

[Blubba_Pinecone]

I am confused with the debate. How is a casual player defined now? Is he a person who does not use advance techs? Does not go to big tournies? Regional tournies? Small tournies? Doesn't attend smashfests with respectable smashers? Doesn't attend whatever tournies he attends frequently? Only plays his friends on tuesdays for two hours? What about people who play on weekends for three hours? Don't even get me started wondering what a competative player is now.

I think some people are having identity problems with which group they fit and have trouble lumping some other people into certain groups, too. We need real, clear cut definitions that doesn't have as much subjective stuff.

Gah. Thought stealer. lol. I was thinking this also. Just what are the true definitions? That in itself is probably one key component to this entire debate.


Hypnoboy (yeah, that's right, I changed your name) - Hmm... yep. I suppose it has been said before.


Sidenote - I wouldn't consider myself casual, but hosting my own tournament sounds like fun once we can wifi. Except it wouldn't be for a prize. And would just be for fun and to do your best. So I guess it wouldn't really be as much of a tourny as it would be an online smashfest. =P

 

[Deleted member]

Del money hasnt responded to me yet. Either he has a life, or he cant understand the riddle i set before him.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Yes personal skill level. I jsut so happens that in general, people who have tourney exp. are generally better.

Then yes, we acknowledge that tournament-goers are most likely better.

EDIT: I have a life, but right now that includes studying for a test. Posting on the boards is much more fun!

 

[Del Money]

oOO that was cold man. I jsut love messin with u guyz. My stupidity is all of the proof u need to do what? To declare my stupidity, which u cant prove becuz this is teh internetz. MINDGAMED SON!

Oh yes...woe is me...

@The Hypnotist
I still don't see at all why you're hellbent on the whole items thing. Everyone knows that items introduce the random factor and the random factor doesn't in anyway help decide which opponent is superior in the match. I'm a casual and I remove items every time I play friends. I also eliminate stages whose hazards introduce the advantage, random, or just-plain-unlucky factor. Luck should have nothing to do with which player should win the match. I agree 100% and believe that only 30% of Uchi-whatever-the-****-his/her-user-name-is's arguments held any water at all (especially after the L-canceling blunder). I adopted this play habit long before I even knew about the tournament scene. So to put it mildly, I've alway been a competitive-player in a casual environment. And prefer the casual environment because I'm not gung-ho about Smash. Thus, by your definition, I fall into the casual category. I DARE you to tell me that I fit into any of the generalized bull**** you've been posting about people who "don't play in tourneys and therefore are teh loserarz".

 

[M.K]

Yes personal skill level. I jsut so happens that in general, people who have tourney exp. are generally better.

Yes, generally they ARE better, but there is ALWAYS a chance for someone else to win. Who cares if it's 99/1 odds, that /1 may be all you need. I'm not saying you have the greatest shot at it, but it's there, you just have to work real hard to earn it.

Being a competitive player, or a casual player, does not make you a better person
^Notice I didn't say "better at Smash", because many casuals/competitive players think of themselves as better people, well you aren't, and they aren't better than you. We're equal.