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Masque

Keeper of the Keys
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
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Subcon
My only complaint about 35 characters is that some series simply get robbed. If Ridley isn't in, we have ONE Metroid rep(sorry, but Samus is Samus). Pokemon has NO ONE from the 2nd, 3rd, OR 4th gen if Lucario doesn't make it. It seems like Star Fox will probably get 2 at most, and if Krystal is one of them, we only have one rep from the days when the series didn't suck(Fox, obviously). Does Animal Crossing get anyone? If Ness is in over Claus, we're basically the same stupid looking kid with turds for eyes twice, except that one of them wears a hat. That's the only difference between those two. K. Rool is probably left out, Fire Emblem might only get one, etc. Certainly, not all of these things will happen...but some will. And that's what bothers me. Do we really need Lucas AND Ness? Link and Young Link/WW Link(when we could have Midna)? It's not that 35 is too little, but it is when there are some characters who should really only be in there if Sakurai IS including pretty much everyone, which obviously isn't the case.


Oh well. On the bright side, we'll all stop caring when we get to play the game. In the meantime, though, there are going to be quite a few deserving characters left out. And if Melee added 13, why should Brawl add LESS?:urg:
Very true. I think the fact is that, with a 35-character roster, some series will (undeservedly) get shafted. Metroid not getting another rep (Ridley being the obvious choice) would be nothing short of an abomination. If all StarFox gets is Falco and Wolf, one of them is bound to be a clone-of-sorts, if not just a plain-old clone. With Lucas taking all of Ness's Special Moves (not to mention some of his regular attacks as well, including but not limited to his FSmash, DTilt, and FAir), Ness would require some serious alterations before I would accept his return--and even then, I would infinitely prefer Claus as a second MOTHER representative (as anyone with half a brain should ;)). And I won't even touch on Geno...that's a whole new beast in and of itself.

But the problem does not end there--nay, blood alone does not turn the wheels of history (;)), just as boring (and limited) choices alone do not a roster defile. What really stings is the fact that a good portion of the characters yet to be revealed (at least half, probably more) are veterans. I agree in part with ChronoBound that this news would be quite a bit less disappointing if we had seen the veterans first.

Thirty-five isn't a horrible amount on its own; I could probably live with it if Claus makes the cut. But if Ness replaces Claus, and the rest of the roster is filled in by veterans, save a few spots for Wolf, Lucario, and WW Link, I will be severely disappointed. :ohwell:

Dear god.
I thought someone said Sakurai was listening to the fans. What on earth were the polls for if Ridley, Krystal, and Geno are to be left out?
I have to agree. I mean, he filled in the roster so far with many characters pulled right from the top of the polls...why exclude some of the others that were requested just as much? :confused:

I think a lot of people are concerned about the quality of the roster I provided rather than the quantity. There are no surprises on this roster aside from maybe R.O.B. and Ness returning.
Agreed. I don't need to see Ness again. Falco...meh. YLink does nothing for me, and I could see Lucario as a feasible Mewtwo replacement (just translated to fit). Why are we unlocking VETERANS? It doesn't make much sense, and it doesn't sit very well with me.
 

Hejiru

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
898
Location
Florida
I can't keep track of all these people! Those 35-sayers, what makes them credible and who said what?
 

Saltwater Gem

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
484
Location
Tallinn
My two cents:

I do feel that a 35 character roster is kinda defeating... for a couple reasons. A lot of newcomers were still kept secret (via DOJO!!) when Melee was released, and at this point, to find out that only 4-6 newcomers are left is discouraging. Not to mention that Sakurai puts out these fan polls and doesn't even seem to be listening to the fans (Geno? Krystal? Ridley? etc.) 3 Metroid stages and only one rep? Star Fox gets 3? Combined with the delays, the hype for this game is landing with a damp splat.

Don't get me wrong... the game will probably be great... however... Sakurai could truly give the fans what they want with 35 characters, but he won't... I mean should the obligatory random obscure throwback character really be getting in over the fans most wanted characters because it can provide some novelty value? It's just kind of disappointing.
 

Japanese Monk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
370
I actually would like to see Viewtiful Joe. Thats the only person I want, but I know his chances are next to nil.
 

GinRei

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
120
Location
Maryland
*I dont believe rapscouter either. To tell you the truth at this point, I only believe the dragoon guy. But at least make sure your conclusion to "why he is full of it" is a legitimate argument...
Those weren't my reasons he was full of it, it was just my general reaction to his newest cluster. My reasons why he's full of it were shown when I mapped out how it was impossible to debunk him without having the game, because so much of his stuff were things that Dojo wouldn't just out and say "X and Y are not in the game".
 

sirmackerel

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 6, 2007
Messages
86
Remember, people were fervently hoping for Pit, Metaknight, Diddy Kong, and Wario for Melee and they didn't make the cut back then, while characters like Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Roy did. It's not hard to believe that a lot of fan favorites won't make the cut this time, either.
 

Firestorm88

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
1,249
Location
Vancouver, BC
My two cents:

I do feel that a 35 character roster is kinda defeating... for a couple reasons. A lot of newcomers were still kept secret (via DOJO!!) when Melee was released, and at this point, to find out that only 4-6 newcomers are left is discouraging. Not to mention that Sakurai puts out these fan polls and doesn't even seem to be listening to the fans (Geno? Krystal? Ridley? etc.) 3 Metroid stages and only one rep? Star Fox gets 3? Combined with the delays, the hype for this game is landing with a damp splat.

Don't get me wrong... the game will probably be great... however... Sakurai could truly give the fans what they want with 35 characters, but he won't... I mean should the obligatory random obscure throwback character really be getting in over the fans most wanted characters because it can provide some novelty value? It's just kind of disappointing.
You know, that "poll" was never a poll. It was just people compiling all the published emails on the old Dojo site and counting up how many times characters popped up.

35 balanced characters > 50 unbalanced characters
 

Japanese Monk

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
370
Those weren't my reasons he was full of it, it was just my general reaction to his newest cluster. My reasons why he's full of it were shown when I mapped out how it was impossible to debunk him without having the game, because so much of his stuff were things that Dojo wouldn't just out and say "X and Y are not in the game".
Touché. :p
 

Eternal Neo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 3, 2007
Messages
91
MarkMan, if you can confirm that Falco and Wolf are in the game, could you at least give us some info on whether they're clones or not, and how they play. It doesn't make much sense to me that you'd be allowed to name the characters but not be allowed to talk about how they play.
 

Charzonsos

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 5, 2008
Messages
47
I myself only like Rapscouter out of all the prophets. I could careless about the less, they seem like one person controling multiple accounts making sure he doesn't conflict with himself. I like Rap because he is different. Sure the 3 lies does raise questions, but hey I liked him before the leaker's threads were made. Sure, I know some things he posted has seemed like stuff from other prophets, but he just seems intriguing to me. And he hasn't joined the 35 character band wagon. Plus, he posted Mii (but it could be one of the lies, I hope not). Rap's my favorite, and nothing will changed that (except when his is offically debunked). I really wish we would get the real roster number from the Dojo. Debunk everyone with the wrong number.
 

Zevox

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,513
Location
Michigan
I can't keep track of all these people! Those 35-sayers, what makes them credible and who said what?
The first was NyaseNya, whose info you can find on the front of this page. She was the one who told us of Sonic's update three days in advance, and all the rest of her claims have been steadily coming true since (most notably Olimar having a whip-like move with his Pikmin [Pikmin Chain] and the second delay).

Now we have MarkMan from NeoGaf, a poster considered trustworthy over there and who has apparently leaked info for other games before, affirming this and adding a few tidbits (41 stages, no more 3rd party characters, Sonic tough to unlock, Wolf and Falco in, Ridley out). Another poster from NeoGaf, Reno, also considered trustworthy there, affirms the numbers.

Another individual who apparently leaked info for previous games, PortraitofRuin, claimed the same thing over on GameFAQs, and added that Isaac, Mewtwo, and Takamaru are all not playable, while Toon Link is.

Zevox
 

Saltwater Gem

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
484
Location
Tallinn
You know, that "poll" was never a poll. It was just people compiling all the published emails on the old Dojo site and counting up how many times characters popped up.

35 balanced characters > 50 unbalanced characters
The point was that Sakurai tries to make this game for the fans and it would make sense to include who they want.

And **** balance, this isn't Atmosphere. There's a magic invisible # that will tear the fabric of the gameplay? Isn't it about using your favorite characters and going to war with each other?

PS: So many people have that one freakin Marth avatar!
 

Intercept

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
215
OneStep 87 is obviously fake after that roster. KAWASHIMA IS A REAL PERSON. HE CAN'T BE A CHARACTER. ALSO, IF KAWASHIMA WAS IN, THEN SO WOULD ANDROSS SINCE HE'S A MORE IMPORTANT BIG FLOATING HEAD.
 

Zevox

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,513
Location
Michigan
Wow...if this is true.

Talk about an uproar.
This thread - and God-knows-how-many others across SSB-based forums - is already in an uproar. It'll die down when people resign themselves to the possibility that this may be true. Well, either that, or it'll continue with everybody trying to rationalize why it may not be up until the Japanese release.

Zevox
 

ruffrydr017

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2007
Messages
134
Wolf and Krystal are probably both on the same level. They both appeared in three released games, with Wolf having the advantage of being in the Star Fox 64, probably agreed by all as the best Star Fox game. Krystal could have a staff, is a female, Wolf is more like Fox, might not have the most unique move set. I have trouble believing that one is in while the other is out. They should be able to exist together. Hell, throw Falco in, too. Give Star Fox 4 reps. That way everyone will drop Star Fox, and we can concentrate on other things.

35 sounds a bit low to me, but I think I'm going to settle on that number.
 

Saltwater Gem

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 29, 2007
Messages
484
Location
Tallinn
^
Wolf being a bad guy gives him the edge I think...

A big part of the disappointment is... to find out we pretty much know everything. Yeah, we don't know every little detail about the SSE or who the bosses are, but we pretty much know all the characters, all the moves, etc. whereas when Melee came out, a lot was still kept secret.
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
^
Wolf being a bad guy gives him the edge I think...

A big part of the disappointment is... to find out we pretty much know everything. Yeah, we don't know every little detail about the SSE or who the bosses are, but we pretty much know all the characters, all the moves, etc. whereas when Melee came out, a lot was still kept secret.
What are talking about? All of the characters were leaked 20 days before Melee's Japanese release.
 

AdmantNESS

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
553
Location
TX
PoR's dis confirmations: Ridley, Issac, Krystal, Takamaru, Mewtwo
Her Confirmed characters: WW Link, Wolf, Falco
MarkMan's Confirmed char.: Wolf, Falco
Mm Dis Confirmed: Ridley

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9400848&postcount=591
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=40897112
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9391847&postcount=274
http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=40882151
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9400629&postcount=562

If she and MarkMan is telling the truth, with what other "leakers" have said, these are the 35 characters with Zamus/Shiek counted as part of Samus/Zelda.

Revealed Veterans
Mario
Bowser
Peach
Link
Kirby
Pikachu
Fox
Samus/ZSS
Zelda/Sheik
Yoshi
DK
Ice Climbers

Revealed Newcomers:
Pit
Wario
Ike
Pokemon Trainer
Diddy Kong
Meta Knight
Lucas
King DeDeDe
Pikmin & Olimar
Snake
Sonic

According to the Leakers:
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Captain Falcon(CZ/SXOR)
Ness(According to most of them)

Marth(ShadowXOR)
Ganondorf(CZ)
WW version of Young Link(Nya/PoR)
Falco(PoR/MarkMan/CZ)
Mr. Game & Watch(Icon 13/Nya)

Lucario(According to most of them)
Wolf(Nya/MarkMan/CZ)
R.O.B.(Icon 19?/ShadowXOR)

35 exactly.

Just three more new Newcomers eh.

But Rapscouter says there are not 35 playable characters as a truth and not a lie.
He also says Mewtwo is playable in that "Don't take PoR" lightly thread. PoR responds that Rap's info is false. Rap is offended.
But we don't know if Zamus/Sheik counts for the overall roster when Rap said that. If they do count, that would be 37 characters in total.

This is getting aggravating really quickly.
 

Zevox

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,513
Location
Michigan
^
Wolf being a bad guy gives him the edge I think...

A big part of the disappointment is... to find out we pretty much know everything. Yeah, we don't know every little detail about the SSE or who the bosses are, but we pretty much know all the characters, all the moves, etc. whereas when Melee came out, a lot was still kept secret.
We probably should have seen it coming, to be honest. We had all those months with a newcomer revealed on the Dojo every week or two and veterans being rarely announced, then just stopping after the Ice Climbers - this seems to be simply an inevitable side effect of that. They decided to keep giving us newcomers to get us hyped, and overdid it in the end.

Zevox
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
So when we though that the Dojo wasn't updating characters fast enough... we were wrong... there are very few characters left...
 

pepiux

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
192
Didn't NyaseNya say the game was gonna get delayed ONLY in the US, and not in Japan?
 

AdmantNESS

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 9, 2007
Messages
553
Location
TX
The Japanese Delay was very sudden. No one could have known about that. Especially during the first Whooby event where a Japanese Nintendo rep said that the game was still going to be released in Jan. 24.
 

Zevox

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
1,513
Location
Michigan
Didn't NyaseNya say the game was gonna get delayed ONLY in the US, and not in Japan?
No - she simply said the North American version would be delayed, and nothing else. Nothing at all about Japan. Some people inferred that to mean Japan's wouldn't be delayed, but that was always nothing more than an assumption.

Zevox
 

Demon Kirby

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
2,081
Location
Back from the dead
Metroid is getting only 1 rep.

Fire Emblem is getting only 1 rep (that's what I'm getting).

Mario lost a rep.

Pokemon lost a rep.

Star Fox has three or four reps.

IT ****IN' MAKES SENSE PEOPLE! REALLY!
 

Anonymousity

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
36
Location
Palos Verdes
A big part of the disappointment is... to find out we pretty much know everything. Yeah, we don't know every little detail about the SSE or who the bosses are, but we pretty much know all the characters, all the moves, etc. whereas when Melee came out, a lot was still kept secret.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if we know jack ****. Every time people think they have Sakauri figured out, some unexpected stuff shows up.


Not saying these oh so 'credible' individuals aren't so credible, but perhaps we assume far too much.
 

Shuma

Smash Hero
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,407
Demon Kirby is right, it's not even.. Why do we trust this guys again?
 

GinRei

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
120
Location
Maryland
Metroid is getting only 1 rep.

Fire Emblem is getting only 1 rep (that's what I'm getting).

Mario lost a rep.

Pokemon lost a rep.

Star Fox has three or four reps.

IT ****IN' MAKES SENSE PEOPLE! REALLY!
No it doesn't. Fire Emblem having only one rep is ridiculous. I could see only two again, but not one. From what I keep hearing, Pokemon likely is either having the same number, or one more. If you count Wario as a Mario rep, than it's even there too, but I suppose you could count him as a Wario rep (same franchise imo). I agree with Star Fox and Metroid though (if you wanted you could say ZSS took that to two).
 

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,998
Demon Kirby is right, it's not even.. Why do we trust this guys again?
If Fire Emblem gets only one representative, I am flying to the GDC when Sakurai is making his Brawl post-mortem speech, and in the middle of it, I am going go "FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLCOOOOOOOOOOONNNE PAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUNCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" , and hit him with it a Falcon Punch, which will then make him explode with the force of all the anger of the Fire Emblem fanbase.
 

Demon Kirby

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
2,081
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Back from the dead
That was sarcasm, what I said.

ChronoBound said:
I am going go "FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLCOOOOOOOOOOON NNE PAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUNCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" , and hit him with it a Falcon Punch
What else could come after FALCOOOOOOOOON PUUUNCH?!
 

GinRei

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
120
Location
Maryland
That was sarcasm, what I said.
Yeah, after I posted I figured it might've been, but the board is moving so slowly at the moment I didn't want to take forever to edit (by which time you likely would've pointed it out, as you just did).
 

crazydom

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
3
Demon Kirby is right, it's not even.. Why do we trust this guys again?
And I'm sure you believed Pichu, Dr. Mario and such when you first saw Melee's leak. I'm not saying the guys 100% believable but you can't discount it because it doesn't make sense. Melee's didn't either.
 

Masque

Keeper of the Keys
Joined
Aug 9, 2001
Messages
2,660
Location
Subcon
Metroid is getting only 1 rep.

Fire Emblem is getting only 1 rep (that's what I'm getting).

Mario lost a rep.

Pokemon lost a rep.

Star Fox has three or four reps.

IT ****IN' MAKES SENSE PEOPLE! REALLY!
And Ness probably gets back in instead of Claus. Frankly, NONE of this makes sense. (Especially if Ness is back, while Marth and Roy are left in the dust...I mean, Roy might as well be, but Marth would be a surprise.)

This just seems so illogical. Either Sakurai was smoking opium while he was deciding the final roster, or this guy is full of it. :ohwell:
 

Demon Kirby

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
2,081
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And I'm sure you believed Pichu, Dr. Mario and such when you first saw Melee's leak. I'm not saying the guys 100% believable but you can't discount it because it doesn't make sense. Melee's didn't either.
We're not talking specific characters here, we're talking character number and representation.
 

rusashi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 13, 2007
Messages
105
Or maybe you guys were overhyping the game.

Either way, you guys are still gonna play it, and love it.
 

papagenos

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 15, 2007
Messages
2,494
Location
Massachusetts
Switch FC
SW-0554-8947-9778
it's not so much that it's "not the roster we hoped for" it's just that it's dull and boring.

melee's roster "didn't make sense" because it was strange and with suprising no way characters, i definately suspect brawl to have some as well.
 
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