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Playing your opponent

Rat

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
1,870
Location
Chicago
"If I play someone five times I will beat them." -Vro

At tournaments I have stopped playing friendlies. If I do, I rarely play my main character. This is because of a recent loss. I lost to one of my friends and one of Chicago's up and comers, Vro.

I consider Vro to be a rival. We go back and forth. Yet if we play friendlies, I will win a few games at first and then lose every single game after that.

There was a tournament about 9 months ago where we sat down and played for about an hour straight. During the course of those friendlies he slowly started adapting and picking apart my gameplan. Later when we met in bracket, I lost badly.

I now try to avoid playing friendlies against Vro at tournaments. Since I've been doing this, I've beaten him the last few times.

This habit of not playing friendlies has carried over to pretty much every person at a tournament. I'll play them, but I'll sandbag. Or I will practice one or two very specific things. I just don't want to give away any information.

The problem here is that I think I'm taking a short-sighted view of playing to win. Playing as much as you can and learning as much as you can seems better than hiding your weaknesses. If someone learns punishes my habits maybe a better course is to be less predictable. If my goal is to be the best player I can, I shouldn't let my own ego stop me from leveling up.




Anyways what I wanted to ask you guys was how much value do you place in playing your opponent?

In friendlies, do you show your true strength? Or do you sandbag all day? If you are the best player in the world playing friendlies against the 2nd best, do you play your hardest? Is there a point where hiding your habits is better than learning to less predictable?

During a match how much do you play to beat your opponents habits? How much risk are you willing to take to punish a 'read'? Or do you just try to play the game?
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
I play friendlies witha variety of people at tournaments, never just one. For this exact reason, and because it gets me ready to adapt to several different playstyles.
 

Mooo

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
177
Location
Los Gatos, CA
only playing with my brother for 2-3 months reduced my overall skill/performance more than one year brawl reduces techskill.
it's important to play a variety of people to stay competitive and good.
 

Fly_Amanita

Master of Caribou
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,224
Location
Claremont, CA
You're hurting yourself in the long run if you avoid playing people so that they don't figure you out. Anybody who knows you well enough to exploit your bad habits is somebody who can make you more aware of your bad habits.
 

edgeluca

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 21, 2009
Messages
1,247
Location
Esquimalt, BC
NNID
Edgeluca
3DS FC
2879-0257-1267
Sandbag in friendlies
Try new things
It's not like anything's at stake.
 

DippnDots

Feral Youth
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
2,149
Location
Cbus, Ohio
honestly i've thought about this a lot, rat. We've played a few times in tourneys, with you always winning. On one hand it'll help you beat the people on your level, who know your habits subconsciously but need to be reminded. On another level, it won't help against the people who are just beyond you, in fact, it wont help you even get to their level.

Won't say anything else. Hope I helped.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
4,820
Location
Philadephia, PA
Haha. I used to avoid playing people in friendlies so that I wouldn't learn their style and have it affect our tournament matches in my favor...

Bass ackwards.
 

1048576

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
3,417
For me, playing bad characters in friendlies forced me to learn habits, because I could see when I'd get punished before I even pressed the inputs. I'm still not good at it though so IDK.
 

LLDL

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
7,128
In friendlies you should sandbag and experiment and do things that you don't usually. For the reason that, you might play them later in tournament. It's like giving the annoying ignorant kid the wrong answers to the homework when he asks you for it. In addition, you still learn their play style.
 

Winston

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 13, 2006
Messages
3,562
Location
Seattle, WA (slightly north of U-District)
I play seriously in friendlies for the most part... but I do it with characters other than my main (which is Luigi).

So I guess it amounts to the same thing you're doing. It's a bad habit. I need to change mains soon or get serious about Luigi, haven't decided whicih yet.

I think it's best to play to win against people better than you, because you will learn more by them exploiting your weaknesses when you are actually trying, and play to experiment against people worse than you/the same level.

I played you in R2 pools at Apex btw. I played Vro in R1 pools at Apex also, interestingly enough.
 

Teczer0

Research Assistant
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
16,861
Location
Convex Cone, Positive Orthant
Depends what you want to accomplish imo.

If you want to learn and improve it shouldn't matter whether you may face someone in tourney or not, you're looking to improve. Playing good players teaches you what you may be doing wrong, too often, alternatives, etc.

I usually play my friendlies similar to my tourney matches except I don't concentrate as hard in friendlies and I play more reckless.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
You're hurting yourself in the long run if you avoid playing people so that they don't figure you out. Anybody who knows you well enough to exploit your bad habits is somebody who can make you more aware of your bad habits.
yes, observation and adapting are two of the key things you must learn in smash
 

P.C. Jona

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
3,175
usually i sand bag because its fun

if your pretty good at the game you shouldnt worry about someone learning you

because you should never be that predicatable
 

slartibartfast42

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
1,490
Location
Canton, Ohio
I usually play aggro in friendlies and super defensive and lame in tourney. its dumb
I also do this so hard. People beat/go even with my peach in friendlies then I stomp them in tournament because I start camping the turnips.

That being said, I avoid this problem by almost never playing peach in friendlies. It really helps that my peach has a really gay playstyle that everyone in my crew johns about, so no one complains when I play pika for a straight hour. The problem is, now my pika is getting almost as good as my peach...
 

Rat

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 20, 2005
Messages
1,870
Location
Chicago
I've tried using friendlies to effect someones character choice in tournament before. Like play super serious against a few of their characters, then when they played cf, I played as dumb as I could. (Like DI into combos.)

Didn't really work out though. They still didn't pick cf lol. =/.

edit: I feel like such an *** now that i've said that lol.
 

Little England

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
Messages
3,148
Location
Purdue, W Lafayette IN Rancho Cucamonga, SoCal
You're hurting yourself in the long run if you avoid playing people so that they don't figure you out. Anybody who knows you well enough to exploit your bad habits is somebody who can make you more aware of your bad habits.
This. I take all my friendlies as an opportunity to learn and I always try. It's not fun if I don't try. Sandbagging isn't fun at all. Trying new things is fun in friendlies because that's still playing to learn.
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
I'd like to add. It's not just bad habits. You are probably the type that remembers his comboes but that tends to have a pattern. If it is true that at first you win, and then he always beats you, it may be because he reads your pattern. There are two ways to conter that.

The hard way is to adopt a reactive playstyle in which you react to your opponent's actions. If you are the kind to think quickly and make your comboes second-nature and allow yourself some creativity, you might become tougher.

Another way would be to shift approaches regularily and have a decent range of them. I mean, sure, you'll still have patterns, but they will be much harder to discern.

Don't forget the mindgame element :).
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
I remember how weird it would be to play the same guy twice in a row in pokemon w/o switching teams... just 'cuz you'd randomly get them again.

Interesting stuff lololol

But yeah never play anyone so they won't know your habits

You'll be undefeatable
 

Vigilante

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
1,813
Location
Quebec
Actually, it might be good to play someone who knows your habits. They will find flaws in your playstyle,and then you can use their findings to improve yourself. I guess you could say that the goal of a rival is to better each other through competition.

Seriously, the best way to learn is to lose. Find out why he beat you, and then devise a plan to counter it. By doing this, you will have plenty of new alternatives.
 
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