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Play with Honor , Make Brawl Fun - With Some Thoughts from Mew2King

Barge

Barge

All I want is a custom title
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
7,542
Location
San Diego
What exactly are the guidelines to stalling, would grabbing and re-grabbing the ledge be stalling? I'm confused.
 
Johnny Pteran

Johnny Pteran

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
233
Location
Tri-Cities, Michigan
Apparently, stalling is when you "stall" the match. Like going to Spear Pillar and doing nothing but running away from the opponent in an endless loop. Or MetaKnight's infinite cape.

Planking is where you grab the ledge, drop down, then jump back and grab it again, and basically just wait until the opponent approaches.
 
R

rehab

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 5, 2008
Messages
494
Location
Rockville, MD
No time limit could well result in mega campfests where nobody approaches until they are in an advantageous position to do so, which they never would be due to the massive camp, and tournaments generally do not have time for that.

Like an Olimar ditto.
 
St. Viers

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
FWIW< wasn't using shino stalling perfectly acceptable in melee? That's the unpunishable upB sheik stall, for brawl players out there. Wasn't using Falco/Fox's side B stall allowed?

If anyone makes the "but doing that was harder than planking," I ask you this: is it then acceptable for someone with the technical ability to do it right all the time to use it to always win? Good, that argument gone. If that one doesn't work, question 2: was shino stalling hard? the answer is no.

Now, some things were banned in melee. These were jiggz rising pound stall, and peaches infinite bomber. Both of these were banned because you could use them indefinately, and unpunishably, unless the other person chose the same character. Someone ledgecamping is not invinsible. They are harder to hit, but at the same time, they have lmited options (get up attack, jump, drop and use an attack, drop and regrab, roll onto stage) Even in MK's case, all those options are not able to make him invincible.

Also, just off the top of my head:
G&W's chef/d-tilt
lucas's PKTI
bomb drops from link, toon link, samus.
nikita from snake

I'm pretty sure these force the MK to do something.
 
Johnny Pteran

Johnny Pteran

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
233
Location
Tri-Cities, Michigan
It seems to be that only certain characters fall victim to Planking. Characters with good projectiles like Link/Toon Link, homing missiles from Samus, Snake, and PK Thunder, don't have to suffer.

But characters like Falco do. :/
 
aeghrur

aeghrur

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Minnesota
Falco can stop Planking. Just get a % lead. It's not that hard, to start off, hit him with a laser. Bam, no planking until he hits you back. =/ Lol.

:093:
 
V

viparagon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
851
Location
nashua. nh
aeghrur said:
Falco can stop Planking. Just get a % lead. It's not that hard, to start off, hit him with a laser. Bam, no planking until he hits you back. =/ Lol.

:093:
Click to expand...
are you dumb? the MK or whoever it is planking would only start planking after they take the lead, and then falco doens't do so well.
 
X

XienZo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,287
Lolz, we should ban all non-walk offs. That solves it.

Actually, which one is better, MK ****** everyone or DDD ****** everyone?
 
OverLade

OverLade

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Messages
8,225
Location
Tampa, FL
I think Infinites should be banned unless they're wall infinites (which you have to earn). D3s normal chaingrab should be able to be used normally, but things like IC's chaingrab should have limits. I dont know enough about the character to try and come up with something, but 0-deathing someone with no ability to do anything to fight back is sorta gay.
 
X

XienZo

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,287
RedHalberd said:
I think Infinites should be banned unless they're wall infinites (which you have to earn). D3s normal chaingrab should be able to be used normally, but things like IC's chaingrab should have limits. I dont know enough about the character to try and come up with something, but 0-deathing someone with no ability to do anything to fight back is sorta gay.
Click to expand...
Getting a grab with the ICs is usually harder than backing someone up to a wall...
 
popsofctown

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
There is something you can do about it. I would suggest it more often, but no one would agree to the idea, so it's all null..

A large governing body (let's say not the SBR since they would totally hate this. Let's say the Fun Back Room), goes through and looks at all the settings in brawl and everything they can discretely ban. They can't discretely ban IC infinites, but they can ban ICs. They can't ban planking, but they can set "food" on low (these are just examples, food on low would probably suck in some other ways). They go through and ban all the good characters that make the game boring, like ROB, campachu, etc. They make evaluations as they go though. For instance, is fireball camping a dominant strategy if we take out so-and-so? They do lots of work.

After they take out everyone who's no fun, then they take out everyone who's killing character variety. The smash tier list roughly follows a normal distribution. If anyone knows what a normal distribution is, it looks like someone poured a bucket of sand in the floor. There's a few really good characters at one tip, a few really bad characters at the other tip, but in the middle, most everyone is really close.

The characters from the bad tip will "ban" themselves, they aren't a problem. The remaining characters that are too good should be removed, until the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth best remaining characters look like they are really close.
This all involves lots of voting and democracy.

What you would have left is about 18 characters. About 5 of them would be too bad for tournament play, maybe you'd have 13 left. But you would actually get more character diversity in tournaments, because all 13 of those characters would appear in tournament and win in tournament. They'd each get 1/13 of winnings (almost). And all the characters remaining would be the fun ones. We wouldn't be watching D3 chaingrab us across the stage, we would be watching Ness' fair combo straight into a grab, him downthrowing, but Peach pulling out a Toad to stop his follow up attack.

For stages, the SBR has said that anything that doesn't give an unfair advantage is legit, even if it isn't fun to play. In my solution the fun backroom bans everything that is not fun to play, and that disrupts the competitiveness of the game.


I would name this game Sculpted Smash (plus you insert which title it is, it works for any game in the series). And it would be awesome.
 
P

Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
Anther said:
It's a lot of SK not playing his options correctly, especially in that vid. If he'd been more experienced against it he would've done a lot better.
Someone starting to ledgehog first stock with a 5 percent difference is just getting into their opponent's head >.>. I personally would've tested to see if he would've done it for 3 minutes straight.
Click to expand...
and i would have :p
 
T

Throwback

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
1,249
Location
Green Tooth Gorge
Trying not to flame...seriously that Plank match wasn't exactly one-sided. I know at my level it's beatable, that vid just shows it's beatable at a higher level too. Learn to deal with it.
 
T

Throwback

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
1,249
Location
Green Tooth Gorge
yes but marth shouldn't have trouble against planking...even falco does fine if you go by the sk92/plank vid. plank was much more ahead when he was on the stage than off. Give up already.
 
popsofctown

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
Reposting my response to the OP.. i don't type this much without at least a "u suck tenchar"
popsofctown said:
There is something you can do about it. I would suggest it more often, but no one would agree to the idea, so it's all null..

A large governing body (let's say not the SBR since they would totally hate this. Let's say the Fun Back Room), goes through and looks at all the settings in brawl and everything they can discretely ban. They can't discretely ban IC infinites, but they can ban ICs. They can't ban planking, but they can set "food" on low (these are just examples, food on low would probably suck in some other ways). They go through and ban all the good characters that make the game boring, like ROB, campachu, etc. They make evaluations as they go though. For instance, is fireball camping a dominant strategy if we take out so-and-so? They do lots of work.

After they take out everyone who's no fun, then they take out everyone who's killing character variety. The smash tier list roughly follows a normal distribution. If anyone knows what a normal distribution is, it looks like someone poured a bucket of sand in the floor. There's a few really good characters at one tip, a few really bad characters at the other tip, but in the middle, most everyone is really close.

The characters from the bad tip will "ban" themselves, they aren't a problem. The remaining characters that are too good should be removed, until the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth best remaining characters look like they are really close.
This all involves lots of voting and democracy.

What you would have left is about 18 characters. About 5 of them would be too bad for tournament play, maybe you'd have 13 left. But you would actually get more character diversity in tournaments, because all 13 of those characters would appear in tournament and win in tournament. They'd each get 1/13 of winnings (almost). And all the characters remaining would be the fun ones. We wouldn't be watching D3 chaingrab us across the stage, we would be watching Ness' fair combo straight into a grab, him downthrowing, but Peach pulling out a Toad to stop his follow up attack.

For stages, the SBR has said that anything that doesn't give an unfair advantage is legit, even if it isn't fun to play. In my solution the fun backroom bans everything that is not fun to play, and that disrupts the competitiveness of the game.


I would name this game Sculpted Smash (plus you insert which title it is, it works for any game in the series). And it would be awesome.
Click to expand...
 
V

viparagon

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
851
Location
nashua. nh
popsofctown said:
There is something you can do about it. I would suggest it more often, but no one would agree to the idea, so it's all null..

A large governing body (let's say not the SBR since they would totally hate this. Let's say the Fun Back Room), goes through and looks at all the settings in brawl and everything they can discretely ban. They can't discretely ban IC infinites, but they can ban ICs. They can't ban planking, but they can set "food" on low (these are just examples, food on low would probably suck in some other ways). They go through and ban all the good characters that make the game boring, like ROB, campachu, etc. They make evaluations as they go though. For instance, is fireball camping a dominant strategy if we take out so-and-so? They do lots of work.

After they take out everyone who's no fun, then they take out everyone who's killing character variety. The smash tier list roughly follows a normal distribution. If anyone knows what a normal distribution is, it looks like someone poured a bucket of sand in the floor. There's a few really good characters at one tip, a few really bad characters at the other tip, but in the middle, most everyone is really close.

The characters from the bad tip will "ban" themselves, they aren't a problem. The remaining characters that are too good should be removed, until the first, second, third, fourth, and fifth best remaining characters look like they are really close.
This all involves lots of voting and democracy.

What you would have left is about 18 characters. About 5 of them would be too bad for tournament play, maybe you'd have 13 left. But you would actually get more character diversity in tournaments, because all 13 of those characters would appear in tournament and win in tournament. They'd each get 1/13 of winnings (almost). And all the characters remaining would be the fun ones. We wouldn't be watching D3 chaingrab us across the stage, we would be watching Ness' fair combo straight into a grab, him downthrowing, but Peach pulling out a Toad to stop his follow up attack.

For stages, the SBR has said that anything that doesn't give an unfair advantage is legit, even if it isn't fun to play. In my solution the fun backroom bans everything that is not fun to play, and that disrupts the competitiveness of the game.


I would name this game Sculpted Smash (plus you insert which title it is, it works for any game in the series). And it would be awesome.
Click to expand...

very nice, well thought out post.
I especially like the idea of putting food on low
 
F

Frogsterking

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
319
Location
Ohio Cincinnati-Dayton
Sculpted Smash sounds...really good. I don't think it should replace tournament smash we have now, but it could be an alternate kind of ruleset.

Needs a better name though :ohwell:
 
Jam Stunna

Jam Stunna

Writer of Fortune
BRoomer
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Mr. Rogu said:
the thing is nobodys cool enough to play with honor. pretty much all smash players in USA only play to win, they dont care how they do it, whether its camping, spamming, chaingrabs, infinates, meta knight, overall no one cares about honor, thats pathetic.
Click to expand...
This made me laugh. Just like only ugly people say "It's what's inside that counts", only losers talk about playing with honor. It's just a john disguised in chivalry.
 
B

bob-e

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Messages
308
All these "just don't let him grab the edge" or "don't let him get in the lead" arguments are pretty worthless. If you're going to call that a valid argument, you might as well say that Ganondorf v Metaknight is an easy fight as long as you don't let the Metaknight win.
 
JuanTendo

JuanTendo

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 14, 2008
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63
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Pallet Town
NNID
ssb-juantendo
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2750-1216-1018
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SW 3345 4602 0138
Only one thing left to do...

And that is... absolutely nothing

Every smash player needs to understand by them selfs that playing that way dosen't make you a good player.

i would be happy to win the " SSBB World Championship " ... but if i had won it in that way. i just wouldn't be as happy as i should. Cause deep inside i would know that i didn't really beat all those players. I didn't really show that my skills are better than yours.

i'm not saying i dont agree with CG... we just need to separate the moments when we really NEED to do it (the other player did a random mistake in some random time of the match and we decide to punish him)

and the moments we just do it TO WIN (start the game with your mind already set on doing some infinite or a CG just cause it will make you win... and you will go till the end for one CG)

(you probably think they are both the same. And we can't really make such rules as what i just said before. the only way to stop this crap is just... don't doing it

Playing in such a way just wouldn't fulfill myself... it just wouldn't make victory fell the same.

HONOR IS THE SOUL OF EVERY GAMER... DONT WASTE IT
 
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