Pikachu+

[Stealth Raptor]

yes those work so good omg. pikachu is sooo fast, it was a breath of fresh air

 

[Veril]

I think by QAL, I think he means hitting them one or twice while or before their getup. It seems to work.

Yes, dthrow *****. Dthrow uptilt/dthrow upsmash/dthrow dsmash **** even more.

yeah, you can get in a hit. I like to cancel the subsequent QA into a FH thunderjolt, since its annoying and will hit them after the getup.

Trying to do it consecutively does not work though. Yay combo breakers.

Anyway, Pika has legit CGs on some characters even if they DI. And each throw is 10%... ****. I actually got to test a bunch of different characters CGs with DI today, so I can definitely say Pika's is one of, if not the best CGs. And d-throw sets up for the up-air > f-air or an n-air... or anything really.

Guys, I also thing that it make be possible to combo into a sweet spot thunder. By sweet spot, I mean using the hitbox at the base at the thunder. If we can find ways to combo into this, I think Pikachu is top tier potential forsure.

It is, and Pikachu's definitely top tier. I decided to use Pika as a second, so I've looked into his combos a bunch.

QAC can lead straight into a footstool. I've been thunderjolt > QAC footstool > up-air > n-aired while playing Jiggs.

 

[5ive]

List the chain grabs so I can test them out.

Any one think of combo leading into a base hit thunder? I swear there is huge potential for that.

Edit: Editing the video section right now.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

ill look into it. you know how much i like thunder

 

[5ive]

Anyway, Pika has legit CGs on some characters even if they DI. And each throw is 10%... ****. I actually got to test a bunch of different characters CGs with DI today, so I can definitely say Pika's is one of, if not the best CGs.

I'm still waiting for you to list the CGs, and the characters Pika can CG.

 

[Blank Mauser]

I think by QAL, I think he means hitting them one or twice while or before their getup. It seems to work.

Yeah its pretty much like the footstool QAC lock except instead of locking you only reset them. Even if you miss the QA reset Pika can get to the ground faster and is in a perfect position for a techchase. If you QA too early and hit them before they even hit the ground, you can still try SH Uair, utilt, grab or even Usmash. Since third jump lag is gone, QAL is so much more versatile. I may post a vid later, footstool is probably the toughest part but after that you can at least improvise a few things.

And you don't always have to grab after reset either. You can do another SH Uair into footstool > QA Reset. I'm hoping to find more ways to land the footstool though.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Sorry for the double post, but I got some more pika footage recorded last weekend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDWH6IlY8I0

Mauser Combo^. Heres me demonstrating the QAL Reset.

And some matches:

Blank (Pikachu) vs. Jlo(Squirtle)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD-TDelU1u8

Blank(Pikachu) vs. Tyser(Wario)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgWt9jUWYZQ

Both matches 4.1B official set.

 

[5ive]

****. That looks like it has potential to be an infinite or finish into base thunder.
That's pretty amazing. I'll be editing the OP later on. Studying for exams at the moment.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Ehh, SMK just informs me that you can tech footstools because of the teching code. But they still fall at a slower rate then you can QA, so i'm thinking QAL > SH Uair/Utilt before they touch the ground or something.

Maybe teching footstools will be fixed in later versions but for now gotta find other uses for it.

 

[5ive]

Here's a heads-up. Lucario is discussing Pikachu.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230273&page=9
Let's help them and provide them some input.

Edit: Experimented at with QAReset stuff. Here's what I found.

On some characters, on some percents, you can dthrow to dtilt, without them having a chance to tech (This is only if DI DI incorrectly, but it seems as though we can turn around dtilt if they DI the other way). The hitstun from the dtilt sends them horizontally, where we get a chance to QAR Nair or upair. It worked perfectly on a Fox around 10-20 percent, but percents before and after that are DI able or techable. This could be a mix-up rather than a combo. This is pretty interesting, but at this stage, it doesn't have many applications; it's a start.

Onto edgeguarding. I find that aside from thunder, the most menacing edgeguard is the jolt. Mixing up from jumping jolts to standing jolts off the edge really get to people - atleast the people I've been playing. If I end up hitting them with a jumping jolt with forward momentum, it has enough hitstun to effectively hit them with a nair.

Maybe teching footstools will be fixed in later versions but for now gotta find other uses for it.

I don't think they'll be changing the tech code to stop the development of infinites like this one could be. Nonetheless, this technique could just be a super fancy setup for a QAR nair or uair or something.
For basic combo discussion:

IMO, bread and butter combos start from
dthrow -> utilt -> up air -> chase according to DI
SHFFL uair -> utilt -> uair
You can also use the same setups (dthrow -> utilt / SHFFL uair) into a rising or double jump nair if you want. I usually end up mixing in a nair or two into my long *** combos.
SHFFL fair into anything. Well basically.
Also, if you catch them in the air (at an early to mid percent) with a rising nair, you can follow up with an uair within the same jump. Continue with upairs/utilts for ****

Pretty basic stuff. Will update with more advanced stuff later.

As for combo-ing into a base hit thunder. I don't think it can be done.

For stage discussion:
Stages with platforms are sooooo good for Pikachu. The platforms just help continue the combo and pressure them to tech. I personally think Battle Field or Wario Ware are the best stages for Pikachu. Of course, I would rather stay away from these stages when facing a Marth, ROB, or MK because of the cramped area.

This leads me to another topic.

Toughest character?

I'd say Marth, ROB, or MK. Superior priority, range, power and they can combo you as well. Jolt a lot in these matchups. Needless to say ROB's spot dodge *****, meaning attacking up close may not be the best idea.

More input wanted.

 

[KarateF22]

Stage's with platforms aren't actually that good for Pikachu, as it effectively nullifies your most powerful attack, thunder. I would say Battlefield actually ISNT a good stage for pikachu, i would almost always choose battlefield when fighting pikachu because its so easy to avoid thunder there.

 

[5ive]

The platforms only "nullify" base hit thunder. I stress that base hit thunder is very, VERY situational, and the person needs to be extremely mindgamed or mess up to get hit by it. I also stress that you cannot combo into a base hit. You can only combo into a thunder off the top, meaning platforms aren't really that much of a big deal especially in Brawl+. I don't see why a person would thunder under a platform unless it's for a kill off the top after an usmash. Basehits usually come from edgeguards anyways.

In Brawl+, Pikachu has increased mobility, and I really truly believe we don't have to be worried about being outspaced or basically being cramped and trapped. We have so many options over 80% of the cast, and the combos that continue using the platforms just help us. My only worries are Marth, MK, and ROB. They TRULY out range us.

But unlike in vBrawl, we now trap and corner others, rather than the other way around.

Saying that, I would rather inflict 60% worth of combos than a situational attack that has a low percentage of hitting and a lot of ending lag. Base hits are mostly seen as edgeguards... It's a 5/10 rating in vBrawl, but I now think it is atleast an 8/10 in Brawl+. Like I said, we just have so many improved options.

Here are basically Pros and cons taken from the vPika boards that apply to Pika+:

* The platfroms prevents thunder from being reflected back at you
* Smaller stage means pikachu will have an easier time killing people.
* Pikachu can go under the stage to avoid edgeguarders and ledge pressure.
* The platforms gives Pikachu more options with QAC.
* Pikachu can usmash through the bottom two platforms.

Cons:

* The flat bottom allows pikachu to CG certain characters, however the stage is really small, so the CG won't last long
* Its a smaller stage, so pikachu dies earlier
* Hitting with a sweet spotted thunder becomes very difficult.

Like I said, who goes for a base hit thunder on stage anyways :/?

 

[KarateF22]

not necessarily base hit, but a short hopped retreating thunder. Anyways, the other reason is because my primary character's utilt reaches the above platforms.... hehehe.

 

[5ive]

I don't think that's a good idea. Even without the platforms, you leave yourself open.

 

[KarateF22]

I don't think that's a good idea. Even without the platforms, you leave yourself open.

Nevertheless, anything that removes options from your opponent is a good thing.

 

[5ive]

Albeit situational, I guess you have somewhat of a point. Although I think 60% combos are a good trade for retreating thunders, wouldn't you agree?

 

[KarateF22]

Albeit situational, I guess you have somewhat of a point. Although I think 60% combos are a good trade for retreating thunders, wouldn't you agree?

Your forgetting that that part works both ways.

 

[5ive]

hmm? 60% combos on flat stages? Nope. I guess you don't know what I mean about continuing combos using the platforms. Unless you mean something else. Watch some of my Pika+ vids on BF. I think you'll see what I mean.

EDIT: This will have to do. It's not really the best example though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp71...be.com/user/5iveRP&feature=player_profilepage

1:10 - 1:20 Especially around 1:14-1:15. This is a small example, but without the platform, I wouldn't have been able to continue the combo.

This also pretty much shows me PS2 is a great stage for Pika. A combination of FD and BF. raape.

EDIT X2: 60% may be an understatement.

 

[KarateF22]

Most characters have some trick with platforms. Lucario's trick is that his usmash lasts so long he can hit someone with it that techs on a platform, allowing him to spam its unusally low knock for a smash over and over. If you mistime it, you can then utilt, as utilt is lightning fast.

 

[5ive]

LOLOL. vBrawl Pika boards found out the same thing Mauser found in regards to the SH uair to footstool QAR. The only difference is, this one's an infinite.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=238293

Seems like they were meaning to release it a while ago. They were talking about it in the Pikachu Backroom.

 

[5ive]

To try to stop the discussion from dying, I'm going to have to double post. Captain Falcon ratios anyone?

And here's a recent set that's also open for discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN45c-9TQ3s&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1rDuKOpyZ4&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjnIjjNysEs&fmt=18

 

[5ive]

Bump for revival and tournament update. I just came 5th out of 22 entrees in a Brawl+ side tournament. I managed to do well, even with the gay new down throw.

Expect some amazing matches from the tournament, versus some amazing players.
Edit: Here you go

5ive vs. TO Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CgE79RcDaI&fmt=18
5ive vs. Painted Ghost http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uksqM66y0M&fmt=18
5ive vs. Holy 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdSN8KMSyoQ&fmt=18
5ive vs. Holy 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osXGYbPSk98&fmt=18

 

[PKNintendo]

So it's happening the again. The top tier trio's are reuniting...



Okay maybe not. Ness isn't top tier material, but Kirby and Pikachu are daaaaaaaaamn good. (maybe not top tier)

Happy days and even happier plays.

 

[5ive]

lol CAPS FOR HYPE. UPDATING TODAY IN CELEBRATION FOR ANTHER JOINING THE PLUS.

Also video update with some moar Pika goodness.

 

[iSpiN]

I hope to see some vids of Anther playing Pikachu+. That would surely be entertaining to watch. :o

 

[Mattnumbers]

Where can I see confirmation of this amazing event?

EDIT: oh that happened 7 days ago..........still I guess I missed it while I was gone for a while.

Also, you spelled offense wrong in your guide 5ive, just letting you know.

 

[MK26]

No offence Matt, but you need to LRN2CANADIANSPELLINGS.

 

[Mattnumbers]

Then how come he spelled it "offense" in the description.

 

[Strong Badam]

don't spell in canadian, spell in english.

 

[leafgreen386]

Where can I see confirmation of this amazing event?

EDIT: oh that happened 7 days ago..........still I guess I missed it while I was gone for a while.

Also, you spelled offense wrong in your guide 5ive, just letting you know.

Then how come he spelled it "offense" in the description.

I find it funny that you noticed "offence" but not "defence," both of which are in the same sentence at the start of the guide. Regardless, they're legit spellings of the words "offense" and "defense," respectively, and are in fact the original British spellings. You're just used to the American versions.

And here I expected to see some actual pikachu discussion when I came into this thread.

 

[Mattnumbers]

I actually was aware of defens/ce being spelled that way in Britain/Canada, I don't know why I didn't think the same for Offens/ce that should have been obvious. Anyways in that case stick to one of the spellings.

 

[5ive]

lrn 2 colour, neighbour and jugdement.

 

[E For Eugene]

lrn 2 colour, neighbour and jugdement.

You're annoying.

 

[5ive]

whats distructo

 

[LopTank]

Definitely thinking about picking up Pikachu as a main. Will continue to refer to this topic in hopes of updates for beta 2 and stuff.

Thanks 5ive.

 

[eisley]

lrn 2 colour, neighbour and jugdement.

now that's a straight up misspelling, isn't it either judgment or judgement and not jugdement???

pika discussion, he (she? it?) rocks. lol

 

[syphin38]

hey guys sorry for the newb post but I just started playing B+ yesterday and pikachu is soooo much better in this one.... brawl was so defense oriented while pika is an aggressive character so naturally (being a pika main) I love brawl plus cause it rewards you for offense! anyway so to get to the point.... I'm having trouble jumping out of my qac.... I read in here that is you increase the handicap it does something with buffering or something like that idk.... my q is: what exactly does the handicap do? and are there and cons for having a diff buffer? thanks guys!

EDIT oh! and one more thing. has anyone had trouble with their c-stick? mine fails half the time leaving me just standing there beggin to be punished.... using my control stick + a works all the time... at first I thought it was my controller but I've tried several different ones and it happens with all of them....

 

[Sulfur]

hey guys sorry for the newb post but I just started playing B+ yesterday and pikachu is soooo much better in this one.... brawl was so defense oriented while pika is an aggressive character so naturally (being a pika main) I love brawl plus cause it rewards you for offense! anyway so to get to the point.... I'm having trouble jumping out of my qac.... I read in here that is you increase the handicap it does something with buffering or something like that idk.... my q is: what exactly does the handicap do? and are there and cons for having a diff buffer? thanks guys!

EDIT oh! and one more thing. has anyone had trouble with their c-stick? mine fails half the time leaving me just standing there beggin to be punished.... using my control stick + a works all the time... at first I thought it was my controller but I've tried several different ones and it happens with all of them....

Well, buffer/handicap are synonymous. It raises the amount of frames you have to input an action, while you are completing another.
For example, you double jump and use pika's forward air. If you have your handicap/buffer at 100, then you have the last 10 frames of forward air to input your next command, which will come out right as fair ends.

In brawl, the c-stick only works when it begins from a completely neutral position. I find this very annoying also, but currently there isn't too much to do about it but get used to it.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

Any help with Pika vs Kirby/any other Floaty matchup?
Aerial combos seem useless also, you'll just be baited into a Stone which is pretty much happens a lot.
Due to the Stone your Thunder seems useless when you try to hit Kirby

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Legendary Pikachu reporting:

I'm starting brawl+. I might want to start researching and adding what I find. ^_^. *another pika main joins*....