Pikachu+

[leafgreen386]

I thought it was no longer SDI but now tap DI to get out of Dsmash...

...

You do realize that "tap DI" is the layman's term for "SDI" or "Smash DI," right?

 

[Veril]

...

You do realize that "tap DI" is the layman's term for "SDI" or "Smash DI," right?

irl this would be the awkward silence time...

D-smash is a bit harder to escape with the toned down hitlag. I think the move has improved as a result.

 

[iSpiN]

...

You do realize that "tap DI" is the layman's term for "SDI" or "Smash DI," right?

Funny, here its different, maybe we're doing it wrong. Thanks for the correction.

Have we even started a legitimate matchup discussion yet?

 

[leafgreen386]

Funny, here its different, maybe we're doing it wrong. Thanks for the correction.

Very wrong. There are only two types of DI in brawl: regular DI (holding a direction when you're hit to alter your trajectory, which is read on the last frame of hitlag) and SDI (smashing the control stick in a direction during hitlag to go a little bit in that direction before you go flying). I'm pretty sure they removed ASDI (or Auto Smash DI), which (like regular DI) would be read on the last frame of hitlag and causes your character to go about half the distance of a regular SDI on the same frame they're launched (hence, you rarely notice it melee).

Have we even started a legitimate matchup discussion yet?

No, but we should.

 

[iSpiN]

I guess I'll try to get this going.

Marth, MK, Olimar, Jiggz(maybe disadvantage) all seem to give me the most trouble.

Fox, Sheik, ROB, DK, Snake, Link, and Samus are my easier matchups.

Everyone else is either slight advantage, slight advantage or neutral for me.

 

[5ive]

Yeah, we should start the discussion. I just have to get this guide up this weekend hopefully.
I'm loving Pika. You can basically play him like in vBrawl with no problem.

Let's do this alphabetically. Bowser?

 

[leafgreen386]

Yeah, we should start the discussion. I just have to get this guide up this weekend hopefully.
I'm loving Pika. You can basically play him like in vBrawl with no problem.

Let's do this alphabetically. Bowser?

Pika ***** bowser six ways to sunday. Pika's speed and bowser's easily combo'd self makes it almost unfair. Thundershock spam still seems to be effective at keeping bowser at bay, too. Bowser doesn't like being camped by anyone, and pika seems to do it quite well.

 

[5ive]

QAC seems to out prioritize and out run many of Bowser's attacks. Using QAC to disrupt his moves is one strategy. You can camp Bowser all day, combo Bowser all day, and even edge guard him all day.

I haven't tried this yet, but does spamming a well spaced Neutral A **** Bowser on the edge?

 

[iSpiN]

Yeah, all Pikachu has to do is get on Bowser and he will have a tough time getting him off. Pikachu can maintain a lot of momentum on Bowser. Also, Thunder mindgames (grab > QAC > Thunder) are very effective against Bowser due to obvious reasons. Gimping the big guy with Thunder is quite due to his lack of aerial momentum.

Camping Bowser with Jolts doesn't sound so effective cause Bowser can just jab at the them and then return immediately back to neutral position. Bowser's OoS UpB is extremely deadly and should be treated as such.

All the matchup consists of is getting on Bowser and maintaining the momentum.

 

[pkmn110889]

of all my friends i thought i knew the most about smash bros. but by reading these posts i just realized how much of a freaken noob i am. i mean i don't even understand a majority of these pros sentences. u guys r all beasts.

 

[iSpiN]

Pikachu's Strengths:
- Speed
- QAC
- Juggling
- Better Projectile
- Great Aerial and Tilt Combos
- Size
- Thunder
- Grabs easily lead to other combos and Gimps

Pikachu's Weaknesses:
- Range (Horizontal)
- Weight

Vid of Anther/Ripple from vBrawl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aivrdLTeXM&feature=related

Bowser shouldn't be underestimated.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Both people are better in Brrawl+, and it is completely different. Don't bother bringing a vB vid in here. I'll try to get one up me vs my bro once the next released plussery codeset.

 

[iSpiN]

People told me Pikachu countered Bowser in Brawl too. I'm just showing that as an example. :l

 

[5ive]

I'll get a vid up of Bowser+ and my Pika+ this week hopefully.

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

Pika clearly has the advantage against Bowser. He's faster, has sexier projectile, and has Uair. If the Bowser spaces well enough with Ftilt and Fairs it can get a little tricky for Pika. Oh and if Bowser zones Pika to the middle to avoid that hanus edgeguarding then it can be a little more even. Klaw is your best friend when Pika is open.

 

[5ive]

Matchup ratios? I see this as a big advantage for Pika. I'm thinking 55:45? Maybe even 60:40 <_<

 

[leafgreen386]

Matchup ratios? I see this as a big advantage for Pika. I'm thinking 55:45? Maybe even 60:40 <_<

55:45 is a very close matchup, not really a big advantage. I'd say it's probably 60:40 in pika's favour, if not an even bigger difference than that.

 

[iSpiN]

55:45 is a big matchup? <_>

If I would say anything it would be:

55:45 Pikachu (Neutral)
65:35 Pikachu (Norfair) :D

 

[Arkaether]

55:45? I'd say 60:40, since Bowser isn't much but a giant walking target for Pikachu. He can't do much except spaced tilts, and Pika's QAC goes through that like a warm knife through fake butter. It's over once Bowser goes off-stage.

 

[5ive]

55:45 a bit low i see .
My bad.

 

[iSpiN]

55:45? I'd say 60:40, since Bowser isn't much but a giant walking target for Pikachu. He can't do much except spaced tilts, and Pika's QAC goes through that like a warm knife through fake butter. It's over once Bowser goes off-stage.

...what?

Anyways, thunder edge guarding > Bowser.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I would say 60:40 or 65:35. We still die at insanely low %s, but we shouldn't be getting hit by many kill moves in the first place.

 

[Arkaether]

That's right, fake butter. I can't believe it's not butter! (I put that in there just to check if anybody actually bothered reading my post)

But yeah, Bowser's not getting back on the stage once he's off.

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

65:35 is probably more accurate.

 

[iSpiN]

I think I'm losing the mental battle here, I just can't see how to get in on Bowser all the time with Pika for that matchup to be 65:35, I can do the combos, its just getting that first good hit. Any advice?

 

[5ive]

I think I'm losing the mental battle here, I just can't see how to get in on Bowser all the time with Pika for that matchup to be 65:35, I can do the combos, its just getting that first good hit. Any advice?

I think your just doing it wrong.

QAC in? Spam Jolts until you see him open? There's a bunch of ways.

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

Spam thundershock or QAC until you can get a grab or something.

 

[iSpiN]

Yeah, jolts do help but he can just jab at it :X

But yeah, improving on QAC is probably the most important thing you could do with Boswer. Flying around Bowser just barely out of his reach until he makes a mistake then punish him hard. Once he's off stage then its bye bye King Koopa.

So who's next, Captain Falcon?

 

[5ive]

Ignore post.

 

[5ive]

Updated: Captain Falcon Discussion open.

I will be much more active after exams are over. I just had a bit of spare time today.
I will need much more activity, mainly discussion on the Metagame so I can finish the guide.

Captain Falcon. Priority is still a huge issue. Pikachu can easily capitalize on that. CF's weight also puts him at a loss against Pikachu. Again, Pikachu can combo the hell out of Captain Falcon. His recovery is pretty predictable, so we can edgeguard him pretty well, but we must watch out or Captain Falcon could get a "YEHZ" in there while recovering.

We can also camp Falcon really well. He doesn't really have a counter. All we have to watch out for is his combo ability. We have to make sure to DI properly, and we should be fine.

To play a Captain Falcon, we should find the mid point at being aggressive and extremely campy. Just watch out, if we get too aggressive, the CF may be able to capitalize with a combo.

 

[Good Ol' Tree]

I think you said everything needed to be said about CF match-up xD.

 

[Veril]

Pikachu wrecks Falcon... especially on flat stages.

 

[5ive]

Almost as Cool as Genesis Tournament Friendlies, Toronto Ontario 06/06/09
Brawl+ 4.1b​

5ive (Pikachu) vs. NikoK (Peach)

5ive (Pikachu) vs. NikoK (Marth)

5ive (Pikachu) vs. Gichan (Ivysaur)

5ive (Marth) vs. Gichan (Ice Climbers)

5ive (Pikachu) vs. Gichan (Ice Climbers)

5ive (Pikachu) vs. Holy (ROB) 1

5ive (Pikachu) vs. Holy (ROB) 2



There's more to come.

And come on guys. We need WAY more discussion. I need help with the metagame section :/

 

[Stealth Raptor]

since i am going to start playing B+, im subscribing this so i can keep an eye on it. ill contribute if i ever get good enough at it lol

 

[Blank Mauser]

Hai StealthRaptor. Playing Brawl+? Somebody told me they'd take Brawl+ to event 52 but im not sure that ever happened.

Anyways, I have Pika vids too:

Blank vs. Schism
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWRWad7zWQk

Blank vs. Kudou
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm6sUoXh9E0

I'm still only dabbling with him, but hes a very fun character.

 

[Stealth Raptor]

no it never was lol. KC is starting to dabble in it (at least the brawl people lol. the melee people still call brawl+ brawls ******** child), so we shall see. i highly doubt ill ever leave vbrawl though

 

[Blank Mauser]

So has there been discussion on pika combos yet? I've been finding now that you can QAL into anything that SH Uair has way more uses over Full jump Uair. During a match I had, one combo that stood out in particular to me was QAL in > short hop Uair > footstool > QAL Reset > Grab > Stuff. There are plenty of other ways to set up SH Uair now with momentum too, so this could easily be a pretty elaborate and devestating combo after you follow up the grab. You could maybe even follow up the grab with another SH Uair > Footstool > QAL Reset > Grab on heavies. The only reason you can't get guaranteed QAC locks is because the faster wake-up animation, but no lag on QAL gives you plenty of time for a grab.

As for Falcon, Pika can combo him pretty well, but I think the main thing he has over him is his edgeguarding. Pika's edgeguarding is incredibly versatile while Falcon's recovery is rather predictable. A lot of Falcon's will have to learn to stage tech your attempts, so just be ready for those.

Another funny thing I've found as I play more Falcons is that his approaches can go right over Pika. Crawl and then punish with Uairs, his priority leaves a lot of blindspots for Pika's aerials to capitalize on, and Pika's Uair especially sets up for quite a lot. After he catches on, Falcon will probably throw more Dairs. Falcon will probably throw these around anyways as its his best chance for a knee. Pika's Dsmash can punish these attempts pretty well if timed right. Overall, Falcon will probably have a tough time hitting Pika and this isn't even taking into account Pika's projectile and decent keepaway game.

I'd say this matchup is in great favor of Pika.

 

[5ive]

Very good post. As for combo discussions, I'd say we need as much discussion as possible. That's an interesting idea with the footstools and QAL. Question: How long to the QALs last for? I've had some interesting stuff happen with QAL, but I haven't thought of adding an SH up air to continue the combo.

I'd say most of Pikachu's combos stem from SH upairs, to SH fairs. One of the only downsides to these combo starters is that you are really vulnerable to shield grabs (especially with a fair). This ALWAYS got me in vBrawl, but I should put it out there that you should always try and doing a crossup attack, especially with a SH fair.

Also, try doing a SH uair / SH fair to up tilt to rising nair. After this, they usually end up DIing, but I always follow their DI for an extra u air during the same jump. This usually leads into more Up air or uptilts.

Also downtilt. Use it. I loved SH fairing into a Dtilt grab in vBrawl. It ***** harder in Brawl+. Especially when they trip. Automatic combo.

Guys, I also think that it might be possible to combo into a sweet spot thunder. By sweet spot, I mean using the hitbox at the base at the thunder. If we can find ways to combo into this, I think Pikachu is top tier potential for sure.

If you guys check the videos I put up from a recent tournament I've went to, you can check some combo action.

 

[Veril]

Very good post. As for combo discussions, I'd say we need as much discussion as possible. That's an interesting idea with the footstools and QAL. Question: How long to the QALs last for? I've had some interesting stuff happen with QAL, but I haven't thought of adding an SH up air to continue the combo.

wait for it...

 

[5ive]

I think by QAL, I think he means hitting them one or twice while or before their getup. It seems to work.

Yes, dthrow *****. Dthrow uptilt/dthrow upsmash/dthrow dsmash **** even more.