Phantom Knight will protect her from now on ^^

[Katy Parry]

We also heard how Link's down-air change was considered. Not made; considered. If there would be such a drastic change, we would had heard about it.

This is pretty much case and point. Sakurai realizes the fans are familiar with Veterans. He lets everyone know changes he's making/considering uphand.

And, before you even try to argue it, we know some changes have been explained for the starting characters after the Nintendo Direct reveal of the game. The reason this takes place is because he wasn't able to reveal all of the starters (for the site) individually. So its understandable he would show changes to characters like Link and Pit a couple months after. But everytime a new character (not newcomer) is added to the site, he then spends the next couple of days talking about that character's most important changes.

As Heretic stated, changes that are considered are shown off and mentioned, as in, stated.

Show me ANY other example otherwise for a veteran, and I'll shut my mouth.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, the most drastic changes that were made are actually Pit specials. And they were shown and explained quite quickly. Bowser simply got a changes about his animations to more Bowser-ish. You can tell from the develloper's direct that bowser players will easily be familiar with the "new" moves.

Also, Peach up-smash. The picture says it all: it's the up smash, but with a ribbon to attack on the sides now. It's not a major change, but a tweak, like Bowser.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It can still all be explained in future updates. Lucario being back says nothing about Sheik at all. If anything, Pokémon Trainer is in a tighter spot now. And like Sheik, Pokémon Trainer is a character with duo mechanics. Jigglypuff was low priority in Brawl to, so not sure about her this time, at least not 100%. And if she could be cut, Sheik would be easier.

Sure, changes gend to be mentioned. But we still don't even know how many Pikmin Olimar can have for example. Many things are left to be revealed about the excisting confirmed cast. Not even most veteran's whole special moveset has been revealed either for example. Brawl had Special Moves for character updates, and Sheik was revealed when Zelda's Special Moves update happened.

Phantom could be explained whenever they want. It's likely they'll still do silly updates about Rosalina's other specials, or something random as Link's Side B, DK's Side B, other Special Moves for Zelda and Dedede. Marth's Counter / Dancing Blade...

Doubt Sakurai would be balantly stating Sheik would be gone if she did though. He never made any mention to the cuts of Melee characters specifically at the Brawl Dojo. Why should he do now? Am thinking he'd want to reveal Impa shortly after, so Impa could very well be the next newcomer to be shown.

Anyway, I still think it can go either way. Even if Sheik's in, Impa still has a chance. Rosalina was always considered less important than other Mario characters, and too similar to Peach yet she made it in fully unique. Impa and Sheik could still co-excist like they do. Similary to Kirby and Jigglypuff for example.

Am still optimistic about Impa's chances.

 

[Katy Parry]

It can still all be explained in future updates. Lucario being back says nothing about Sheik at all. If anything, Pokémon Trainer is in a tighter spot now. And like Sheik, Pokémon Trainer is a character with duo mechanics. Jigglypuff was low priority in Brawl to, so not sure about her this time, at least not 100%. And if she could be cut, Sheik would be easier.

Sure, changes gend to be mentioned. But we still don't even know how many Pikmin Olimar can have for example. Many things are left to be revealed about the excisting confirmed cast. Not even most veteran's whole special moveset has been revealed either for example. Brawl had Special Moves for character updates, and Sheik was revealed when Zelda's Special Moves update happened.

Phantom could be explained whenever they want. It's likely they'll still do silly updates about Rosalina's other specials, or something random as Link's Side B, DK's Side B, other Special Moves for Zelda and Dedede. Marth's Counter / Dancing Blade...

Doubt Sakurai would be balantly stating Sheik would be gone if she did though. He never made any mention to the cuts of Melee characters specifically at the Brawl Dojo. Why should he do now? Am thinking he'd want to reveal Impa shortly after, so Impa could very well be the next newcomer to be shown.

Anyway, I still think it can go either way. Even if Sheik's in, Impa still has a chance. Rosalina was always considered less important than other Mario characters, and too similar to Peach yet she made it in fully unique. Impa and Sheik could still co-excist like they do. Similary to Kirby and Jigglypuff for example.

Am still optimistic about Impa's chances.

Once again.

You are taking what we've stated and replying to something entirely different. You're missing the point entirely.

We're talking about any DRASTIC or completely NEW changes. Those are always referenced as soon as the character is revealed, if not days after.

Marth's reveal had his Shield Breaker changes shown off in the first week. Dedede's Fsmash was the same week for him.

Same with Lucario. His Aura changes were stated on his character reveal image.

Rosalina is a newcomer. She won't have any "DRASTIC or completely NEW changes" to update about. It's irrelevant whether or not any of her specials are revealed at anytime.

And there's still the fact, Zelda's case is special because in Smash bros they're one character. You know? It wouldn't make sense for him to change something so drastic and not tell anyone up front. As Heretic stated, If there was a drastic change to Zelda, he would have already addressed it. Zelda and Sheik cannot exist without the other in the Smash Brothers games. At this point, it wouldn't make any sense.

Furthermore, it wouldn't make sense for Sakurai to post a new move for a character without it being addressed. As Heretic stated, when Link's Dair was being overhauled, they updated about it and said the changes were just being considered.

So Diddy, by your logic, if Zelda's down B was changed and was to be shown off in the future, it would NOT be shown on her character page FIRST.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

It can still all be explained in future updates. Lucario being back says nothing about Sheik at all. If anything, Pokémon Trainer is in a tighter spot now. And like Sheik, Pokémon Trainer is a character with duo mechanics. Jigglypuff was low priority in Brawl to, so not sure about her this time, at least not 100%. And if she could be cut, Sheik would be easier.

About the Pokémon Trainer: Yeah of course. Let's remove the only real playable character of the Pokémon games.

Sure, changes gend to be mentioned. But we still don't even know how many Pikmin Olimar can have for example. Many things are left to be revealed about the excisting confirmed cast. Not even most veteran's whole special moveset has been revealed either for example. Brawl had Special Moves for character updates, and Sheik was revealed when Zelda's Special Moves update happened.

"Brawl had", as you say. This is not Brawl's Dojo. Pit's changes, the only known real change (not properties only, for example), were shown during the develloppers direct, and in June and July for the daily pics. An additionnal information about the Upperdash Arm invincibility frame was shown in september. Maybe it was considerer during that time?

Phantom could be explained whenever they want. It's likely they'll still do silly updates about Rosalina's other specials, or something random as Link's Side B, DK's Side B, other Special Moves for Zelda and Dedede. Marth's Counter / Dancing Blade...

Rosalina = Newcommer, so it's obvious they will show what she is able to. It reminds me that in one of the offscreen gameplay video, with the Megaman VS Mario battle, there also some Wii Fit Trainer informations, and we can see she lack an animation of turning back, around 2 minutes. She simply slide, while standing still. I know she have a good balance, but still http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iktxi6tPBPw Also, the website, her video, the devellopper's direct AND this offscreen gameplay lacks two things: 2 special attacks. Althought one of her, the down special probably, was shown in the daily pics, but the effect is unknown. And still, it comes from a time where the Sakurai's comments contained less informations.

It's likely that when something is finished, it's shown. Of course, you can't show everything. Between stages, items, Assist trophies, Pokémons, characters, their animations, their attacks, yet doing sometimes some pictures only for entertainement, you can't show EVERYTHING at once.
Now, the phantom clearly exist in the game. Why such a change in Zelda's moveset would be left unexplained, yet show something as trivial as the graphical change about her side-tilt?

Doubt Sakurai would be balantly stating Sheik would be gone if she did though. He never made any mention to the cuts of Melee characters specifically at the Brawl Dojo. Why should he do now? Am thinking he'd want to reveal Impa shortly after, so Impa could very well be the next newcomer to be shown.

I doubt it, considering Sakurai seems to seperate the art style in two: realistic and Toon, with Alfonzo replacing the SP Toon Link when WW Toon Link is on the stage. By this, he seems to keep characters coherents: what belong to the Toon art style belong to the toon Art style, what belong to the Realistic TP style belong to the Realistic TP style.
Of course, this is personnal assumptions, and the SS characters proportions are enough realistic. But the game itself have something a lot of people tend to not realise: it's in pointillism style. I really liked that graphical effect, that gave the game a painting feeling. And hide some graphical flaws, at the same time

In all honesty, I wouldn't had been opposed to Impa if we had the Skyward Sword Zelda (and the Ocarina of Time Ganondorf, to represent more Zelda games), but now that we have two Twilight Princess characters, Sheik, even if only being a concept art in this game, is a better choice.

Anyway, I still think it can go either way. Even if Sheik's in, Impa still has a chance. Rosalina was always considered less important than other Mario characters, and too similar to Peach yet she made it in fully unique. Impa and Sheik could still co-excist like they do. Similary to Kirby and Jigglypuff for example.

Well, the differencies between Peach/Rosalina and Kirby/Jigglypuff are way more important: Of course, Peach and Rosalina share the same art style, but their role are different: Peach is the Princess of the Mushroom Kingdom, and the Damsel in distress, Rosalina is the adoptive mother of the Lumas, and protect the cosmos. Kirby and Jigglypuff don't even come from the same game.
Now, Sheik and Impa. They both are Sheikah. For sure, we had Marth and Ike, two blue-haired lords with swords, and they play differently. But it's somewhat the same debate than the Chrom one: Fire Emblem has better to offer than another blue haired lord. The difference is that Chrom is the hero of his game (along Daraen).

Same goes with Impa, if Sheik is in: the Zelda serie have better to offer than another Sheikah. And as you stated, Rosalina is considered less important, so it open the gates for other less important Zelda characters.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I'm still on the fence about this since why would they give zelda that? but it looks to have been redesigned to look like TP which would be fine if toon link wasn't playable

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Oh, look, an update on how Lucario's neutral-B changed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

What exactly is different about it? Zelda's Specials can still be revealed later.

 

[Katy Parry]

What exactly is different about it? Zelda's Specials can still be revealed later.

We're not ruling that out, but its highly unlikely due to the examples we've provided.

As even evidenced by today, since Lucario is a veteran, his most changes have been shown. Don't you see the pattern that's clearly apparent with EVERY veteran reveal?

What's different? We're not here to argue Lucario, but the power and visual changes are being shown off. The sphere has a MUCH bigger hotbox at full charge and its most likely more powerful.

But this thread is about Zelda.

For you to deny a completely obvious pattern is horrendous for your opinions and arguments. They're getting weaker and weaker.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

First day after Lucario's reveal? Let's show how big his aura sphere is big now! Something that goes along the fact we already said that aura will have a bigger impact on Lucario!

First Day after Zelda's reveal (and holidays pause)? Look, a Saria trophy. Second day? Look, the graphics of zelda's tilt is upgraded... Like the whole game.

 

[Erimir]

I don't know if anybody pointed this out, but the Phantom only looks more realistic at a superficial level. Literally, only the surfaces have significant changes. Removing cel-shading and adding some embellishments on the details (since, you know, this is in HD now) is not the difference between Toon LoZ style and TP style.

Look at Darknuts in Wind Waker vs. Darknuts in Twilight Princess:

VS

The Twilight Princess version does not merely have different textures and more detail (leaving aside the animal-like design of the WW Darknuts). It has totally different proportions. The legs and torso are normal proportions.

The Phantom still has Toon LoZ proportions, with a huge torso and comparatively small legs.

Compared with

If they changed Sheik over to TP style for Brawl, why would they give TP-style Zelda the Phantom as a move (despite her only using Phantoms while possessing them, and, you know, it being a different Zelda), clearly spend the time to upgrade it to Wii U graphics, but leave it in Toon style?

That said, I don't think the fact that Sakurai hasn't told us anything about the Phantom yet suggests much - if he really has removed Sheik, he won't want to reveal that right away. If the Phantom is merely an AT, on the other hand, I expect it will be explained long before Sheik or Impa or whatever is revealed.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Uhm of course it resembles the Spirit Track Phantoms the most Why would she pull out a Dark Nut out of nowhere?

 

[Erimir]

Uhm of course it resembles the Spirit Track Phantoms the most Why would she pull out a Dark Nut out of nowhere?

Reread what I said, and explain how I said that she should do that. The point is that a Phantom done in TP style would probably more closely resemble the TP Darknuts than WW Darknuts. But... it has similar proportions to WW Darknuts.

I was demonstrating the difference between TP style and Toon LoZ style. Toon Link is not cel-shaded, and he has texture on his clothes and extra details on his sword and so forth. The fact that the textures are more detailed on the Phantom does not show that it has been made to match Zelda's TP style.

I was pointing out that the small legs and gigantic torso make it more consistent with Toon LoZ style. The fact that they converted Sheik to TP style in Brawl suggests that they would do the same with a Phantom if it was going to be part of her moveset... but they didn't.

And don't get so happy-happy about it. Even if Sheik is cut, Impa is still most likely not going to be in the game.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Uhm of course it resembles the Spirit Track Phantoms the most Why would she pull out a Dark Nut out of nowhere?

And why would she pull out a Phantom out of nowhere?

Reread what I said, and explain how I said that she should do that. The point is that a Phantom done in TP style would probably more closely resemble the TP Darknuts than WW Darknuts. But... it has similar proportions to WW Darknuts.

I was demonstrating the difference between TP style and Toon LoZ style. Toon Link is not cel-shaded, and he has texture on his clothes and extra details on his sword and so forth. The fact that the textures are more detailed on the Phantom does not show that it has been made to match Zelda's TP style.

I was pointing out that the small legs and gigantic torso make it more consistent with Toon LoZ style. The fact that they converted Sheik to TP style in Brawl suggests that they would do the same with a Phantom if it was going to be part of her moveset... but they didn't.

And don't get so happy-happy about it. Even if Sheik is cut, Impa is still most likely not going to be in the game.

Also, the thing that bothers me (not sure if we already said that here), it's not only the fact it kept it's toonish artstyle, but the fact the phantom comes from another timeline than the TP Zelda. I mean, HOW TP Zelda could have heard of new hyrule? At least, the OoT Zelda's legend is shared by every timeline.



And again, more focus on Lucario changes about the aura.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

But the phantom is exactly the same height as Zelda, and the phantoms legs are long too. If it were a trophy I don't think they would have scaled it to Zelda's proportions. And.....of course its gonna look like the suit in spirit tracks, because it is. Why the heck would they make her look like a darknut, she wouldn't even be recognizable. Not to mention that Phantoms have never appeared in a non cel shaded Zelda game. And, Remember the only reason they added Shiek to brawl was because of some concept art left over from twilight princess.

^^^This isn't Twilight Princess Zelda, Last I checked Twilight Princess Zelda didn't use Links OoT magic spells, nor do I remember Twilight Princess Zelda ever turning into Sheik. Plus, cutting out two whole timelines to make her 'THE' twilight princess Zelda is ridiculous. She could only borrow powers from the following games:

- 4 Swords- That Zelda had NO powers
- Twilight Princess- Has archery (as do most other Zeldas)
-OoT- Shiek-light beams
-Minish Cap- Zelda was a rock for the whole game ( NO powers)
- Skyward Sword- Doesn't have any powers (Impa does all the work)

And you would be ignoring all these:
-Link to the past
-Oracle of ages/ seasons
-The Legend of Zelda
-Adventure of Link
-The Wind Waker
-Phantom Hourglass
-Spirit Tracks

Which would be incredibly stupid, lets just cut out more than half of all the Zelda games for sake of making her resemble one incarnation of Zelda.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

The phantom is clearly taller than Zelda.
And it seems to scale well with Toon Link.

Spoiler

The fact is, it looks like Sakurai separate "Adult" and "Toon". Link didn't had a friend fairy in Twilight Princess either. But he still pull out a Navi-like fairy as a taunt. And Alfonzo replace the ST Toon link when the Wind Waker Toon Link is on the train, despite being two different Link.

Now, Zelda. Again, speaking of logic, OoT is part of every timeline, so it's plausible TP Zelda heard about the tale of how the OoT Zelda escaped Ganondorf for so many years.
Sure, she doesn't do it in TP. But does it mean she isn't able to tranform herself?

Also, since when Ganondorf grab people, hug them and make them explode with electricity? Not everything needs to be canon. This also applies to Ness and Lucas, or Mario who uses fireball without the fire costume.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

^^^^Yes, look at that phantoms stubby little legs, then look at at the screen shot, clearly the phantoms legs are longer in the smash bros photo.
In Twilight Princess the wii cursor is a fairy, just like the taunt.

Now I don't have time to speculate about sheer nonsense, such as how TP Zelda heard about the events of OoT which has never been stated, and there is no proof of this to back your claim. And hearing about OoT is no indicator of why she would have the spells anyways.

Of course it means she can't transform! That ability was exclusive to OoT Zelda, Does this mean that the Zelda from Wind Waker has the ability to transform into Sheik? Of course not!

You say not everything needs to be canon, and it doesn't. Which was exactly my point. Funny, how you say this now after explicitly stating that you don't like the Phantom because its not from the same timeline as Twilight Princess Zelda. Seriously?

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'm not saying it IS canon, I'm just explaining we can find a logic. Of course it's not canon. Do we care? Way too much.

The fact is, she is Smash Zelda. With TP look.

Smash Zelda use OoT spells in a unseen manner in the game. TP Zelda have brown hair. And voila! Smash 4 Zelda.


Edit: Forgot to say something. I'm saying that things don't have to be canon. But that according to how Brawl is, and how Smash 4 seems to be, the realistic artstyle and the Toon artstyle clearly are seperated. Hence why it's stupid to put a Toony phantom on Adult Zelda.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

"it's not only the fact it kept it's toonish artstyle, but the fact the phantom comes from another timeline than the TP Zelda"

And the Phantom is clearly NOT in toon style.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

And heres the "Taunt Fairy" in Twilight Princess

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, it bothers ME.
People want Toon Zelda, and we will put her abilities on the adult. Great. Where is the logic in that? Will Mario pull a Paper Mario hammer out of nowhere? Will Pit take out a 8bit bow?
That what I mean. It comes from another timeline, something clearly separated in Brawl/SSB4. It's not that I care Zelda's TP uses only TP things, it's that I care Adult Zelda uses only Adult Zelda's thing... Or should I say Smash Zelda things.

And that fairy is just a cursor. Not a big deal. Could be epona's face (and YES I'm obviously using a stupid example. This fairy is just a cursor, not Link's Friend)

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Because there will be no toon Zelda. That's why.
And you're over exaggerating, it's not that big a deal whether or not they mix the toon with "Adult"(Lol)
Plus they retextured it to make it look Twilight Princess Style anyways.
The fairy is just a taunt, who cares. But clearly the fairy is the cursor from Twilight Princess.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, do you have sources to say it has been retextured to look like Twilight Princess? Gah, I hate this, especially it's said "IT IS".

All I see is a ST phantom, with upgraded look. Like Toon Link. Can't say is made to look like TP.



And I'm not exaggerating. Everything from "realistic" styles is separated from "toon" styles, so far. Why suddenly mix that? Would you give Link a Deku leaf for example?

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

^No, but I have a pair of eyes.
But the difference is that Link and Toon Link have different Weapons, whilst Zelda is the same constantly. So while it would be nice to have a toon Zelda it really isn't realistic because theres not much separating the two variations.
Zelda is magic(ish) and an archer, nothing really changes.
Links weapons are always changing

If Sakurai was thinking straight he would have just went with the Skyward Sword designs than this whole toon vs "Adult" thing could've been avoided all together, and we could have gotten a better rep than toon link.

 

[Erimir]

But the phantom is exactly the same height as Zelda, and the phantoms legs are long too. If it were a trophy I don't think they would have scaled it to Zelda's proportions. And.....of course its gonna look like the suit in spirit tracks, because it is. Why the heck would they make her look like a darknut, she wouldn't even be recognizable.

Her? Phantom's ain't got no gender, and Zelda is not a ghost inside that armor.

Anyway, I didn't say they should make it look exactly like a Darknut. I said they would change its appearance to look like it could've come from a game like TP/OoT. The armor designs and coloration and such could've stayed mostly the same, but they could've changed it to have more realistic proportions. They did not.

^^^This isn't Twilight Princess Zelda, Last I checked Twilight Princess Zelda didn't use Links OoT magic spells, nor do I remember Twilight Princess Zelda ever turning into Sheik. Plus, cutting out two whole timelines to make her 'THE' twilight princess Zelda is ridiculous. She could only borrow powers from the following games:
[blah blah blah]

What's your point? I never said she could only use powers used by Twilight Princess Zelda. I am remarking only on the consistency of the art style. She is not about to look like Twilight Princess but, say, have her Din's Fire explosions look like Toon Link's Bombs'. Despite the fact that Sheik was only in OoT and not in TP, they made Sheik match the TP style.

I'm just saying that the Phantom's appearance is more consistent with the Toon LoZ universe than it is with Zelda's design in this game.

Plus they retextured it to make it look Twilight Princess Style anyways.

By that logic, Toon Link is Twilight Princess style

They retextured it because Smash is just not going to support cel-shading graphics for one character (I mean, really, if they wanted it to look the best, Toon Link would just be cel-shaded), and therefore they want to add some textures to make it look better in HD than simply being an untextured piece of crap. Hence they added textures and details to Toon Link. His sword looks metallic, his shield's back looks wooden, his clothes look like cloth. They even gave his hair some texture in the 3DS model.

So... They added textures to the Phantom to make its armor look like real metal, and some additional details. That's not the same thing as Twilight Princess style, or even a more vibrant (colorful) TP style. TP style is not just the absence of cel-shading and the presence of textures and finer details.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Her? Phantom's ain't got no gender, and Zelda is not a ghost inside that armor.

Anyway, I didn't say they should make it look exactly like a Darknut. I said they would change its appearance to look like it could've come from a game like TP/OoT. The armor designs and coloration and such could've stayed mostly the same, but they could've changed it to have more realistic proportions. They did not.
What's your point? I never said she could only use powers used by Twilight Princess Zelda. I am remarking only on the consistency of the art style. She is not about to look like Twilight Princess but, say, have her Din's Fire explosions look like Toon Link's Bombs'. Despite the fact that Sheik was only in OoT and not in TP, they made Sheik match the TP style.

I'm just saying that the Phantom's appearance is more consistent with the Toon LoZ universe than it is with Zelda's design in this game.
By that logic, Toon Link is Twilight Princess style

They retextured it because Smash is just not going to support cel-shading graphics for one character (I mean, really, if they wanted it to look the best, Toon Link would just be cel-shaded), and therefore they want to add some textures to make it look better in HD than simply being an untextured piece of crap. Hence they added textures and details to Toon Link. His sword looks metallic, his shield's back looks wooden, his clothes look like cloth. They even gave his hair some texture in the 3DS model.

So... They added textures to the Phantom to make its armor look like real metal, and some additional details. That's not the same thing as Twilight Princess style, or even a more vibrant (colorful) TP style. TP style is not just the absence of cel-shading and the presence of textures and finer details.

Clearly you need to reread this page of the thread, because I was replying to Erotic&Heretic, Not you.

And honestly they resized the Phantom to be proportionate to Zelda, and completely redesigning the Phantom would be ridiculous. That would make Phantom Zelda unrecognizable; and lets not forget that the only reason sheik appeared in brawl in the first place was because of left over twilight princess concept art. Sakurai doesn't create his character designs from scratch.

LOL its Phantom Zelda (Which makes it a 'She' BTW)

 

[Erimir]

And honestly they resized the Phantom to be proportionate to Zelda, and completely redesigning the Phantom would be ridiculous.

Good thing I didn't say they should completely redesign it.

That would make Phantom Zelda unrecognizable; [...] LOL its Phantom Zelda (Which makes it a 'She' BTW)

You don't see glowing eyes, do you? Zelda is not inside the Phantom, hence it is not Phantom Zelda. There are not two Zeldas in this picture even if that Phantom is part of her moveset. Next thing you'll be saying that the Luma is Rosalina because it's controlled by her

And yes, it would still be recognizable if they gave it a realistically proportioned torso and legs.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

You said that you wanted it to look like it came from OoT/ TP: That would be classified as a redesign.

The phantom has been scaled to Zelda's size already. Clearly the legs and arms in that screenshot are much longer than in Spirit Tracks.

Regardless of whether or not this is a trophy, a final smash, or a transformation it is clear that this is Phantom Zelda, which is a girl.

And Zelda is in the suit because its PINK, which happens when she possesses phantoms in the first place.

 

[Diddy Kong]

It seems more and more like Phantom is the new Down B. The fact they do NOT show Zelda's moves hints to me on bigger changes than what's made for Lucario, they are only showing the influence of Aura on his moves, they are no dorect moveset changes perse. Just upgrades.

 

[Erimir]

Eh whatever. You're just setting yourselves up for disappointment.

And making it so that people will enjoy mocking you for it.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Eh whatever. You're just setting yourselves up for disappointment.

And making it so that people will enjoy mocking you for it.

This thread is for speculation. I don't care if I end up wrong.

 

[Erimir]

If you're speculating, why are you making so many unqualified statements?

There's some doubt either way, but given the fact that even some of the veterans we thought were among the most likely to be cut (Toon Link, Lucario) are returning, I think the evidence needs to be pretty strong to conclude that Sheik is cut, and even stronger to yell gleefully about how Impa's getting in like Diddy is.

That picture is perfectly consistent with the Phantom being an AT, and there's no evidence against that. The only argument for it NOT being an AT? A desire to see Sheik cut and/or Impa to replace her. The fact that we haven't seen Sheik yet means nothing given that we saw Sheik months later than Zelda last time as well.

The fact that Sakurai hasn't explained what it is yet doesn't matter either, he's shown us things like the Gyroid without explaining that it was part of the Villager's move set for weeks. He showed us WFT's deep breathing and "solar power" months ago and we still don't know whether they're taunts or specials and if so how they work. He showed us Kirby on the Galaxy stage and then revealed it weeks later. We didn't find out for sure that the Yellow Devil was part of the Mega Man stage for months. We still don't know what that 3DS stage from the E3 trailer is exactly. He showed us Starfy without saying explicitly that he's an AT.

Sure it's possible that it's not an AT, but you have to factor that in with your prior probability that Sheik was getting in. Which seems very likely, as she was in both of the last two games, even after she didn't appear in any of the Zelda games between OoT and TP. This affects her chances a little, as it shows us a possible new move... but it seems much more consistent with an AT. Especially considering, you know, the other picture where she's in the same stance and no Phantom. And the fact that making her another two-part character would step on Rosalina's toes and require a total revamp of her moveset (if he's CPU controlled and like an AT, then Zelda's other abilities would need to be balanced against that).

Diddy's prior probability on Sheik getting cut is radically different, since I know he was already thinking she was going to get replaced by Impa () so his interpretation is radically different from a normal person's, but that doesn't mean he's actually got any real evidence.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Speculating is making unqualified statements, rather observations.
I never said anything about Sheik being cut and don't recall ever stating that she would be replaced with Impa.
I personally don't see the Phantom as an assist trophy due to it being scaled to Zelda's proportions.
Also, the toon style characters have little feet that are almost hoof like. Yet the Phantoms legs and feet have clearly been enlarged to be proportioned to
Zelda's size.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

... If it's scaled to Zelda's size as you say, it makes the torso gigantic. Something not that much... Scaled. And those legs are still really shorts. The part you just circled (... Well, squared) is clearly not "zelda sized"

And looking at the scales between Link and Toon Link, the phantom seems perfectly scaled with Toon Link.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

^Keep in mind that the leg is bent, and that the Phantom actually has to resemble Phantom Zelda.
And explain why they added feet to the phantom, well bigger feet.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Still, I dare you to fit a human Hylian calf in there.
It's not that bent. It's not even bent in fact, is clearly upright, on solid ground.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

That isn't bent? You have odd shaped limbs.

The Phantom Is clearly lunging....

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

No, the phantom have odd limbs Even on the artwork, it have longer thighs.

Spoiler

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Nice try, but thats the wrong phantom and using a worms eye view will obviously make it look larger.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Ain't phantoms all the same shape, except the helmet?
And isn't that clear that those calves are shorter on THIS picture?

I hope you are just trolling at this point honestly.