Phantom Knight will protect her from now on ^^

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Ain't phantoms all the same shape, except the helmet?
And isn't that clear that those calves are shorter on THIS picture?

I hope you are just trolling at this point honestly.

Yes the calves are shorter, which they aren't in the screen shot. Thank you.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Clearly a matter of perspective as the left thigh appears significantly longer and the right thigh is angled weird which makes it appear shorter.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Even if her left calf is bent (i agree that seeing that in a bigger image made me saw this (coming back from a party at 3am isn't helping) and apologize about that) you can't decently say the left calf will reach the length of her right thigh. Just... No.

The calves are clearly shorter than the thighs.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Yes but calves are shorter than things in real lifeeeeeeeeee.
So it's supposed to be shorter. :'(

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

*sigh* ... But it's not half the thighs.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

*Bigger sigh*

I never said it was half the thighs..........
also note that theres no butt so the thighs appear even longer in reality.

The angle of her legs make her calves look shorter. As you can see in the same screenshot that has
been pasted numerous times that her left leg is stretched out back and her right leg is on an angle which makes it
appear shorter.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I say the calf is about half the thigh, angle or not. It is clearly shorter, more than in reality.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

-_- Im done, we'll have to wait for a new screen shot.

 

[Miles Pierre]

Geez what's going on in here.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Lol, a debate over legs and thighs

 

[Miles Pierre]

D:

I didn't want to get in on this but the problem I find with the red arrows is that the arrow on the left continues up past the pubic armor while the arrow on the right doesn't. The comparison is misleading. If you were to stop at the beginning of the pubic armor on either side then it would be clearer to see that the legs aren't that much bigger than each other. If that's what the argument is about. And yes, as Zeldaisthegirl pointed out, perspective definitely plays a part. What we're looking at is foreshortening.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Lol, the argument was about how the thigh is larger than the calfs….this sounds silly in retrospect, but whatever.

 

[Miles Pierre]

Ok. Well I made a picture to illustrate that:

* The calves and thigh are actually close in length on this model. But yes, normal proportions on humans will feature a much longer thigh than calf/shin.
* The Arrows are still incredibly misleading
* Foreshortening is confusing whoever posted the original image with the red arrows.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

^ Wouldn't the thighs continue under the "skirt thingy" though?
Something like this...

 

[Miles Pierre]

^ Wouldn't the thighs continue under the "skirt thingy" though?
For example would Zelda's legs fit within the phantoms legs?

Well at that point you'd be at the waist/pubic/crotch area. The picture you made the crotch is much too high. You have to consider the waist and where it's bending to calculate were the crotch is. Really, we can easily rely on the pubic armor to tell us an approximate location for where the thigh ends because the character would need to (and actually does) bend their legs at that point to be mobile.

A pic:

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Oh. okay I get it now. Well I still think its not an AT because of the feet.

 

[Miles Pierre]

Oh. okay I get it now. Well I still think its not an AT because of the feet.
View attachment 8123

I have no idea if it is an AT or not but it would be much more interesting if this character was some sort of summon for Zelda. What's this about the feet?!

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

Okay so basically they changed the phantoms hoof like feet to something more realistically proportioned, something that haven't changed in the spirit tracks stage. So why would they change it? So I think that Its either one of Zelda's new moves a final smash or less likely a transformation.

 

[Miles Pierre]

I hope so ... But with smash it's almost impossible to deduce things like this. Sakurai is a very odd man. I remember I thought for sure Villager was going to be in Brawl because of the Animal Crossing stage and because they even made a new emblem to represent the AC franchise. At the time it made sense because stages were directly related to playable characters and even further emblems were too.

That's why hinging this being a summon on such a small detail may lead to disappointment. Generally I take a wait and see approach to anything Smash related because I'd rather not be disappointed when it doesn't happen.

What is this business about the spirit tracks stage? No worries if you don't feel like explaining, it's just all of these theories and info backing them up is new to me.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

^ The train has conductor link and alfonzo that appear. In both cases each of them maintain their stubby feet (toon feet), yet the phantom has human sized feet, which I thought was odd considering everything else. Thats pretty much it, nothing conclusive but it makes you wonder.

 

[ToothiestAura]

The biggest problems with the theory that the Phantom is part of her moveset have nothing to do with it's legs.

There are 2 major problems with the theory:

1.) Mixing Toon and Realistic Zelda.
Toon Link's inclusion in SSB4 pretty much flies in the face of the conclusion that two styles would be mixed into characters. If Toon Link had not been confirmed for SSB4 this would make more sense.

2.) Why a summon?
The image shows Zelda and the Phantom together. However, in Spirit Tracks Zelda took possession of the Phantom. Her spirit was in the phantom while her body was prisoner elsewhere. The Phantom fits as a transformation, not as a summon.

Diddy only thinks this part of her moveset because he wants Impa to replace Sheik. There is no logical reason why the Phantom would be a summon. Either Diddy is a complete idiot, or his bias against Sheik has made him bat-**** insane.

Incidentally, is it only Diddy who thinks this Phantom is not an AT, but a summon move for Zelda?
There really can't be people this stupid.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

I think Sakurai would have said if it was an AT by now, like he did with skull kid?
1. Maybe Sakurai was hinting at a Toon Zelda?
2. Pretty irrelevant

...and how does Impa replacing Sheik have anything to do with the phantom?

 

[ToothiestAura]

I think Sakurai would have said if it was an AT by now, like he did with skull kid?
1. Maybe Sakurai was hinting at a Toon Zelda?
2. Pretty irrelevant

...and how does Impa replacing Sheik have anything to do with the phantom?

2 isn't irrelevant at all. In fact, it's the biggest issue with the theory that it's part of Zelda's Moveset. Zelda's was the phantom, she didn't summon it. Therefore, it would be stupid if she did, and be completely against the only way it would be sense in her moveset.
This pretty much proves it isn't part of her moveset.

Yes, hinting at Toon Zelda is likely. Or at least referencing Spirit Tracks. The other issue is that when Zelda possessed

Also, the Impa and Sheik thing is about Diddy. It doesn't actually have anything to do with this, but he isn't willing to listen to reason because he wants Sheik gone so much.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

The biggest problems with the theory that the Phantom is part of her moveset have nothing to do with it's legs.

There are 2 major problems with the theory:

1.) Mixing Toon and Realistic Zelda.
Toon Link's inclusion in SSB4 pretty much flies in the face of the conclusion that two styles would be mixed into characters. If Toon Link had not been confirmed for SSB4 this would make more sense.

2.) Why a summon?
The image shows Zelda and the Phantom together. However, in Spirit Tracks Zelda took possession of the Phantom. Her spirit was in the phantom while her body was prisoner elsewhere. The Phantom fits as a transformation, not as a summon.
.

I can see where your coming from but

1. He could be doing this to represent more than that one zelda, especially if toon zelda isnt playable in any way. I mean she already has moves that arent even native to that zelda (or any version of zelda at that)

2. Thats not quite that big of a deal, shes not a spirit so logically she isnt going to inhabit the armor, and she has enough mystic power to believe she could enchant one as well. It still very well could be an AT, but we know things in smash dont always have to function like they did in the game they are derived from. Mario's cape has never been used to reflect things, peach has never had an explosive rump bump, and ness's moves arent even native to that character.

Its still very hard to derive much from the one screen we have, so its still up in the air. But i dont think anything can put laid in stone at the moment.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I can see where your coming from but

1. He could be doing this to represent more than that one zelda, especially if toon zelda isnt playable in any way. I mean she already has moves that arent even native to that zelda (or any version of zelda at that)

2. Thats not quite that big of a deal, shes not a spirit so logically she isnt going to inhabit the armor, and she has enough mystic power to believe she could enchant one as well. It still very well could be an AT, but we know things in smash dont always have to function like they did in the game they are derived from. Mario's cape has never been used to reflect things, peach has never had an explosive rump bump, and ness's moves arent even native to that character.

Its still very hard to derive much from the one screen we have, so its still up in the air. But i dont think anything can put laid in stone at the moment.

I know Smash isn't canon it's use of abilities by the character, but it just seems stupid to make it a summon when it makes more sense as a transformation.

She already represents more than one Zelda anyway, TP design with OoT moves. I just don't see Sakurai crossing the two realms of realistic and toon since he's already made a separate Toon Link. It would make more sense as a transformation for Toon Zelda (who was supposedly planned for SSBB).

Not ruling this out, it just seems very stupid on Sakurai's part.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I know Smash isn't canon it's use of abilities by the character, but it just seems stupid to make it a summon when it makes more sense as a transformation.

She already represents more than one Zelda anyway, TP design with OoT moves. I just don't see Sakurai crossing the two realms of realistic and toon since he's already made a separate Toon Link. It would make more sense as a transformation for Toon Zelda (who was supposedly planned for SSBB).

Not ruling this out, it just seems very stupid on Sakurai's part.

Why is it stupid though? I think shoehorning in another transformation in place of another makes even less sense, zelda doesnt have to be bound the fact that she inhabits the armor in spirit tracks. If theres a better workaround while still representing the phantom i dont see how thats a bad thing.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Why is it stupid though? I think shoehorning in another transformation in place of another makes even less sense, zelda doesnt have to be bound the fact that she inhabits the armor in spirit tracks. If theres a better workaround while still representing the phantom i dont see how thats a bad thing.

Zelda/Sheik is one of the more unique concepts in Smash replacing it with another transformation at least keeps it along the same lines. A summon isn't unique, it's essentially a personal AT. Sakurai would be stupid to get rid of something original and replace with it something so mundane.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Zelda/Sheik is one of the more unique concepts in Smash replacing it with another transformation at least keeps it along the same lines. A summon isn't unique, it's essentially a personal AT. Sakurai would be stupid to get rid of something original and replace with it something so mundane.

But what if another character got that gimmick? Its zeldas unique aspect now, but that doesnt mean it will forever have to stay that way. Just because you see it as mundane doesnt mean it doesnt hold potential, stop speaking in absolutes when there is potential for something else. I can understand your personal taste for the matter, but that doesnt make it any less viable.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

But what if another character got that gimmick? Its zeldas unique aspect now, but that doesnt mean it will forever have to stay that way. Just because you see it as mundane doesnt mean it doesnt hold potential, stop speaking in absolutes when there is potential for something else. I can understand your personal taste for the matter, but that doesnt make it any less viable.

I really don't like the idea of Zelda losing the gimmick she brought in smash bros (the transformation) to get a gimmick from a newcommer (the summon, though working different.)

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

I really don't like the idea of Zelda losing the gimmick she brought in smash bros (the transformation) to get a gimmick from a newcommer (the summon, though working different.)

theres always the possibility of someone like prince sable, or even a mega evo in game so that could happen as well.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Still, It would be like removing Nana because we have Rosalina and Luma. Or removing the hats from Kirby for the benefit of Megaman copy ability (he doesn't do that in smash, and doesn't "copy" skills in his games, but you get my point I guess).

I know I like Zelda (I thinks it's been obvious since some times), but I don't like this idea. It would also be like changing Captain Falcon for the benefit of decloning Ganondorf.

 

[ToothiestAura]

But what if another character got that gimmick? Its zeldas unique aspect now, but that doesnt mean it will forever have to stay that way. Just because you see it as mundane doesnt mean it doesnt hold potential, stop speaking in absolutes when there is potential for something else. I can understand your personal taste for the matter, but that doesnt make it any less viable.

It seems stupid to get rid of the one who brought the mechanic to the game, but it isn't impossible, no. The important thing to focus on is the stupidity of Zelda summoning it when it is absolutely more suited to a transformation. This isn't personal taste here, but rather a function that work more similarly to the game it hails from. My personal taste for the matter is that it's all stupid and the Pahntom is an asisst.

What about this sounds absolute?

Not ruling this out, it just seems very stupid on Sakurai's part.

theres always the possibility of someone like prince sable, or even a mega evo in game so that could happen as well.

Prince Sable is a good example. Mega-evoltuion is not, as mega-evolutions are supposed to be more powerful than the normal Pokemon. It seems more suited as a Final Smash for a Pokemon or Lucaio's mega-evolution being tied to his aura mechanic considering it makes him powerful.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

It seems stupid to get rid of the one who brought the mechanic to the game, but it isn't impossible, no. The important thing to focus on is the stupidity of Zelda summoning it when it is absolutely more suited to a transformation. This isn't personal taste here, but rather a function that work more similarly to the game it hails from. My personal taste for the matter is that it's all stupid and the Pahntom is an asisst.

What about this sounds absolute?



Prince Sable is a good example. Mega-evoltuion is not, as mega-evolutions are supposed to be more powerful than the normal Pokemon. It seems more suited as a Final Smash for a Pokemon or Lucaio's mega-evolution being tied to his aura mechanic considering it makes him powerful.

Anjean summoned a phantom in spirit tracks, maybe zelda is borrowing that power. I don't really see your point here considering Zelda has borrowed Links spells it really isn't a big deal.
As there are more Zelda games that show off new aspects of Zelda, I think it's kind of important to update the characters to reflect some of their new abilities.
Not just TP & OoT, TP being very weak in giving Zelda anything new. (Other then her style)

 

[Erimir]

The difference, however, is that this is cutting a character, not just changing her move set.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

^ No, ToothiestAura it saying that the Phantom is either a transformation or an AT and says it's stupid that the Phantom would be a move(summoning).
I'm saying that it isn't stupid that this is a move, and that it's not a big deal.

This has nothing to do with Sheik, unless you agree with toothiestAura, which I do not.

 

[Erimir]

I was saying as far as it being important to update the characters.

I think Zelda could use some work, and Sheik's move set could as well.

But cutting Sheik altogether is not the same as revamping her move set. Unless you think Zelda has the Phantom AND Sheik transformation (performed with a taunt or something).

 

[Morbi]

I was saying as far as it being important to update the characters.

I think Zelda could use some work, and Sheik's move set could as well.

But cutting Sheik altogether is not the same as revamping her move set. Unless you think Zelda has the Phantom AND Sheik transformation (performed with a taunt or something).

It doesn't even have to be that, it is entirely possible that the two are separate characters, albeit that is the negative we are discussing. However, it isn't an either or situation. Anything can happen, my sister and I joke that Phantom is actually a playable character (probably Toon Zelda's transformation). It is all just speculation, I highly doubt Sakurai would implement something highly detrimental to Zelda.

 

[Zeldaisthegirl]

I honestly think Sheik is here to stay, Phantom is probably something else. But I don't think it's an AT.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Anjean summoned a phantom in spirit tracks, maybe zelda is borrowing that power. I don't really see your point here considering Zelda has borrowed Links spells it really isn't a big deal.
As there are more Zelda games that show off new aspects of Zelda, I think it's kind of important to update the characters to reflect some of their new abilities.
Not just TP & OoT, TP being very weak in giving Zelda anything new. (Other then her style)

Again, Zelda clearly already represents multiple Zeldas. Had Toon Link never been playable and/or didn't return it would be much more likely that Sakurai would combine realistic and toon elements into one character.
And if they were to update Zelda to reflect her new abilities it would be a transformation.
Also, what do you think the Phantom is if it not a special or an At?