Phantom Knight will protect her from now on ^^

[Katty Shepherd]

What I really hope Phantom can do is help Zelda get an approaching options that she really needs. In general having one more move in her arsenal would help of course.

 

[Bedoop]

Discuss her new Down B:

Oh, how you were correct.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I might not believe ZeRo's list.
But when his and Amazing Ampharos' lists both have Zelda as dead last, it sure makes you wonder about her...
At least AA described, in detail, WHY she was terrible.

 

[Katy Parry]

Amazing Ampharos.
I do hope, and sorta believe, that it'll be adjusted in the final product. Imo, the Phantom should work similar to Ike's >B.

There's a huge difference, though - Ike has to travel with his > B. Zelda is stationary, and the Phantom gives her benefits that Ike doesn't get. She has a safe interruption/attack/shield. She's even able to follow up instantly with a chase (Din's Fire). Because of this, the Phantom can't go out too far for balancing reasons. She also shouldn't be able to use it to recover, either; her recovery is one of if not the best in the game.

Don't get me wrong. I would love if it was fast and was able to go a longer distance. But for what it offers Zelda, I think it's shaping up to be pretty balanced.

This really has insane potential for many uses. It opens up so many more doors than we realize in a 1v1 situation.

 

[Z1GMA]

There's a huge difference, though - Ike has to travel with his > B. Zelda is stationary, and the Phantom gives her benefits that Ike doesn't get. She has a safe interruption/attack/shield. She's even able to follow up instantly with a chase (Din's Fire). Because of this, the Phantom can't go out too far for balancing reasons. She also shouldn't be able to use it to recover, either; her recovery is one of if not the best in the game.

Don't get me wrong. I would love if it was fast and was able to go a longer distance. But for what it offers Zelda, I think it's shaping up to be pretty balanced.

This really has insane potential for many uses. It opens up so many more doors than we realize in a 1v1 situation.

Well, the only thing I'm hoping for, is that it doesn't go past opponents if you charge it "too much", which it currently does .

In the current build, it is outclassed by Megaman's Fsmash in every way, except for maybe range.

 

[Katy Parry]

Well, the only thing I'm hoping for, is that it doesn't go past opponents if you charge it "too much", which it currently does .

In the current build, it is outclassed by Megaman's Fsmash in every way, except for maybe range.

Out classes? Can mega man jump off the stage and use it for an interception? Or while airborne? How about for a shield?

Zelda can bait out strong attacks (charge shot) and grab/attack on their lag, too.

Being reflected can be a good thing, too, as she can bait it and nayrus right after as well.

There are numerous advantages over mm fsmash.

I'd also like to see this AA list your talking about.

 

[Z1GMA]

Out classes? Can mega man jump off the stage and use it for an interception? Or while airborne? How about for a shield?

Zelda can bait out strong attacks (charge shot) and grab/attack on their lag, too.

Being reflected can be a good thing, too, as she can bait it and nayrus right after as well.

There are numerous advantages over mm fsmash.

I'd also like to see this AA list your talking about.

Zelda seems like the worst character in this demo by far. The biggest issue is that usmash has reduced hitboxes compared to Brawl while her other decent moves (tilts, fsmash) seem about the same. Din's Fire is still too slow to have any use. The Phantom is somehow even slower and worse than Din's Fire. It takes forever to use no matter what, and if you don't charge it, it doesn't hit very far forward. It has no tracking so you have to charge carefully the right amount to hit specific points forward which with the general sloth of the move is an impossible task even in FFA where you won't always be the focus. In singles, this may be the new single worst move in the game. Her grabs are still extremely laggy just like in Brawl. Lightning kicks seem very similar to Brawl as well as do her other two specials. The only actual buffs she seems to have is that dair stretches that foot down further and uair hits a bit bigger area. Yeah, she was already bottom tier in Brawl and got worse; she needs a ton of work if she's going to be a real character in this game.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

AA seems to be missing critical information on her, though, so I'm not sure I trust his assessment. Like the obvious buff to FW, position change of Naryu's Love, Nair buff (iirc), and utilt potential nerf/buff.

 

[BJN39]

^ THIS.

His post, while better work than ZeRo's "assessment", was still lacking some information he likely didn't know.

Seriously, though, "Single worst move"? Are you kidding me? That's just the most ignorant statement ever... I wouldn't give his opinion of Zelda much weight. @ Z1GMA

 

[Katy Parry]

^ THIS.

His post, while better work than ZeRo's "assessment", was still lacking some information he likely didn't know.

Seriously, though, "Single worst move"? Are you kidding me? That's just the most ignorant statement ever... I wouldn't give his opinion of Zelda much weight. @ Z1GMA

Exactly... This is STILL all based on 4 player free for alls of a DEMO

 

[Toadallstar2]

Apologies, I tried looking, but I canot find that assessment anywhere?

And yes, I don't really believe that either that she's the bottom of the bottom.

 

[Katy Parry]

Apologies, I tried looking, but I canot find that assessment anywhere?

And yes, I don't really believe that either that she's the bottom of the bottom.

Yeah, we haven't had a real analysis of her yet at ALL.. So..

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah, we haven't had a real analysis of her yet at ALL.. So..

I don't think anyone has true data on the characters expect the people making the game, making an unbiased assumption about any character is just about impossible. Naturally Zelda has farther to go than other characters but I think she's going to be good this time around, I think the phantom will definitely help.

 

[Erimir]

I'm expecting a large cast with a good deal of variety...

I think seeing Ganondorf, Zelda, Sheik, a Zora and a Goron are very strong possibilities.

Beyond that, they have a lot of choices like Midna, Vaati, Nabooru, Tetra, Zant, members of the TP Resistance, Ghirahim, Groose, a Rito, etc.

So we've seen all the red ones as playable, and the purple ones are all in the game (but we don't know if they're playable yet).

I seem to be better at predicting Hyrule Warriors than Smash Bros. Hmm.

 

[P.J.☆]

I might not believe ZeRo's list.
But when his and Amazing Ampharos' lists both have Zelda as dead last, it sure makes you wonder about her...
At least AA described, in detail, WHY she was terrible.

Like someone above me said AA was missing alot of Zelda's buffs in his "detailed description" of a character he didn't even play. To me it looks like Zelda has been hugely improved and while she definitely won't be top tier she's definitely not bottom tier either. She kinda looks like she plays like Super Smash Flash 2 Zelda.

That being said Phantom Slash while looking like a terrible move at first offers Zelda something she's always wanted. An approach option.(Depending if she can hold it like Samus's charge shot or not will determine the viability of this move.) Giving Zelda a wall against the opponent and maybe an out of shield option.

With Faore's being buffed with a kill move in it's reappear hitbox and very short landing lag Zelda has a much better recovery/mobility than ever.

Nayru's also comes out faster and doesn't lag as much. The hits also look like they connect better.

All her smashes look great and they all look like they've finally veen given real KO power.(I've seen Zelda ko fox with fsmash and dsmash around 90-110%) and Usmash pulls people into the last hit.

And with up tilt becoming a combo move, and dash attack being a new easy ko/approach option Zelda's looking to be a great mid tier character given a proper main uses her full potential!

 

[Novice_Brave]

In the E3 demo at least, I believe it was confirmed she cannot hold a Phantom charge like a Samus/Lucario shot. Unfortunate, for sure, but it still has a lot to it that we won't be able to fully grasp until we've had her in our hands for a while - and who knows? Maybe the final build will allow us to carry Phantoms around.

 

[Oz37]

Like someone above me said AA was missing alot of Zelda's buffs in his "detailed description" of a character he didn't even play. To me it looks like Zelda has been hugely improved and while she definitely won't be top tier she's definitely not bottom tier either. She kinda looks like she plays like Super Smash Flash 2 Zelda.

That being said Phantom Slash while looking like a terrible move at first offers Zelda something she's always wanted. An approach option.(Depending if she can hold it like Samus's charge shot or not will determine the viability of this move.) Giving Zelda a wall against the opponent and maybe an out of shield option.

With Faore's being buffed with a kill move in it's reappear hitbox and very short landing lag Zelda has a much better recovery/mobility than ever.

Nayru's also comes out faster and doesn't lag as much. The hits also look like they connect better.

All her smashes look great and they all look like they've finally veen given real KO power.(I've seen Zelda ko fox with fsmash and dsmash around 90-110%) and Usmash pulls people into the last hit.

And with up tilt becoming a combo move, and dash attack being a new easy ko/approach option Zelda's looking to be a great mid tier character given a proper main uses her full potential!

Welcome to the boards! I always do appreciate an optimist. I'm so hyped to play Zelda this time around I can't stand it. I've always liked both her and Sheik, but it did always feel off that neither really felt like a complete solo character. All of the complaints I'm seeing about her now are from people who aren't taking the time to get to know her style and/or are expecting her to be a finished product in an early demo build.

 

[Novice_Brave]

Like someone above me said AA was missing alot of Zelda's buffs in his "detailed description" of a character he didn't even play. To me it looks like Zelda has been hugely improved and while she definitely won't be top tier she's definitely not bottom tier either. She kinda looks like she plays like Super Smash Flash 2 Zelda.

That being said Phantom Slash while looking like a terrible move at first offers Zelda something she's always wanted. An approach option.(Depending if she can hold it like Samus's charge shot or not will determine the viability of this move.) Giving Zelda a wall against the opponent and maybe an out of shield option.

With Faore's being buffed with a kill move in it's reappear hitbox and very short landing lag Zelda has a much better recovery/mobility than ever.

Nayru's also comes out faster and doesn't lag as much. The hits also look like they connect better.

All her smashes look great and they all look like they've finally veen given real KO power.(I've seen Zelda ko fox with fsmash and dsmash around 90-110%) and Usmash pulls people into the last hit.

And with up tilt becoming a combo move, and dash attack being a new easy ko/approach option Zelda's looking to be a great mid tier character given a proper main uses her full potential!

Oh yes, and welcome to the boards

 

[P.J.☆]

Welcome to the boards! I always do appreciate an optimist. I'm so hyped to play Zelda this time around I can't stand it. I've always liked both her and Sheik, but it did always feel off that neither really felt like a complete solo character. All of the complaints I'm seeing about her now are from people who aren't taking the time to get to know her style and/or are expecting her to be a finished product in an early demo build.

Oh yes, and welcome to the boards

Thanks Also If we if we can't hold phantoms then I take everything back about it, it's poo. But still she look's alot like smash flash 2 zelda. Which is mega fun to play!

 

[Toadallstar2]

Like someone above me said AA was missing alot of Zelda's buffs in his "detailed description" of a character he didn't even play. To me it looks like Zelda has been hugely improved and while she definitely won't be top tier she's definitely not bottom tier either. She kinda looks like she plays like Super Smash Flash 2 Zelda.

Welcome, sis. Love that post.
yeah, Phantom cannot be held like Samus/DK/etc, but it's definitely a good move for a shield. Also remember it's good for blocking out projectiles, without the lag of Nayrus (even though, that too, has been improved). Characters who come in with a projectile won't like it... Such as Pikachu using it's standard B, the jolt while attempting to combo.
She certainly slays for FFA/4 player matches. Imagine coming in out of nowhere with FW in a split second. Anyone with damage of 70+ will be KO'd. Even less if near the edge of the stage. We can't predict how well it's used for 1 on 1. Even then, it would wear their shield down a lot, and if she's on level ground, would hardly have ending lag.
From watching matches, Nayrus seems like the way safer down smash. She's almost invincible for a short period while down smash, she is exposed.

 

[P.J.☆]

Welcome, sis. Love that post.
yeah, Phantom cannot be held like Samus/DK/etc, but it's definitely a good move for a shield. Also remember it's good for blocking out projectiles, without the lag of Nayrus (even though, that too, has been improved). Characters who come in with a projectile won't like it... Such as Pikachu using it's standard B, the jolt while attempting to combo.
She certainly slays for FFA/4 player matches. Imagine coming in out of nowhere with FW in a split second. Anyone with damage of 70+ will be KO'd. Even less if near the edge of the stage. We can't predict how well it's used for 1 on 1. Even then, it would wear their shield down a lot, and if she's on level ground, would hardly have ending lag.
From watching matches, Nayrus seems like the way safer down smash. She's almost invincible for a short period while down smash, she is exposed.

Well maybe Phantom won't be completely useless depending on how long it stays out after being casted. It could still be used as a wall and a out of shield option.

And I agree Faore's looks so amazing in this game. Surprise KOs, edge-guard punish, and with it being virtually lagless a flashy replacement for getting across the stage for a edge guard!

Yes! Nayru's buff is sure to put a damper on projectile heavy characters, down smash can reliably KO around 100% this time around. So I'm gonna stick with it's godlike-ness. I hope Nayru's can shine-spike in the air like it could in melee! It would be a super safe off stage option!

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Well maybe Phantom won't be completely useless depending on how long it stays out after being casted. It could still be used as a wall and a out of shield option.

And I agree Faore's looks so amazing in this game. Surprise KOs, edge-guard punish, and with it being virtually lagless a flashy replacement for getting across the stage for a edge guard!

Yes! Nayru's buff is sure to put a damper on projectile heavy characters, down smash can reliably KO around 100% this time around. So I'm gonna stick with it's godlike-ness. I hope Nayru's can shine-spike in the air like it could in melee! It would be a super safe off stage option!

Is down smash as fast as it was in Brawl? I always liked having one of the fastest moves in the games. It was a bit hard to get a good hit but I have KO'ed with Dsmash.

 

[☆Jazz☆]

Well maybe Phantom won't be completely useless depending on how long it stays out after being casted. It could still be used as a wall and a out of shield option.

And I agree Faore's looks so amazing in this game. Surprise KOs, edge-guard punish, and with it being virtually lagless a flashy replacement for getting across the stage for a edge guard!

Yes! Nayru's buff is sure to put a damper on projectile heavy characters, down smash can reliably KO around 100% this time around. So I'm gonna stick with it's godlike-ness. I hope Nayru's can shine-spike in the air like it could in melee! It would be a super safe off stage option!

Yes, Yes, and Yes! Welcome to the boards btw .

 

[ZombieBran]

Is down smash as fast as it was in Brawl? I always liked having one of the fastest moves in the games. It was a bit hard to get a good hit but I have KO'ed with Dsmash.

From what I've seen, it's about the same speed but its range was slightly reduced.
Which is a shame because I liked how it could hit below some stage ledges previously.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

From what I've seen, it's about the same speed but its range was slightly reduced.
Which is a shame because I liked how it could hit below some stage ledges previously.

As long as I can reliably go to it for a GTFO maneuver I'm okay.
Edge guarding is second priority to me when it comes to down smash.

 

[BJN39]

For Dsmash, it looks a whole lot like Melee's range. So, it's not bad, but it does have slightly less range.

1 sec, and lemme get the comparisons from Melee and Brawl...
EDIT: Well, shoot. The original hit-box images for Brawl Dsmash I use are 404s now. :\

In other news, here are some nice things Brawl gave us...

Dat ZSS grab blind spot

Dat beard hawtness

 

[Katty Shepherd]

For Dsmash, it looks a whole lot like Melee's range. So, it's not bad, but it does have slightly less range.

1 sec, and lemme get the comparisons from Melee and Brawl...
EDIT: Well, shoot. The original hit-box images for Brawl Dsmash I use are 404s now. :\

In other news, here are some nice things Brawl gave us...

Dat ZSS grab blind spot

Dat beard hawtness

Zelda wears the beard better than Snake does. Lets be honest here.

 

[ZombieBran]

Zelda wears the beard better than Snake does. Lets be honest here.

Yeah, but Snake makes pink and blush sexier.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Yeah, but Snake makes pink and blush sexier.

*stares at picture*
He IS wearing blush. That is so... adorable? Creepy? Cute? Pretty?
I have mixed feelings.
How did this even happen?

 

[Luminario]

For Dsmash, it looks a whole lot like Melee's range. So, it's not bad, but it does have slightly less range.

1 sec, and lemme get the comparisons from Melee and Brawl...
EDIT: Well, shoot. The original hit-box images for Brawl Dsmash I use are 404s now. :\

In other news, here are some nice things Brawl gave us...

Dat ZSS grab blind spot

Dat beard hawtness

Zelda with a beard reminds me of someone...

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Zelda with a beard reminds me of someone...

...
You know a few posts ago we were having a fairly serious conversation.
What happened to that?

 

[Luminario]

...
You know a few posts ago we were having a fairly serious conversation.
What happened to that?

Ah if I had a pound for every time I made something serious into something silly... I'd be scrolling through smashboards and tumblr in a mansion.
But yes yes Zelda's down smash hitbox and all that. Gonna have to test it out to see if it's as good as it was before when the game comes out over here.

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Ah if I had a pound for every time I made something serious into something silly... I'd be scrolling through smashboards and tumblr in a mansion.
But yes yes Zelda's down smash hitbox and all that. Gonna have to test it out to see if it's as good as it was before when the game comes out over here.

Next to lightning kick that was one of my favorite moves, it would make me sad if it got nerfed.

 

[P.J.☆]

Next to lightning kick that was one of my favorite moves, it would make me sad if it got nerfed.

Down smash looks far from nerfed! It just traded alittle range for consistent kill power!

 

[Katty Shepherd]

Down smash looks far from nerfed! It just traded alittle range for consistent kill power!

Of course it's not really a range attack to begin with. If I want to really poke at somebody I'd use dtilt, not dsmash. So I guess the range doesn't really matter. It's already a fast, powerful move, buffing the power and trading the range is more than in our favor.