Phantom Knight will protect her from now on ^^

[TheTuninator]

Sheik's a very popular character thanks to her important role in arguably the most popular and famous Zelda game as well as her strength in Melee and the simple "cool" appeal of ninjas. She's not the most popular character, but she's definitely got a lot of fans.

Cutting Sheik would provoke a far bigger backlash than cutting Roy. Roy's only western appearance was in Smash. Sheik's from one of the most famous and beloved Nintendo titles of all time.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Her moveset got a lot of fans. That's the big thing about Sheik. Am hoping to find the source on this one soon but, in the Impa thread, someone stated that Sakurai choose Sheik only cause he wanted a ninja character, and could create one out of her. If this is true, he'll likely won't care if Sheik is gone as long as he has a replacement ready. And what different character aside from Impa makes the best replacement for Sheik you'd say? Separate Sheik won't happen either. If Zelda is getting huge revamps, why wouldn't they revamp Sheik heavily by creating Impa out of it?

 

[TopTierPichu]

I doubt they will cut Lucas, also this new design is weird

 

[Frostwraith]

Her moveset got a lot of fans. That's the big thing about Sheik. Am hoping to find the source on this one soon but, in the Impa thread, someone stated that Sakurai choose Sheik only cause he wanted a ninja character, and could create one out of her. If this is true, he'll likely won't care if Sheik is gone as long as he has a replacement ready. And what different character aside from Impa makes the best replacement for Sheik you'd say? Separate Sheik won't happen either. If Zelda is getting huge revamps, why wouldn't they revamp Sheik heavily by creating Impa out of it?

The problem with that is that Impa is nowhere near as popular as Sheik and I don't think Sakurai will do such a thing of adding a newcomer, yet dumping Sheik's moveset on her. It just sounds weird.

Before you argue the same thing about Toon Link, mind that what happened was a Link clone being replaced by another Link clone. Impa replacing Sheik would be more or less like replacing Ness with Ninten, while Ninten keeps the same or a very similar moveset as Ness.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Funny how you mentoin Ness, cause Ness himself would've been replaced by Lucas if Mother 64 would have finalised. Jigglypuff also can be argued to be a last priority re-add to Brawl. It's not like veterans are 100% safe, even if they come from the very first game in the series as you see here!

 

[Frostwraith]

Funny how you mentoin Ness, cause Ness himself would've been replaced by Lucas if Mother 64 would have finalised. Jigglypuff also can be argued to be a last priority re-add to Brawl. It's not like veterans are 100% safe, even if they come from the very first game in the series as you see here!

I'm aware of that. Lucas was indeed going to replace Ness in Melee. By the time Brawl came, Ness was quite popular and I think it was a reason that Lucas was added alongside Ness, instead of replacing him.

I remember when people feared that Lucas would, indeed, replace Ness in Brawl. "Up until now...", Sakurai stated...

 

[Louie G.]

It is arguable that Sheik and Lucas are about the same in importance.
They have both appeared in only one game (not counting OoT remakes).
And you may argue that since Mother is a smaller series that Lucas is more important.
You might be right, but OoT is arguably the most important game in the series. It needs representation in some form.

 

[Sharkarat]

It is arguable that Sheik and Lucas are about the same in importance.
They have both appeared in only one game (not counting OoT remakes).
And you may argue that since Mother is a smaller series that Lucas is more important.
You might be right, but OoT is arguably the most important game in the series. It needs representation in some form.

You're ingnoring the fact that Lucas is the main character of his game while Sheik is not. On the other hand Sheik own Importance is very weird because, because it mostly comes from her being Zelda.

 

[TheTuninator]

Lucas is a protagonist, but the popularity of Ocarina of Time massively exceeds that of the entire Mother franchise. So Lucas is more important within his series, but his importance as a rep in Smash is less than Sheik, especially given that Sheik is a two-time veteran.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

About Sheik, she is indeed a secondary character (the first secondary playable character in Smash), but the Zelda franchise is essentially about Link/Zelda/Ganon.

Having secondary characters for Zelda in smash seems obligatory to me, or we will end up with only different incarnations of the wielders of the Triforce. Sheik is a 2-time veteran as stated by TheTuninator, a character from a popular game and playable in another popular game. It's also part of Zelda, as she IS Zelda. Removing Sheik seems pretty stupid to me, it would be like removing Nana because Rosalina & Luma is another 2 in 1 character. The transform gimmick has been brought by Zelda.

About Impa, OoT and SS incarnations does have the ability to fight, but I don't think OoT impa's popularity comes close to Sheik. And about SS Impa, the problem is her short legs, wich is an important part of Sheik gameplay.

 

[TheTuninator]

Sheik's not even really a secondary character, since she is Zelda. A particular incarnation of Zelda, sure, but Zelda nonetheless.

 

[Diddy Kong]

SS Impa doesn't have short legs at all...

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Hm... Ok I said something wrong. I remembered her legs being shorter, and her torso longer. But she have some weird proportions, especially her long arms. This may be due to her really thin look.

 

[Diddy Kong]

She's thinner and taller than Sheik, but has longer legs.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Well, she is certainly taller than Sheik. But I don't think the sheikah character being taller is a benefit, being a bigger target. Even if it gives more range.

The height/range difference would probably almost nothing, though.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Well, she is certainly taller than Sheik. But I don't think the sheikah character being taller is a benefit, being a bigger target. Even if it gives more range.

The height/range difference would probably almost nothing, though.

You know they adjust height for smash, right?
I also don't see how you can tell SS Impa is taller than Sheik. They're from different games. The body proportions in SS were very exaggerated and were a lot more realistic in OoT.

 

[Spire]

Hm... Ok I said something wrong. I remembered her legs being shorter, and her torso longer. But she have some weird proportions, especially her long arms. This may be due to her really thin look.

It's her pants that create the "short leg" illusion. She is proportional, in fact, most characters in Skyward Sword were proportional. The proportional gradient was much wider in SS than in TP, hence why we have characters like Groose, Colin, Impa, Kaepora Gaebora, and Batreaux. People came in many different sizes and shapes, but proportions were intact to their stature, unlike most, if not all characters in the Toon games, who featured stubby legs and elongated torsos and arms.

Impa sports a body reminiscent of a gazelle. She's long, thin, strong, agile, and possesses a light/dark dichotomy between her skin, markings, lips, and hair.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You know they adjust height for smash, right?
I also don't see how you can tell SS Impa is taller than Sheik. They're from different games. The body proportions in SS were very exaggerated and were a lot more realistic in OoT.

Impa was taller than Link in Ocarina of Time, who was about just as tall as Zelda. Talking about full grown Link and Zelda to.

SS Impa really towers both Link and Zelda though. It's safe to assume Impa is larger than Sheik.

 

[DMurr]

Talking about Impa every where on Smash Boards is making her more likely for Smash 4.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Actually, I've been wondering. How are the MiiVerse updates ever since Zelda's reveal? Are people speaking of Sheik or Impa in any way or form?

 

[guedes the brawler]

shiek was alos meant to balance zelda, you know? Fast and weak VS strong and slow.

between that, and her other specials bringing at least 3 different mottifs that requires them to be together, i don't see it as Zelda's move.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Sheik's popularity has grown enough to the point where I can't see him/her leaving the roster, especially if he/she is only to be replaced with Impa. It seems like quite a bad decision, but that's just what I think.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Impa was taller than Link in Ocarina of Time, who was about just as tall as Zelda. Talking about full grown Link and Zelda to.

SS Impa really towers both Link and Zelda though. It's safe to assume Impa is larger than Sheik.

No, it isn't. Scale between games is completely beyond comparison. We have no idea if Link and Zelda are the same height as their OoT counterparts. It wouldn't make sense if they were, given that they're different people.

Look, if you take an in-depth look at both games comparing the height of Links to the structures shared between each game and come up with roughly the same ratio then this makes sense. And even if you were to do that and come up with definitive results, it literally means for smash because characters are re-sized to fit.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik's popularity has grown enough to the point where I can't see him/her leaving the roster, especially if he/she is only to be replaced with Impa. It seems like quite a bad decision, but that's just what I think.

How did you actually meassure Sheik's popularity? I hear this all the time 'Sheik is popular, Sheik is popular' but exactly what proof do you have on this? I think she was only ever popular in Melee, because of her moveset and playstyle. She was long conisdered Top Tier, untill advanced techniques came into play, pushing Fox and Falco up. Sheik ONLY has her popularity thanks to this.

Who ever said that Sheik is totally awesome in Brawl? I doubt many did. Sheik is probably one of the least played characters in Brawl, because of being nerfed so much. Bowser will have his faithful fans, Mario will have his faithful fans, Jigglypuff will have it's faithful fans, all despite their Tier ranking. Sheik? Not so much at all!

 

[ToothiestAura]

Not so much at all!

How did you actually measure this? Go make a survey, administer it and get back to us. Immediately upon refuting KingPhantom's point by saying he has no proof , you make a statement for which you have no proof. Where's the logic in that?

 

[Diddy Kong]

How did you actually measure this? Go make a survey, administer it and get back to us. Immediately upon refuting KingPhantom's point by saying he has no proof , you make a statement for which you have no proof. Where's the logic in that?

Check the Brawl boards talking about Sheik, and check the Melee boards talking about Sheik. Why am I even the one who has to proof himself all the time? Sheik fans are lacking the most proof. The best 'proof' you guys have is: 'Expect what has been done before' and 'Sheik will be back cause she was in Brawl'. Completely skipping every reason to even WHY this happened the first place.

Not many people play Sheik in Brawl. This is cause she is nerfed, and the character probably isn't liked enough to continue being mained despite this. Mario, Bowser, Samus, Link, Ganondorf? All worse characters than Sheik on the tier list. Ike to, yet more people play as those characters than Sheik. Hell, it seems more people even play Ness, Lucas, Pokémon Trainer and Yoshi than Sheik.

This is simple proof that people don't like Sheik if she isn't a highly easy to use, overpowered character in Smash. Which is why so many want her back. IT'S THE MOVESET THAT PEOPLE LIKE, NOT THE CHARACTER. And with moveset I mean, they like combos, and Sheik had them. In Melee.

Am done explaining myself. People won't appriciate the truth anyway.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Not many people play Sheik in Brawl. This is cause she is nerfed... This is simple proof that people don't like Sheik if she isn't a highly easy to use, overpowered character in Smash. Which is why so many want her back. IT'S THE MOVESET THAT PEOPLE LIKE, NOT THE CHARACTER. And with moveset I mean, they like combos, and Sheik had them. In Melee.

This proves nothing, you know? People who care about nerfs are not representative entire smash playing community, nor are members at smashboards. Tons of casuals play this game that don't give a **** about nerfs nor the game's lack of balance.

Why am I even the one who has to proof himself all the time?

You aren't. I'm just saying do not negate someone else's argument on the grounds that they have no proof only to offer an argument of your own with no proof. It's contradictory.[/quote]

Am done explaining myself. People won't appriciate the truth anyway.

Look, man. Everything's wrong until proven right. It's a scientific principle. And a legal principle.

 

[Diddy Kong]

And who said we apply the principles of science and justice here? You also remind me exactly why I hate the justice system.

Why can you claim Sheik is popular without proof, but I can't bring something which is far more close to any truth?

This is pure bias.

Yeah casuals don't care much about nerfs, but it's very, very easy to notice the changes between Melee Sheik and Brawl Sheik. NOTHING KILLS ANYMORE in Sheik's moveset anyway. Even the most casual of the most casual of Melee players would know that Melee Sheik's Forward Air was an extremely powerful move.

Even if Sheik is popular, you really think that holds any vallue? Mewtwo was cut from Brawl's roster, and right now he's the most popular suggestion. He was also massively popular pre-Melee, far more than Sheik. And far more important to Pokémon to as a whole, appearing in the most popular entries of the series as well. Now how exactly does Sheik compare to this?

 

[Katy Parry]

And who said we apply the principles of science and justice here? You also remind me exactly why I hate the justice system.

Why can you claim Sheik is popular without proof, but I can't bring something which is far more close to any truth?

This is pure bias.

Yeah casuals don't care much about nerfs, but it's very, very easy to notice the changes between Melee Sheik and Brawl Sheik. NOTHING KILLS ANYMORE in Sheik's moveset anyway. Even the most casual of the most casual of Melee players would know that Melee Sheik's Forward Air was an extremely powerful move.

Even if Sheik is popular, you really think that holds any value? Mewtwo was cut from Brawl's roster, and right now he's the most popular suggestion. He was also massively popular pre-Melee, far more than Sheik. And far more important to Pokémon to as a whole, appearing in the most popular entries of the series as well. Now how exactly does Sheik compare to this?

Because once again,Sheik is a part of Zelda's moveset. That's what guarantees her placement in Smash 4.

Like many others have stated against you, Zelda is the character that brought the transformation gimmick. No other character that has a moveset change has affected another playable character. And others arguing that Zelda will turn into Impa or something wouldn't make any sense because ZELDA is NOT IMPA. The part of Zelda that is most attractive and interesting to the general public is the fact she can access a faster part of herself.

And yes, people saying "She made it into Brawl" IS enough proof that Sheik will make a return. Zelda is a verteran, a 3 time runner now, and everytime she's in the game, so is Sheik. That what Zelda is known for BY THE SMASH AUDIENCE. IT WOULD NOT MAKE ANY SENSE FOR SAKURAI TO CHANGE EVERYTHING WE KNOW ABOUT A CHARACTER FOR NO REASON.

If Zelda hadn't not been confirmed to return, THEN it would be safe to assume that SHEIK would not return either. In the smash universe, they are LINKED.

Your Mewtwo argument would make sense if Zelda wasn't returning. This is EXACTLY the same scenario if Nana was removed from Popo. To you, you would say that makes no sense, but Nana is a fundamental part of the Ice Climbers special moves. Without one, you have no recovery, and less damage. Without Sheik, you really have no Zelda.

Finally, you stating that Sakurai "probably or wouldn't" etc doesn't make sense either, because you're not him. And its pretty apparent that Zelda is a part of Sheik, for my final reason being THEY SHARED AN ICON on the character Selection screen!

TL;DR: It does not make sense to remove a character that is accessed through another characters special move, and has also been featured in the past two titles.

 

[ToothiestAura]

And who said we apply the principles of science and justice here? You also remind me exactly why I hate the justice system.

You always apply scientific principles. The legal thing was more of an afterthought. It's also a principle of common sense. Look this continues to go back to you acting like it's 100% fact when it isn't. You know one screen doesn't prove anything logically. You have to know that. It's fine to think that the phantom isn't an AT and that it is a part of Zelda's moveset, but its an absurd conclusion that it's her new down special and that Sheik is gone. I don't think that's impossible, but you seem to think it is impossible that it isn't true.

Why can you claim Sheik is popular without proof, but I can't bring something which is far more close to any truth?

I didn't.

 

[Katy Parry]

You always apply scientific principles. The legal thing was more of an afterthought. It's also a principle of common sense. Look this continues to go back to you acting like it's 100% fact when it isn't. You know one screen doesn't prove anything logically. You have to know that. It's fine to think that the phantom isn't an AT and that it is a part of Zelda's moveset, but its an absurd conclusion that it's her new down special and that Sheik is gone. I don't think that's impossible, but you seem to think it is impossible that it isn't true.


I didn't.

Completely agree.

 

[CardiganBoy]

Gimme dis or gimme death:

 

[Altais]

If the Phantom Knight does turn out to be Zelda's new downward special, I will not complain--if anything, it will give Zelda an advantage. At the same time, I doubt Sheik will be dropped. One screenshot got me thinking--perhaps the Zelda/Sheik transformation move could be executed via side taunt. This would certainly be a boon for both Zelda and Sheik, as it opens up room for a new special attack.

[Shrugs] That being said, I am just as clueless as everybody else on the matter. I guess we will find out eventually.

 

[Substitution]

And who said we apply the principles of science and justice here? You also remind me exactly why I hate the justice system.

Why can you claim Sheik is popular without proof, but I can't bring something which is far more close to any truth?

This is pure bias.

Yeah casuals don't care much about nerfs, but it's very, very easy to notice the changes between Melee Sheik and Brawl Sheik. NOTHING KILLS ANYMORE in Sheik's moveset anyway. Even the most casual of the most casual of Melee players would know that Melee Sheik's Forward Air was an extremely powerful move.

Even if Sheik is popular, you really think that holds any vallue? Mewtwo was cut from Brawl's roster, and right now he's the most popular suggestion. He was also massively popular pre-Melee, far more than Sheik. And far more important to Pokémon to as a whole, appearing in the most popular entries of the series as well. Now how exactly does Sheik compare to this?

Here's what I ask, why get rid of a unique character if only to replace her with a character that, from what you say, will play the exact same?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

This image has me very confused on the status of the Phantom Knight. As you can see in this screenshot, Zelda is making the same exact pose as the one with Phantom Knight, just from a different angle. But here, there's no Phantom Knight to be seen, or any indication if it appearing in front of her.
Maybe it's an Assist Trophy, maybe it's not. But this is just mind****ery at its best.

I think the Phantom Knight, if it is a move of hers, may have a similar characteristic that Wario's missing bike has in the current Smash - Can't be used if its on stage and not near Wario.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I don't think they are getting rid of Sheik outright, I believe Impa will replace Sheik....

 

[soviet prince]

I think it will end up being an AT but I am all for shiek being replaced by impa which is the most interesting zelda newcomer I can come up with.

 

[pitthekit]

I think it will end up being an AT but I am all for shiek being replaced by impa which is the most interesting zelda newcomer I can come up with.

Even more interesting than ghirahim?

 

[BlueSorrow]

Fox getting hit by a sword? Where have I seen this before?

My god...The Phantom Knight is Gray Fox!
But seriously that is actually a nice call back Sakurai had done where no one seem to have noticed and based on the similarity between the two images the Phantom Knight is implied to be a assist trophy but that is just my speculation on it.

 

[Substitution]

Fox getting hit by a sword? Where have I seen this before?

My god...The Phantom Knight is Gray Fox!
But seriously that is actually a nice call back Sakurai had done where no one seem to have noticed and based on the similarity between the two images the Phantom Knight is implied to be a assist trophy but that is just my speculation on it.

I never noticed. Huh.