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Phantom Knight will protect her from now on ^^

pitthekit

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look at this



It is literally the same exact pose as in the picture (albeit with a little more emotion in the Smash 4)
I see you changed your avatar to include the knight.... Is the knight a character to you? Do you not believe lord diddly Kongs facts? Fufufufufuf.


I think you want to get banned ;)

I see your reverse psychology :p



Shots fired. Watch him report you now :p
He is from Brazil he prob does not understand English . Lol in this forum you message count=respect so I am treated like a 3rd world citizen
 

GuyWithTheFace

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look at this



It is literally the same exact pose as in the picture (albeit with a little more emotion in the Smash 4)
That pic looks like a "sieg heil." ...Tell me I'm not the only one thinking that.
 

XStarWarriorX

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I see you changed your avatar to include the knight.... Is the knight a character to you? Do you not believe lord diddly Kongs facts? Fufufufufuf.



He is from Brazil he prob does not understand English . Lol in this forum you message count=respect so I am treated like a 3rd world citizen
He does, and I don't treat people that way, I always say hi to everyone even though they're like in their minds.... "I don't care". So hai.

look at this



It is literally the same exact pose as in the picture (albeit with a little more emotion in the Smash 4)
Yes I see it, its not exactly identical, as I can tell I can see her being more horizontal with an open palm then what the brawl pic is. A slighted titled wave, and I don't get why this taunt needs an anger emotion. So no... the smash 4 pic isn't a taunt.

However this still does not rule out an AT, we'll just wait and see.
 

TopTierPichu

Smash Ace
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you are, can we get back on topic, now that we know it is just an altered taunt

I see you changed your avatar to include the knight.... Is the knight a character to you? Do you not believe lord diddly Kongs facts? Fufufufufuf.
actually it is because spirit tracks was my first zelda game
 

TheTuninator

Smash Champion
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Messages
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It's not the same pose. Zelda's arm is raised much higher in her Brawl wave, while she's throwing out her hand straight forward in anger in the SSB4 screens.

The angered pose just doesn't make any sense for a wave taunt. Characters act cocky in their taunts, not angry.
 

ToothiestAura

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Focusing on old images doesn't really help us much. But these two Zelda poses from her update seem very similar, as if they are from different spots in the same animation.




As you can see, the pose in the second pic is very similar (the main difference being her left arm is less bent) to the infamous phantom pic. Even the facial expression is the same. The poses are clearly part of the same animation, with the second pose being only a few frames after the first.

Still thinking it's an AT here.
 

TopTierPichu

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Focusing on old images doesn't really help us much. But these two Zelda poses from her update seem very similar, as if they are from different spots in the same animation.




As you can see, the pose in the second pic is very similar (the main difference being her left arm is less bent) to the infamous phantom pic. Even the facial expression is the same. The poses are clearly part of the same animation, with the second pose being only a few frames after the first.

Still thinking it's an AT here.

was there any doubt? but we will not be able to hold Impa's funeral until later since sakurai is on break
 

Sharkarat

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That's your opinion, though. Your first sentence I mean. My point still stands valid. Zelda characters are the only ones with different reincarnations. Its been represented in EVERY smash game that Zelda characters WHEN FIRST INTRODUCED have an appearance and moveset that reflects a distinct Zelda title.

In Smash 4 they are still basing off the realisitic look.

Ganondorfs moveset changed because he was a clone character. But Sheik is another SMASH veteran that is a representative for that game.

To me, its the same as Peach being in again. She's just a veteran for Smash now, so is Sheik.
Just to make it clear, I never argued against Sheik, I just argued for Phantom being part of zelda.
 

Vintage Creep

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Is Diddy so eager to have Sheik cut to believe something as non-sensible as this?
Even if Sheik was indeed cut (it's not) that wouldn't automatically mean that Impa was part of the roster LOL
I have no proof to demonstrate that Sheik is in the game and that picture doesn't mean anything, except my common sense.
I know that this board lacks a lot of it, but come on.
 

Spire

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While there is zero proof of this, I would like to speak conjecture:

The Phantom was introduced as part of Zelda's initial 10 screenshots because it may be part of her moveset. The Phantom is iconic to the series for representing the first playable excursion with Zelda; had her spirit inhabited the suit of armor, it would have glowing pink eyes, but this is not the case. Phantoms can appear and vanish in a second, so it's not farfetched to assume Zelda, a canonical controller of Phantoms, can summon them. The delineation between Link and "Toon" Link is for the sake of having two different Links. The Phantom was introduced in, and pertains solely to Toon Zelda. Because the revealing of the Phantom has not also revealed the [now less likely] newcomer "Toon Zelda", her chances of appearing are extremely slim. I feel this is because the Smash team considers all Princess Zeldas, regardless of depicted art style, to be congruent.

Is it so remote a concept that Twilight Zelda could display abilities introduced by other incarnations of the princess across the series? As far as canon goes, Sheik is only relevant to Ocarina of Time Zelda. Tetra is only relevant to Wind Waker/Phantom Hourglass Zelda. The Phantom is only relevant to Spirit Tracks Zelda. Yet, Twilight Zelda (as our Smash Bros. version appears) transformed into Sheik in Brawl, a trait belonging only to her predecessor Ocarina Zelda. Sheik may very well return for a second appropriated outing with Twilight Zelda in SSB4. Why is it farfetched to assume The Phantom may become part of Twilight Zelda's moveset as well? Because it's from a "toon" game? The art style is irrelevant. That said, I feel Toon Link could/should have been called Young Link.

My argument is not in favor of Impa at all. That is a related, but distant conversation piece that has no true merit yet. This is not the time to discuss Impa for we've no evidence to suggest she'll be in the game. While I favor her inclusion over Sheik, we should really only discuss Zelda and the Sheik potential for SSB4 until further notice.

The discrepancy between Zelda's angry "beckoning" pose in the discussed two screenshots: The Phantom/Fox and Link/Peach is a curious point. There's not enough available information to draw conclusions, but considering the fervor in Zelda's facial expression, it appears to be an attack of sorts, not a taunt. It appears that her hand gesture is portrayed in a 'commanding' demeanor, as if she's issuing her Phantom defender to attack. I will repeat: Phantoms can be summoned from the ether. It is possible in the Link/Peach screenshot that the animation frame was caught prior to the summoning of the Phantom—or even less likely, that the Phantom was summoned at a greater distance beyond the view of Link and Peach.

The truth is, Sakurai and co. could choose anyone for the role of Assist Trophy. Phantom Zelda is an assistant to Link in Spirit Tracks, so it is a somewhat fitting AT. The concept was introduced in 2009, a year and a half after Brawl was released and far beyond the development of the game to include any such idea. The series that Smash Bros. sources change over the years and The Legend of Zelda has done some neat things with its Princess since. The Phantoms in Phantom Hourglass were mere enemies, while in Spirit Tracks Zelda's spirit was able to possess them to help Link. Because she had dominance over their stature, she may very well possess a new ability to summon them in SSB4. To note: while playing Spirit Tracks, you could draw a line from Phantom Zelda's location on-map to Link's and she would warp to his aide. You could summon the phantom.

In PH and ST, when Link is spotted by observers, Phantoms would appear near and begin pursuing him. In some cases, they could appear in his immediate vicinity and without quick evasion, would slash and kill the hero in 1-2 seconds. One of the key characteristics of Phantoms are the ability to appear and attack quickly.

As mentioned before, this Phantom attack appears similarly to Yuna's quick-summoning moveset from Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy wherein she, using her summoning staff, would attack on the fly with the likes of Ifrit, Ixion, Shiva, Valefor, and Bahamut depending on the executed move. These aeons would appear out of an instant rift in space, their top halves protruding from the hole to deal damage before disappearing as she moved away. Incorporating such an aspect into Zelda's moveset without taking over her conceptually would only EXPAND on her potential as a spacer.

We're all equally guilty of idiocy for assuming The Phantom is an attack or an Assist Trophy. There's no way to know right now.

My two cents on the potential.

Edit: There is the lack of the Phantom pic appearing as one of her listed specials on the Miiverse site. Not every characters' specials have been revealed, but where pics are appropriate they have. Sakurai's either holding out, or it's an AT.
 

Sharkarat

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The discrepancy between Zelda's angry "beckoning" pose in the discussed two screenshots: The Phantom/Fox and Link/Peach is a curious point. There's not enough available information to draw conclusions, but considering the fervor in Zelda's facial expression, it appears to be an attack of sorts, not a taunt. It appears that her hand gesture is portrayed in a 'commanding' demeanor, as if she's issuing her Phantom defender to attack. I will repeat: Phantoms can be summoned from the ether. It is possible in the Link/Peach screenshot that the animation frame was caught prior to the summoning of the Phantom—or even less likely, that the Phantom was summoned at a greater distance beyond the view of Link and Peach.
It could also potentially be a move for controling the Phantom, and if that's the case it wouldn't be hard to get it out of the picture.
Edit: There is the lack of the Phantom pic appearing as one of her listed specials on the Miiverse site. Not every characters' specials have been revealed, but where pics are appropriate they have. Sakurai's either holding out, or it's an AT.
Refering to the smashbros-miiverse.com site?
I Don't think it's official. Especially because of this:
SmashBros-Miiverse.com is in no way affiliated with Nintendo or any other mentioned companies.
 

Spire

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OH? I just discovered that site last night and figured, "oh, THIS is the new Dojo!" What a professional looking site nonetheless! In that case, there's no telling what the Phantom is. Thanks for clarifying Gibdo Knight :)
 

TheRealHeroOfWinds

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It is just an Assist Trophy -.-'
Only stages will be different in both games.
Assist Trophies will most likely be the same in both games.
 

ToothiestAura

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Now we wait 12 days till the Phantom Zelda debate cools down. :laugh:
I think we've pretty much said everything we can say on this matter. And no side is really being convinced to join the other, because we're stuck in our beliefs. I can really only see people repeating stuff that's already been said at this point.

I doubt Sakurai will even update about Zelda immediately upon his return. He's gonna **** with us more.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Hello everyone!
For my first post on Smashboards, and as a Zelda fan (the character, both in LoZ and SSB), I'd like to point out 3 facts that goes with the assist trophy idea. I'm not saying it IS an AT, thought.

1) Zelda pose really looks like her neutral-A, especially on the Mario Galaxy screen. She does attack with her palm like this in Melee and Brawl.
2) Toon Link also have a "realistic" look, on his clothings: http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/toon_link/screen-2.jpg It looks like the Knight simply have a metallic effect on it.
3) I have trouble imagining a Zelda summoning a Zelda. But it was said the knight doesn't have eyes, so who knows?

Here you go, 3 new things to debate!
 

Sharkarat

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Hello everyone!
For my first post on Smashboards, and as a Zelda fan (the character, both in LoZ and SSB), I'd like to point out 3 facts that goes with the assist trophy idea. I'm not saying it IS an AT, thought.

1) Zelda pose really looks like her neutral-A, especially on the Mario Galaxy screen. She does attack with her palm like this in Melee and Brawl.
2) Toon Link also have a "realistic" look, on his clothings: http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/toon_link/screen-2.jpg It looks like the Knight simply have a metallic effect on it.
3) I have trouble imagining a Zelda summoning a Zelda. But it was said the knight doesn't have eyes, so who knows?

Here you go, 3 new things to debate!
1) you right, they do look similar. This could point either way, since it could just mean that the Phantom works like Luma (attacks when you do).

2) This point only show that's it's possible for it to AT. I still think it would be truer to it's orginal design if it's an AT.

3) This is mostly opinions, so I don't see a reason to argue.
 

TheTuninator

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Hello everyone!
For my first post on Smashboards, and as a Zelda fan (the character, both in LoZ and SSB), I'd like to point out 3 facts that goes with the assist trophy idea. I'm not saying it IS an AT, thought.

1) Zelda pose really looks like her neutral-A, especially on the Mario Galaxy screen. She does attack with her palm like this in Melee and Brawl.
2) Toon Link also have a "realistic" look, on his clothings: http://www.smashbros.com/images/character/toon_link/screen-2.jpg It looks like the Knight simply have a metallic effect on it.
3) I have trouble imagining a Zelda summoning a Zelda. But it was said the knight doesn't have eyes, so who knows?

Here you go, 3 new things to debate!

I also doubt Zelda would summon a Zelda, but as this is Smash, Sakurai might well change the move to simply be Zelda summoning and remotely controlling a Phantom Knight.

1) you right, they do look similar. This could point either way, since it could just mean that the Phantom works like Luma (attacks when you do).

2) This point only show that's it's possible for it to AT. I still think it would be truer to it's orginal design if it's an AT.

The AT could easily be Phantom Knight Zelda, though. All bets are off until we get more information.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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For the second point I think it's still true to it's appearence. It's obvious, but like Skull Kid they can't export the model from the original game. As much as I like the "toon" art style, the number of details is quite poor, so I'm not surprise too see something with new details. I think Toon Link doesn't need a lot of new details (just the folds on the fabric, some added lines on the belt and you have Toon Link), but the Knight would not look that good if the round patterns were a simple texture, like in Spirit Tracks.

I do agree however that it's a big improvement of style, compared to Skull Kid for example.

I still think it's an assist trophy as I don't want Zelda to become some sort of Rosalina clone (wich would be Ironic, Zelda being around since Melee), and seeing how little the veterans have changed (only Bowser and Pit changed to look like their recent incarnation. Bowser still looked like Mario 64's Bowser in brawl! A bit at least. And I also don't think their playstyle changed in the end). I also like the idea that the Knight is an assist trophy that protect the character for a time.

The only thing we can be sure for now is that Sakurai is a big troll for putting the most mysterious image on the website yet not giving informations and not uptading it until January 6 :troll:
 

Sharkarat

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I'm fully aware that the Phantom might be an AT. I just disagree with most of the arguments pointing towards that.
The only thing we can be sure for now is that Sakurai is a big troll for putting the most mysterious image on the website yet not giving informations and not uptading it until January 6 :troll:
This part however is something I agree with.
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Of course, I'm not saying I'm right and that you are wrong!

Every arguments / counter-arguments for the knight to be an AT or not can't be precise, by the way. We can only debate on two pictures for that. But I would be dissapointed if the gameplay I use since the release of Melee changed. At first at least. If it is an attack, it can also be great! But I have trouble imagining some Toon elements merging with the "classic" elements.

It also seems perfect to me to see the spirit of toon Zelda going into the armor when summoning it as an AT!
 

Norm

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I was gonna say that the phantom is an assist trophy but after looking at the Miiverse webpage he's not listed as an assist trophy under the items tab so now I'm not so sure. Either way it's a cool addition.
 

GuyWithTheFace

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I was gonna say that the phantom is an assist trophy but after looking at the Miiverse webpage he's not listed as an assist trophy under the items tab so now I'm not so sure. Either way it's a cool addition.
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/itemsThis site? It's a fan site. "SmashBros-Miiverse.com is in no way affiliated with Nintendo or any other mentioned companies."
 

Erotic&Heretic

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Ah yes, someone showed me that once.
"SmashBros-Miiverse.com is in no way affiliated with Nintendo or any other mentioned companies."
 

TopTierPichu

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I was gonna say that the phantom is an assist trophy but after looking at the Miiverse webpage he's not listed as an assist trophy under the items tab so now I'm not so sure. Either way it's a cool addition.
neither is anything else relating to zelda on that page
 

Norm

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http://smashbros-miiverse.com/itemsThis site? It's a fan site. "SmashBros-Miiverse.com is in no way affiliated with Nintendo or any other mentioned companies."

Really? Wow. Well it had me fooled lol. It looked fairly official, oh well never mind then I withdraw my original opinion then hehe. And fall back on my it's probably an assist trophy opinion.
 

GuyWithTheFace

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Really? Wow. Well it had me fooled lol. It looked fairly official, oh well never mind then I withdraw my original opinion then hehe. And fall back on my it's probably an assist trophy opinion.
I gotta hand it to 'em, it is quite a well done site. I'd have gone with official too if I hadn't seen the little disclaimer.
 

Bajef8

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I hate how Arcadenik said Impa would "replace" Sheik akin to the Young Link/Toon Link switch.

That is so idiotic, no offense.
A) Toon Link is literally just a change in art style. Young and Toon Link both represent the child Link
B) Impa is not Sheik! They aren't the same person!
C) Sheik IS Zelda! Zelda IS Sheik! Why would Sakurai axe the original transformation-type character?
D) Impa is the Toad of Zelda, she ain't getting in. She's a supporting character who wouldn't get in. AT at best.

Sheik is returning most likely. Chill out people. This is the exact same as pre-Brawl and guess who returned still? Sheik.
 

Ghirahilda

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He is from Brazil he prob does not understand English . Lol in this forum you message count=respect so I am treated like a 3rd world citizen
Então já que você é "super" inteligente, tente ler isso sem usar Google tradutor! Sua linguagem é a mais fácil de aprender! A minha é muito mais complicada! E essa sua frase: "ser" tratada como pessoa do terceiro mundo, é uma referência por eu ser brasileiro??? Você está pensando que você é melhor que nós???
 

Diddy Kong

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People are really gonna be mad when Phantom is actually gonna be Zelda's Down B, and Sheik is gone.
 

Substitution

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What if it acts like a Waddle Dee?
(Attacking when close to someone else, but having independent AI.)
 

Diddy Kong

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Well, it would be certainly justified. Majority of people don't like seeing characters gone.
It won't be nearly as bad as Mewtwo's removal though. Am guessing it'll be closer to the removal of Roy for the western fanbase.
What if it acts like a Waddle Dee?
(Attacking when close to someone else, but having independent AI.)
This could easily happen to. And haven't actually thought about it! It could be a mixture of both the Waddle Dee and Lumas though.
 

Frostwraith

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It won't be nearly as bad as Mewtwo's removal though. Am guessing it'll be closer to the removal of Roy for the western fanbase.
Well, Sheik has her share of popularity within the Smash and Nintendo fanbases. After all, the company seems to recognize that, if the outfits in Tekken Tag Tournament 2 or the cameo in Scribblenauts Unlimited are any indication.

Sure, Sheik may have only appeared in Ocarina of Time, but she happens to be a well-known character, even if thanks to Smash. You could say the exact same thing about Roy, who also has only one major role throughout the franchise, yet is a well-known character, mainly thanks to Smash. Hell, you could almost say that about Captain Falcon!
 

Diddy Kong

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Dr.Mario and Pichu to, but that doesn't mean they should be back however...
 

Frostwraith

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Dr.Mario and Pichu to, but that doesn't mean they should be back however...
I don't think Dr. Mario and Pichu have the same level of popularity as Sheik. The backslash regarding their removal wasn't as big as the backslash caused by Mewtwo and Roy being removed.

I believe that, if Sheik was removed, there would be a strong backslash, though not as strong as Mewtwo, obviously. I'd say more on the same level as Roy. I think Lucas, Ike and Lucario being removed would cause backslash too.
 

Diddy Kong

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Lucas, Ike and Lucario have massive huge popularity. They are all far more important than Sheik all around to. And I certainly hope they all stay.
 
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