Social PGD4: I changed the title.

[Exceladon City]

Angiance Considering that I used to main Rocket Raccoon in UMVC3, and I am going back to being a Sonic main, I think I know a thing or two about complex characters. Pikachu, fundamentally speaking, is no more difficult to play than Mario. The difference lies in how immersive you want to be with the characters; Mario isn't going to get anymore complex than learning frame traps and new hit confirms. Pikachu has a toolbox full of things you can use for a number of situations. I picked up Pikachu because I mained him in the demo and I actually enjoy how he plays in this game, as opposed to Brawl. So, I'm more than aware of the learning curve. Hell, I play Shulk and Robin for fun because they're technically proficient characters. It's all about dedication to the cause.

 

[Angiance]

So...you preeetty much just paraphrased what I've been saying already hahaha

 

[Soul.]

All these posts lol.

I love this thread.

 

[Exceladon City]

So...you preeetty much just paraphrased what I've been saying already hahaha

I was just responding to what you said to me earlier. I didn't care enough to read the rest of the thread. Any rate, I play Pikachu. I'll be periodically lurking around here gathering knowledge.

 

[~Radiance~]

That's pretty cool belle, radiance is an important name to me.

I think uair can be useful but I agree with the notion that utilt Is just a better anti air and utility move, and spaced fair is a better spacing option. Yea you can frame trap but people will know it's gonna auto cancel. A good frame trap needs to appear laggy, like fh ff bair or Ganon usmash

 

[Exceladon City]

I've been messing around with RAR Uair spacing. Not bad for baiting shields and the occasional QA mix-up.

 

[~Radiance~]

I just miss brawl uair, it's hitbox was large enough under him that it was a reliable rar/oos option that put your opponent at the optimal angle to qal/nair

 

[Soul.]

I miss Brawl nair for the most part. If we had that we'd probably be broken but who cares lol it's Pikachu.

 

[~Radiance~]

Oh man brawl nair how I miss thee. I'd love for pika to have an aerial that kills lol

 

[Soul.]

At least us not KOing early means less bandwagoners lol. Bandwagon sucks.

 

[~Radiance~]

Yea lol reminds me of brawl. Everyone would see qac and be like omg I wana main pika, then they'd see he took more practice than mk and they'd all leave in a week. Happened so often lol

Tbh right now there aren't many characters that are just super easy to pick up that have low skill cap high reward right now. Luigi sucks now, shiek requires practice like pika, and diddy isn't op anymore. We are much closer to that point where seasoned players won't lose new op characters.

 

[Geoberos]

Not from what I've been reading. Someone's been glorifying U-Air and it's properties like it's a god damn Acerus gift to a Weedle-infested Viridian forest where as everyone else has been providing alternatives, being more to RELYING on frame traps and such.

That are I'm just getting a headache from all this stubborness. PGD3 all over again. But what the hell do I know, I don't lab, I don't theorize. I'm just reading based off reactionary context. Not that I have to sit through a multitude of a single Pikachu player every time I edit tourney matches where he only use U-Air was about 10~15% of the time.

 

[~Radiance~]

Lmao hey Beros it's FZ. Yea there has been quite a tangent here in regards to glorifying uair. Def not the first time I've heard belle argue something to death and won't be the last, but that's where saviors come in (obligatory ff13 lightning reference because obsession)

 

[Soul.]

I don't think Luigi sucks but he's certainly not stupid as he was before. A very polarizing character in previous versions, yes, that much is true. Our MU vs. him has improved thanks to the dthrow changes; might be even or in our favor now idk. Still better than most of the cast though.

...how was Pika vs. Luigi in Brawl?

 

[~Radiance~]

Luigi was really our only mu that was hard due to us both breaking and dealing combos well, only that Luigi had kill confirm out of his throws and ours was much more situational. Now it's most likely in our favor

In brawl Luigi was about 55:45 luigid favor but felt a lot harder because he could just nair out of everything we had and pika relied on strings a lot in brawl and Luigi just said no to that lol. You could just read nair and stutter step fsmash but he just locked out most
Of our combo game

 

[Geoberos]

Hell yeah FZ, I remember you made the change to Radiance was back in pre/early Smash 4 days.
Hence my reason for poppin' out of lurking to cause some ruckus with the old thread posse upped and moved away.
I couldn't pick up Prime for our city's weekly so I have no input on viewing 1.1.1 Pika, but there was heavy salt from one player because we left Diddy unbanned despite only having 1 okay-decent and less-than-mediocre Diddy among dozens of other players.

 

[~Radiance~]

Eyyyyyy lmao the beros in the house. Yea the radiance dream is real. I personally think pika has benefited a lot by shield changes, it's really nice. And haha that player should stay salty since diddy is nowhere near as op as he was before, he should be happy it's not prepatch diddy

 

[Coro_]

Say, did Pika fair always beat Villager slingshot, or is that new?
I just blew through a slingshot rock in FG

 

[Underhill]

Luigi was really our only mu that was hard due to us both breaking and dealing combos well, only that Luigi had kill confirm out of his throws and ours was much more situational. Now it's most likely in our favor

In brawl Luigi was about 55:45 luigid favor but felt a lot harder because he could just nair out of everything we had and pika relied on strings a lot in brawl and Luigi just said no to that lol. You could just read nair and stutter step fsmash but he just locked out most
Of our combo game

On Smash 4, don't speak too soon. Give Luigi players time on tournaments.

On Brawl, I always thought that the MU is in Pikachu's favor, but slighty though. Better Edgeguarding, camping with jolts, taking advantage of Luigi's traction by baiting shields with QA, aerials(spaced), and jolts. Also, Luigi's bad air speed as well.

 

[Noro~]

Since Fair is slightly disjointed and aerials don't 'cling' (neutralize each other, is there an official name for that?) like grounded moves do, i'd assume so. Sadly I updated my console just a few hours ago so I can't say for sure.

 

[Exceladon City]

I think Luigi sucks more than people think he does. Due to the shield changes, he won't be able to punish things as easily, as well as his lack of traction being a huge factor. He doesn't setup into kills very easily outside of his old bnb. Fireball be damned, he won't be able to get much out of grabs at higher percents. Unless he gets Shoryu setups at mid-high percents, he's essentially Brawl Luigi. Pika, on the other hand, is going to have a field day with shield pressure.

 

[pikazz]

trained with Pikachu now the whole day and its gotten better 'w' but I still accentaly use NAir to "Zone" instead of FAir cause of Lucas having his Multihitter on NAir D: xD

one questiont tho, without Upthrow->Thunder on read DI and UpSmash. whats kill moves/Kill Setup do Pikachu have possession over?

 

[Coro_]

> kill setups
> pikachu
pffthahaha

he pretty much doesn't have any =w=;

 

[~Radiance~]

Basically usmash oos on punish, fsmash on roll reads, and uthrow at like 180 lol. Basically you want to gimp and punish landings to kill, you have to read to kill with pika mostly

 

[Coro_]

Does anyone else here feel awfully inconsistent with Pikachu? For me it's like one training session I can be doing all sorts of crazy combos and kill reads and perfect spacing, and the next session I get caught on every single landing and thrown all over the place. Is this normal? =w=;

 

[Noro~]

Killmoves are:
Upsmash, Fsmash (sweetspot), Thunder. Dair kills pretty late (onstage at least ~140%). As a last resort, Upthrow kills at 160-180%, depending on the stage.

Killconfirms:
Lie down > try not to cry > cry alot
Aside from the mentioned Upthrow > Thunder, you can ledgetrump your opponent and hit him on his regrab with either Fsmash (few characters), Upsmash (most, but really hard to hit on some) or Thunder (the hitbox around Pikachu, works on every character afaik).
Instead of Upthrow, you can use Downthrow > Thunder. If you see him DIing towards you on your Upthrows, you can mix in a Downthrow, which will cause him to be launched perfectly vertical.

Pika gets many of his kills through edgeguarding. Don't be scared to go offstage against most characters. QA can get you back onstage from just about everywhere (just don't run off and fast fall bair, thats a guaranteed SD)

 

[Gibbs]

Does anyone else here feel awfully inconsistent with Pikachu? For me it's like one training session I can be doing all sorts of crazy combos and kill reads and perfect spacing, and the next session I get caught on every single landing and thrown all over the place. Is this normal? =w=;

If I don't have at least 3 hours of warm up with pika within 24hrs of a tourney my pika becomes hot garbage and I can lose to absolutely anyone. However if I'm well rested and warm, I can get wins on lots of strong players in my region.

Also I feel like pika has to adjust play style much more than other top tiers depending on the matchup, so unfamiliar matchups can hurt us more than say, luigi or zss mains.

 

[Noro~]

Does anyone else here feel awfully inconsistent with Pikachu? For me it's like one training session I can be doing all sorts of crazy combos and kill reads and perfect spacing, and the next session I get caught on every single landing and thrown all over the place. Is this normal? =w=;

Man, I can totally relate to this. For me, it's the longer I play, the worse I get. Mostly because I have a hard time mixing up my approaches/recoveries unless I'm 100% focused.
Usually a character reset is what helps me. I just try to play another Character for one game to reset my mindset.

 

[Soul.]

We don't have true kill setups. Up throw to Thunder is the closest thing we have to one. It's still good despite having to do DI guessing games tho

Edgeguarding is one of the best ways to take stocks with Pikachu since it can go deep and still come back. If you're near the blast zone of a stage (say Smashville) FAir can KO. Forward smash kills but most use it to space since it's a lot safer than up smash.

 

[Angiance]

That's pretty cool belle, radiance is an important name to me.

I think uair can be useful but I agree with the notion that utilt Is just a better anti air and utility move, and spaced fair is a better spacing option. Yea you can frame trap but people will know it's gonna auto cancel. A good frame trap needs to appear laggy, like fh ff bair or Ganon usmash

Funny because U.Tilt is actually the third and final part of my zoning technique

 

[~Radiance~]

If anyone is having trouble being consistent here's some helpful advice that may go against what you think. Projectiles just got safer on shield due to the changes, so if your opponent can not out camp you don't approach, just camp jolts. Yea it can be seen as lame, but if they must approach you why would you go to them? If a character must approach you, force them to, this way you can rack up damage if they choose not to and can later close the kill

 

[Noro~]

Thanks for the advice. Being patient is something I tend to forget. I'm way too hyper offensive sometimes.

I'm really excited for my next local tournament this weekend due to the patch. With all of our electric attacks being much safer on shield being hyper offensive essentially got buffed alot. Still gonna keep that campy playstyle in mind tho.

 

[iVoltage]

If anyone is having trouble being consistent here's some helpful advice that may go against what you think. Projectiles just got safer on shield due to the changes, so if your opponent can not out camp you don't approach, just camp jolts. Yea it can be seen as lame, but if they must approach you why would you go to them? If a character must approach you, force them to, this way you can rack up damage if they choose not to and can later close the kill

Honestly if they sheild jolt now it leads into grab easier, pretty much you have to perfect shield everything now.

 

[~Radiance~]

yea the stun will def help us. I tend to play MU's one of two ways depending on character: If the character cant outcamp me i camp jolts to force approaches and then go in OR if they are fast on the ground and i cant get around them, I will camp if they cannot outcamp me. If they are better at camping we are somewhat forced to approach such as villager. Its important imo to patient since patience for us will help a ton given that we die early and also cant kill early outside of gimps. Going in hard can also be really effective, but its better to frustrate/put your opponent on tilt and then follow up with strings since they are going to make more mistakes which means we can capitalize on it hard

I realize i probably should upload replays here sometime since i talk a lot but am not really showing it in practice lol.

 

[Soul.]

its funny how in 1.1.0 a lot of people were pessimistic about Pikachu (especially the competitive boards), and now in 1.1.1 it's receiving a ton of love.

Pika, no longer the pessimistic mascot of Pokémon kappa

 

[iVoltage]

I was actually considering switching to yoshi, but i regret this thought now.

 

[~Radiance~]

Could always use yoshi as a secondary for MU's you dont like. I think pika has mostly positive MU's but there are certain MU's id rather go ganon for just because i dislike the MU. Yoshi is always gonna be good due to his multihitbox moves. In all honesty anyone with multihitbox moves now is going to be at least decent because shield stun is crazy.

I wouldn't say people were pessimistic tho Soul, in fact in my exp most people agree that he is an amazing character even before the last patch. He just cant kill as easily as the 5 top tiers who have kill throws, but since shields got nerfed its def not gonna be as easy to shield grab bthrow lol.

sorry for the harangue, continue please thread.

 

[iVoltage]

Could always use yoshi as a secondary for MU's you dont like. I think pika has mostly positive MU's but there are certain MU's id rather go ganon for just because i dislike the MU. Yoshi is always gonna be good due to his multihitbox moves. In all honesty anyone with multihitbox moves now is going to be at least decent because shield stun is crazy.

I wouldn't say people were pessimistic tho Soul, in fact in my exp most people agree that he is an amazing character even before the last patch. He just cant kill as easily as the 5 top tiers who have kill throws, but since shields got nerfed its def not gonna be as easy to shield grab bthrow lol.

sorry for the harangue, continue please thread.

It was more because it would be an easy transition. Yoshi is a very similar character to pikachu but with an easier time killing in exchange for some mobility and combo ability (yoshi has combos tho) What really drew me to him was his nair and jab being literally rediculous, and just how satisfying it will always be to hit confirm egg > fair for a sick spike.

 

[~Radiance~]

It was more because it would be an easy transition. Yoshi is a very similar character to pikachu but with an easier time killing in exchange for some mobility and combo ability (yoshi has combos tho) What really drew me to him was his nair and jab being literally rediculous, and just how satisfying it will always be to hit confirm egg > fair for a sick spike.

yea I can see that being true. Yoshi also has a lot of good potential in his jab and does have an easier time killing. I would argue that he is not as versatile and ungimpable as pika, so its def a trade off worth considering. Kill power for versatility and speed, hard to say whats the best choice but if he feels more like your style id say your answer is apparent.

 

[Soul.]

Oh I understand. The pessimism thing was more or less people looking down on it, considering it average compared to other top/high tiers. I felt like joking around with it by thinking the character was trash but it really isn't.

Also Radiance since you mentioned "bthrow" I would think Ness isn't a problem for us anymore. Before Ness was annoying as hell because of stupid shield grab into bthrow. Now we can worry less about them; I mean he's still annoying but now not as much.

on another note, the smash ballot is supposed to end on october 3rd lol. new character(s) hype!!