Social PGD4: I changed the title.

[Angiance]

Noooononononono....you see, thanks to DI varying angles and such, you have to constantly readjust yourself based on what is happening so that you avoid getting hit by a random Mario N.Air for example

And you can actually sh U.Air OoS Mario, Fox, Luigi and maybe some others.

You can even sh U.Air Kirby, though you have to be on top of him and frame perfect-it's still legitimate to do OoS sh U.Air regardless of the character because of the fact that many actions can raise the character's hurtbox high enough to get clipped by our U.Air and allow us to gain an advantage

 

[Coro_]

I feel like in that situation a crossup sh ac dair has a better risk/reward ratio compared to trying to clip with uair, but that's just me
I think aerial followups for everyone, not just pika, is based on opponents DI, hitbox interactions etc as well, so for those that don't true combo, it's really more intuition and observation than anything? That's what I think anyway...

 

[~Radiance~]

Uair oos is unreliable though, and i know for a fact it will not hit mario or luigi lol. If you start a string with say,utilt to uair, you will be able to get a bair in before a mario nair can contest though due to this game having more hitstun than in brawl, so there isnt really any need to readjust to their DI save when deciding what move to follow up with.

Yea coro you are right from my experiences. This game has more hitstun so when we get an utilt or dthrow its almsot always going to lead into a string. From what ive seen anything slower than frame 4 aerials like villagers nair for example we can usually get uairs/bairs if its a low percent combo. In the case that we predict after the throw/utilt that they will try and nair/aerial out of it we can simply charge fsmash and get a freebee. It's all mixups for sure, but for the most part we can follow up with their DI and they cant really contest us, since at worst we will trade with them in the air

 

[Angiance]

Please understand: in a spacing battle-a *heated* spacing battle, a LOT of re-adjustment is necessary. I'm not talking about clean hit comboes, I'm talking about razor sharp hits that need confirmation and readjustment and spacing resets and such and such...and yes, sh U.Air will hit Mario's hat, you just need to be close enough

 

[xBlitz]

why the hell would I up air when there are more relevant options, like grab, up smash, nair or auto cancel dair oos

 

[Angiance]

U.Air is LAGLESS

 

[Coro_]

Honestly, maneuvering like that in the air with a spacing battle feels more like knowing your air speed, your opponent's air speed, the physics engine, the range of your aerials and the opponent's aerials... which at that point with the spacing battle in the air in your example, will be both going by what's almost intuition. 'Oh, I just hit him with this uair juggle, but this Mario's DIing away from me and he'll probably go for a nair which reaches this far, I'll move a little to the left as I fall and nail them with another uair's disjoint' - see, you don't practice that specific scenario cause the odds are pretty rare and it's one scenario of a few, where the consequences are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. I guess if you grasp the physics and the movement of both characters, it'll come naturally what are the best options

xBlitz uair is heavily disjointed, extremely fast, has good range and leads to juggles, if you sh it near the ground you can see it almost hit in a circle around pika - in the right circumstances, it can be very useful, yeah

 

[~Radiance~]

After testing it yea it does appear that uair oos does work if you are really quick, def not as nice of a hitbox as in brawl but it can hit if you are really close. Can see that being useful OoS, though Nair is more reliable and given the trajectory of uair now wont necessarily lead into follow ups.

Still dont quite agree with the need for uair readjustments in "heated spacing" battles since you wont spacing uairs anyway. Im talking more about how uair is just not as precise since on hit confirm you simply evaluate their DI and either fair/bair if they are in range.

I like what Coro is saying. Its essentialy just that. In brawl it was a lot of "do what is confirmed and guaranteed" but in smash 4 it is almost all intuition and DI reading for strings. Pikachus only hitconfirm is fthrow -> dash attack at 0 with no rage, the rest is all intuition. I can see what you are saying Belle about uair being really efficient and quick, but I would still disagree that it is as complicated as you are making it out to be.

curious what you mean by lagless though. Do you mean in startup, in autocanceling it, or in the iasa frames for it. The move comes out frame 3 and autocancels on a short hop...but fair, dair, and nair also autocancel on a shorthop so not exactly aware of what that statement means.

 

[pikazz]

wow, lots of discourage.

however, when you learning a character by heart will make you remember them even if you havent played the character on a long time. its similiar to a expression "you will never forget to ride a bycicle". so that basically give you time to get good with a secondary/pocket without losing the skills of your main.

the time that actually takes the longest is when you are forcing yourself to play a character that doesnt already fit you. if it does fit you the training will be much faster and I have played pikachu somewhat for tests and I could say he fits me do some similiarites he has to Jr, almost the same UTilt and UAir strings, similiar spacing and stuff. the only 2 big difference between them is Pikachu has a awesome Projectile and the quirkness of QA

 

[Angiance]

Against the highest grade of players, you need to be ****ING LAG FREE, and U.Air is something that should be used as a main spacer because it is just that, ****ING LAG FREE

Hahaha x3

 

[Coro_]

At some point you'll be out of jumps and you'll need a finisher to your air string anyways, so fair/bair/nair comes in
Or you'll see them do something punishable like airdodge and you'll need a heavier hitter than uair, so...

@~Radiance~ uair's FAF is frame 27, the earliest of our aerials, I think that's what she means

 

[~Radiance~]

spacing with uair is not safe. It has almost no hitbox in front of pikachu, and fair autocancels and is multihitbox, in fact, fair is very safe on shield due to new changes to shieldstun. Uair is a great juggling tool and anti air when airborne, but aside from that it isnt really that amazing. like, ikes bair autocancels and is lagless, but you shouldnt just throw it out because it has no lag.

I would argue that utilt/fair are pikachus best moves, especially when they are so versatile and safe. Shoutouts to dtilt as well for giving us +1 frame advantage on shield now.

pikazz dont be discouraged, by no means should you take it as "drop bowow and main pika." Pika takes some tech, but put in some time and youll get results just fine. He is a great character with many tools, just be prepared to practice with him as much as you do bowow. I only said that you may as well main him because he has better MU's all around, but if you want him as a secondary I say go for it so you can handle those shieks and other MU's that may frustrate you.

 

[Angiance]

U.Air sets up disgusting frame traps and such, absolutely disgusting frame traps

Instant Auto Cancel U.Air into things is SUPER LAGLESS, like it's basically not even punishable

 

[~Radiance~]

but uair and fair can both be done and fast falled around the same time and still autocancel, so why would you use uair that has not hitbox in front of you when you could use fair as a frame trap to bait them then run in and grab? It just seems like you are making uair seem like its a lot better than it is, when a lot of the things about it in the instances you pose seem to be less than ideal, since fair in many cases is better for spacing.

 

[Coro_]

You'd have to be uncomfortably close to to hit a grounded opponent with uair though (assuming grounded and shielding if you're talking about frame traps), what if the opponent is also moving around doing things? Plus, I think the only ones where shaving your endlag down that much matters is against Sheik or Zamus...

 

[~Radiance~]

I think he has the right idea in terms of using a move that baits them to come in since it seems unsafe, which i suppose uair can do, but you could much better results by spacing a fair near the opponet then ffing it at the last second so it autocancels and then run in and grab for example. Frame traps by definition ware meant to make your opponet think you are vulnerable, which if spaced far enough away i can see someone thinking they can punish, but in general anyone who thinks a move pika throws out is going to have endlag probably will be losing to most of pikas shenanigans anyway lol.

also, why is it so hard for me to find a good resolution lightning avatar, i swear.

 

[Coro_]

@~Radiance~ Angiance's female, haha (she's made that point quite clear)
expect your Lightning pika soon~

 

[Angiance]

F.Air is actually my main zoner with U.Air being the second...here, I'll give you an example...

At the start of a match, I will walk forward a bit and then maybe sh at the opponent to and aim for a falling F.Air but I'll also have U.Air as a sort of anti air-so that way if I see the opponent sh in against me as well, I'll immediately know to land since they've now met the conditions for the very last frames of U.Air at the front of us...at the same time, they could rise back up in the air, but then I'll know to sh and then maybe do a retreating falling f.air and have a good amount of space in front of me thanks to the U.Air zone keeping me mentally aware of my spacing and what attack I can use, so I can like-be ready to D.Tilt/U.Tilt after landing with the retreating falling fair

 

[Coro_]

You did just say 'U.Air is something that should be used as a main spacer', but yeah, that's the typical intuition I was talking about, I guess~

 

[~Radiance~]

pretty much lol. complicated aerials and knowing how to play your character/assess a situation applies to every character in the game though, doesnt mean pika is super tech savy. I mained ganon when customs were a thing because custom ganon is the dream. Anyway, he is all about reading doing things such as that: auto cancel uairs and spacing in order to get a hard read. every character has to play smart to win, and those situations are universal, not just exclusive to pikachu.

 

[Coro_]

Methinks you just go a little overboard when explaining how good a move is, that's all~
Back there you were making it sound like uair was the end-all aerial for all your spacing needs, when clearly you don't play that way, haha

 

[Angiance]

Are you saying that Pikachu is easy to pick up and learn? It literally STRAINS MY HANDS just TRAINING with Pikachu, though it doesn't strain my hands nearly as bad as Melee Pikachu does hahahaha :3

And yes, I'm literally saying that U.Air is our second best attack

It is RIDICULOUSLY LAGLESS: frame 4; hits all around; beats like, every other hitbox for God knows what reason

 

[iVoltage]

I mean, uair is just a typical string that you follow opponents DI with. No angle of uair is ever going to guarantee an angle off reaction, and given that uair as an OoS option only works on tall characters now its much better to react accordingly on reaction and follow up with bair/fair depending on their DI. Fair I can see as being sorta complex, but its really just a matter of spacing autocanceled fair and ffing it into grabs/tilts. Idk, I feel like while pika is complex in that closing kills is not as easy and requires prediction he's really not that complex outside of that since anyone can utilt/dthrow into strings.

I feel the only difficult part about pikachu is really his quick attack. His moves are all pretty self explanatory, and sure you can find more \ better ways to use them, (this is the other hard part) but they are overall basic in their core uses.

 

[Coro_]

course not, you should know that by now haha
but some parts of pika's game are really not that complicated, his game's pretty tough to begin with already, so you don't need to overthink everything~

 

[Angiance]

Funny thing, Radiance: the name "Angiance" is a combo of two words; Angel, and Radiance

 

[Coro_]

btw isn't it super late over there for you guys XD

 

[iVoltage]

Funny thing, Radiance: the name "Angiance" is a combo of two words; Angel, and Radiance

When I try to pronounce it, its just too weird. Ayng-e-ance is how I'm wanting to say it
Edit reply Coro_ yes I just got off work its 4am lol

 

[Coro_]

I read it n-gee-ence haha

 

[Angiance]

It is pronounced: An-Jee-Ins

But that's just my musical artist name...call me, Rohzn or my real name, Alice

U.Air is extremely destructive, I suggest you all study it more

 

[Coro_]

Fair enough, we can always do with more labbing~
Ah, it's nice to have activity in the social thread XD

 

[iVoltage]

Honestly uair I only really use for juggling. Uptilt is better antiair, fair / dair are far better for approaching (upair's hitbox is too verticle to make it practical, same for oos options. It's good and I thing its one of his best aerials but using it in those ways is just begging for a punish.

 

[Angiance]

Then you just don't know HOW good it truly is. Learn how to use it and your Pikachu will be able to put out hitboxes like a Marvel player, I swear it...

U.Air alone is usless during the neutral since it only hits high...however...couple it as an assistant to F.Air (given it is your main zone) and you have a barrage of hitboxes to cover you since F.Air covers mid and low, and U.Air covers ALL OF THE STARS IN THE MOTHER FLUFFING HEAVENS (high, it covers literally EVERYTHING that is in the air)

These two together as a zone create an impenetrable destructive whirlwind of mad dancing hitboxes and the amount of frame traps granted thanks to this nasty, nasty combo zoning technique, dear God the frames traps are nightmare inducing

 

[Noro~]

Honestly uair I only really use for juggling. Uptilt is better antiair, fair / dair are far better for approaching (upair's hitbox is too verticle to make it practical, same for oos options. It's good and I thing its one of his best aerials but using it in those ways is just begging for a punish.

I mostly agree with this, although RAR Upair is a notable approach (if not overused). But with the shield stun increase, fair and dair propably are our safest approaches.

 

[Angiance]

D.Air is a horrible approach...it has zero horizontal range and it's startup and landing lag are RIDICULOUS, so once you perform D.Air you have to wait through the entire action-this means that the opponent can notice you're doing something and they'll readjust themself while you will be unable to readjust *yourself* based on *the opponent's* readjustment, since you can't fastfall it like you can with fair thanks to it's mild landing lag-but also, it's lack of horizontal range means that the opponent doesn't even have to counter it per say; the opponent can simply use the entire animation of D.Air to gain stage over you and then you're screwed harder than that guy who dropped the soap cause of the fact that Pikachu's main attacks require him to have a good amount of space thanks to their long startup

 

[Coro_]

Many players (like ESAM) use sh ac dair as a crossup on shield or to tech chase, it's an instant wall of electric hitboxes with the same almost lagless autocancel...
It's perfectly serviceable as shield pressure, practically one of the BnBs of Pika, so I dunno what you're on about

 

[Noro~]

Committing to Dair leaves you with two options. Autocancel it or land with it. Granted, I'm not sure how this will work with the new patch since people will be shielding less and movement is way more important now, but in the past you could mix up AC Dair and landing Dair, which of course throws out that second hitbox.

 

[Angiance]

I agree that it is a magificent mix up and a very good thing to use if it is setup of for...but to use it during the neutral raw, with no sort of frame advantage or frame trap? HELL NO, that's just asking for the opponent to get in your face and make you into a Pika Burger! D:

 

[Noro~]

These two together as a zone create an impenetrable destructive whirlwind of mad dancing hitboxes and the amount of frame traps granted thanks to this nasty, nasty combo zoning technique, dear God the frames traps are nightmare inducing

This description sounds damn gorgeous btw :D . Sadly I'm not quite sure I can believe that this is as good as you make it seem to be. I don't think there is any footage of anyone creating this 'whirlwind'

 

[Angiance]

It's a zoning technique, so it's not actual *visible*, really...

It is reaaaaaallllllyyyyy difficult to explain, and you all only believe physical evidence...I'll try and upload a ghetto recording of me using it when I can

 

[Noro~]

My problem is seeing how Upair helps creating an impenetrable wall, when the 'impenetrable' part already ends with the Fair. Many characters can just trade with the 1% loops (or the finisher, which still only does 3%).

That's a problem I run into alot, actually. Pikas inability to trade with most of it's aerials.