Perfect Pivot, Foxtrotting, Dashdancing

[AshBoomstick]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhuHIFXrRhw&feature=youtu.be

Dash dancing alternative, Pivot dancing
Any move (tilts, smash, dash attack, specials) can be done out of pivot dancing
Tested only for a couple of hours today, much better use possible with practice
Some characters have better pivot dancing then others
Slower and more defensive then dash dancing
Must be used more sparingly then dash dancing
You will not use as often as I do in video
Used too often will result in punish
A more defensive option to mix up attacks
May be able to be done quicker on Gamecube controller

Let me know what you all think about how else this can be used! Hit me up on youtubehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUEBwthcpWBTQXscn8bpS6Qor on 3ds for a match! Friend code (2809 7728 1923)


PIVOT DANCING alternative to DASH DANCING??

 

[CosmicFuzz]

It's a shame it only works for certain characters extremely well instead of every character. I recall the Villager having great Pivot movement.

 

[Joe73191]

Dash options out of it are too slow, so you can't lengthen or shorten the range on the pivot dance to increase its utility. It is too easily punished and it merely looks like it is trying to be something that it is not.

 

[DarkDeity15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhuHIFXrRhw&feature=youtu.be

Dash dancing alternative, Pivot dancing
Any move (tilts, smash, dash attack, specials) can be done out of pivot dancing
Tested only for a couple of hours today, much better use possible with practice
Some characters have better pivot dancing then others
Slower and more defensive then dash dancing
Must be used more sparingly then dash dancing
You will not use as often as I do in video
Used too often will result in punish
A more defensive option to mix up attacks
May be able to be done quicker on Gamecube controller

Let me know what you all think about how else this can be used! Hit me up on youtubehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUEBwthcpWBTQXscn8bpS6Qor on 3ds for a match! Friend code (2809 7728 1923)


PIVOT DANCING alternative to DASH DANCING??

All this does is leave you wide open for punishment and it isn't anywhere near being an alternative to Dash Dance due to it being so slow. Compare that to dash dancing in Melee an PM and you'll see where I'm getting at. I'm sorry to say this, but this tech may not be good for anything.

 

[Balgorxz]

might have some really good uses if not spammed specially to punish people that abuse rolling since the distance it's similar to a roll, most of the people won't use it because isn't exactly like muh wavedash.
oh well we will know when the full version and the GC controllers are here.

 

[Yoki]

I assume a different thread got merged with this one, but in case anyone was wondering, this is completely different from the techniques described in the OP.

 

[LiamMail]

and that's how u break your circle pad

 

[Remzi]

Linking pivot dashes to emulate a dash dance is going to be a much stronger option in this game than it was in Brawl for a few reasons. No trippping is the obvious one. But whats really going to make this dash-dance like is the fact that your foxtrot window for every character is HUGE, and starts EARLY.

This means that there can be a very wide variance between your opposing dashes. The only thing that can stop players from "Melee Dashdancing" in this game is honestly the speed of your fingers.

 

[Empyrean]

Someone made a video on perfect pivots and how to do them. Found it and reddit and figured I'd post it here,

Credit goes to sakon14 on youtube

As for the technique itself, it looks highly interesting and promising, imo.

 

[adlp]

>pivotal in the metagame

nice

 

[Signia]

All this does is leave you wide open for punishment and it isn't anywhere near being an alternative to Dash Dance due to it being so slow. Compare that to dash dancing in Melee an PM and you'll see where I'm getting at. I'm sorry to say this guys, but this tech may not be good for anything.

You can shield at any point during the perfect pivot. It's even safer than wavedashing was in Melee.

 

[DarkDeity15]

You can shield at any point during the perfect pivot. It's even safer than wavedashing was in Melee.

Oh. I was talking about pivot dashing as shown by AshBoomstick lol. Perfect Pivot looks legit. Is it still character dependent though?

 

[Signia]

Oh. I was talking about pivot dashing as shown by AshBoomstick lol. Perfect Pivot looks legit. Is it still character dependent though?

Oh. Yeah, running back and forth is a terrible idea due to the length of the turnaround animation, where you can't shield. The tech where you can attack out of the turnaround animation is already known as the turnaround cancel. It's a useful technique, but it can't be used like a dash dance.

I think everyone can make use of the perfect pivot, unless some characters don't slide at all.

 

[Opana]

Dash Dancing returns in SSB4(Link)

Timing is strict, but it's doable.

I don't know if this was possible before, but in the Sonic clip I was able to move forward while DDing.

EDIT: Didn't see this thread, woops.

 

[EnthusedPanda]

I do it with Doc all the time. Why were people saying this was removed?

 

[KeketheBasedCat]

I imagine this will be tons easier on the gamecube controller

 

[DerpaDoo]

Most people reference melee dashdancing, but yes it is still in there.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

I thought we already knew this?

I experimented with a few characters doing the Melee DD method and some characters I found to have good DD's were Sonic, Mac, and Falcon. It also was hard to do on my CPad because I was scared of breaking the thing so....

wait for the GCC.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

DD's is the exact same way it was in brawl. except you can't trip now so I think it's viable again (on GC controller)

 

[KlefkiHolder]

DD's is the exact same way it was in brawl. except you can't trip now so I think it's viable again (on GC controller)

I don't know quite how it is in Brawl, but I was getting results just going left and right like I do in Melee. Granted, I needed to move a tad bit quicker than I do there, but part of that is the Circle Pad.

If anyone else would like to address this that would be great .

 

[Signia]

DD's is the exact same way it was in brawl. except you can't trip now so I think it's viable again (on GC controller)

There are three main uses of dash dancing:

1. Weaving in and out of enemy attack range to bait a whiff
2. Dashing out of range on reaction to an attack and dashing back in to whiff-punish
   
3. Making them think that you will come toward them to bait a response
   
4. Disguising an approach by not guaranteeing that the start of a dash means they will come toward you.

The first two and the second two go hand-in-hand with each other, but with such a short initial dash, you can't use Smash 4's initial dash dancing for the 1 and 2, unless your spacing is immaculate. However, 1 and 2 can be done using the perfect pivot, with the 1 requiring a very fast thumb, but probably not possible to do constantly like you can with a wide dash dance. You can do 1 wider and more easily by mixing in foxtrotting, but you cannot shield during some parts of the dance that are foxtrots.

Might as well talk about wavedashing/landing uses too:

1. Actionable movement along the ground
2. Getting out of shield and away without having to roll
3. Changing direction during any movement, including a full run
4. Snapping to platforms
5. Getting onto the stage from the ledge with invincibility

1 is clearly doable with the pivot cancel, except it has no inactionable frames (wavedashing's jump startup + landing frames), and turns you around. Transitioning to tilts in the proper direction at the speed of a wave-tilt is slightly more challenging, since the inactionable period of wavedashing allows you to put the stick into a smash position to "buffer" a tilt direction without accidentally smashing. 2 is hardly necessary in Smash 4 and can sorta be done anyway by releasing shield and perfect pivoting away. 3 can't be done as quickly or sharply, and the fastest way to change directions during a full run is to skid cancel. If you want to be able to change directions in Smash 4, don't do a full run. 4 might be possible if Brawl's "platform canceling" is still in. The closest you can get to doing 5 is by doing the normal ledge getup which has very little vulnerability frames, and it's harder to get pushed off when shielding an attack by the edge.

So most of the important things can still be done, but you have to be more deliberate, precise, and consistent than before.

 

[B.A.M.]

people will get this down easily if not with 3ds then with the gamecube controller. This was literally the first thing i went to perform at Best Buy and SD Comic COn ( Im a Sonic main, so we abuse this stuff all the time). Glad someone is putting this out there. This is why I dont think people need to worry about the lack of the original dash dance or crouch cancelling runs because a) we have what nes386 coined in 2009 DDP or dash dance pivot which with the speed increase of Smash 4 is about as effective of a dash dance we need and most character run stop animations are significantly shorter this time around. In fact characters with crawls actually can perform a tech which is virtually the equivalent of crouch cancelling run. We still have true pivots and the absurdly easy pivot ftilts. So movement will drastically improve once the Wii U version drops.

Anyways glad to see so many people intrigued by this; unfortunately aside from a select few a ton of these techs laid dormant in Brawl until the later years. Hopefully this time around people will realize the benefits of these techs and will utilize them to make an enjoyable metagame.

For anyone curious about the brawl references:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fH89EJFSqY

Nes386: Learn how to dash dance pivot and true pivot

 

[Dark Lady]

Ugh, I teased the Robin boards about this, but I guess i'll release this here.

Foxtrot is really, really, really strong on a small group of characters.

Robin, Zelda, Ganondorf, Peach, Rosalina + Luma, and more can cancel their foxtrot into a foxtrot. You can literally just repeatedly tap your directional pad forward as fast as you can, and every tap will trot. And it's faster than their dashes. That, combined with all these neat dash dancing options, make their ground mobility and mind game a LOT stronger. Especially Robin, whose ground mobility hampers their trap specials.

I wanna call it... Insta-Trot

List of Characters that can Insta-Trot:
Robin
Zelda
Ganondorf
Rosalina and Luma
Peach
Donkey Kong
Wii Fit Trainer

 

[Empyrean]

Calling the same technique something else just because it's more efficient on some chars would be like calling fast rolls insta-rolls or something. It can become real confusing imo, specially since foxtrot is still what they're doing.

Nice to know that DK and Ganon have good foxtrots.

 

[Doval]

Calling the same technique something else just because it's more efficient on some chars would be like calling fast rolls insta-rolls or something. It can become real confusing imo, specially since foxtrot is still what they're doing.

Nice to know that DK and Ganon have good foxtrots.

Ganondorf stops from a full run very quickly, and he has a really short dash window before going into a run. I don't think constantly foxtrotting is particularly useful for him.

 

[Dark Lady]

Ganondorf stops from a full run very quickly, and he has a really short dash window before going into a run. I don't think constantly foxtrotting is particularly useful for him.

I don't know of it's usefulness on Ganon, as I don't play him. I just know that he has it.

Calling the same technique something else just because it's more efficient on some chars would be like calling fast rolls insta-rolls or something. It can become real confusing imo, specially since foxtrot is still what they're doing.

Nice to know that DK and Ganon have good foxtrots.

True, but saying 'x character has a really good foxtrot' doesn't connotate why it's good. I gave it a special name because only a few characters can do it, and it says in the title what makes their foxtrots unique. So I named it.
Think of some new player who doesn't get the difference with just 'foxtrot'. They'll just think 'oh hey, I tapped the control stick two times' it won't go anywhere, and they won't get why it's different.

 

[PingPongCop]

The people who say perfect pivoting is hard make me laugh XD
Not saying that it's easy, but its definitely not almost impossible.

But back on topic, I don't really see the usefulness of perfect pivoting. Is it mindgames, or something else? I think its way too quick to be some sort of mindgame trick. Is it a defensive or offensive tactic?

 

[Signia]

Is it a defensive or offensive tactic?

Either. This allows you to quickly move away from an attack while still being able to do anything, like dashing back in or doing an Fsmash. It also allows you adjust positioning from below when the opponent is in the air without committing. Combined with a tilt-turnaround afterward, it can allow you to move forward quickly in a short burst and do any action.

In theory it'll let you play less committal, faster, and more in control on the ground.

 

[PingPongCop]

Either. This allows you to quickly move away from an attack while still being able to do anything, like dashing back in or doing an Fsmash. It also allows you adjust positioning from below when the opponent is in the air without committing. Combined with a tilt-turnaround afterward, it can allow you to move forward quickly in a short burst and do any action.

In theory it'll let you play less committal, faster, and more in control on the ground.

Oh! Thanks so much, I understand it perfectly now. I'm still worried that performing it too much will break my Circle Pad tho.

 

[JCOnyx]

Ganondorf stops from a full run very quickly, and he has a really short dash window before going into a run. I don't think constantly foxtrotting is particularly useful for him.

Which other characters have really short skid animations (or whatever the stopping animation from a full run is called)? From what I can tell Charizard seems to have this quirk as well.

 

[Doval]

Which other characters have really short skid animations (or whatever the stopping animation from a full run is called)? From what I can tell Charizard seems to have this quirk as well.

Not really sure, but I believe it's tied to traction. Luigi took a really long time to stop from a run in previous games. I can't check right now but I bet Ganondorf slides very little when landing on slopes.

 

[Clbull]

and that's how u break your circle pad

Normal use could break that flimsy thing anyway...

 

[6thGodBillTrinnen]

I think all of these perfect pivot/foxtrotting variations are honestly gonna be a game changer for smash 4 when the wii u version comes out. I'm trying not to get toooo excited about all of it before it's actually been explored on wii u, but it looks like this tech is exactly what this game needs for offering movement options that are comparable to melee. It effectively accomplishes a lot of the same things that wavedashing did in that game. I mean all this stuff was in Brawl and Melee too, but in Melee wavedashing was used over these techs, and in Brawl they both didn't seem nearly as fast or lagless, and foxtrotting was too risky because of tripping. It's clear the Smash 4 engine has improved how this works, and in around 5-6 months from now, I feel like these AT's are gonna become standard for high level play. The wii u version is honestly looking like it has all the tools to become a pretty technical game, it's just that so far we've basically been playing a downgraded version of it due to incomplete controls and unavoidable local lag.

Dashing and running right now are pretty limited in terms of what ground actions you can perform out of it, and this tech will no doubt open up way more options across the board which will just make for a deeper competitive game. With foxtrotting, now you have all standing attack options available while moving, not to mention a safer (and maybe faster) way to move around the stage. And perfect pivotting allows players tomake minor spacing adjustments that laglessly transition into pivot tilts/grabs/smashes/whatever for more precise baits and punishes, which will allow for a significantly more complex footsie game. Although it can obviously be used both offensively and defensively, it will no doubt make the meta more aggressive, as it allows for a variety of non-committal options when approaching, which by nature will make approaching less risky. I'm not gonna jump the gun on dash dancing, as it might really only be useful for certain characters like Mac, but if it ends up being viable for most of the cast than that's just gonna be more freedom of movement and a deeper neutral game.

To say the least, I have very high hopes for where this tech will eventually help take this game. Nicer graphics will be aamazing and everything, but it's really a GC controller and what that will open up that I'm most excited for.

 

[ChampKing]

Honestly can't wait to properly utilise this. Movement on the 3DS is a pain.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

I noticed during KTAR XI that a few Diddys were Dashdancing. Maybe it'll become widespread?

 

[Signia]

After getting my hands on the game with a GC controller, Perfect Pivot is not as easy or usable as I thought. The slide distance just isn't very long. There's nothing stopping you from doing two or more of them, except, you know, physical limits. Doing them in quick succession is hard, and it's going to take some serious dedication to pull it off consistently.

 

[SigmaStrain]

It boils down to one thing: practice. I can pull it off consistently no problem and the pivot dash really lends itself to good spacing. With marth you can space extremely well using a pivot dash to f smash or a rear trot to f smash. You just need to get the timing down. These techniques are wonderful and really add a lot if offensive and defensive options.

Just practice. I've spent the last few days in training mode for hours at a time just getting it all down.

 

[hariooo]

Sounds like people who can press buttons quickly to do these exploits have an unfair advantage.

Oh wait sorry wrong game.

 

[Chewmuncher]

It boils down to one thing: practice. I can pull it off consistently no problem and the pivot dash really lends itself to good spacing. With marth you can space extremely well using a pivot dash to f smash or a rear trot to f smash. You just need to get the timing down. These techniques are wonderful and really add a lot if offensive and defensive options.

Just practice. I've spent the last few days in training mode for hours at a time just getting it all down.

Do you have any tips besides just practicing it? Like your thumb movement or anything? I've been doing it for a couple of hours too but can't get the hang of the perfect pivot down.

 

[Silic0n]

Sounds like people who can press buttons quickly to do these exploits have an unfair advantage.

Oh wait sorry wrong game.

None of these movements are even exploits.