Peach's Matchups In Chart 2.0

[z00ted]

What do you guys think about it?


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I hate it.

 

[z00ted]

This is how I currently feel our matchup spread is..


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Thoughts:

-Falco is without a doubt in my mind a -2 matchup. It's taken me a very long time to feel this way about him... but it's hard. His lasers shut down all of our aerial approaches, his reflector negates our turnips, and his jab really mess with our close combat. He's a much better character than Peach and the only thing he really has trouble with in this matchup is recovery and counterpicks. Peach has to play very smart to take a win off of a top level Falco. It's rough.

-Dedede is definitely a -1 matchup. His weight, flexibility offstage, and kill power prove this. He is also very adaptable to our counterpicks.

-Diddy is a -1 matchup. Too small, agile, and has legitimate options in penetrating through our air game. A very strong aerial move, and a better camp game. Overall, just a much better character than Peach.

-Game and Watch is even. I think Praxis has always thought that this matchup is even and I agree. Just watch your spacing while in kill percentages and you're golden. Game and Watch doesn't really have any moves that will send you in the air for a long period of time... so don't allow it to happen. Nair and bair can be troublesome.. but we can beat bair with nair out of shield or a grab. Peach's priority is what allows this matchup to be even. My playstyle is just holding a turnip at all times, then just hitting and running.

-Wolf I feel is even. We'll see if I still feel this way once I play all of them at APEX.

-Pikachu is +1. It may even be a +2, time will tell. Results show that Peach convincingly beats Pikachu. In the panel I argued for it to be even, but that was definitely a mistake. Peach has sooo many small things that give Pikachu trouble. He's not as hard as Wolf, ZSS, Ike, GnW, etc.

-Sonic is even. Don't really know what to say about this.. but I feel as though it's even and Espy does too.

-Ness is +1. Ness is not -2... he's much harder than Bowser, Mario, etc etc.

-Lucas is +1. I played Mekos and beat him, but he did not leave me with the impression that the matchup was -2.

-DK is +1. Like Bowser with a better spacing move, and more kill options. Just be safe at kill percentages and go crazy when he's at lower percents.

-ROB is +1. Similar to DK, except he has more kill options offstage and less onstage. Peach's priority hits ROB in some terrible blindspots too.

-Yoshi is +1. We argued about this for like three months in the Brawl Panel. If anyone wants to know why I feel it's +1, I'll just go back there and quote some stuff.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Why is Pika a 0? I only second Peach, but I don't see the even there even with my limited exposure.

 

[z00ted]

Well, Pikachus have a history of exaggerating matchups in their favor...

I also (for some odd reason) was pretty adamant about keeping the matchup at even when there was a lot of controversy in the Brawl Panel. All the Peach players were against my decision, and I am now too.

 

[Nordal]

Well, Pikachus have a history of exaggerating matchups in their favor...

The sheer irony in this statement is overwhelming considering it's coming from someone who uses Peach, despite it being completely true (yes, I realize I'm being a hypocrite since I use her too, I don't care).

From what I heard, both the pikachus and peaches were the most biased and hotheaded discussion groups (which is why lurking it on Trevonte's computer was so much fun).

The peach boards have an infamous history of beating players who don't know the matchup or beating players who are at an inferior level of play (shoutouts to Dark.Pch) to justify a matchup to either be even (need I quote old falco matchup discussions?) or in their advantage (lmao, fox discussions).

Just from reading that horrendous display you all called a matchup "discussion", it was clear that the peach mains refused to acknowledge that there was the distinct possibility that they were using bad arguments (beating the only competent pikachu who just so happens to suck vs peach).

It was also obvious that the pikachus were trying to argue something without any concrete evidence (no tournament results). Many of them tried even making arguments that made no sense and proved they don't know **** about Peach (shoutouts to ESAM saying double hit Bair/Nair was useless. Also hi ESAM, since I know you namesearch).

The point being, pikachu as a character is uncommon and good pikachus (aka only one) are even more of a rarity. It's an uncommon matchup that hasn't been practiced much outside of wifi and lacks substantial evidence to dictate anything.

It also doesn't help when the powerhouse peach changes his mind about matchups every other day (like marth being worse than metaknight one day to only -1 the next).

When someone else posts I'll put my matchup opinions down.

 

[z00ted]

I beat K Prime too tho

 

[Fuujin]

Just out of curiosity, how did the Zelda discussion go?
And who was it with?

 

[z00ted]

There wasn't even a Zelda discussion, it was just locked in as -2.

 

[Meru.]

That's probably the ugliest match-up chart I've ever seen.

but whateverrrr who cares about ratios.

 

[deepseadiva]

This is how I currently feel our matchup spread is..


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I like your chart much better, Ill, but I have a few comments.

Snake is on par with Falco. In the chart either Snake needs to move down, or Falco up. Whatever number or ratio you want to assign, but they're in the same tier. That's the most blatant error of the whole thing.

Disagreed about Diddy. It's not just float in the match-up, though it certainly plays a large part. A Peach abusing bananas answers the problem of Diddy having the much better moveset, which she could contend with anyway. Even at absolute worst.

We beat Sonic and Olimar.

My take, all in order of worst to best.


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[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I thought they did a good job on the chart tbh

Falco is a potential -2 though, I completely glazed over that lol. I'd be tempted to throw DeDeDe into -1, Luigi into +2 and Zelda into +3 but honestly, I don't really care that much about ratios anymore

There's an error in the big chart though - it's got Peach:MK as -2 rather than -3

hate

I still love you

 

[Cassio]

Well, Pikachus have a history of exaggerating matchups in their favor...

I also (for some odd reason) was pretty adamant about keeping the matchup at even when there was a lot of controversy in the Brawl Panel. All the Peach players were against my decision, and I am now too.

lol, to be fair even if your vote changed half your panel still said it was even.

Considering me and ESAM provided a very large bulk of discussion in phase 2 I feel as if this is a statement against me, yet I spent a decent amount of time researching to ensure that I dont exaggerate and actively attempt to consider how my personal biases play into my opinion. Maybe you dont care now, and just feel wronged. I can understand that sentiment. But Im more than happy to be candid about how I came to my decision and why I led the charge on this MU. What I dont enjoy is people accusing me of exaggeration, hotheadedness or bias without concrete examples; especially when it could simply be a difference of opinion. I know its not just you, and was to be expected when going against popular opinion (on other MUs). And maybe that cant be helped, but since you arent stupidly stubborn and ignorant about it like other people; in this case I wish to acknowledge the concern and state my objection.

 

[z00ted]

I'm not accusing you or anyone of not doing your research or investigating results.
For the most part though, plenty of people (as well as myself) feel though that Pikachu's matchups are slightly exaggerated.

You have the right to your own opinion, as I do mine.
No bad feelings here. After all, it's just a matchup

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

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Pay no mind to the order they are in.
There are some like wolf and fox I can both see -1 but if the mu is played correctly with actually good ground game its even. Most bad float/ air Peach players will be -1. Good player Marios actually have pretty good choices against peach especially on shield and keep away but it can be lower I guess....
Marth off stage is :/.

Dont feel like writing an actually full good explanation but this is chart is what I see.

 

[-LzR-]

Wait, so Peach no longer counters Wario?

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

mine was based off top level play only. i believe it can be even since he can kill us quite early but other than that id say +1 for us.

 

[BMC]

My take:



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They're in no particular order. The Sheik matchup may be in Peach's favor, but, I don't think it's enough to warrant a +1.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I still think gdubs has a slight advantage but slight enough that even or +1 for us will work. We both punish each other really hard. Us because we're gdubs, you because we're light. I put it slightly in our favor because we edgeguard better and because of nair. But I feel that this matchup is really balanced when the peach played right. We are a punish character and she doesnt really leave many openings onstage when her spacing is right. But I feel like we still have the advantage since we do better offstage. I like this matchup a lot and feel like I know it really well since I play kyle so often

 

[Praxis]

I like how the better Illmatic gets at this game the more his list looks like mine
Trolololol

 

[Eddie G]

I will never agree with Yoshi being even. I'll leave it at that.

Also, it's not always about display Meta...I hate when people preach and self-jerk about etiquette. As far as Peach being one of the more heated groups goes, that is utter bull****. We were civil throughout most of the discussions, same as anyone else. Peach players have always had an unjustified stigma of drama or troublemaking hovering around anyway, there's no getting rid of that. I brought a little fire to the Yoshi discussion because I strongly believe we have an advantage, I won't even try to deny it.

You may have quietly lurked the discussions, but you also should have kept it that way.

 

[Razmakazi]

ness is 1 and mk is -2 and i think luigi is 0 since he's just too powerful and he's hard to get off your nuts once he's in. and he's floaty so the SDI gets annoying.

edit: @eddie G -- i think yoshi's about even. and the peaches have been really peaceful for a long time. chill w/ the judgments, yo.

 

[C.S. Dinah]

My take:



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They're in no particular order. The Sheik matchup may be in Peach's favor, but, I don't think it's enough to warrant a +1.

I could follow onto this chart well, though I'd swap Wolf's current placing with Pit's and place Marth as -2.

 

[Eddie G]

ness is 1 and mk is -2 and i think luigi is 0 since he's just too powerful and he's hard to get off your nuts once he's in. and he's floaty so the SDI gets annoying.

edit: @eddie G -- i think yoshi's about even. and the peaches have been really peaceful for a long time. chill w/ the judgments, yo.

No.

10<3