Peach's aerials ignore stale move negation when floated

[Meru.]

While playing vs. CPU 9 I noticed that my Fair was always doing 15% while floating in VS Mode. Needless to say, I immediately started expirimenting. My conclusion so far is that Peach's floating completely ignores stale move negations. Moves that ignore staling are not new: Samus Zair, for example, ignored staling as well. However, I haven't heard of a mechanism that isn't a move, like floating, ignore staling yet.

This means the following:

• If you do an aerial attack while floating, your aerial will do as much damage and knockback will always deal the basic damage, even if it's completely stale. Stale moves deal 0.98x times or less the damage, whereas Peach's floated attacks will always deal 1.00x Example: if you hit the opponent 10 times with Fair without floating (so during a short hup etc.) and then hit them with a floated Fair, the hit will always deal its basic damage and knockback, regardless of how stale it is.
• Her aerials do stale if you're not floating, for example during a short hop, full hop of while landing.
  
• Her aerials do stale if you float, release float and then hit.
• Her aerials do not stale if you float, hit and then release float.
• If you hit with a floated aerial, it will not unstale your other moves. Example: if Fsmash is completely stale, it will not become fresher in the slightest if you hit with floated aerials, even if you hit them 10 with a floated aerial.

I have just discovered this a few minutes ago so I have got no idea why this happens. I will have to leave that to stale move negations researchers like @ Jaxas or @ KuroganeHammer (I personally think it's because the power of the new sparkles she emits while floating). I also do not know yet whether her float also ignores Rage or not since knockback is somewhat hard to test.

Video here!

Anyway, what do you think of this?

EDIT: Turnips also will not stale, but unlike floated aerials, they can unstale moves. Example: Imagine you have used Fsmash 10 times, meaning it's completely stale. If you hit with your opponent with turnips ten times afterwards and then hit them with Fsmash, your Fsmash will be completely fresh again!

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

This is a really really neat find! From watching videos, Fair seems very strong this time round and I guess this is one of the reasons why!!

Good to know that Fair won't be super stale everytime we use it in this game. Retreating Floating Fairs are the future people...

Also do you have the JP version cause I'm starting to get sad I don't have this game yet!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

this is probably a bug

It seems like none of the aerials get multiplied by the stale move negation queue at all when floating

so you do miss out on your 1.05x bonus as well

Nice find!

 

[ffdgh]

Glitch or not this is a great buff for Peach. Now Crown slap can be used much more without hardly any drawbacks!

 

[TheBlossomingLily]

So that means if we poke around a bunch with floating Down Airs at low percentages...
Oh lawd.

Glitch or not this is a great buff for Peach. Now Crown slap can be used much more without hardly any drawbacks!

Unfortunately we still have to be careful about the landing lag. Then again if we just poke carefully with the right-spacing and retreat we shouldn't have to worry about hitting on shields.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

OMFG THIS IS AMAZING. Great find!!!

 

[Airgemini]

Nice discovery Yaaay!
Even if the rage effect doesn't come into play with floated aerials, we still have the option to short hop them for the boosted effects. This is good!

 

[Dark.Pch]

Hold on a sec. You need to try this out in vs mode In brawl training mode the moves would never state or lose its knock back. The same could apply here. Do this in vs mode when you can and see if the results are the same. Cause last I remembered, moves in training mode for smash 4 dont' state.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Hold on a sec. You need to try this out in vs mode In brawl training mode the moves would never state or lose its knock back. The same could apply here. Do this in vs mode when you can and see if the results are the same. Cause last I remembered, moves in training mode for smash 4 dont' state.

Confirmed true. Watch any of Ninjalink's moveset/customs videos which are in training mode. Moves never stale and do the same damage 100% of the time.

 

[Camalange]

Didn't Yaaay clarify in his post that this was happening during VS Mode?

While playing vs. CPU 9 I noticed that my Fair was always doing 15% while floating in VS Mode.

I'd love to see a video or something. This sounds awesome! Very cool find if this is in fact the case.

 

[Jaxas]

While playing vs. CPU 9 I noticed that my Fair was always doing 15% while floating in VS Mode. Needless to say, I immediately started expirimenting. My conclusion so far is that Peach's floating completely ignores stale move negations. Moves that ignore staling are not new: Samus Zair, for example, ignored staling as well. However, I haven't heard of a mechanism that isn't a move, like floating, ignore staling yet.

This means the following:

• If you do an aerial attack while floating, your aerial will do as much damage and knockback will always deal the basic damage, even if it's completely stale. Stale moves deal 0.98x times or less the damage, whereas Peach's floated attacks will always deal 1.00x Example: if you hit the opponent 10 times with Fair without floating (so during a short hup etc.) and then hit them with a floated Fair, the hit will deal its basic damage and knockback again.
• Her aerials do stale if you're not floating, for example during a short hop, full hop of while landing.
  
• Her aerials do stale if you float, release float and then hit.
• Her aerials do not stale if you float, hit and then release float.
• If you hit with a floated aerial, it will not unstale your other moves. Example: if Fsmash is completely stale, it will not become fresher in the slightest if you hit with floated aerials, even if you hit them 10 with a floated aerial.

I have just discovered this a few minutes ago so I have got no idea why this happens. I will have to leave that to stale move negations researchers like @ Jaxas or @ KuroganeHammer (I personally think it's because the power of the new sparkles she emits while floating). I also do not know yet whether her float also ignores Rage or not since knockback is somewhat hard to test.

Anyway, what do you think of this?

Woah, seems neat!
I'll definitely do some testing on this once I get my hands on a full copy; all of my testing at the moment is being done on a demo copy.
Also, does Samus' Zair still not stale in Smash 4? Link's does.

Anyways, I'm going to add this to the info gathered in my Stale Move Negation results thread, since this seems very important. I'll be sure to post the updated info here, too!

 

[Nicole]

OMG PPL ARE IN HERE AGAIN?!?!?

And it's all the old posters!!

Im gonna cry.

Also peach is really gonna be pretty good this time around I think, I can't wait guys ooooommmmmmmmggggggfffffffeeeeeeee

 

[DrakeRowan]

OMG PPL ARE IN HERE AGAIN?!?!?

And it's all the old posters!!

Im gonna cry.

Also peach is really gonna be pretty good this time around I think, I can't wait guys ooooommmmmmmmggggggfffffffeeeeeeee

Same here, Nicole. Peach bomber looks really amazing.

 

[Razmakazi]

when this game comes in the mail next week i'ma lab it up lol...

 

[SFA Smiley]

Sick

Great find

 

[ZeroBlindDragon]

Amazing find! Peach seems so good in SSB4! <3

 

[Meru.]

Hold on a sec. You need to try this out in vs mode In brawl training mode the moves would never state or lose its knock back. The same could apply here. Do this in vs mode when you can and see if the results are the same. Cause last I remembered, moves in training mode for smash 4 dont' state.

I did this in VS mode and Im 100% sure they dont stale. Her aerials do stale if they're not used in a float, but when floating staling doesnt affect them.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Didn't Yaaay clarify in his post that this was happening during VS Mode?

Idk how I must that part. Either way, this is good. Nice find dude.

I did this in VS mode and Im 100% sure they dont stale. Her aerials do stale if they're not used in a float, but when floating staling doesnt affect them.

So this works only if you are floating. I actually like this. It can lead to use of creating nice combos and traps if you think outside the box.

 

[Meru.]

IMPORTANT UPDATE: Peach's turnips also seems ignore staling for some reason. They will always do 6% in a regular throw and 8% in a smash throw. However, unlike her floated aerials, they do seem to unstale moves.

Peachy!

Woah, seems neat!
I'll definitely do some testing on this once I get my hands on a full copy; all of my testing at the moment is being done on a demo copy.
Also, does Samus' Zair still not stale in Smash 4? Link's does.

Anyways, I'm going to add this to the info gathered in my Stale Move Negation results thread, since this seems very important. I'll be sure to post the updated info here, too!

You may want to add the turnip info too!

Samus Zair doesnt seem to stale. Not that it does any damage to begin with anyway (it does 2 on the tip and 1 everywhere else).

EDIT: Added video showing her aerials not staling. The quality isn't very high though. It doesn't contain anything about turnips either since I just discovered that recently.

 

[Dark.Pch]

That explains this sick 13 to 15 hit combo that went from 0-44 I found yesterday. Or mid percent that goes to 50 ish to 80ish. I'll tell you guys about it after the tourney.

 

[hiROI]

Nice find! That fixes some of our killing problems.

 

[ffdgh]

IMPORTANT UPDATE: Peach's turnips also seems ignore staling for some reason. They will always do 6% in a regular throw and 8% in a smash throw. However, unlike her floated aerials, they do seem to unstale moves. Peachy!

Nice just like link's bombs and megaman's metal blade. Also thanks for the video.

 

[Camalange]

This just keeps getting cooler!

 

[BlueGardevoir]

ohhh GOD ... this is reallly cool

so we need to find a way to spam Fair with out being punished XD

 

[Peachkid]

Dude, I may have just made the most disgusting sound of approval.

Such a good find. I'm super happy for Peach and Rosalina in this game. Things are looking good for my Princesses of choice.

HAI BRAWL PEESHES

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

This is pretty much a reunion thread, isn't it? XD

Also yeah, this alone makes doing anything laggy against Peach dangerous. Free unstaled fair for your trouble~

 

[hiROI]

This is pretty much a reunion thread, isn't it? XD

Also yeah, this alone makes doing anything laggy against Peach dangerous. Free unstaled fair for your trouble~

Haha Very much a reunion thread!

Even though I am most likely maining

I get a Brawl Peach vibe from him, while Peach serves me slow looks.

 

[TimeSmash]

Don't know how I missed this for so long but this is AMAZING

 

[M@v]

Oh, this is really good to know. Explains why my aerials were always strong when I was playing on for glory yesterday with her. Also, I think she's just a lot stronger in general now. I feel like a lot of her moves are stronger killers.