**** peach

[MarthTrinity]

Peach was my second/third main in Melee (alternating with Ness who I'm a little better with >_>...)...sooo even if she's been nerfed to hell I'll still use her on occasion.

 

[KOS-MOS]

I don't like the tier list either and I wish it didn't exist, but it can't be ignored. I'm still going to main Peach even though from what I hear(I haven't played it yet so I can't really confirm anything) she isn't as good as she was in melee simply because I enjoy playing Peach. Shes my favorite character.

I'm sorry if I seem like a "tier *****" but I'm just trying to be honest. If your in a tourny setting who is most likely to win? A Fox or a Peach?

 

[Dark.Pch]

I just wanna show that there is more people with my logic of the game. Here is a PM I got from someone maybe a hour ago or so.

"Hey, totally random right but I've been keeping up with the Peach Brawl Discussion and I admire the face that you are still planning to main Peach. I used Peach as my main in Melee and yeah she is very different in Brawl. I think it's admirable when someone works hard to improve a character that is not considered to be "godly."

Anyways, with the large amount of characters added to Brawl, I will be pushing several characters (perhaps like 3 or so) to tournament level, including Peach. I will be pushing to make her one of my mains and working with what she has because I do like her as a character. I've seen your videos and yeah it seems really difficult to use her now, but when you work for something, you'll get positive results in the end.

I'll look forward to playing with you on Wi-Fi and pushing Peach.
"

And look at this. its from a player who is a Falco main in melee.

[20:19] shad0wx1o1: in brawl you're going to have to teach me peach
[20:19] Dark Pch: Oh?
[20:19] Dark Pch: why you say that?
[20:19] shad0wx1o1: im gonna start using her a lot
[20:19] shad0wx1o1: she looks fun to play but i heard her Dsmash is nerfed
[20:19] Dark Pch: it is.......
[20:20] Dark Pch: but dont matter
[20:20] shad0wx1o1: is she overall nerfed or better?
[20:20] Dark Pch: she is still good
[20:20] shad0wx1o1: oh ok
[20:20] shad0wx1o1: i saw your thread thats why
[20:20] shad0wx1o1: ask Dark Pch about anything thread
[20:21] Dark Pch: Oh ok
[20:21] shad0wx1o1: yeah so it made me interested
[20:22] Dark Pch: Sweet

People dont care about this and that. First off, game is made for fun. And once again, to me these reasons are invalid.....for something that just came out and something you are not even use too 100%. This game has not even grown yet. And already people speak like they know thier match ups left and right. But its w/e i'm my own man and think for myself. Ya think she sucks and cant do jack cause ya tried her and failed? ok then. You are so right cause you worked really hard with the character and know it all. Peach is not what she was in melee. Man I'm not even gonna explain all of this again. look at my post before this. it says it all.

With that I do and play as how I want and fell and not cause high ranked players from melee say other wise. I still have trouble and go through what everyone says is bad about her. but me playing her I am finding ways around it. I am taking my Peachy time. I am in no rush to discover how Peach works and to own with her while others are and wont let this game grow and say screw Peach. Cause if you discovered her so fast like that and can PREDICT how she will be in brawl, I dont think it would take as long as it did for the big names in Peach players to be where they are today.

 

[Snakeee]

I don't like the tier list either and I wish it didn't exist, but it can't be ignored. I'm still going to main Peach even though from what I hear(I haven't played it yet so I can't really confirm anything) she isn't as good as she was in melee simply because I enjoy playing Peach. Shes my favorite character.

I'm sorry if I seem like a "tier *****" but I'm just trying to be honest. If your in a tourny setting who is most likely to win? A Fox or a Peach?

Of course in Melee it's much more likely for Fox to win. But I really think everyone's jumping the gun on this one. Maybe it is even somewhat likely that she won't be anywhere near the top, but I never assume things like that. She definitely has some potential at the very least...

 

[Pink Shinobi]

In my opinion, Peach is pretty bad now. She just falls so, so, so slow! She's like a feather in the wind, which is terrible cuz she's such an easy target while in the air. Definitely gonna be lower or bottom tier this time around.

 

[Zankoku]

Stating a character sucks and does not deserve to be played simply because it will most likely not be top tier... that sounds like a tier w.hore to me. There's nothing wrong with having an alternate, but character/people bashing is completely unnecessary.

Tier whores? I find it hard for anyone to be a tier ***** in Brawl right now seeing as how it's very much impossible for the high tiers to be defined at all yet. Peach might have a completely different style of play, and she may have potential in that style. It's still... not my style. Don't lump people into a "tier *****" group just because they prefer to use characters they're more comfortable with/have a better chance of winning with.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I see people mention tiers, here's what I think about tiers in Brawl (because they will eventually exist lol)

In Melee, there were HUGE gaps between the good and the bad. I think that in Brawl, the gaps between characters will be a lot smaller, and many many more characters will be playable in tournament, and the bes tcharacters will not dominate Brawl as hard as the best dominated in Melee.

my $0.02

 

[Dark.Pch]

In my opinion, Peach is pretty bad now. She just falls so, so, so slow! She's like a feather in the wind, which is terrible cuz she's such an easy target while in the air. Definitely gonna be lower or bottom tier this time around.

If your gonna base it on that...........Falco recover sucks. Yet he is the second best cahracter in the game. Who does well against the best character in the game. Thats invalid to even think of her tier placement. You cant even think of tiers right now when this game just came out......and only in japan. People go too much by what they see and not get the facts head on.

 

[rm88]

Tier whores? I find it hard for anyone to be a tier ***** in Brawl right now seeing as how it's very much impossible for the high tiers to be defined at all yet. Peach might have a completely different style of play, and she may have potential in that style. It's still... not my style. Don't lump people into a "tier *****" group just because they prefer to use characters they're more comfortable with/have a better chance of winning with.

Please, excuse me for bashing people who prefer to use characters they're more comfortable with/have a better chance of winning with. Oh, wait, I didn't. My point is... we, Peach players, don't really care if you think she sucks. Go use your favorite character, stop bashing ours.

 

[Zankoku]

The extent of my post was

Actually, I decided I wouldn't want to play Peach in Brawl after trying Peach in Brawl. Same with a couple other characters.

So unless you're talking about Vidjo, you have a pretty broad sense of the term "bashing." I'd hate to see your response to something more along the lines of "Peach is terrible because of X, Y, and Z."

...Of course, now I just want to see your response to it.

 

[rm88]

I don't really want to look overly defensive -_- I just had enough of all this Peach hate, it's ridiculous. As I've stated before, I don't care if she's the new Mewtwo, I'll play her because I like her.

 

[LunaEqualsLuna]

Whoa there are some insane peach fans on this board. Nothing wrong with wanting to main Peach even if she sucks, but no need to get rabid about it... I some times play characters who suck just for fun. For me peach ISNT fun though so i dropped her for those two reasons.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Just to set the record straight for those that may have it mixed up, I'm only against the debate about how you can just predict how Peach will be in the future and sayiong she is no good all cause they tried her a few times and then just got that idea. Not putting much work into a NEW game and letting it grow in the metagame.

I dont care if people quit her. Some people say Peach is fine. but this time around, she does not suit them. And they never once complained about her bad side. Cause when you win fights, you win using the good things about a character, not bad. But to give it a few tries then going saying stuff like she can never make it to the top, handle high game play and such is flat out foolish. And with something new. Those are nothing but opinions depending oh how the player felt about Peach. I'm doing just Peachy with her. I already got into fights that are so damm annoying and its hard for her to handle the fight. But I win them. and it took time, not a short while. And I am STiLL learning some stuff about her cause its hard to win. But I am winning matches so far. I say "SO FAR" cause other characters will be figured out. and then I will see if what I know by that time will keep me well prepared to win them. Or if I gotta try something new/work harder. And if that still does not work........THEN i'll be like" Man she cant do anything. I tried all this stuff and etc. Still cant hold my own"

Most people now just try a character a few times. then say "oh they suck, they cant do anything" Thats what they said about wario. I picked him up. A week later I was tearing **** up with Wario. All i did was learn about him. What he cant and cant do. understand the character fully. Some people did not even do that. And even today they still dont and gave these meaningless facts.

And thinking about tiers now is so funny. When some dont realize Peach is not the only character that got nerfed. you know how many characters are in this game? One thing wont work for every character.....I'm not gonna get into tier lists now cause its already known how long it takes to make an OFFICIAL one. Not opinionated so early and say this is it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats about it. My point over all that dont want to read all? Anything you say downgrading Peach and your negative comments about the future Peach in brawl is straight up invalid in this time period of Brawl being touched. Things take time, not a few tries and thing you have it all figured out. Anything else I dont care for. Switch characters and such, yadda yadda. Opinions is cool. Everyone is intitled to one. But dont make them seem like facts. Cause its obviously not .______.

 

[outofdashdwz]

****, a lot of scrubs in this topic.

Just by language alone I can tell Cort and KOS-MOS will be just fine for brawl.

Accepting your character sucks is the first step guys. I know what it's like to be a fan of a character and want to win, but while it's possible to some degree, at the highest level it is not.

If you're going to use Peach and are looking to be a good player in a competitive atmosphere you better have top tier back up.

I for one was going to use Peach a bit in Brawl, but after reading this Topic I am not. I don't like the character enough to put in the time to fight up hill battles all day.

QFT

Please, excuse me for bashing people who prefer to use characters they're more comfortable with/have a better chance of winning with. Oh, wait, I didn't. My point is... we, Peach players, don't really care if you think she sucks. Go use your favorite character, stop bashing ours.

I think the point of their posts is that they do play to win, and as it stands now, Peach is less likely to win than many of the other characters present in the game. Simple as that. They just stated their opinions and didn't try to dissuade you from playing Peach. They played Peach for her design in melee, whereas you play Peach for her character itself. Mere difference of opinion =/ I have no problem with either. I mained Peach in melee too, and when the game comes out, I'll try her and decide where to go from there.

 

[Mr.C]

Peach is still amazing. Its just the people who got by with just spamming dsmash, turnips and nair are mad you can no longer do that. l2play.

 

[Lovely]

Peach is still amazing. Its just the people who got by with just spamming dsmash, turnips and nair are mad you can no longer do that. l2play.

Yea, I'm kind of glad that's not in anymore, the Peach players in Melee depend on that move and it got real predictable. Now they can do more than just that one move all the time.....

 

[Yuna]

Dark.Pch: I've played extensively as Peach and I can honestly say: She sucks.

Point out reasons why she doesn't suck, please.

Unless we find some gamebreaking mechanics and techniques that completely changes the game, she will suck in the future as well. Stop saying "We don't know if we'll...". We don't know a lot of things. We cannot speak of things in only the now and constantly add "Unless we find out a lot of new stuff" after every single sentence.

From what we know now (and we know quite a lot by now), Peach sucks!
* No comboability because of how her moves work now
* No combo from Dair
* Dsmash sucks in every single possible way except for speed in startup
* Tiny grabrange, still
* Bad KO-ability
* Still can't kill vertically that well
* Nerfed turnip pulls
* Bad damage output especially since she can't combo
* 2nd jump that's hardly a jump at all

She can't do a lot of damage unless she hits you three times in a row, she can't combo and she can't KO unless they have, like, 150%. Yeah, she sucks alright.

At least Sheik can spam tilts and certain aerials for combos and then switch to Zelda or use moves she hasn't staled yet for KO:ing. Peach's only good moves double as KO:ers and high damagers. You either have to inflict tiny damage or eat Stale Moves and lose even more of her KO-ability.

Yea, I'm kind of glad that's not in anymore, the Peach players in Melee depend on that move and it got real predictable. Now they can do more than just that one move all the time.....

Only it won't work because they all suck now. We'll be forced into spamming even fewer moves because most of her moves randomly suck now... unless you want to play a character that can't combo and has to constantly chip away at the opponent's HP bar with 10-14% worth of damage for each move she lands while most other characters can land combos of 20-40%.

 

[Mr.C]

Dark.Pch: I've played extensively as Peach and I can honestly say: She sucks.

Point out reasons why she doesn't suck, please.

Unless we find some gamebreaking mechanics and techniques that completely changes the game, she will suck in the future as well. Stop saying "We don't know if we'll...". We don't know a lot of things. We cannot speak of things in only the now and constantly add "Unless we find out a lot of new stuff" after every single sentence.

From what we know now (and we know quite a lot by now), Peach sucks!
* No comboability because of how her moves work now
* No combo from Dair
* Dsmash sucks in every single possible way except for speed in startup
* Tiny grabrange, still
* Bad KO-ability
* Still can't kill vertically that well
* Nerfed turnip pulls
* Bad damage output especially since she can't combo
* 2nd jump that's hardly a jump at all

She can't do a lot of damage unless she hits you three times in a row, she can't combo and she can't KO unless they have, like, 150%. Yeah, she sucks alright.

I've played Peach as well vs top Texas players and she is still extremely solid, definitely one of the better characters.

From what we know now (its obvious you have no idea how to play), o chit!
* Hardly any characters can combo pass 10%. gg
* Quit using Dair. She has other moves.
* Her Dsmash is not op like it was in Melee get use to it, but Dsmash is still very useful for being safe after aerials, eating shields.
* Her KO ability is still good. You rack up damage using safe SPACED aerials (I know most Peach players have no idea what spacing is...because in Melee you did not need to do this *cough dsmash cough*)
* Instead of spamming turnips for damage why don't you use them to create opportunities? GLIDE TOSS the turnip if it hits you pretty much get a free grab or nair. omg wow adapting. Maybe you can even throw turnips to cause shields so you can get in a grab?! omg mindgame!?

Her damage is created just like everyone else's in Brawl you approach with safe aerials or punish aerials with shield grabs, powershields etc. With her semi float canceling she still has one of the fastest approaches in the game. No one can really combo, almost every character in the game cannot kill until 150%, welcome to Brawl.

 

[Yuna]

From what we know now (its obvious you have no idea how to play), o chit!
* Hardly any characters can combo pass 10%.

Marth, Fox, Sheik, Lucario, I could name more.

* Quit using Dair. She has other moves.

Name 3 that are good for comboing or damaging.

* Her Dsmash is not op like it was in Melee get use to it, but Dsmash is still very useful for being safe after aerials, eating shields.

No it's not. Because all of her aerials still lag too much for her to land safely after one into a Dsmash. If you try it against anyone who's not an idiot, they can just shieldgrab you.

The game also has less hit- and shieldstun and her Dsmash has less shieldknockback now. Unless they screwed up the timing of their shieldgrab, they'll shield it and then shieldgrab you or alternatively shieldhop aerial you in the face.

* Her KO ability is still good. You rack up damage using safe SPACED aerials (I know most Peach players have no idea what spacing is...because in Melee you did not need to do this *cough dsmash cough*)

How does spacing make her better at racking up damage when most of Peach's aerial sweetspots are close to her body? We're not talking about playing a safe game here. In order to rack up damage, you also need to have moves that, you know, rack up damage.

You're not good at racking up damage if you need to hit someone 5 times to rack up a good 70% of damage and none of those moves are easy or maybe even possible to combo into and/or from.

That's running around and hitting your opponent for a little damage and then repeating it. It's not easy. It's hard!

* Instead of spamming turnips for damage why don't you use them to create opportunities? GLIDE TOSS the turnip if it hits you pretty much get a free grab or nair. omg wow adapting. Maybe you can even throw turnips to cause shields so you can get in a grab?! omg mindgame!?

Since when has hitting with a turnip up close ever guaranteed a free grab or a nair? Anyone ever heard of spotdodging? Will dodge the grab. In Melee, you risked eating Peach's Dsmash. In Brawl, that's not much of a risk. A Nair in Brawl lasts for less frames, has less priority, knockback and damage. So every time you think she'll grab you, just spotdodge and voila, you'll, at most, eat a very inane punish.

And what are you going to do after a grab? Her grabgame is worse than in Melee. You can't even techchase the Dthrow anymore in hopes of getting in another attack! All you can do now is throw them! Wow! They just got a little damage! How mind boggling!

Also, the game has less hitstun. So hitting with a turnip is no longer a good way to combo, especially not on the ground. In fact, sometimes, they can grab you before you can if you dash forward into a grab.

Her damage is created just like everyone else's in Brawl you approach with safe aerials or punish aerials with shield grabs, powershields etc. With her semi float canceling she still has one of the fastest approaches in the game. No one can really combo, almost every character in the game cannot kill until 150%, welcome to Brawl.

There is no semi-float canceling.

Every single aerial she's got is unsafe if she's within shieldgrabbing range while doing them because of more shieldhitstun, more lag (on landing) and random ****. If they block it, they grab you. So you have to space it so they either whiff or you're above their heads (with a Dair or something). It's also not much of an approach if you can't do anything if you actually hit them. So you got in a little damage. Big whoops. Other people can combo from their approaches.

People can combo. Those characters are the High Tiers. People can KO at 110-130% or even below it as well. Those are also High Tiers. Then there are those who can do both. Those are the Top Tiers. Peach can do neither. She's a Low Tier.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Yuna is still playing a drama queen.

 

[Yuna]

Yuna is still playing a drama queen.

Do you actually think Peach is viable in competitive play in Brawl?

Don't get me wrong, I still like her and will still play as her. But I wouldn't main her in competitive play because of the uphill battle she has in pretty much every single matchup, especially the (seemingly) Top Tiers and High Tiers of Brawl. She's still a fun character to play and I low her Sideway Taunt (La la la la la la).

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I'm fairly confident myself that Peach will not be in the top 25th percentile like she was in Melee.

However, watching you whine, *****, and moan and blow everything out of proportion about EVERYTHING, EVERY TIME I SEE YOU POST is why I'm calling you a drama queen. An overdramatic one, at that.

 

[Snakeee]

If she sucked she'd be competely useless, which she is definitely not at least. She's seeming better and better to me as I play now though its pretty ironic. I'm WAY too tired and have to get up in less than 5 hours so I'm not posting specific reasons why I think she's good yet.

 

[Yuna]

I'm fairly confident myself that Peach will not be in the top 25th percentile like she was in Melee.

However, watching you whine, *****, and moan and blow everything out of proportion about EVERYTHING, EVERY TIME I SEE YOU POST is why I'm calling you a drama queen. An overdramatic one, at that.

How did I exaggerate anything in this thread. I pointed out how Peach works now. She's possibly not Low Tier since there are plenty of sucky characters in Brawl. She's at least not High Tier. Mid at most.

I am merely pointing out facts to disprove clearly faulty statements from people who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about (like how Peach can supposedly still rack up damage, combo, KO or is High Tier-material).

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Face it Yuna, a lot of what you post is inconclusive or otherwise still "inside the box."

*Peach can combo from Dair very well at low damages only. That's more than what other characters can do.
*Peach's Dsmash is still an extremely useful attack. Before I get shield grabbed, they get shield stabbed, and I just repeat Dsmash again. It's not even easily shieldgrabble because it does in fact push shields out of grab range.
*Peach's grab range is actually significantly better than before. It's mid-range rather than low-range.
*Peach Bomber is a legitimate attack and not useless. You're not using it right.
*Peach's Toad, also far from useless since it comes out faster. You're not thinking outside the box.

I also distinctly remember this from other threads, just to reinforce a point:

"Peach's new utilt SUCKS" - uh... right
"Lives can no longer be stolen in teams, teams can no longer be played competitively" - oh GTFO of here already.

Yuna, you are a drama queen and nearly everything I see you say is filled hot air which makes it difficult to take you seriously. It's especially harder to take you seriously when you happen to have a running streak of posting misinformation.

 

[Cort]

I enjoyed reading most of what Yuna had to say. >_>

And uh, it's not like Peach is completely worthless at tournaments. She just won't be winning them. 'nough said.

Also lol @ Mr.C playing Peach

 

[Yuna]

Face it Yuna, a lot of what you post is inconclusive or otherwise still "inside the box."

How is it inconclusive? I mean, how deep can this game be? Unless we find some gamebreaking techniques that specifically boost Peach, What You See is What You Get.

*Peach can combo from Dair very well at low damages only. That's more than what other characters can do.

Yeah, at, like, 0%. At 10-15%, they'll get launched too high. Her 2nd jump is so inane she won't be able to jump after them and combo, especially not with the lessened hitstun (airdodge, fair/dair/nair, 2nd jump to avoid). Even at 0%, it's still a multi-hit. They can tap-DI into airdodge or something.

And what is she going to combo into? Nair? Wow, what a great combo. You just got a little bit damage in... and you can only do it at 0-10%. Not that good. She's not completely without combos as pretty much everyone has some kind of combo at 0-10%, but it's not really comboability if it's only doable at 0-10%.

*Peach's Dsmash is still an extremely useful attack. Before I get shield grabbed, they get shield stabbed, and I just repeat Dsmash again. It's not even easily shieldgrabble because it does in fact push shields out of grab range.

The "shieldstab" is much much much less than in Melee because the move has been nerfed so much in terms of damage, shieldstun and knockback, the opponent's shield doesn't really go down that much. Also, what happens if their shield becomes so small they get hit by it?

Oh noes! They just received 4-10% of damage on average! If they didn't DI or DI:ed it wrong, they might have eaten the entire thing for 20%! Noes!

Also, the shieldknockback is less than in Melee and even in Melee badly spaced Dsmashes were shieldgrabbable. Since the range of the Dsmash is much smaller now, it's easier to space it wrong. And if you "space it wrong" and they're knocked back so far they can't shieldgrab, they can still shieldhop into an aerial.

It might not be a guaranteed punisher but it's far from a good pressure move. They shield it, they shieldhop into an aerial and you're eating shieldpressure.

*Peach's grab range is actually significantly better than before. It's mid-range rather than low-range.

I haven't found it to be "significantly" better. It's better, sure. I'll test it out.

*Peach Bomber is a legitimate attack and not useless. You're not using it right.

How is it a legitimate attack? It's still got a lot of startup frames. How could it ever be used in legitimate battle? The startup is less now, but it's still significant. Any time you can Peach Bomb, you can dash in with a Dash Attack unless your opponent just randomly Fsmashed thin air too far away and only your Peach Bomber can reach them or something and even then it's iffy unless they lag forever after the smash.

The damage isn't all that great considering how slow it is and the little semi-spike properties mean nothing since the knockback is still really bad.

*Peach's Toad, also far from useless since it comes out faster. You're not thinking outside the box.

It's still a counter. The opponent has to hit it. It also doesn't hit from behind and it doesn't react to grabs (not that it should).

If you spam it, they will grab. It's also too slow to do on reaction or to negate shieldpressure (like, out of shield). It'll kill now, sure, but only at 130% or so.

Faster, stronger, still too slow to be used like a real move. Ok, so maybe not useless. I'll edit that out. But really useful? Hardly.

I also distinctly remember this from other threads, just to reinforce a point:

"Peach's new utilt SUCKS" - uh... right
"Lives can no longer be stolen in teams, teams can no longer be played competitively" - oh GTFO of here already.

Wow, I was wrong. I guess I can never be right ever again.

Peach's U-tilt looked like it sucked against grounded opponents. Of course it's a good anti-air but I was tired and didn't think of it at the time. It's still not one of the best anti-airs in the game because the hitbox stays out for such a short time, you lag too much afterwards to spam it and it doesn't even kill 'til 130%. It's good, though.

The Life Stealing was me simply not discovering it. I tried a lot of things out. I just didn't happen to try mashing A + B together. It's different from being able to tell whether her Dsmash sucks now or not.

Also, as I specifically stated in the thread those were snurched from (if the Life Stealing-part was from that thread), those were my spontaneous and immediate reactions upon playing the game. To keep them in, I didn't edit anything out, only stuff in, as shown by how I state that Fsmashes can no longer be tilted only to later edit in that they can be tilted, just not with the C-stick.

I've now had much more hands on time with Peach to explore her. In fact, when I first tried Brawl out, I didn't really think Peach was all that bad. Then I played her against actual people. And discovered that she's really pretty bad.

 

[RedMage8BT]

Bowser is not a viable competitor in Melee because he sucks! Prove me wrong.

...oh, wait...

 

[Yuna]

Bowser is not a viable competitor in Melee because he sucks! Prove me wrong.

...oh, wait...

Name 1 single major tournament that had a Bowser (who only played Bowser throughout the entire tournament) place high... at all.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

SH aerials out of shield are really not a big concern because SHs are so high, and SHFLLs are not effective. Brawl's new physics happen to make Dsmash harder to punish on shield. I have very rarely been punished when my Dsmash was blocked, to virtually the same incidences where it was punished in Melee. And the Dsmash hitbox is lower to the ground now, which is why it shieldstabs so well despite not doing all that much damage to the shield. They get shieldstabbed frequently, and you can follow with more Dsmashes. It's an effective damage builder at low %s, and is all-around useful for getting a hit past their shield. Its range is also NOT smaller. If you think it is, then please compare the Melee Dsmash range to this one.

Peach Bomber now has a multitude of uses because it's by far the quickest attack Peach can produce at the distances it can go. You'd be foolish to overlook it.

If you weren't good with Toad in Melee, you're not going to be good with it in Brawl. It does nearly everything that the Melee Toad does, except safer, faster, and thus more reliable. Toad has always been situationally GODLY, and he's better in Brawl. If you spam Toad... then you're not using him right. This move really isn't worth a complaint right now.

Think outside your box, and experiment before you go around telling people how much these moves "suck."

 

[Yuna]

SH aerials out of shield are really not a big concern because SHs are so high, and SHFLLs are not effective. Brawl's new physics happen to make Dsmash harder to punish on shield. I have very rarely been punished when my Dsmash was blocked, to virtually the same incidences where it was punished in Melee. And the Dsmash hitbox is lower to the ground now, which is why it shieldstabs so well despite not doing all that much damage to the shield. They get shieldstabbed frequently, and you can follow with more Dsmashes. It's an effective damage builder at low %s, and is all-around useful for getting a hit past their shield. Its range is also NOT smaller. If you think it is, then please compare the Melee Dsmash range to this one.

Depends on the character and, really, it's not really a good pressure move if they can SH out of it into an aerial and force you to shield it all, especially if the SH:ed aerial isn't even unsafe on shield.

I know about the dsmash's new hitbox. I just feel that the range has been nerfed. Will test it out this weekend. You can still tilt your shield and unless your opponent's shield is already small to begin with, it won't really shieldstab. Also, how often do you get a dsmash off to shieldstab someone?

Every single aerial she's got is unsafe on block. You can't aerial into dsmash anymore. You can even run up to them and dash cancel into dsmash since Dash Cancel doesn't work either. So it's just a mindgaming move you randomly throw out and hope for a shieldstab?

Even if it shieldstabs, what are you gonna do when following up with another dsmash? If you hit for all hits for a good 20-21% of damage, they'll fly off too far for you to hit them again. If you don't and can combo, the initial hit will have done 4-10%, tops and your new hit will most likely not do its full damage because they'll obviously DI it.

It's not really a good damage builder anymore since even if all hits connect (which is rare), then it'll still only inflict 21% or so of damage.

Peach Bomber now has a multitude of uses because it's by far the quickest attack Peach can produce at the distances it can go. You'd be foolish to overlook it.

How often are you going to have use for it? When you're not blocking and the opponent is charging a Smash (which they can just let go at the right time and your Peach Bomber, anyway?)? When they just accidentally U-tilted as Ganondorf or start up Warlock or Falcon Punch?

It's still to slow to actually hit anyone good unless they just did a reaaally laggy aerial on thin air (i.e.: Didn't force you to shield it) and even then it's not really that good since you could just dashattack them, dashgrab them or fsmash them or something.

If you weren't good with Toad in Melee, you're not going to be good with it in Brawl. It does nearly everything that the Melee Toad does, except safer, faster, and thus more reliable. Toad has always been situationally GODLY, and he's better in Brawl. If you spam Toad... then you're not using him right. This move really isn't worth a complaint right now.

How was Toad ever godly in Melee? Even on hit, the opponent recovers faster than Peach. Toad had set knockback in Melee. Toading projectiles would sometimes make them bounce on the spores and then hit you afterwards.

He's better now, sure. Very useful? No. I was out of line when I called him useless, I'll admit to that. But he's still highly situational, still unsafe and not really that much of a factor. I mean, unless your opponent is really predictable, Toad cannot be used.

Toad still has to be used on prediction, not reaction (unless the move used against you is really slow on startup). I have never spammed Toad.

Think outside your box, and experiment before you go around telling people how much these moves "suck."

The Dsmash still sucks. Because even if it shieldstabs, there's not much you can do from it and the shieldstab itself does no damage or knockback... or stun for that matter.

Toad and Peach Bomber, though better, are still very situational, unsafe and unreliable. And there are almost always better options to use than Peach Bomber. I can see a use for it if you're offstage and the opponent his whiffed a move with a lot of cooldown. Peach Bomber them in the face and then recover, though. Still, it's not that good and there are almost always better options, like how Peach's Melee U-tilt could be used for the invincibility and range, but it wasn't really all that when you sat down and thought about it.

More useful now? Yes. Reliably useful? Not really.

In fact, in certain situations, even on hit, people can get out of the stun fast enough to punish you for dsmashing them.

 

[Master Peach]

Nice point MP...
But if they dont like her in this game than of course they can leave her and I guess its their opinion and all... But for some people to say she sucks is going a little too far when they probably only played it for a couple of hours at the most....
Have you played yet MP?

I have played. I know for one thing that Peach is tricky to play with in the beginning. That's because I and a lot of other people were trying to use our Melee style of Peach which doesn't fit in brawl. To get use to Peach you would need to get use to her floatyness, and how she moves differently.

LOL 'Master Peach'

You can try and lecture me all you want, but I've got about 4 years worth of experience on top of whatever you have. I understand how competitive gaming works at it's peak levels, while you don't. I understand a lot more about character match ups and character potential, while you don't. My biggest regret in Melee is choosing a subpar character that can't deal with extremely high level play and the characters used (aka, choosing Peach and dealing with major tournament winning Foxes and Marths)

No where in this thread have I tried to sound all high and mighty (until now, but atleast I'm backing it up with FACTS), you're apparently shoving words down my throat to try and make your nonexistent argument sound that much more reputable.

I understand that Brawl is a completely new game and it has just barely come out, but from my years of experience I can already see that Peach will not be a tournament winning character, and there are a VAST number of characters better than her.

I won't even get into how extremely shallow and uninteresting Brawl is, and how easily I can predict the very high end level play (which you have no concept of), but it's kinda sad.

Oh, and if you want to argue with me using opinions based on nothing about Peach, listen to this: Peach is a stupid character. Why would anyone want to play a ditsy blonde?

LOL *prepares flame shield from the Peach subforums* But seriously guys, if you actually consider everything I've said then you're THAT MUCH CLOSER to understanding high end competitive play. Stop fanboying over a stupid character and listen to fact.

LMAO! This is going to be fun.

Now let me take down your first point now. You have 4 years of MELEE experience! Not brawl. You may know almost everything in melee but you have no clue on how the mechanics of brawl works. It just came out, and you really think you know a lot. No you do not. You are still very ignorant. Also I know since your a pro and all that you have better insight on things than other people but even with that you can't say a certain character you use is inefficient. This is a new game. You can be real good in Melee but horrible in brawl. Things can change that one thing I know. Now here's one thing I don't understand If you hate Peach so much WHY THE **** DO YOU USE HER!!! And don't give me that crap about you been use to her moves, or that's the way you play, or that you been using her for years!! That's Bull****!! Mew 2 King use to main Fox but now he Mains Marth. And he's pretty **** good with him! My Bro was awesome with Sheik but he switched mains with Marth. Now he kicks my *** twice as hard!! That's not to say I don't give him a hard time, and I learn more from playing him each time. If all you care about is a character that can win you a tournament then you really need to switch mains and STFU. Go play as fox or or one of those other highly over powered characters.

Now for your second point. You honestly think I'm forcing you to do this? It's your choice, It's not like I have a gun held to your head or something. I'm just putting my intake on this crap. If you don't care about what I say or what I'm saying doesn't matter... Stop acting like it does. My argument is nonexistent, Clearly it does exist or you wouldn't have responded to it.

Your third point. Your years of experience don't mean **** in Brawl! Your just better prepared than most people. In brawl your a noob just like everyone else is. You are not a God, so stop trying to think like one.

4th point is nonexistent. Just go play Melee under a rock. You'll be much happier that way.

Quote: "Oh, and if you want to argue with me using opinions based on nothing about Peach, listen to this: Peach is a stupid character. Why would anyone want to play a ditsy blonde?"
Why do you play as her you idiot? Were you born as ****** or do you just like asking dumb questions? IMO Peach is an amazing character. Doesn't matter what you say, your just a noob. LOL

Quote: "Stop fanboying over a stupid character and listen to fact." Yes I am a Peach Fanboy but that's not the reason I main her!! When Melee first came out I used to Main Link because I thought he was a cool and good character. When I used Peach I played her as a joke but then when I used her and won I realized she's not as bad as a character as I thought or that people claimed, and I relized this when I was still a noob. When I looked at the teir list it confirmed what I thought about Peach. She's a Great character. If you can't realized that, than you really are a noob.

Also 1 things need to be said. You can try and lecture me about how you have a years of experience with smash and what not, but my point stands firm. ANYONE CAN MAKE A CHARACTER GOOD!!! It just takes time, effort, and patience to master them. Gimpyfish anyone? And since brawl just came out It would take a graet deal of time to master and understand the concept of Brawl. Cort you are not a pro in Brawl. Saying Peach or anyone sucks in brawl doesn't mean anything from your mouth. It just shows how stupid and ignorant you really are.

Master Peach, I'm not one to really flame people ever, but you're a ****ing *******, stfu you don't know **** and Cort knows more than you do about smash in general, if you don't like his opinion then either argue PROPERLY with it or ignore it altogether

it's one thing if I know people are wrong, but when they are wrong AND arrogant about it, and talking down to people who explain things that they know is true logically, then that's another.

Mew 2 king I feel where your coming from, but I really can't stand it when anyone puts down a character and says it's crap. Bowser is one of the worse characters in melee yet Gimpyfish does well with him. So for Cort to already claim peach as sucky character in Brawl, That's a load of crap and you know it. It will take time for us to determine where each character lies. Peach may not be good as of now, but that will soon change. I can guarantee it. Also Cort goes by what he knows in Melee, He knows nothing of Brawl. Until Cort can be labeled as Pro in Brawl that's when I'll take his intake seriously.

 

[Yuna]

You can guarantee that Peach will become a good character? Any character can be good if the right person plays it?

Tell that to the people who try to play as Pichu in Melee, Talim in Soul Calibur III or any other really bad character with little to not potential in a fight game where the majority of the cast destroys them.

 

[R!S3]

I agree with master peach...

Gimpy is a perfect example of how an individual can look past weaknesses in a character and dial in on the strengths...

Not to mention Dire with GaW...

Less then a month of game play will not qualify ANYONE to denounce a character completely

 

[Cort]

ugh gigantic wall of pink text

tl;dr. Try making some real, to the point arguments and maybe I'll consider reading them. Judging from Yuna's response it sounds like you said everything I predicted you would.

Oh, and read my posts closer. Let me remind you guys I'm talking about high end competitive play. Peach will be useless.

I spent many years using Peach in tournaments only to gain useless experience. If you don't care about being one of the top best at this game, don't bother trying to refute any of my points because they're all based on fact and experience.

Don't make my mistake.

 

[Igneous42]

You can guarantee that Peach will become a good character? Any character can be good if the right person plays it?

Tell that to the people who try to play as Pichu in Melee, Talim in Soul Calibur III or any other really bad character with little to not potential in a fight game where the majority of the cast destroys them.

Soul Calibur III isn't a good example, the creators have admitted that they focused more on making the character fun than balance.

 

[Zankoku]

Gimpy is a perfect example of how an individual can look past weaknesses in a character and dial in on the strengths...

He's also a perfect example of how taking a character like Bowser to its limits can bring him all the way to.... second pools. Gimpy's better than the other Bowser players out there, but I've yet to see him break a lot of ground in a major tournament.

 

[Yuna]

GimpyFish played and still plays Bowser an an incredibly high level. So does Taj (MewTwo), Dire (G&W, right?) and others.

And?

Have they ever managed to beat a truly skilled player using Top to High to Mid tiers (unless the matchup is specifically good for their characters, pretty even or their opponents just screwed up and suicided or something or they just didn't have enough experience against their characters) using their Low Tiers in a tournament?

Bowser, Mewtwo and Game & Watch can be played at a high level. It's just that even at the highest level, their potential will still pale in comparison to the potential of even mediocre Sheik-players. They will still lose to skilled to moderately skilled characters because their options are just too limited and the battles too up-hill.

Also, Brawl is not Melee. Brawl Peach is completely different, Master Peach. Why do you cling desperately to the belief that Brawl Peach will be good when good and reputable Peach players have already stated the opposite after extensive playing?

We've tested out all of her moves, combos, potential, everything. Unless we find some truly game-breaking things that will completely change how the game works, Peach will not be very good, especially not compared to the other Brawl characters (like Marth).

Soul Calibur III isn't a good example, the creators have admitted that they focused more on making the character fun than balance.

As opposed to Sakurai and horde of Balance Lovers? I mean, come on. How competent can they be if they left Marth almost untouched, even improving some of his moves? When they nerfed Peach's downsmash so much and left Fox's Upsmash just slightly nerfed. When they nerfed Sheik into infinity yet gave Pikachu what is basically an improved version of Peach's dsmash?

Maybe Sakurai and his henchmen tried to kinda balance the game. Doesn't mean they automatically succeeded. Talim was used as an example because she's the Bottom of Bottom Tier of SC3 IIRC. She stands almost no chance in a fight between two competent players.

It's just like how GimpyFish can't win against me in a tournament unless I really screw up because his character is just that bad (I'm not ribbing Gimpy, I'm just a pretty competent Peach player with Bowser experience... chances are I'd win even if he played at the top of his game because Bowser just isn't that very good).

 

[Igneous42]

How depressing. Peach isn't good anymore? I consider her my second best in Melee. Though I'm not competative so it doesn't effect me nearly as much but still.

My main is Link and he apparently he got screwed too...

 

[Dark.Pch]

Think outside your box, and experiment before you go around telling people how much these moves "suck."

Paste this on your wall Yuna over and over. I was gonna quote you and reply on what you said to me. But Ryoko did the job more than once for me. Your trying to do this like melee. "oh dsmash is worthless" Its still fast, has range and you can use it after a move to space yourself and you cant get punished.

Toad cant do nothing........ahahahahahahaha!!!!! Did you know that move kills and has godly knockback. And it has range. Also the move last longer. it through me off alot when I thought I could attack, and I still got countered. So thats another killing move she has.

Cant do nothing out of the Dair........-_____- '
Look at her Dair works then uses your head. What has knockback of that move? Her 4th kick. So what you do? Fall before the 4th kick comes out so they dont get sent flying and you can then Dsmash, jab, Ftilt, etc. Common sense Yuna.


Nothing is working for you so you complain that she cant do anything. Stop doing things like they were used in melee. Different game. You understand the meaning of that word. That means you have to do things unlike before. switch it up. Not the same anymore. and thats where your head still is. I bet i'll kick your butt when I play you and you can use any character you want. Just to show you that you what you are doing and thinking is flat out wrong. ether learn stuff. get the melee image out of your head and stop crying about it or just get out of here with these rants of how YOU.....YUNA cant do jack while I can use her just fine and do well. And know, you did not try enough, or hard enough at that. Else you use your head more instead of your melee mindset. Just go play another character and leave this to Players who want put work in her. I saw you pull the same crap in the sheik area. They dont like it and we dont nether.