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Peach Weekly Match-Up Rediscussion: Meta Knight

Dark.Pch

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Looks like I am a lil late on this. But I'll give my input on this since I have played lots of metas from rookies to pros like M2K.

This match up is a game of cat and mouse. You are always the mouse and can never be the cat, at all. You dare try being the cat, you are asking to get the crap beating out of you. (this applies to Marth as well) how does a mouse come out victorious from a cat? If you ever watch tom and jerry, the way Jerry handles tom. thats how you are suppose to do it here.

You have no buissness approaching meta. At all. Let him come to you. You can attack him from distance. He can't If he wants to hurt you, he has to come to you. Plus need to keep your Kill moves fresh. Meta is not that heavy and lucky for us, he can die well from us.

Lot's have been said here so I'll just add what you need in this match.

- Patience. If you play aggressive, throw this match out the window, you are not winning. Patience is important here for you don't need to be approaching meta. learn to be defensive, playing aggressive will have meta end you sooner than you expect. Certain characters you need to play aggressive. meta is NOT one of them. He is not having that.

- Evasion. You need to have good evasion when Meta is all over you. Once meta gets his hits in and is on you, he can stay on your azz and even kill you for it. So you need to know how to break away. With platforms this makes it hard, but easier at the same time. Learn how to break free him his pressure/rampage. Once you do, you can start the process of getting damage from turnips and having him come to you.

- Spacing. This is also important. With you have good spacing, it will make it hard for meta to touch you. His range is not that good. Only time he has decent range is his Ftilt and and think Fsmash. Bait his moves and space yours. Done right, you can break his crap and hit him. Add turnips to your spacing if in fear you kill moves will get weak. Just don't pick them up at the wrong time.

- Speed/quick relfexes. This is one of the reasons I find meta fun to play against. Cause with him, I have to play so fast. somewhat reminds me of melee. Don't stay in one place for too long. Don't roll alot, you will just eat a Dsmash or move into his attacks. Make it hard for meta to pin point you. This can reduce the chance or stupid kills he can get on you. This is also important cause his range is not all that. Meta hits your shield, recat as fast as possible with a counter attack. Meta sidesteps? short hop Dair or FC>bair if looking the other way. See meata rolling on to the stage? Reverse Fsmash him. But be quick about it all. The faster you are, the more problems meta will have. More than expected. Even for a character like Peach.

To me these are the 4 most important factors for beating this broken character. The most important one to me I would say is patience. Even if you suck at the last 3, patience can make up for it. Use these 4 things and use them as combinations. Or all at once if you are good at them.

My match up score for this, I am not to sure about any more. I would say 40-60 Meta. If anyone was to get a 30-70 on her it be Marth to me. Only big problem I have with meta is when you are face to face with meta in the air while trying to get back on stage. I played M2K in teams at that N.Y tournament. He got me in the air once and that was a stock I lost. her air doge is such garbage, so could not rely on that, and when I did air dodge, I was open to one of his other attacks. Her falling speed is slow so that does not help when he can dish out 500 attacks at you up there. M2K is so good and kicking your azz in the air and knocking you out.


I'm not sure if these will help but here are 2 vids against meta. My friend Jash and NinjaLink.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsaobM_1Zlc&fmt=18

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMYXm5pjKbU&fmt=18 <-------- Look at how I spaced him for the last kill.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I'm going to have to request that you guys keep on discussing MK when you have the time. Some people say it's 70:30, others think it's around 55:45. So yea, please keep discussing. I purposely chose Wario as the next rediscussion topic because I knew it wouldn't take very long at all and we could hopefully go back to this
 

BentoBox

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Only one guy claimed it was 55:45, ricky (from a POV where his opponent admittedly played it wrong). I think the general consensus is pretty clear.
 

Canvasofgrey

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I say 60:40 for Metaknight in my opinion; 65:35 is probable too. But that's just me, because I think I have an easier time with Metaknight than some of the other characters, (Mainly Snake and Rob =/) Though nowadays, I'm thinking of just using Zelda as my Metaknight counterpick.

70:30 is a bit much in my opinion. I don't think Peach is at that much a disadvantage in that sense.
 

deepseadiva

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I would put it at 70:30, but I honestly have yet to be "*****" by an MK. I couldn't change my opinion on it without encountering it first hand.

I chalk it up to inexperience I suppose.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Of course I'll take the Peach's with tourney experience with more weight but...that still doesn't narrow it down as much

(Bento?) (Raz? Sorry, I wasn't sure whether you were or not :p), Edrees, Sky and Praxis are for it being around the 70:30 region

(Canvas?), Meno, Umbreon, Niko and Dark are for it being around the 60:40/55:45 region


My opinion is pretty much void so I'm slightly stumped as to what I should rate this without causing uproar. Simply disregarding one side is stupid and since both sides have provided arguements as to why they think the match up should be XX:YY...who do I choose without being bias? Who's right on this match up? How do I know that one side isn't doing it wrong or has got things wrong?

Either side has provided points to support their views but no one has really challenged the other side or said to someone else 'I think that's wrong as Peach/MK can do this'. I can't really draw a conclusion

I realise I'm being incredibly unhelpful here and I imagine you're wondering why on earth I'm charge of these match ups but I'd like to get this match up sorted out where everyone is in agreement and people know how to tackle MK best. So far, I'm looking at 60:40 or 65:35 because from I've read, this is basically a classic Sonic out-play-and-predict-and-punish-your-opponent match up for us
 

EdreesesPieces

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Niko K : said 55-45
Dark P said 60-40
Edrees said 70-30
Praxis said 70-30
Sky said 70-30
Meno said 65-35
Raz said 70-30
Canvas said 60-40
Dekuu 65-35

I'd like to see what Hova and Excel Zero thought. I'll ask Bone what he thinks. But looking at this numbers it would be 60-40 minimum, and the average appears to be around 65-35.

What do the Metaknights say?
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I put something on their match up thread but none of them have visited. I can try again if you like. Didn't you take part in their discussion Edrees?

Also, since there's stuff being said about MK being able to Up + B OoS Peach's Dair, is there anything she can do to counter that/get away safely if her Dair approach fails?
 

JigglyZelda003

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i thought his upB goes all around even if you do try to go behind. and i could have swore praxis said he can do it while your Dairing.
 

Dark.Pch

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Getting a legit answer from meta players will be hard. they Since meta is the best character in the game and most of them have no clue what a Peach on point can do to them, they could be bias and say "Peach is just to easy, etc"
 

Eddie G

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Good point Dark, so I suppose mainly asking the top MK players for their input is a valid option, seeing as they would most likely have an unbiased contribution because of their experiences against many matchups.
 

Meru.

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Niko K : said 55-45
Dark P said 60-40
Edrees said 70-30
Praxis said 70-30
Sky said 70-30
Meno said 65-35
Raz said 70-30
Canvas said 60-40
Dekuu 65-35

I'd like to see what Hova and Excel Zero thought. I'll ask Bone what he thinks. But looking at this numbers it would be 60-40 minimum, and the average appears to be around 65-35.

What do the Metaknights say?
The average score is EXACTLY 65-35. And by exactly I mean 65,00-35,00 o.o
 

EdreesesPieces

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Perhaps it's the Sonic Boarder in me but I am seriously against that idea as I've stated before

I will do the write up as best I can soon enough. Match up mentality is going to be a nightmare to do. I think we've 'discussed' just about everything
YOu mean my idea of lying? I was just kidding =)
 

wwwilliam0024

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This MU is just unwinnable, believe me, i SAY unwinnable not in like you cant beat him ever, but more like:

- Peaches need to play to probably their highest level of effort, compared to MK which can beat us in much less effort.
- We are forced to camp in every way, limiting our normal combos + punishes.
- If an MK knows the MU and is playing the MU how its supposed to be, then we peachs are very f*****.
- Limited on the air and on the ground, seems very tough.

The MU can be won! its not like impossible, but seriously, you will never see the BEST peach player taking out the BEST MK player. The few ive seen is in chance of luck, for they take out a bomb and only on friendlies, no peach player has ever made it that far in a big tourney.... :(

I LOVE PLAYING WITH PEACH, SHE IS A VERY FUN CHARACTER AND IF IT WASNT FOR THE GAY BRAWL METAGAME, ID WOULD ONLY USE HER.

But i have other resources for the MKs sadly :S
 

z00ted

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This MU is just unwinnable, believe me, i SAY unwinnable not in like you cant beat him ever, but more like:

- Peaches need to play to probably their highest level of effort, compared to MK which can beat us in much less effort.
- We are forced to camp in every way, limiting our normal combos + punishes.
- If an MK knows the MU and is playing the MU how its supposed to be, then we peachs are very f*****.
- Limited on the air and on the ground, seems very tough.

The MU can be won! its not like impossible, but seriously, you will never see the BEST peach player taking out the BEST MK player. The few ive seen is in chance of luck, for they take out a bomb and only on friendlies, no peach player has ever made it that far in a big tourney.... :(

I LOVE PLAYING WITH PEACH, SHE IS A VERY FUN CHARACTER AND IF IT WASNT FOR THE GAY BRAWL METAGAME, ID WOULD ONLY USE HER.

But i have other resources for the MKs sadly :S
this is so funny
 

Razmakazi

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I take that as an affront to what I can and can't do. Personally, I'm done with mu discussions but I will say that I'm gonna bring the pain.

Oh, and that to a degree I disagree with every single listed item in william's post hmm...'cept maybe the 1st about having to try really hard. But yeah, it's all regurgitated '08 b.s and it lacks thought imo.

aaaaanyway I think a better way to go about mu **** would be to just get on the pch back room or on aim or somewhere that's not public and then we say **** in particular that bothers us about the mu (be super specific!) and then we just list out how we deal with it.

when it comes to mk or snake I feel like these boards always walk that tightrope between realistic and defeatist.
 

Nicole

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OMG PEACH MK IS UNWINNABLE THATS WHY I ALWAYS LOSE TO MK

oh wait i lose to every character EXCEPT mk...

I MUST BE BETTER THAN ALL OF YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!!!!!!! olololololollooolololololoo we all know THAT's true. :psycho:

seriously guys, if you aren't beating mks that are on YOUR level of play you're doing it wrong. its not that hard. its very winnable. if you know the matchup well you should **** whatever mk doesnt know it. if the mk knows it well too you should still be able to win. if the mk is outta your league then you're going to lose. SIMPLE.
 

Eddie G

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because being private about tactics that could be detrimental to other's improvement is the best way to improve the meta-game....
Why not? The Diddies did it for the longest time and they saw great success. The only time I believe everything should be so public is when regions are openly trying to help each other improve and do well out-of-region. I have a suspicion that other character mains (MK included) took a glance at any advancements we've made in the past and took that opportunity to quickly shut us down. Not necessarily true or anything, just a hunch.

Competition comes in many forms. This communistic, hand-holding, "let's help everyone else improve against us and take our money" nonsense should stop imo.
 
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