Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[Praxis]

*raises hand*

I think I know this matchup better than most Peaches I knew Link was coming soon, so I MM'd Deva three times yesterday- each match was double or nothing from the previous match.

I won all three. And Deva's absurdly good (he can beat the best MK in the state) and I <3 him.

60:40 IMO. Peach has an absurdly good gimp game on Link if played right; float-hogging really destroys Link's recovery. Her jab game messes him up (remember, I'm known for my jab-grabs xD ), which makes fair autocancels and jab-grabs REALLY good, and she can combo the CRAP out of him. Dair beats his arrows, and as long as you can powershield really well, you can get through the projectile game.

You can force his recovery angle with turnips and then edgehog or chase with floated nairs and fairs. Link should not recover if he ever falls below the height of the stage lip in this matchup if you know how to do it.

whoever said link can recover suprisingly well because of Link mains' DI skills, i give u a cookie.

Honestly, this is why I don't three stock Deva xD I gimp him when he recovers low, so he DOESN'T. He has the most absurdly, retardedly good DI I've ever seen. You can never ever get him where you want him :x

Also, BAN NORFAIR OR DIE. I have nightmares about Deva on Norfair. I've yet to ever beat him there in a match.

I'd place it as 60-40 Peach. This is based of tournament experience.

While getting inside is something of a problem, once you're inside you completly wreck. He's like Falco, but with easier-to-deal with projectiles and worse close combat options.

And that recovery...
If you can manage throwing him off stage for three matches, you win.

This.


EDIT: I really want to emphasize though; it's Peach advantage, but you have to pay a LOT of attention. You can't just sit back and dair and turn your brain off because it's Link. It's HARD to get inside his range. Once you do, you have him.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Norfair is just too good to Link, lol.

 

[sasook]

next best thing could be ride his boomerange(dependant on the Link). Turnips can open up some interesting approach options like OoS glide toss after blocking a projectile.

is it true that all the Link mains have gone to AiB, it sounds almost unbelievable?

Just be wary, one of the jab lock setups is bringing the opponents back with the boomerang, and then doing a jab combo with proper timing such that they land right in front of you. I'd say if you're gonna ride it back, have a turnip in hand to throw at him while you ride it.

OoS glide tossing > bombsliding IMO

And yes, all the Link mains have moved. We had a huge dispute with the mods, didn't want to deal with it anymore, so we left.

*raises hand*

My favorite Peach =D

I think I know this matchup better than most Peaches I knew Link was coming soon, so I MM'd Deva three times yesterday- each match was double or nothing from the previous match.

I won all three. And Deva's absurdly good (he can beat the best MK in the state) and I <3 him.

60:40 IMO. Peach has an absurdly good gimp game on Link if played right; float-hogging really destroys Link's recovery. Her jab game messes him up (remember, I'm known for my jab-grabs xD ), which makes fair autocancels and jab-grabs REALLY good, and she can combo the CRAP out of him. Dair beats his arrows, and as long as you can powershield really well, you can get through the projectile game.

You can force his recovery angle with turnips and then edgehog or chase with floated nairs and fairs. Link should not recover if he ever falls below the height of the stage lip in this matchup if you know how to do it.

Agreed on everything here.

Honestly, this is why I don't three stock Deva xD I gimp him when he recovers low, so he DOESN'T. He has the most absurdly, retardedly good DI I've ever seen. You can never ever get him where you want him :x

I would absolutely love to see Praxis vs. ArkiveZero lol, it'd be amazing.

Also, BAN NORFAIR OR DIE. I have nightmares about Deva on Norfair. I've yet to ever beat him there in a match.

I don't think anyone beats Deva on Norfair lol.

As said by Arkive:

norfair isn't a link stage

norfair is a Deva stage

i'm completely serious, nobody will EVER get close to playing on norfair like deva. deva is on a completely different level when playing on that stage. i'd say that our matches that we played were pretty even, until i set foot onto norfair. you will not beat deva on norfair.

Praxis, the only question I have to you is about Link's ATs. Granted, you know the Link matchup extremely well, but Deva always plays an extremely basic style. Do you think Link's infinite ATs might throw off Peach a bit?

 

[Praxis]

<3

Praxis, the only question I have to you is about Link's ATs. Granted, you know the Link matchup extremely well, but Deva always plays an extremely basic style. Do you think Link's infinite ATs might throw off Peach a bit?

Hmm, perhaps. Sliding upsmashes and bomb throws might help, but I don't see any matchup-changing ATs- not enough that smart play can't overcome.

I would absolutely love to see Praxis vs. ArkiveZero lol, it'd be amazing.

What's ArkiveZero's style? Basic, like Deva, or over-the-top technical? Does he have Deva's absurd DI? xD

 

[JigglyZelda003]

so boomerang can set up jab locks? interesting, i learned something new today.

 

[sasook]

Hmm, perhaps. Sliding upsmashes and bomb throws might help, but I don't see any matchup-changing ATs- not enough that smart play can't overcome.

DAC
bomb DAC (DAC with bomb in hand)
bombsliding
ZAC - Z drop, Aerial, Catch, basically doing Link's aerials with a bomb/turnip in hand
bombsmashing - doing an fsmash with a bomb/turnip in hand
arrow canceling - may help, may not, just eliminates the startup lag
jab canceling - not a Link-specific AT, just something to look out for
pivot boosting - may be used for mindgames, gives Link the ability to use any move while still moving at his dash speed
jab lock and/or bombstoollocking - be wary for this one, IMO
gale guarding - will not work for this matchup unless the Peach is already floating from her umbrella
wavebouncing - useless, never seen it used in battle, ever
zedging - see gale guarding
bombzairing - doing a zair with a bomb/turnip in hand, probably won't catch Peach off guard at all
craq walking - similar to a small waveland, after some aerials Link's lack of traction lets him do a small retreating slide
smooth booting - see wavebouncing
boomerang canceling - see wavebouncing
invincibombing - not useless, but i've never seen it used in battle
jump canceling - standard AT, not Link-specific
the phantom boomerang - see invincibombing
double/triple arrow - 2 or 3 arrows in one go, it's standard arrow spam

^that's all of them, I've crossed off the useless ones, bolded the ones already mentioned, and highlighted the potentially surprising ones. Lemme know what you think. But yeah, none of them seem to alter the matchup too much.

What's ArkiveZero's style? Basic, like Deva, or over-the-top technical? Does he have Deva's absurd DI? xD

It's not so much his style as it is his DI. He's famous for his DI, it's incredible. Dude just doesn't die before 185% at least.

His style is aggressive though, not like Deva at all lol.



I could have sworn I saw someone ask "why did you guys move, was it that stupid no thread about people rule?" but I guess not.

EDIT: This is Arkive's DI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

EDIT 2:

so boomerang can set up jab locks? interesting, i learned something new today.

There are a lot of setups, that's just one of them.

Set-ups

Now it begs the question of how to actually initiate this awesome technique. Well, there's a couple of ways that are practical. In reality, there's TONS of ways, but only some actually work.

-The Boomerang

This is the simplest method of setting up the jab lock. At close range, the boomerang causes the opponent to be knocked down onto the ground. Well, get in close and jab them. Initiate jab lock. This method is pretty hard to perform because if the opponent techs, there's no way to lock them. Also, getting close enough to the opponent and not being punished for the startup lag by the boomerang is a bit tough.

-Arrows

It really sucks when you see you have a chance for a jab lock, but the opponent is just too far away to run up and jab before they get up. Well, here's where arrows come in handy. An arrow hitting an opponent on the ground provides that same wobble animation. So yes, if you have enough time after hitting them with an arrow, you can continue with a jab lock. If not, they will be forced to stand, and you can just punish them.

-Boomerang Arrow Cancel Lock (BACL)

Combining the knowledge of both the boomerang and arrows, we have the Boomerang Arrow Cancel Lock. This works at any percentage, and what happens is they are hit with the boomerang very closely so they are knocked onto the ground. Now, you could run up and jab, but for added security, after the boomerang throw, you can arrow cancel and put them in a wobble animation, and THEN run up and jab or wait for them to stand and punish.

If you're smart and your opponent doesn't tech, you can make a full chain out of this. Knock them down with the boomerang, shoot an arrow, and knock them down again once they standup.

Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9f6_8rhh3k

-Boomerang Drawback/Pull

Another way to set up a jab lock is to use the boomerang's pulling effects to your advantage. By pulling your opponent in while they are still in hitstun will make them land on the ground and allow you to jab them as they land right next to you.

One method is to throw a boomerang behind your opponent. It doesn't matter how, just jump over him or something. Next, as your boomerang starts to return, use your jab combo. It doesn't matter if the first two don't hit, just make sure the third stab does. The stun from the stab and the pulling of the boomerang will make the opponent land right next to you. You know what to do from here.

Another method which is very similar to the first is to use a forward throw rather than the jab combo. It's nearly identical; throw the boomerang behind your opponent, and grab your opponent. Pummel them until the boomerang has almost returned, then use a forward throw. The stun from the throw and the pulling of the boomerang will make them land right in front of you. The pummeling is simply to take up time while the boomerang comes back around. An alternative to this would be to false jab cancel and then grab, which is probably better because it increases your chances of successfully grabbing. Either way, you just need to the opponent to hold still.

Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZxADIzXx3M (Note: you don't HAVE to roll behind your opponent if you just throw the boomerang early enough so you land in front of them.)

For both of these, be sure to use a weak boomerang throw. It will take less time to come back.

The last method is similar to the second. Instead of throwing the boomerang behind your opponent, throw it away from him, behind you. Then grab and do a back throw. The result is the same as the forward version. Try whatever works for you.

Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QowOeJSFu4

-Bomb Footstool Combo (Bombstoollocking)

This one is tricky to pull off, but has the highest success rate. To perform this, take out a bomb and hop over the opponent. Either throw it down or just drop it, and as the opponent rises, footstool them. Footstools cannot be teched, so them landing on the ground is guaranteed. Next, fast fall and initiate the jab combo. You can also fast fall neutral air, which would give a little more stun as it connects with the opponent on the ground, or fast fall arrow cancel, having the same effect as the neutral air. Again, it's very hard to pull off, but since footstools cannot be teched, it has the highest success rate.

Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTWL01pmXlU

There are MANY ways to set up a jab lock, tons and tons, and so they will not be listed. The most practical ones have been stated, and for the rest, a video has been provided.

Here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e291cu7khzE

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Just so the Link mains are aware, a lot of those Bomb techs are known by us Peachs because we can do them with our Turnips Except you guys have the jump boost throwing thing and we have Glide Tossing

Here's my take on the match up. I'd put it at 60:40 Peach

It is crucial that you can perfect shield Link's arrows and boomerang. Shield his bombs or jump our the way of them. Link has a Zair so if you Float predictably/far away, Link can knock you out of the sky with a combination of his Zair/projectiles. He's also got a sword which can make things tricky

Once you get past all of Link's array of projectiles, unleash all hell on him. Dair's work well because of his weight. Turnips are good on the ground but even better in the air. Unlike Samus, you can Toad Link's Zair and get away with it most of the time because of it's 2nd hit which is pretty weak. If the spores hit him, great. If they don't, chances are the 2nd hit of the Zair will knock you out of the Toad animation

Link has horrendous recovery. Gimp him by any means necessary. Turnips, Floating, aerials...try to force him to recover from below. Be aware that Link's Zair acts as a tether recovery so watch out for his Zair ledge ---> continually Zairing tricks. Once you get Link off the stage, be prepared to edge guard him

Remember, just like Toon Link, DO NOT attempt to hit Link with aerials (e.g. your Fair) whilst he's using his Dair. You'll regret it believe me as it's one of his strongest attacks

Edit: That reminds me. I've been sorted the OP out and I've highlighted some of the match ups in Yellow

These are match ups that I think we should at the very least take another glance at some time in the near future. Any queries - just let me know

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i can understand MK, snake and Marth since its been a while since we've done them. but we just did the mother kids a while ago, and idk about Zelda, but im alright w/ them. i think wolf should be redone too, but thats just me

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ness and Lucas - We never reached a proper conclusion of what each character could do to each other, what the numbers were, how someone could counter something (lolpkfire) etc...so I think they need another look at

And Zelda - meh that's my bad. I highlighted her in yellow because I think I might have found a legitmate use for Peach's Down Tilt xD She's not top on my list of match ups we should go over though so I'll remove the highlight

It's mainly the match ups that were discussed ages ago. Things may have changed

 

[Praxis]

I think we should redo ROB (60:40 Peach's favor IMO), Falco (not as bad as MK/Marth/Snake but it's not even, definitely his favor IMO), Metaknight (IMO, really, really bad at high levels when MK knows the matchup. Peach's worst?), and Marth (also potentially Peach's worst?).

I don't understand why matchups we just did- like the mother kids (that was LAST WEEK), and Zelda- are yellow. :/

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Again, we never reached a proper conclusion for the mother kids because of disagreements from both sides. I'll remove the highlight if everyone thinks I should. I've removed Zelda's. I'm such a scrub scrub scrub...

We did Wario last week? Wario was done quite a while ago from what I recall and the Wario match up thread has it down 60:40 our favour so I'm wondering if anything has changed and why we've got them both different. There's also all the air camping stuff they've been sorting out which might have an effect on the match up

 

[JigglyZelda003]

ROB vs peach feels easily stage altered to me, stupid FD.....

and yeah the mother kids one was a bit akward, but we should save them for a bit later since we did just do them.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Right, the mother boys have been de-highlighted. And I forgot about ROB and Falco - thanks Praxis

I'll get the write ups for the characters I feel confident on done soon. I'll take more time to write up the characters that didn't get as much/as good a discussion

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think we should redo ROB (60:40 Peach's favor IMO), Falco (not as bad as MK/Marth/Snake but it's not even, definitely his favor IMO), Metaknight (IMO, really, really bad at high levels when MK knows the matchup. Peach's worst?), and Marth (also potentially Peach's worst?).

I don't understand why matchups we just did- like the mother kids (that was LAST WEEK), and Zelda- are yellow. :/

Are you saying Falco has the advantage vs Peach?

 

[Cia]

i haven't really played any good links as peach, so i'm just gonna sit out on this one. i'll probably be back when you guys get around to Peach v Jigglypuff.

oh, and i don't think marth is anything close to being Peach's worst match up.

 

[Praxis]

Are you saying Falco has the advantage vs Peach?

No no, "definitely his favor IMO" certainly doesn't mean I think he has the advantage over Peach >_>


Yeah, Falco has the advantage over Peach, and I'm pretty sure most Peaches agree with that. All the more reasons to discuss it again though.

oh, and i don't think marth is anything close to being Peach's worst match up.

Personally, I think it's a defensive Metaknight that knows the Peach matchup, but a few people have argued Marth to me, so I put that in.

G&W is often considered Peach's worst, but I <3 that matchup. XD

 

[Dark.Pch]

No no, "definitely his favor IMO" certainly doesn't mean I think he has the advantage over Peach >_>


Yeah, Falco has the advantage over Peach, and I'm pretty sure most Peaches agree with that. All the more reasons to discuss it again though.



Personally, I think it's a defensive Metaknight that knows the Peach matchup, but a few people have argued Marth to me, so I put that in.

G&W is often considered Peach's worst, but I <3 that matchup. XD

Sorry but after what I seen, done and beat. Falco does not have the advantage. it's ether in Peach's Favor or even. But no way he has this. If it is about his lazors, I'm not gonna go through this again. It's nothing.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

i haven't really played any good links as peach, so i'm just gonna sit out on this one. i'll probably be back when you guys get around to Peach v Jigglypuff.

oh, and i don't think marth is anything close to being Peach's worst match up.

Marth is one of the harder ones though so I've highlighted him incase things have changed

And on a first view, it wouldn't surprise me if Peach vs Jigglypuff is 65:35/70:30

 

[Morrigan]

Something tells me it's not 65:30 nor 70:30

She may be stupid but definitely better than Link IMO

 

[Praxis]

Marth is one of the harder ones though so I've highlighted him incase things have changed

And on a first view, it wouldn't surprise me if Peach vs Jigglypuff is 65:35/70:30

What, really? It's probably Peach advantage, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was even. Jiggly's air game is absurdly good, forces you to stick to the ground. Luckily Peach's ground attacks are really good anti-air moves, but Jiggs still seems to do pretty well.

 

[Morrigan]

Her downside is...if you think Peach is light (which she is), Jigglypuff is EXTREMELY FEATHER-LIGHT

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Well I haven't fought many good Jigglypuffs so definitly don't take my word for it

It's just in my experience, Peach's aerials can eat Jigglypuffs. Rollout is pretty much useless and is a free Dair for Peach. Peach also has a projectile and Toad can effectivly stop Jiggs aerials

But honestly, I don't know the match up very well

Edit: Pound has crazy priority though. It's not much of a killer though and can be fairly punishable when missed

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Jigglypuff is mostly deadly around the mid-percents where she can WoP Peach to the most effect. But at low percents and high percents, Peach can out manuever out of the WoP. Then again, high percents, you're bound to die from Bair or a Dair Rest.

I think Jiggly puff beats Peach in priority of aerials in at least half of them. But only in in a short instance before the move turns into the second hitbox and has weak knockback.

 

[MrEh]

And on a first view, it wouldn't surprise me if Peach vs Jigglypuff is 65:35/70:30

Haha, jk.

Seriously though, Jiggs is 50:50 MINIMUM. It might even be in her advantage.

 

[Airgemini]

Oh!!! I'd be happy to do the Jp match up!
I've been studying her intensively lately and it's not as much in Peach's advantage as you would think.
I would say AT LEAST 50/50 or 55/45 Peach's favor.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Fox, Shiek and ZSS are done!

Well that shows it - it would appear I have no proper knowledge on the JP match up xD I'll sit that one out for sure

The write ups for Fox, Shiek and ZSS are done btw. Zelda, PT, Bowser, Ness, Lucas, Peach dittos and Link (when he's been covered) will be following on soon. I'm away next week so I'll try and get them done before then. I haven't put in quotes yet as I still need to select the best and I've kind of abandoned the idea of summaries because I'm no good at writing them. Please everyone - be sure to at least take a glance at the write ups to check they're ok/provide good info - especially if you contributed a lot to them

If I don't end up changing the discussion because I'm away (lol I'm slacking aready xD) please decide amongst yourselves who to do (which is what we do anyway so yea)

 

[JigglyZelda003]

on Fox you can toad shine, but its not very practical. just mentioning.

 

[Airgemini]

I think we should just collect dust until Ricks all finished ^^

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I think we should just collect dust until Ricks all finished ^^

Eh?

I'd rather you didn't :x keep discussing Link...unless you've discussed everything already? D: If you really don't have anything to do, then discuss this for a bit:


Call me cuckoo but for some reason, I find it better to use Peach's Dair with her facing away from her opponent than when she's facing them

I'm talking about the back part of her legs when she's doing a Dair---->

I don't what but...has it got a biger hitbox? More priority? I swear there's something better about it but I can't just tell what it is...or whether it's me being stupid as usual

 

[sasook]

Can't Link TDI out of Peach's dair? Genuine question, I dunno the answer.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

i think you can, but its not easy,idk really.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Can't Link TDI out of Peach's dair? Genuine question, I dunno the answer.

Every character in this game can.

 

[Cia]

OMG, Mew2king showed me that Dedede can smash DI right out of Peach's Dair. so in theory, Dair combos don't exist.

:[

 

[deepseadiva]

Reality > Theory.

Glad most players aren't M2K. ^^

 

[Morrigan]

Spoiler

DI. Peach's worst enemy.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Di applies to everything really, So I don't see the craze about being to escape something. -.-;

 

[Praxis]

Eh?

I'd rather you didn't :x keep discussing Link...unless you've discussed everything already? D: If you really don't have anything to do, then discuss this for a bit:


Call me cuckoo but for some reason, I find it better to use Peach's Dair with her facing away from her opponent than when she's facing them

I'm talking about the back part of her legs when she's doing a Dair---->

I don't what but...has it got a biger hitbox? More priority? I swear there's something better about it but I can't just tell what it is...or whether it's me being stupid as usual

I agree. I think it's just better to avoid punishment that way, because her hurtbox can be moved behind the opponents shield and you can fall behind them.

I dunno, I just feel safer if I can line up a dair like that too.

 

[Praxis]

Can't Link TDI out of Peach's dair? Genuine question, I dunno the answer.

Yeah, so can Link.
Technically, you can TDI out of Metaknight's ftilt, G&W's bair, and Pit's fsmash as well.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Eh?

I'd rather you didn't :x keep discussing Link...unless you've discussed everything already? D: If you really don't have anything to do, then discuss this for a bit:


Call me cuckoo but for some reason, I find it better to use Peach's Dair with her facing away from her opponent than when she's facing them

I'm talking about the back part of her legs when she's doing a Dair---->

I don't what but...has it got a biger hitbox? More priority? I swear there's something better about it but I can't just tell what it is...or whether it's me being stupid as usual

yea I will call you crazy on this one. Her body slants and she is left nearly open on that move from the back. That is one of the eaist ways to take her down. Look at it very closly, and if you think it is false, test it out.

 

[Sky`]

Falco is... 50/50with peach....