Meta Peach Tactical Discussion: Frame data in first post!

[Meru.]

Peach Boards Overview (WIP)

Peach Frame Data

Link to Peach's Complete Frame Data: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Peach​

THE OPENING POST IS STILL A WORK IN PROGRESS!!!
As you can still it's still very ugly and unfinished. We shall finish it in time, little by little :3.

Moves Overview

BASIC ATTACKS

Jab
Peach does a quick two-hit slap. Jab hits on frame 2, which means it’s one of the fastest moves in the game and the fastest move she has. Jab 2 puts your opponent far enough for you to catch your breath, but close enough to continue pressuring them. Unlike many other jabs however, jab1 cannot safely combo into a grab or other moves.

Jab is usually used after another move to cover you. You can use it after smashes such as Usmash or Fsmash to counter your opponent's punish attempts. Jab is used very often after ground float Nair. Nair is only -2 on shield, so if you jab immediately after doing ground float, Jab will beat their attempt to shieldgrab you. Keep in mind that jab is very unsafe, so if they hold shield, they can punish jab's lag. If they hold shield, grab them. In summary, it works like this:

Nair their shield:
Does your opponent shieldgrab or try another out of shield option?
If yes -> jab will slap them before they can do it.
Does your opponent hold their shield after your Nair?
If yes -> grab them.

In this way, jab can punish many grab attempts.

Strengths

• Due to its fast start-up, this move is excellent to get people of you. If you feel you’re getting pressured a lot, using this move will help you a lot.
• When getting approached, especially by a fast character, jab may stop their approaching attempts.

Weaknesses

• Compared to many other jabs, its range is poor.
• Laggy. You can sometimes get away unpunished if you space it perfectly, but otherwise you will usually get shieldgrabbed.

Things to know:

Combos From:Neutral Air
Combos To:N/A
Frame Data:
Jab1 Active Frames: 2-3 FAF: 28 2%
Jab2 Active Frames: 2-3 FAF: 30 3%

Dash Attack
Peach does a running, sparkly, 2-hit, shove. This move comes out fast and it actually kills at very decent percentages! Tip: you can perform an instant Dash Attack by tapping Dash and doing a Dsmash. This way you will be able to do a Dash Attack instantly from neutral. (Applicable to every character.)

Dash Attack is an important move in Peach's arsenal. This move is amazing for punishing. This move comes out fast, has some serious range and a disjointed hitbox, and you can do it out a Dash (duh). Laggy smashes or moves, rolls, landings, dashes… everything can be punished by Dash Attack!

Everything that is -13 on shield can in theory be punished with Dash Attack, although some moves are harder to react to than others (ZSS Ftilt is -13, but it's so fast that it's hard to punish consistently). Most smashes (except for the safe ones like Meta Knight's Fsmash, Ganon's Usmash etc) are unsafe however, and can be punished consistently with Dash Attack. Don't let Mario get away with that Usmash, you can always punish it with Dash Attack out of shield!

This move can also be used as a fast ground mid-range option, something Peach does not have a lot of. Coming out on frame 6, this move is fast and combined with its very good range, you may sometimes want to use this move to hit your opponent at mid-range. I wouldn’t recommend using it too much because it’s unsafe on shield and whiff. Be sure you’re actually going to hit your opponent.

If you space it well and hit the opponent’s shield with the tip of disjointed hitbox, you can avoid shield grabs or OoS Usmashes. However, due to the nature of the move, it’s very hard to space it decently.

Strengths

• Fast start-up (frame 6)
• Great range (disjointed)
• Kills (from about 145% without rage)

Weaknesses

• This move is unsafe. It’s about -13 on block, which means you’re open to grabs and some Usmashes.
• Opponents will sometimes fall out of it. Always be prepared for this. You can sometimes score a Jab, Ftilt or Grab on them if they fall out of it, or you can just shield their punishing attempts, or you can react to their rolls/second jump etc.

Things to know

Combos From: Neutral Air
Combos To: N/A
Frame Data:
Active Frames: 6-9, 17-19 FAF: 38 4% - 6%

Forward Tilt
Peach does a high kick. It's used often after a Dthrow at very low percents. It's decently fast, but it suffers from a lot of lag, which keeps many players from using this move.

Ftilt is not used very often by Peach players. Aside from the horrendous lag, the range is a bit lacking for an Ftilt when compared to other very good Ftilts like ZSS or Fox. The good thing, however, is that it can serve as a good anti-aerial. On top of that, the tip can kill at about 155% without rage, so at high percents or with a lot of rage you might score some surprising kills with it.


Strengths

• Decently fast (frame 7 early hitbox, frame 8 tip)
  
• Good anti-air hitbox, that also lingers (hits till frame 15)

Weaknesses

• This move has some serious lag. It’s not a safe poke.

Combos From: Down Tilt, Down Throw
Combos To: Parasol

Frame Data:
Active Frames: 8-15 FAF: 37 7/8%


Up tilt: Peach summons hearts above her. With its disjoint, this move is decent at poking opponents standing on platforms. The sweetspot of the move is located in her body. Similarly to Ftilt, however, it comes with a fair share of lag.

Utilt is rarely used because of it's lack of horizontal range, the hitbox not staying out very long for an anti-air, its horrendous lag and poor reward unless hit with the sweetspot (which is very hard). You can use Utilt when they happen to be on top of you and you want a quick hitbox out to hit them. Otherwise, there's not much use to this move.

Strengths

• Good range on top of her.
• Okay-ish start-up
• Sweetspot is strong

Weaknesses

• Very laggy
• Low reward on sourspot
• Sweetspot is nearly impossible to hit with
• Bad horizontal range

Things to know

Combos From:Down Tilt
Combos To: Parasol
Frame Data:
Active Frames: 9-13 FAF: 38 8/10%

Down Tilt
Peach does a low slap at her opponent's feet. The amount of hitstun this move has is pretty ridiculous making this an amazing combo starter. At high percents, this leads to a Fair, Uair or, perhaps most reliable of all, Parasol for the kill.

Strengths

· This move is one of the most ranged and has the least lag out of all of her ground attacks, making it a very decent spacing tool against grounded opponents.

· The reward on this move is great. Because of the hitstun, you are always guaranteed to get a follow-up until about 160% (without rage). At a higher percent, Dtilt combos into Parasol for guaranteed kills. If you have rage, Parasol can kill at a surprisingly early percent!

Weaknesses

· Hitting on frame 13, it comes out pretty late.

· Only hits grounded opponents.


Combos From: Nothing
Combos To: EVERYTHING
Remember:Down Tilt → Ground Float Neutral Air, Down Tilt → Up Air, Down Tilt → Forward Air, Down Tilt → Down Air, Down Tilt → Parasol, Uair Spike > Dtilt

Frame Data:
Active Frames: 13-14 FAF: 28 7% Arm Intangibility: 9-14

SMASH ATTACKS

Forward Smash:
Peach whacks her opponent with a Frying Pan, Golf Club, or Tennis Racket. Fsmash range is disjointed (duh). All Smashes are good killing options, although one better than the other. The Golf Club comes in a set order: Tennis Racket → Golf Club → Frying Pan.

Strengths

· The Frying Pan deals the most damage, knockback and shieldstun of all Fsmashes. It can score kills very early and reliably. Thanks to its high damage, it leaves you at the least frame disadvantage of all Fsmashes.

· The Tennis Racket kills the earliest if you’re close to the ledge thanks to its horizontal angle. Its angle can also make it very hard for opponents to recover and is great for setting up an edgeguard.

· The Golf Club is one of her most ranged moves in general. Both the horizontal and vertical range are great. It can even hit opponents standing at Battlefield’s platforms!

· Aside from being a good killing options, All smashes serve as good anti-aerials because of their wide hitbox (especially Golf Club’s hitbox is very big).

Weaknesses

· Frying Pan has the least range.

· Racket deals the least damage and shieldstun, and from the middle of the stage kills much later than Pan and only a little bit earlier than Golf Club.

· Golf Club is generally the worst at killing.

· Being a Fsmash it comes out pretty slow (frame 15) and has considerable lag.

Combos From: Down Tilt
Combos To: N/A
Remember: Down Tilt → Forward Smash
Frame Data:
Active Frames: 15-17 FAF: 46 Frying Pan 18% Golf Club 15% Tennis Racket 13%

Up Smash:Peach does a twirl with a gymnast ribbon. This is hands-down her strongest move when it's sweet-spotted. This single move can change entire games. It can also poke through some platforms.

Strengths

· The sweetspot is SUPER STRONG, and the sourspot kills pretty early too. Always look for opportunities to hit with this moves. Looks for rolls, spotdodges, landings, ledge rolls and shorthops.

· Decent vertical range (with invincibility on the her arm and head on frame 14-20) makes it easier to hit on characters with high shorthops such as ZSS or Ike.

· Can be done out of shield instantly by inputting Jump > Usmash. This gives you a frame 14 punish. Usmash out of shield all unsafe Dash Attacks!

Weakness

· Unsafe. You can sometimes get away with it because of its high shieldstun/pushback, but if the opponent reacts fast enough you’re likely to be punished.

· A bit poor horizontal range.

Combos From:Down TiltCombos To:N/A
Remember: Down Tilt → Up Smash
Frame Data:
Active Frames: 14-20 FAF: 45 12/15/17% Arm and Head Intangibility Frames: 14-20

Down Smash:Peach spins around in her dress. It deals knockback on the last hit.

Strengths

· Super long duration making it an excellent roll and spotdodge killer. The hitbox lasts for 21 frames!

· Fast start-up. Good for punishes stuff like spotdodges if you’re unsure whether Usmash/Fsmash will make it on time to hit them.

· Hits in front of her as well as behind her.

Weaknesses

· BY FAR the most unsafe move she has. If this get shielded at mid to high percentages, consider yourself dead. This move is at least -20 on shield. It can be punished easily with slightly charged Fsmashes. Make sure this move doesn’t get shielded!

· Its range isn’t spectacular by any means.

·
Combos From:N/ACombos To:N/A
Remember: The duration of the move is longer than a spotdodge.

Frame Data:Active Frames: 6-22, 26-27
FAF: 55
Max Damage: 14% (uncharged)

AERIALS

Aerials: the best part of Peach. Before we get to the aerials, here’s one thing I would like to say that applies to all of her aerials: while I may say that Nair comes out on frame 5, and Fair on frame 16, remember that you have to jump before doing aerials (duh), and jumping takes 5 frames. This means that you have to add five frames to the start-up of your aerials if you want to do them from a grounded position. So, a ground float Nair comes out on frame 10 from a standing position, a not on frame 5. Needless to say, if your already in the air, the jumpsquat start-up frames do not apply (since you don’t have to jump), and your Nair will come out on frame 5.

Neutral Air:
Peach spins around in the air. This move comes out pretty fast and has low landing lag, making it one of her safest options on shield. It's one of her fastest out of shield options and is great at punishing. You’re likely going to be using this move a lot, especially its ground float variant.

Strengths:

· Low start-up and low landing lag. Ground Float Nair is only -6 on shield! If you space it well, or float a bit backwards before landing you should be safe. Vs. opponent who do not react quick enough you can sometimes even get a grab of a shielded Nair! If you expect your opponent to grab, jabbing them might be a good idea, or land outside their grab range and punish their whiffed grab.

· Ground Float Nair combos into a dash attack or follows up into a grab.

· Decently strong.

· Hitboxes cover her whole body. Against character who like to full hop or stay airborne a lot, shorthopping or fullhopping Nair can be a pretty good option.

· Good OoS option. It’s fast and hits both behind as well as in front of her. In order to increase its range, float pressing forward (or backward, depending on where your opponent stands) AND down at the same time, instead of only down. You will float a bit towards your opponent while doing Nair. If you do it will, ground float Nair OoS has more range than jab or grab OoS (it’s a bit slower though)

· Long duration.

Weaknesses

· Lacks a little bit in the range department. This move will have to be used in close quarter combat. Another good option is dashing towards your opponent and then do a ground float Nair, but unlike moves such as Fair or Bair, you will be throwing yourself to your opponent.


Combos From: Down Tilt, Down Air, Up Air
Combos To: Jab, Dash Attack
Remember: Down Air → Neutral Air, Neutral Air → Grab, Down Tilt → Neutral Air, Neutral Air → Jab, Neutral Air → Dash Attack
Frame Data:
Active Frames: 5-19 FAF: 49 Max Damage: 13% Landing Lag Frames: 11

AERIALS AND THROWS ARE NOT DONE YET.

Specials

Why does the first hit of UpB kill sometimes? Is it possible to autocancel your SideB? What kind of turnips and items can you pull? Everything you ever wanted to know about side specials is written in @Mikey Lenetia and @Peachkid's excellent and very detailed specials attacks guide. All credits go to them!

 

[deepseadiva]

SO EXCITED

I think she will certainly be viable. She wasn't nerfed to death and she still seems to be a very tightly-controllable and strong character with a projectile. That said, if her weak KO abilities, and her struggle with projectiles is still an issue, she may not be worth maining alone.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Thank you for making this @ M Meru. A thread similar to this had been on mind! I like the idea of using this thread initially as a place to collate people's initial impression of Peach.

Smash 4 is looking a lot more balanced than Brawl and so far, there doesn't appear to be any MK's or IC's (quite literally for the latter) so I have high hopes. I'm very excited to try out Peach Bomber and F Smash specifically when I do get my hands on the game!

 

[CandyCakes]

She seems to have better killing power while she lost damage output even. She can still rack up damage so it isn't really a problem but now she lost a reliable projectile. There r just too slow now. I think her down-smash can be good at racking up percents. Her b-throw, dash attack, U-smash, Fryingpan and tennis racket, R reliable kill moves but I have discovered some combos
D-throw>F-tilt>peach-bomber
D-air>F-air
D-throw>U-air>doublejump>N-air
So I think she be high-mid tier this game or even high tier but well see

 

[Meru.]

SO EXCITED

I think she will certainly be viable. She wasn't nerfed to death and she still seems to be a very tightly-controllable and strong character with a projectile. That said, if her weak KO abilities,

Killing doesn't really feel like an issue anymore, since Fair kills early and Racket/Pan kill retardedly early,

and her struggle with projectiles is still an issue, she may not be worth maining alone.

but this can be an issue, especially with the removal of autocancel Fair. Of course turnips having extra lag doesn't help either but that just a few frame (5 at best). The turnip nerf isn't that bad imo, but the Fair one makes approaching somewhat harder now. Fortunately we have some turnip throw lag cancel gimmicks but I have honestly got no clue how safe that is (For Glory opponents aren't that great at punishing). If somebody could expiriment with this with two 3DS, that would be great.

I feel Yoshi may be tough, mainly because of his eggs. They're faster than turnips, stop aerial approaches, stop Peach Bomber and pretty much the only way you can approach is dash and shield or float > airdodge > downB turnip throw.

 

[Dark.Pch]

now she lost a reliable projectile. There r just too slow now.

Sorry but gonna have to disagree with you there. That turnip is no where need useless. You can't let one thing about her turnips think is complete crap when there are so much stuff along with it. Let me paint a picture for you.

You said its useless cause of its speed right. That's one thing I hear for you. Yet you ignore every thing else that is good.

- Help to cancel your air moves
- Shield pressure on shield
- Helps sniff out projectiles as cover to help get in/close in on the opponent.
- A FREE kill on the opponent at death % with Zdrop to nair
- Reusable.
- Extended combos such as FC Dair > FC Dair> Double jump > Turnip toss >Nair/up-B
- Footstool stool reset.
- Quick Out of shield option.
- Free decent out of shield damage with a Z drop foot stool combo.
- Good for edguarding. Trap people on the ledge.

Let me explain this ledge trap for a sex. In this game you have only one invincible ledge grab. After that, you don't get any of it back even if you regrab the ledge. So if someone was to jump on stage of regrab the ledge again. You can Z drop the turnip and hit them off with dair. Same way as if one was to jump from the ledge. Keep in mind that when on the ledge people can not move right away. So if they regrab the ledge, that is a free hit. They can not quickly do another action. This is a FREE punish. This will force people to get back on stage at this moment some how. Or have no choice but to dip and sweet spot a perfect up B to throw and throw off your timing. You are at an advantage in this situation.

See? You looked at one bad thing and ignored all the other things you could do. You can't think like that dude. Stop focusing so much on bad things and look at the good. I have one bad think about turnips and the trade for that is of this? Man, GIVE-ME-THAT-****!

**Tricks:

Due to the new ledge system, if people grab the ledge for the second time, you can turnip cancel to a foot stool. They cant do a dam thing about it. They don't get their invincibility back and they can not move for s short period of time. So you can get a foot stool and get instant deaths on characters like DK and bowser. Now even if this does not kill some characters cause they have high vertical recovery, you do not get your auto sweetspot on the ledge. You only get it once. So you can get some times like a Dtilt spike out of her Dtilt or a possible Dsmash spike. Or Dair. She is freaking destructionagainst one on the ledge.

 

[DrakeRowan]

Speaking of the ledge, has there been any guaranteed followups for Peach when someone is trumped off the ledge? (I'd test myself, but I'm not getting the game until 10:00a est)

 

[Dark.Pch]

I'll test it once I have the game.

 

[CandyCakes]

Sorry but gonna have to disagree with you there. That turnip is no where need useless. You can't let one thing about her turnips think is complete crap when there are so much stuff along with it. Let me paint a picture for you.

You said its useless cause of its speed right. That's one thing I hear for you. Yet you ignore every thing else that is good.

- Help to cancel your air moves
- Shield pressure on shield
- Helps sniff out projectiles as cover to help get in/close in on the opponent.
- A FREE kill on the opponent at death % with Zdrop to nair
- Reusable.
- Extended combos such as FC Dair > FC Dair> Double jump > Turnip toss >Nair/up-B
- Footstool stool reset.
- Quick Out of shield option.
- Free decent out of shield damage with a Z drop foot stool combo.
- Good for edguarding. Trap people on the ledge.

Let me explain this ledge trap for a sex. In this game you have only one invincible ledge grab. After that, you don't get any of it back even if you regrab the ledge. So if someone was to jump on stage of regrab the ledge again. You can Z drop the turnip and hit them off with dair. Same way as if one was to jump from the ledge. Keep in mind that when on the ledge people can not move right away. So if they regrab the ledge, that is a free hit. They can not quickly do another action. This is a FREE punish. This will force people to get back on stage at this moment some how. Or have no choice but to dip and sweet spot a perfect up B to throw and throw off your timing. You are at an advantage in this situation.

See? You looked at one bad thing and ignored all the other things you could do. You can't think like that dude. Stop focusing so much on bad things and look at the good. I have one bad think about turnips and the trade for that is of this? Man, GIVE-ME-THAT-****!

**Tricks:

Due to the new ledge system, if people grab the ledge for the second time, you can turnip cancel to a foot stool. They cant do a dam thing about it. They don't get their invincibility back and they can not move for s short period of time. So you can get a foot stool and get instant deaths on characters like DK and bowser. Now even if this does not kill some characters cause they have high vertical recovery, you do not get your auto sweetspot on the ledge. You only get it once. So you can get some times like a Dtilt spike out of her Dtilt or a possible Dsmash spike. Or Dair. She is freaking destructionagainst one on the ledge.

I think it'll still be useful but it won't be used as much since u are open to hits for 3seconds, it will be used for approuchs but imo it won't be used as much

 

[Meru.]

Ok so a few things.

Fair has a lot more shieldstun and pushback than in Brawl and I have actually many opponents whiff their grab when they tried to shieldgrab a decently spaced Fair. I hope someone can test how safe Fair and Fair > turnip throw is on shield. Can Fair > turnip throw be interrupted and is turnip throw safe itself? Can Fair be dashgrabbed on shield?

I don't think I'm the only one who thinks Nair's landing lag has been decreased, right? Ground Floating Nair feels much faster and safer.

Bthrow is stronger than I thought. It kills mid-weights at around 135% if you're with your back close to the side and at around 170% from the middle. Pummelling is much better in this game too so if they're at 130%, you can pummel them around three times and then kill them.

Dash Attack is also really strong, killing reliably at around 150%. The range is crazy, it's fast and at lower %s puts people in an awful position.

Dtilt has a million of hitstun. The start-up is still a bit slow (frame 10 like in Brawl I would guess) but if it hits you can combo off it, even at higher percents. Dthrow is also very decent for combos. Dthrow and Bthrow are her best throws probably.

Ftilt and Utilt aren't anything spectacular. Ftilt kills at 170% now and doesn't have three hitboxes and Utilt has a bit less range and doesn't kill at all.

Jab is still used the same way as in Brawl but the range is a bit less so sadly it's prone to whiffing. It's still decent regardless, but not as good as in Brawl.

Uair beats every opponent's Dair and it's an amazing pressure tool for airborne opponents since the range is great and it's super fast. It doesn't have a lot of hitstun though so combo's aren't too crazy, but you can still juggle well with it because of its range, speed and an actually existing second jump.

Fsmash is really strong but... I somehow never hit with this. It's probably also because of the lack of a C-stick and decent controls but I don't connect with this move too often, which is a pity since it can kill retardedly early. Pan kills around 90%-100% and is only a little bit weaker than Usmash. Racket kills very early too, albeit a bit later than Pan, but it puts opponents in the most horrible position to recover. Character with underwhelming recovers will not be able to recover if hit at around 100% (maybe even a bit less) from the middle.

 

[an1bal]

I havent found a straight answer to this. Bottom line, overall was she buffed or nerfed?

 

[z00ted]

Disgustingly buffed. Like, she lost some speed but holy **** the combos are real. D-Tilt and D-Smash are the future. Things don't combo the same way as before due to U-Air not being as good (imo) but you can improvise a lot more and it's actually very easy to bait airdodges among tons of other stuff cause of the change in the game's mechanics.

She's a serious threat in the air at any percentage but ESPECIALLY high. She kills at 90%+ easy w/ the proper read and spacing. This may sound weird but I feel like she's the happy medium between Brawl Peach and Melee. Does anyone else agree so far?

Also B-Air is a ridiculously strong spacing tool. There's so many things I'm loving about this character, definitely high tier potential I'm thinking. Especially when you take into consideration this game's new mechanics offstage. If she would have kept a few things from Brawl w/ this strength (bit more speed and lagless F-Air) she would easily be top tier, although I can see potential for her getting there. A lot of it is dependent on how dominant the shield game develops in this Smash's metagame.

 

[Meru.]

I havent found a straight answer to this. Bottom line, overall was she buffed or nerfed?

She may feel nerfed in the beginning since people will try to play her the way they have played her in previous game, which is obviously not very effective, but the more you play with her, the more you discover how ridiculous she is. I'd say she's buffed for now.

 

[CandyCakes]

Omg her dair breaks shields after 2 times like that's crazy and then their options are limited after a dair because they can't shield again

UAir has so much priority and is great for combos imp and it's just a great approuch and combo tool

Fair is so much better this game since it's strength was buffed and it has lots of hitstun and Is good for spacing

Bair and nair I feel is the same

Usmash and tennis racket and frying pan kills EARLY

dsmash is good for racking up percents

F-tilt is good for combos but i don't like her U-tilt now

Her d-tilt has so much hitstun like I think it has the most in the whole game

Peach bomber is so good like its a miracle

Her parasol looks like it goes higher now and it's a good stage spike and the finishing hit on it is strong now so

I love how she's turning out

 

[z00ted]

She may feel nerfed in the beginning since people will try to play her the way they have played her in previous game, which is obviously not very effective, but the more you play with her, the more you discover how ridiculous she is. I'd say she's buffed for now.

100% in agreement. Anyone who's transferring from Brawl to Smash 4 isn't going to really "get it" for about a good hour or two but once you start figuring out what works and what doesn't and your opponent repeatedly dies at 100% under 40 seconds a stock it becomes very apparent.

 

[Razmakazi]

to prepare I've just been watching Armada videos lol. From what I've seen it's definitely accurate for you (Illmatic) to say that she strikes a balance between Melee/Brawl.

 

[ffdgh]

Disgustingly buffed. Like, she lost some speed but holy **** the combos are real. D-Tilt and D-Smash are the future. Things don't combo the same way as before due to U-Air not being as good (imo) but you can improvise a lot more and it's actually very easy to bait airdodges among tons of other stuff cause of the change in the game's mechanics.

She's a serious threat in the air at any percentage but ESPECIALLY high. She kills at 90%+ easy w/ the proper read and spacing. This may sound weird but I feel like she's the happy medium between Brawl Peach and Melee. Does anyone else agree so far?

I can agree with this. I wouldn't mind if she was a tad faster but, I'll gladly take not having to struggle to get a KO like in brawl lol.
Can't get enough of the buffed racket and frying pan.

 

[deepseadiva]

She may feel nerfed in the beginning since people will try to play her the way they have played her in previous game, which is obviously not very effective, but the more you play with her, the more you discover how ridiculous she is. I'd say she's buffed for now.

FOR REAL HOLY HELL SHE IS SO WEIRD NOW

But this obviously a much stronger character! ...in comparison to her Brawl version. I want to make that a very specific point, because as buffed as she may have been, I want to compare her to the Smash 4 roster... which we have yet to see even lightly realized.

But in so far she seems SOLID. The single fact that her fsmash is controllable now is almost unbelievable.

 

[Carrill]

Yeah... it really doesn't feel like a struggle to kill anymore. Up-Smash is so much easier to land...

 

[Dark.Pch]

I think it'll still be useful but it won't be used as much since u are open to hits for 3seconds, it will be used for approuchs but imo it won't be used as much

You have yet to explain to me how turnips are not useful. You can not be punished for a turnip toss unless you are dead in their face. Which is not the smart thing to do. Turnips have low recovery time. Toss at the right distance and you are safe. Which I believe you are NOT doing for you to be saying this. And this was the same in melee/brawl. You toss it to close and you are free for a hit.

Omg her dair breaks shields after 2 times like that's crazy and then their options are limited after a dair because they can't shield again

That's not true. Her dair can not crack a FULL shield after 2 hits. If you cracked a shield, then the shield must have been small. Also after blocking the he first dair, people can roll out the way before you can do another one on them.

 

[Razmakazi]

Ok, so been playing all day and I notice a couple things I've having trouble with.

Peach being slower is a true pain. Can't even fastfall to the ground like you can with other characters. Floatier/slower peach, with that slow ass turnip pull makes it kind of hard to get in on DDD and Duckhunt. Also, gordos via wifi sooo cheesy. We're def gonna need to learn the spacing/timings to knock the gordos back.

The other thing is that most hitboxes in this game are smaller/more precise with anyone. It's kind of tricky to punish. I'm missing a lot of free punishes because I don't have the spacing on her moves down yet. It's gonna take a while to learn how to actually space with her lol.

So yeah those are my brief concerns. Otherwise, this character is really buff, I like her haha.

 

[Dark.Pch]

- For your turnip pull problem, just turnip cancel.

- Her fast fall is slow

- Use TLC (Turnip lag Cancel) with your air move or airdodge to get in on characters

I advise you to look at this if you have not

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyuBVimjsng

 

[Razmakazi]

OH riiight, turnip ledge cancel, DUH lol.
And yeah, I been using the TLC, it's pretty amazing. I'll check out the vid late coz I know I've only been using TLC for fair and that you're prob displaying more varied ways to use this.
Thanks, DP

 

[Alacion]

Silly question but what is the basic "game plan" for Peach so far?

I know in Brawl it was glide toss, or short hop dair. I find myself SH dair-ing and approaching with fair like in Brawl... not sure what the best thing to do now. I feel really limited compared to in Brawl... as strange as that sounds.

Rolls are so good x_x

 

[Genome Squirrel]

I've found myself using nonfloating empty jumps to approach, with a turnip when it's safe to pull them
I haven't found dair approaches reliable against anyone who doesn't have a huge hurtbox like bowser or ddd

 

[Razmakazi]

btw, watching the vid DP and I totally pulled Mr. Saturn first and it didn't work. I guess it works with ONLY turnips. Which is kind of funny but whatever lol.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Speaking of the ledge, has there been any guaranteed followups for Peach when someone is trumped off the ledge? (I'd test myself, but I'm not getting the game until 10:00a est)

Try downsmash, It's not gauranteed, but it will often him them as they try to jump back up.

By the way, Toad kills now.. and it's so easy to land.

I approach with full hop fairs, floated dairs, or short hop back airs, or I throw a turnip then dash in for a grab.

If opponents are too aggresive I approah with Peach bomber.

Yaaay: I can't connect with Fsmash even when I should be. it's definteily becomes it comes out real late due to lack of C stick.

Raz: Try usig toad on duck hunt's projectiles when you are close enough that the spores would hit him.

Peach is buffed for sure .So far I havne't faced any matchups as tough as MK was in Brawl, and not even close to it. All these moves that are supposed nerfs aren't really necessary. There are a million other ways to rack up damage with her. but she can kill easily now. Up smashing things out of shield is so amazing, comes out so fast...

 

[CandyCakes]

You have yet to explain to me how turnips are not useful. You can not be punished for a turnip toss unless you are dead in their face. Which is not the smart thing to do. Turnips have low recovery time. Toss at the right distance and you are safe. Which I believe you are NOT doing for you to be saying this. And this was the same in melee/brawl. You toss it to close and you are free for a hit.



That's not true. Her dair can not crack a FULL shield after 2 hits. If you cracked a shield, then the shield must have been small. Also after blocking the he first dair, people can roll out the way before you can do another one on them.

I never said that they're not useful I pretty much saying it's hard to pluck one out because it takes so long but the dair was my mistake, they still work as a projectile but I'm just saying the slow speed of plucking them is making it hard to find a good time to pluck one out and they could easily punish u IK i could ledge cancel but I'm not always near a ledge, I never said the turnips were useless, I just said that its just slow

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I've noticed that Down throwing a Turnip on someone causes them them to get knocked behind you. They always get knocked in the opposite direction that Peach is facing.

As far as I can tell, if you Down Throw a Turnip on a grounded opponent, you can get a guaranteed footstool if you move backwards and input jump. You can also Float immediately to stop yourself from actually jumping anywhere. Even better, you can get a guaranteed Fair, Nair out of the footstool AND you recatch the Turnip!
I very much believe that these Down throw Turnip Combos are worth checking out aruond this time what with more histun and less shield stun.

Oh another thing - because they

Those who played Brawl will remember how difficult it was to Down Throw a Turnip to Footstool but this is really really easy if the Turnip connects

Speaking of the ledge, has there been any guaranteed followups for Peach when someone is trumped off the ledge? (I'd test myself, but I'm not getting the game until 10:00a est)

I managed to trump a CPU Mario off the ledge and drop down -> 2nd Jump Bair to KO him and it looked pretty guaranteed...not 100% certain but it may work!



Sooooooo Peach's Uair spikes similarly to other multi hit moves (see this video for an example of what I'm talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrdyW9YdQ_U). I accidentally pulled it off whilst fighting a CPU Bowser as we were both landing back on the stage but I am having an impossibly hard time trying replicate it.

It's a shame because it would have been neat to be able to make Uair spike but ironically, the hits connect too reliably to actually get this to work. Can't seem to get it to work with Dair either



WOW this character is different. Like, REALLY different to her Brawl counterpart. She's going to take a lot getting used to.

- Down Tilt and F Smash are super good this time around. D Tilt to Parasol looks like it might be an actual combo!
- Bone Walking is NOT in. Neither is sliding Turnip Pull
- Gonna have to be much more careful with Fair spamming this time around
- I miss Glide Toss

I have a feeling I'm not going to get much work done today...

 

[Razmakazi]

Try downsmash, It's not gauranteed, but it will often him them as they try to jump back up.

By the way, Toad kills now.. and it's so easy to land.

I approach with full hop fairs, floated dairs, or short hop back airs, or I throw a turnip then dash in for a grab.

If opponents are too aggresive I approah with Peach bomber.

Yaaay: I can't connect with Fsmash even when I should be. it's definteily becomes it comes out real late due to lack of C stick.

Raz: Try usig toad on duck hunt's projectiles when you are close enough that the spores would hit him.

Peach is buffed for sure .So far I havne't faced any matchups as tough as MK was in Brawl, and not even close to it. All these moves that are supposed nerfs aren't really necessary. There are a million other ways to rack up damage with her. but she can kill easily now. Up smashing things out of shield is so amazing, comes out so fast...

Couple things: Figured out the Duck Hunt thing for now; I just bomber or dash attack the bomb can. I just make it everything stays close to the dog so I can read him.

Also, MK is still hard it seems. He's small and fast! Not sure how to utilize aerial game against him (at least our ground stuff is super solid, though). This is more of a riddle than a bad match-up I feel.

 

[Airgemini]

Still running on just a few hours of gameplay but I will say that I'm in agreement that she definitely feels more stronger. Usmash and Racket/Pan are ridiculous haha.

I do feel like she's slower, but it's not anything too terrible imo. It's for sure an adjustment not being able to glide toss/Fair for approach but the TLC is amazing. It's not as hard to input as I thought it would be but so far I think it's a pretty good option to have. Loving the Uair and Peach Bomber is great, but I have to train myself to actually use it now lolol. Also, <3 Dsmash.

She's just so different it's impossible trying to play her like Brawl/Melee. But I like it.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I never said that they're not useful I pretty much saying it's hard to pluck one out because it takes so long but the dair was my mistake, they still work as a projectile but I'm just saying the slow speed of plucking them is making it hard to find a good time to pluck one out and they could easily punish u IK i could ledge cancel but I'm not always near a ledge, I never said the turnips were useless, I just said that its just slow

Then you turnip cancel. If one chases you for doing so you can just toss the turnip behind you which would hit the opponent. or make them block, making you get a free nair on shield and start a mix up. Its not hard to get to the ledge at a netrual position. I have never had a problem with going for turnip cancels unless I am being cornered pressure. I don't see how you are having a problem with running BACK and turnip canceling off the ledge.

Silly question but what is the basic "game plan" for Peach so far?

I know in Brawl it was glide toss, or short hop dair. I find myself SH dair-ing and approaching with fair like in Brawl... not sure what the best thing to do now. I feel really limited compared to in Brawl... as strange as that sounds.

Rolls are so good x_x

Used spaced grounded nairs and fairs while having a turnip in hand. When you land you can TLC and get close to someone. If the turnip bounces off their shield, you can regrab it with a nair or short hop fair. And go for more TLC mix ups. Don't TLC all the time. You can space an attack and run back to a jump cancel throw behind you to halt approaches. Each time the turnip hits the enemy or shield, you can regrab it again.

For shield pressure you can space a grounded nair to a TLC and then Dtilt. People can't push buttons on this. You can do this with fair if you space it well. Quick sessions of nairs with turnip in hand really make it hard for one to come in at you. And if they choose to always wanna roll just pin them near the ledge. And bait them to roll towards you and punish. That's pretty much her game that I came up with and been doing. And it's been working just fine when I can actually control her well.

btw, watching the vid DP and I totally pulled Mr. Saturn first and it didn't work. I guess it works with ONLY turnips. Which is kind of funny but whatever lol.

Yea, only D-B works for this via turnp that's the rule. Which is why only Peach and the Triforce kids can do it.

 

[CandyCakes]

Then you turnip cancel. If one chases you for doing so you can just toss the turnip behind you which would hit the opponent. or make them block, making you get a free nair on shield and start a mix up. Its not hard to get to the ledge at a netrual position. I have never had a problem with going for turnip cancels unless I am being cornered pressure. I don't see how you are having a problem with running BACK and turnip canceling off the ledge.

Against some really fast characters like little Mac can easily rush U down and this is just to a few characters, like the problem is when I pluck a turnip some characters like rosalina can use the Luma shot and easily punish, i do tlc I'm just saying that the nerf does make it harder, I usually find ways to pull one out usually by attacking someone away and then plucking or tlc but I'm just saying that sometimes I just can't pluck it cuz it's not safe

 

[Dark.Pch]

I never had problems with that. Even with the speed. I do it at ranges where I am safe. You need to learn how to pick your spots

 

[CandyCakes]

Well the turnips leave u open for like 2 seconds and those r for the occasional times I'm not near the ledge, I do it at a range but they always punish with a projectile I never do it close or right in front of them

 

[Alacion]

Is there even a safe range for Peach on For Glory?

 

[Genome Squirrel]

you can take the projectile if you need the turnip, it's just chip damage

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Been playing For Glory at a lot this past weekend - the online is very good for this game! Peach is really, really good imo. Characters like Sheik, Rosalina + Luma and ZSS are definitely top but Peach is easily high tier in this game. I love the new Uair - it's so good for juggling people and the new landing mechanics when you airdodge means that people are put in a horrible position when they're trying to land vs Peach. Peach Bomber is also amazing.

I can see what people mean that she feels slower - landing her aerials definitely feels more sluggish this time around. However, Peach's new KO power and run speed definitely more than make up for that

Speaking of amazing...Peach's offstage game is so so so so so good. My advice to anyone who plays Peach is be aggressive with your edgeguarding. Fair kills reliably at around 80-100% at the ledge and F Smash/her other aerials aren't too shabby either. Turnips are good too - even if the Turnip misses you can still force your opponent to be in a really bad position. Really keep the pressure up when your opponent is offstage.


Edge Trumping is...not what I expected it to be. It's very difficult to punish people via this method. I've got the odd drop down and Bair on people but I'm having trouble consistently doing this and also grabbing the ledge correctly for it to work...

...which brings me onto my next point - the 3DS controls are not kind to you when playing Peach...retreating Fairs is hard enough and I now see what @ M Meru. means about F Smashing - in the heat of the moment it can be a bit hit and miss actually performing this move and not F Tilt. OoS Ground Floating Bairs are very very difficult as well :/


Some other stuff
- I have got to stop spamming Fair and Peach Bomber so much...but I can't because the move is AMAZING
- I wish she still had Glide Tossing
- Has the chance to pull Stitchface/Items increased or something? I seem to have got more Stitchfaces/Mr. Saturns/Bob-ombs in the past two days than I have in the past decade or so that I've been playing Peach
- I initially really liked D Tilt but landing it is very difficult
- Poor poor F Tilt this move really sucks now in comparison to it's beastly prowess in Brawl

- Got to be very careful and patient vs Rosalina + Luma. Same for Duck Hunt Duo
- Pacman is super strange to fight against
- Little Mac...maybe it's just because there's a lot of bad ones on For Glory but this guy does not impress. He hits hard but it's so easy to string a Floating Dair to Fair or something and get him offstage...and then he dies
- Ness's Fair is REALLY good this time around...I had to resort to camping with Turnips (I know right?)
- Don't let DeDeDe grab you! His D Throw chaingrab is gone but he can follow up with aerials
- Yoshi is a lot better


More to come when I'm not so busy...

 

[Airgemini]

I agree, I am absolutely in love with her new Uair. It's so great at juggling and lasts forever. I am curious if it's able to out prioritize any Dair though.

I definitely feel like Wii U Peach will be amazing. So far from my impressions on playing her I think she has the tools to be a really good character in this game. The only thing that's really troubling me is adjusting to the Fair lag and trying to break this habit of pulling a lot of Turnips. The lag isn't terrible but I've been punished because I keep thinking in this Brawl Peach mindset. It's not hard to approach now but I feel limited with options.

 

[IIMintygreenII]

F-tilt isn't that bad at low percents. Yes, it can't really stand on it's own, but I've noticed that you can d-throw to f-tilt at low percents for decent damage.

I haven't touched Peach in ANY of the games she has been in until Smash 4, and I immediately fell in love with her. Can't wait to learn and find out more about her. She seems mid-high, at least.