Meta Peach Tactical Discussion: Frame data in first post!

[Shirma Akayaku]

Okay, I just wanna say something about Peach real quick.

Although custom equipment won't really be a thing in the competitive scene, Peach is SOOO good with speed equipment. Her floating and zoning capabilities are amazing as you can F-air (while floating) without worrying too much about getting punished (getting punished is rarely gonna happen). Her jumping is phenomenal with equips, and she can go very far under the stage to punish, attack, etc. She can also float under the stage from one side, and reach the other without having to grab the ledge, so that's something. Whenever I have a COM Peach on my team with the speed equips, she'll always float out very far (even off-screen) and F-air the opponent (she always steals my KO's too).

Man, if custom equipment were legal, Peach mains would definitely go for the speed equipment.

 

[RayaGRH]

Well, this is certainly interesting...

http://www.eventhubs.com/tiers/ssb4/

Obviously it's only early days, but promising that Peach resides at the very top!

 

[Etherlight]

I wouldn't take the tiers from that website too seriously. AFAIK anyone with an account can just vote, so the lists can be incredibly misleading.

Edit: As for Peach, I think she's quite strong. The only thing that's holding her back from being amazing is her sluggish movement but the buffs to Peach Bomber really helps her punish game and she has a lot of effective space control.

 

[Nicole]

it's crazy how all of you say she's so different from brawl.

i really think she's very similar, but the mechanics of this game are just so much kinder to her. her aerial superiority to like 90% of the cast is like AMAZIN - all her quick aerials autocancel and you don't need to autocancel fair anyway because it zones soooo much better this time. plus i think the whack controls on the 3ds give her an advantage over other characters who need short hop aerials to space (or like need to recover with up b LOL).

her fair has crazy good range. i was scared of all the sword characters, but gf retreating fair can outspace most everything it seems. i'd really like to see if this fair outranged snake's utilt from brawl lol. seriously. fair. the best. plus floating negates aerial move staling omg. THE. BEST.

i've been playing her mostly like i played her in brawl, except that i gf nair alot more, because her air speed in this game to me anyway seems faster. she can hang out around people's shields with less worry. plus we don't have any fkn mk's there to loop OOS every single time we try to pressure.

i honestly think her pressure game is improved, not because anything about her changed, but because there seems to be so few disjointed moves in this game. the hitboxes are much smaller, allowing her to space away from punishment quite easily while still remaining close enough to the opponent to punish or to continue applying pressure.

peach bomber bouncing off shields 100% of the time is pretty cool too, and the fact that you can direct the bounce away, or remain directly on top of them and do a falling nair/dair/fall to grab/whatever you want really, is a pretty good mixup (bouncing away is obvs safer, but it's just one more tool to approach that we have). this in some small way kind of makes up for glide tossing being absent....i mean not really. it sucks. but bomber off the shield to turnip to repeat apply pressure...idk, it could be alright.

one thing i noticed is that all y'all are talkin about dtilt as a good combo-ing move. i'm not sure i agree. now i know i'm gonna sound like a scrub but lv 9's tech/crouch cancel my dtilts like all the time. they might tech roll away from me or just tech it/cancel it and do whatever they want after. i know humans aren't computers, but i'm sure it isn't that hard to pull off, even for people. so that's just something to keep in mind. dtilt does have good range and low lag, but to me it seems like it should be used how i mostly used to use it in brawl...situationally. i don't see it as some kind of awesome staple move. but that's just my opinion, and i certainly haven't played enough to know too much just yet.

i can't fkn wait to get my hands on a gc controller though. there's so much stuff i'd like to do with peach that i simply can't do consistently at all on a 3ds pad. hell i can barely up b with confidence.

and finally, stitches don't kill. that's lame.

i'm gonna read this in a year and be like wow i thought all that? LOOOOOLLL.

oh and that down b turnip throw thing to cancel lag is awesome, i'm def gonna test that asap :3

 

[Meru.]

Some Japanese player has released frame data of every character's aerial landing lag, which has been translated to English.

Peach's landing lag is as follows:

Nair: 11 frames (Brawl: 11)
Bair: 18 frames ;_; (Brawl: 9)
Fair: 22 frames ;_; (Brawl: lol 0, 22 when autocanceled too early)
Dair: 13 frames (Brawl: 9)
Uair: 12 frames (Brawl: 9)
Air Dodge: 22 frames

Nair, Dair and Uair have little ending lag compared to the rest of the cast. Fair and Bair are somewhat unsafe. Then again, those moves will just have to be used in different ways now.

i honestly think her pressure game is improved, not because anything about her changed, but because there seems to be so few disjointed moves in this game. the hitboxes are much smaller, allowing her to space away from punishment quite easily while still remaining close enough to the opponent to punish or to continue applying pressure.

I agree with this. Universally range seems to have been nerfed remarkably. This is probably also what makes Fair so good this good. It's not that its range has been buffed, but all other character's spacing options seem to have been nerfed. This is great news, since it especially helps a lot with ground floated Fair, which is what she seems to rely on mostly in this game.

one thing i noticed is that all y'all are talkin about dtilt as a good combo-ing move. i'm not sure i agree. now i know i'm gonna sound like a scrub but lv 9's tech/crouch cancel my dtilts like all the time. they might tech roll away from me or just tech it/cancel it and do whatever they want after. i know humans aren't computers, but i'm sure it isn't that hard to pull off, even for people. so that's just something to keep in mind. dtilt does have good range and low lag, but to me it seems like it should be used how i mostly used to use it in brawl...situationally. i don't see it as some kind of awesome staple move. but that's just my opinion, and i certainly haven't played enough to know too much just yet.

I doubt it. You will have to react Dtilt before you get hit, which is something probably only the CPU can do. Dtilt's start-up is not super fast, but it is rarely telegraphed.

Also the crappy 3ds controls seems to **** over my Peach more than any other characters. I mess up floating and short-hops (especially out of shield or in combos where stuff has to be done fast) and the lack of C-stick hampers well-spaced aerials. ;_;

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Landing lag only seems like a huge issue with Bair since you cancel landing lag with Turnip Toss... Of course, that's IF you already have a turnip which isn't always guaranteed, haha. It's interesting you can Turnip Toss as soon as you're in hitstun, too.

 

[PKIvysaur]

Wait are custom moves illegal or just the stats

 

[Alacion]

Shulk has some pretty unfair range... can't punish at all

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Shulk has some pretty unfair range... can't punish at all

was it online? shulks reach is annoying, but i found the match not too bad :o

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Just gonna leave this here

 

[Alacion]

was it online? shulks reach is annoying, but i found the match not too bad :o

Matches aren't too hard until you find somebody who really knows what they're doing. Guy pretty much caught all my turnips and recovering from offstage is ridiculous with Shulk's attack range... His attacks are deceptively far reaching.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Matches aren't too hard until you find somebody who really knows what they're doing. Guy pretty much caught all my turnips and recovering from offstage is ridiculous with Shulk's attack range... His attacks are deceptively far reaching.

They are, thank goodness the Monado isn't invisible, but if you block within his range i think you can grab him if you aren't caught too far at the edge of most of his attacks.

When i fought a Shulk player i only recovered low towards the edge, because i can't bully my way back down with Dairs lol. I generally just tried to stay near him so i wasn't caught at the edge of his range.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

So, after initially being very excited about it, I am starting to utterly detest the new ledge mechanics in this game. I wish they'd kept it the same :/

one thing i noticed is that all y'all are talkin about dtilt as a good combo-ing move. i'm not sure i agree. now i know i'm gonna sound like a scrub but lv 9's tech/crouch cancel my dtilts like all the time. they might tech roll away from me or just tech it/cancel it and do whatever they want after. i know humans aren't computers, but i'm sure it isn't that hard to pull off, even for people. so that's just something to keep in mind. dtilt does have good range and low lag, but to me it seems like it should be used how i mostly used to use it in brawl...situationally. i don't see it as some kind of awesome staple move. but that's just my opinion, and i certainly haven't played enough to know too much just yet.

Yea I really liked D Tilt when I first started using it but as I've played more games I've been finding it very tricky to actually land it. It can sometimes work vs very air heavy opponents.

When it does hit though you can nearly always follow up with a Dair and then take it from there with Uair/Up Tilt and F Tilt to juggle your opponents. This is especially good if someone lands with an airdodge near you whilst trying to avoid getting juggled.


There's definitely very Brawl-esque gameplay with her but imo she's super different due to her ability to juggle in this game and her new offstage game in comparison to her very-much-orientated-around-Turnips gameplay in Brawl.

Bair: 18 frames ;_; (Brawl: 9)

*weeps*




Soooo does anyone have any advice on Nairing/throwing Turnips OoS? I'm missing very frequently when trying to punish people hitting my shield. I never had this problem in Brawl but I can't get Nair or Turnip throw to connect consistently OoS. Should I just use Jab instead?

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Just gonna leave this here

Okay, so I had to download the video to see what happened, and wow... I've never seen that happen before...
How the heck did that happen?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Mr. Saturns have always done a lot of shield damage, it was sort of its weird ability as a gag item, absurd shield damage.

In this game it seems to break shields even if they're close to full/full.

Here it is again against someone who JUST brought up their shield.

 

[ffdgh]

This is probably old news but Peach's parasol will automatically go into helpless if it's out too long. Just had it happen online.

 

[Airgemini]

Soooo does anyone have any advice on Nairing/throwing Turnips OoS? I'm missing very frequently when trying to punish people hitting my shield. I never had this problem in Brawl but I can't get Nair or Turnip throw to connect consistently OoS. Should I just use Jab instead?

Personally, I like Dsmashing OoS. I've found Turnips OoS are kind of hit or miss because I've had it where the opponent was really close to me and the Turnip just fly straight through them. Nair OoS is great but I can't do it consistently on the 3DS controls. On the WiiU version it'll probably be a staple for me. I love Dsmash though because it covers rolls, spot dodges, and gives you room to breathe.

Here it is again against someone who JUST brought up their shield.

I've yet to actually hit someone's shield with Mr. Saturn, but that's pretty amazing. Especially since we can kill easier with Pan/Racket.

This is probably old news but Peach's parasol will automatically go into helpless if it's out too long. Just had it happen online.

Are you sure you weren't using her second custom Parasol move? It forces you into a helpless state after gliding for a while. I don't recall that ever happening to me with her normal Parasol.

 

[ffdgh]

Oops should have said it was in For Glory. Try it in training mode with a bunnyhood. She'll go into helpless after a long while.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I've yet to actually hit someone's shield with Mr. Saturn, but that's pretty amazing. Especially since we can kill easier with Pan/Racket

Saturn and Stitchface pullrates seem waaaaaaaay higher in this game, they're so much fun to play with and use.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

There must be something I'm not doing right... I've seen Peach being able to throw immediately after an aerial (after touching the ground), but I haven't been able to do that... Is it only in special instances where you hit the opponent (or their shield), or is there a certain input method that I just don't know?

I'm gonna go try again and see if I can do it... I wonder if Nintendo patched this, because I heard any character can do this...

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

There must be something I'm not doing right... I've seen Peach being able to throw immediately after an aerial (after touching the ground), but I haven't been able to do that... Is it only in special instances where you hit the opponent (or their shield), or is there a certain input method that I just don't know?

I'm gonna go try again and see if I can do it... I wonder if Nintendo patched this, because I heard any character can do this...

Only characters with item toss specials can. With a turnip in hand you simply input Down+B and you'll throw it forward

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Oops should have said it was in For Glory. Try it in training mode with a bunnyhood. She'll go into helpless after a long while.

Oh you're right! I just tested this myself and she does go into a helpless state. I tried it with custom equipment plus the bunny hood and it worked (it was a tad difficult without the custom equipment).

Only characters with item toss specials can. With a turnip in hand you simply input Down+B and you'll throw it forward

Oh I see, thank you. I've been wondering how to do this for a while...

Now I'm off to the Wario Thread to figure out how Wario does that weird thing where he's flung and he can reverse his trajectory..

 

[#HBC | J]

So I was super excited to play Peach in this game and I have to say I like her playstyle in this game infinitely more than that of the other games. I am probably going to main her because she feels strong as hell in this game and has a really reliable moveset.

I have the feeling Peach is going to be pretty high on the tier list.

God bless the Usmash being a more reliable kill move now. FSmash for days too.

 

[WhiskeyPeach]

Fair against yoshi is way too good! On shield he cant punish it at all

 

[Dark.Pch]

Something I wanna point out. Her toad auto corrects not. if someone hits your back as you counter, Peach will turn around and the spores will hit them.

 

[Shirma Akayaku]

Something I wanna point out. Her toad auto corrects now. if someone hits your back as you counter, Peach will turn around and the spores will hit them.

Yeah, I think most Peach mains know this by now, but many other players don't. Since the game is relatively early, people against Peach might not know this, and this is great for baiting. I've been able to bait multiple people in For Glory mode very easily by using Toad while having my back against them.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Soooo does anyone have any advice on Nairing/throwing Turnips OoS? I'm missing very frequently when trying to punish people hitting my shield. I never had this problem in Brawl but I can't get Nair or Turnip throw to connect consistently OoS. Should I just use Jab instead?

Jump towards the opponent and Z drop to a foot stool. Best way to get a punish if they are too close,

Jab works as works good as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I been very busy and tired, so I am a lil lazy on responses, but there is a lot I wanna covered based on what people have said here. Maybe over the weekend when I have some time to relax.

 

[Sleepy]

Okay, so 2 cents on this, even if it doesn't mean much.

With peach's ability to turnip cancel, it makes for a lot of development of new technology.
I'll put this in perspective. Peach's fair float cancelled leaves a lot of lag upon landing.

IF you were to have a turnip out, float, then fair your opponent, press down b > then go for another fair, it becomes possible to implement more attacks much quicker.

The issue I would personally have with this is that, you're obviously going to keep the turnip in your hands rather than throw it most of the time. Which means application of pressure is going to be more spacing oriented and less trapping your opponent in a situation.

The potential for this technique is limitless, but coming from a melee background it seems this tactical is good. Here's why:
1) peach's turnips are easily caught by the opponent during their a moves.
2) turnips don't have the effect they did in previous games where they bounce off shields (allowing it to be recaught for constant pressure)
3) pressure can be mixed up with the throw approaches and non-throw, but generally it will probably be better to hold onto the turnip'

Now as for how peach feels as a character, she feels consistent across the board. Dsmash seems to be very key in catching shield rolls. Her Fair feels solid, it has a decent hitbox still and can be spaced to hit shields even if properly spaced. I think basing your game around floats and fairs at this point is perfectly viable, combining that with turnip cancelling

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Posting this in case anyone is not aware.

Peach can no longer pick up Banana's/ROB's Gyro using Ground Floating Nairs and dropping the Float over the item

So don't bother trying because it won't work!

Edit: Ignore this! See below...

 

[Alacion]

Yeah that's unfortunate! What Peach can do at least is ground float, release the float and nair to pick up the item. You can do this from a run... just takes practise. It's just as fast as Brawl but harder to do?

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Yeah that's unfortunate! What Peach can do at least is ground float, release the float and nair to pick up the item. You can do this from a run... just takes practise. It's just as fast as Brawl but harder to do?

Oooh I've just tried this out and you're right! It's not as easy as in Brawl but it's definitely doable :D

That's really good to know - I've been Floating over the Banana and then releasing Float of Ground Float Nair over the Banana as opposed to running up and Ground Floating Nairing as I reach the Banana. Thanks for the tip!

 

[deepseadiva]

plus we don't have any fkn mk's there to loop OOS every single time we try to pressure.

For real I am so happy that abomination is gone ommmffffggggggg

 

[CandyCakes]

-U-air is close to lagless and it's just so good for approuch juggles and combo follow ups

-Peach Bomber is just amazing for tech chases and punishes or just for a suprise, in brawl I used it as a edgeguard so u could use that

-Fair is amazing with the lag cancel, it can kill at her mid 80s and its a great zoning tool

-Her smashes lol EARLY LIKE REALLY EARLY sometines I'll kill at 70 and I'm mainly talking about the frying pan, tennis racket, and her U-smash but I think Its funny how her best side smash in melee and brawl is now her worst, down smash is okay, it's range is increased but damage is about brawl damage and has more knockback

 

[Razmakazi]

one thing about dtilt: way faster, and stuffs the **** out of ground approaches. And it's a great move to box people with. It's pretty obnoxious and it doesn't seem like you can really punish it, even if you're like within jab range.

 

[Mikey Lenetia]

I did have a question involving dtilt, since we're talking about changes to moves. I know there is a 'spike' ala Samus's utilt on it when the opponent is grounded, but even with experimenting on it with Peachkid on both a floating Peach and Bowser, I'm struggling to see if the move can actually still meteor smash people in the air. Has anyone gotten it to do so, and if so, where about would you say that hitbox is?

 

[CandyCakes]

I did have a question involving dtilt, since we're talking about changes to moves. I know there is a 'spike' ala Samus's utilt on it when the opponent is grounded, but even with experimenting on it with Peachkid on both a floating Peach and Bowser, I'm struggling to see if the move can actually still meteor smash people in the air. Has anyone gotten it to do so, and if so, where about would you say that hitbox is?

I did it once and I think the hitbox is pretty small

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

After a shield break, it seems the most damaging option is Dair>Fair, which of course only works at certain percents. After that, a fully charged Frying Pan/Tennis Racket does 25. I love being able to cycle through Fsmash now. Is the Fsmash you start on always the same?

 

[deepseadiva]

I've really been warming up to her. The Little Mac matchup is naturally advantageous to her. Otherwise, she's BUFF. Definitely holds her own especially since there doesn't seem to be a Snake or MK in this game.

After a shield break, it seems the most damaging option is Dair>Fair, which of course only works at certain percents. After that, a fully charged Frying Pan/Tennis Racket does 25. I love being able to cycle through Fsmash now. Is the Fsmash you start on always the same?

I would imagine. Time to ingrain that order.

I believe its club, racket, pan.

 

[Nose]

anyway

I find with the 3ds controls
it's tough to stay in line with punishing

however
turnip canceled fair with a stitch is a guaranteed shield break
tried it out today, works like a charm
you pull a stitch at high percent and you basically have an ensured kill if you pull off the tc fair


faster characters are a much bigger problem
ZSS seems to be the worst matchup for me so far
peach has very little room to respond and zss can act with a flurry of attacks

defensive play is a must for her
it'd be a good match up for peach if zss were like lil mac,
in which lil mac has so few recovery options
but zss flip jump or whatever it's called is more unpredictable and more useful
so she's a mixed bag right now

I'm not entirely sure how to deal with her.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I've really been warming up to her. The Little Mac matchup is naturally advantageous to her. Otherwise, she's BUFF. Definitely holds her own especially since there doesn't seem to be a Snake or MK in this game.



I would imagine. Time to ingrain that order.

I believe its club, racket, pan.

Racquet, Club, Pan. The Club always comes after the Racquet, not the other way around.

Which reminds me - cycle your F Smashes people! So that you have the most appropriate one to hand!