Official Patch 3.0.0 - Persona Edition: Discussion Thread

[zzmorg82]

I wonder how much damage his gun can do normally and with limit; the bullets do hitstun so of the damage is warranted it’ll be a good tool to camp with in combination with side B to rack up damage.

 

[Sean²]

A lot of people thinking Mementos is gonna be tourney legal.

Predicting now that the various walls, ceilings, and train will be gone with Hazards Off, but I guarantee that rightmost solid platform will remain static. It's a total Nintendo move.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Joker is also supposed to be pretty light to according to the datamined files. So that combined with a possibly suspect recovery without Arsene may make him a glass cannon.
He seems to be a high-risk high-reward comeback style character. Wanting to fill his meter to get Arsene ASAP, encouraged with a risk factor for filling meter with down-b counter. He seems meantcto play the comeback game since his Persona meter specifically fills quicker if he is behind in stocks

 

[Sean²]

Only thing I don't like about Joker so far: another character with a super low profile dash animation. His guns give me Bayo vibes though.

 

[Scarlet Spyder]

Here praying that Ivysaur bull**** Hitboxes and Electric Rats Jank / Wolf Jank get nerfed to hell.
Buff some characters, Robin and Little mac desperately need that

Ivysaur may deserve a nerf but please BUFF CHARIZARD if they do. Honestly, Pikachu, Pichu, and Wolf each have their weaknesses although I do agree that they are very good characters compared to the rest of the cast.

I for one hope Nintendo continues with more buffs to low characters rather than nerfs to top characters. The game is actually really balanced right now, for a game with 75 characters. It would be nice to buff some characters to give them a fighting chance in competitive play. We'll find out soon enough!

Also, early impressions of Joker give me Cloud + Bayonetta... not good. But I have faith in this balancing team!

 

[FruitLoop]

I know it probably isn't, won't be, and shouldn't be possible for the good of the smash community. But it'd be hillarious if Joker and his Persona had the ability to desync and you could do desync combos like the icies or have the Persona buffer a hitbox whilst joker is being grabbed or so. I'd laugh so hard if that becomes a thing.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

Crossing my fingers for Bayonetta and Sheik buffs.

Does this come out in 3 1/2 hours?

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Hoping for very few nerfs and mostly buffs. I think that at this point it's just better we get only buffs rather than nerfs.

 

[uhmuzing]

I selfishly want v slight buffs to G&W, perhaps give his fair the ability to explode more immediately w an additional quick c-stick input. lol
Otherwise mayyybe Olimar and Wolf could use the smallest of tweaks but I'd be way more thrilled to see subtle buffs to Zard, Jiggs, Sheik, Bayo, Luigi, Kirby, Mac obv, and D./Samus.

One of the hardest things to watch is Elegant held back by Luigi's garbage recovery. We won't see the old nado return, for sure, but I miss it's hilarity.

 

[Delzethin]

I wouldn't mind a few buffs to Robin, though I don't think he needs any crucially at the moment. Robin's biggest obstacle right now is his few nerfs getting overblown and many buffs overlooked by people who don't already play him or don't know a good one.

That said, can we please regain the ability to do Levin aerials with tilt stick? I don't know why that's not a thing in Ultimate, I've a sneaking suspicion it's a bug, and having to choose between access to attack cancels and easy Levin aerials on command is annoying. Other than that, I wouldn't mind Arcthunder getting a few more frames of stun to make followups a bit more practical without making them outright easy (it'd be broken if they were; Arcthunder alone does over twice the damage it did in Smash 4 on its own), or uthrow getting its knockback growth cranked up to be an alternate kill throw. Hey, Zelda and DK have multiple kill throws, and Robin's uthrow is his only truly useless move as-is since it has no niche.

 

[KirbySquad101]

I don't think he reeaaaaalllyyyy needs it, but for G&W, my dream buffs are:
- Have both of FAir's hits connect in mid-air; I don't think the move is nearly as bad as people make it out to be, but this is the one gripe I have with the move at the moment.
- Give DTilt a little more vertical range to make NAir into DTilt more feasible.
- This one's optional, but if they can, do SOMETHING about UTilt, that move is easily the worst move in his arsenal currently.


But outside of that, I would definitely say to fix moves that are wonky via Z-Axis, and also make multi-hitting moves consistent across the case. There should be no reason why multi-hitting moves like 's function properly while can't even get both hits of his UAir to connect properly.


The ability to add-in short-hopping as a button option should be added as well.

 

[Rizen]

I'll be happy as long as isn't nerfed (0.0)

 

[boysilver400]

I'm hoping my Kirby gets better frame data(especially on inhale). An airspeed buff would be nice but I want inhale fixed and some faster airials more.

 

[Shaya]

Server maintenance has started.

Please consider this the thread-line between speculation and actuality.

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[Game7a1]

Patch notes from Nintendo (of fighters).

 

[Untouch]

WFT changes in better detail:

• Deep Breathing now lasts 14 seconds, that's a HUGE buff. You thought this move was good before? It's way better now.
• Jab 3 bury is WAY more consistent now. This change might make her high tier, this gives her a consistent kill option when he was greatly lacking one.
• Ball passing has been fixed, that's the only thing that Header change did.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

They... They nerfed Bayonetta again.

**** this I quit.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Patch notes from Nintendo (of fighters).

From a quick glance. It look like most Top/High tiers were overall untouched and some low-mid tiers got buffs. The only notable things that look like nerfs are Wolf's D-Smash and Snakes Nikita. Maybe Pichu has his hurtbox size increased too

 

[Nidtendofreak]

They... They nerfed Bayonetta again.

**** this I quit.

They reduced the effectiveness of the majority of the projectiles in the game against shields in some way. It appears to be some sort of universal effort to make shields better for combating projectile spam, given the individual character changes and the universal shield changes. We'll need to wait and see what people find out through testing.

 

[War Anvil]

Oof, no significant Sonic changes except for Super Sonic. And a HUGE amount of moves have had their shield damage reduced, eh?

Good thing multi-dodging is getting nerfed though.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Olimar basically got buffed, shield damage decreases on side B and FSmash don't matter when his Smash attacks work properly now.. LOL.

Hell yeah boys.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

Rip Ridley, Mac, Bowser Jr, Doc...

Some characters need a lot more help then these guys are giving...

 

[SoccerStar9001]

The patch is mostly just projectile nerfs, similar to how 2.0.0 was a ledge grab patch.

Pretty disappointed with the balance patches for ultimate so far. Wish they did more, at least make Witch Time better.

 

[KirbySquad101]

Huh.... turns out 's and 's vegetable difference thing was unintentional, because they edited that bit out. I guess they are just supposed exact duplicates of each other lol

Nice to see getting some love again, that Inhale buff is a freaking godsend, and helps him out way more against characters with good projectiles. They still didn't fix forward throw jank, which is kind of annoying, but his other buffs, especially the Final Cutter one, are definitely appreciated.


It does look like they're being very conservative with their nerfs, only touching 's Nikita Missile and 's DSmash. I do like this style, since the game is still pretty fresh.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Rip Ridley, Mac, Bowser Jr, Doc...

Some characters need a lot more help then these guys are giving...

Doc is a decent character, he definitely doesn’t deserve to be lumped in with the likes of Mac and Bowser Jr.. A mobility buff would have benefited him greatly, though.

 

[Heracr055]

2 words.
Corrin.

 

[Lore]

I'm all for the projectile nerfs and easier dodge punishing. This is a great patch.

 

[AxelVDP]

They... They nerfed Bayonetta again.

**** this I quit.

Rip Ridley, Mac, Bowser Jr, Doc...

Some characters need a lot more help then these guys are giving...

no offense but jesus am I cringing right now, patch culture is seriously a bad thing
just because someone did not receive buffs does not mean that their meta can't be pushed forwards
also, they actually got BUFFED since all projectiles got nerfed lol. they now have an easier time getting in
and lol @ bayo getting "nerfed" when she was basically unchanged aside from a universal projectiles nerf

be calm and don't freak out for small changes

 

[MarioMeteor]

I don’t know if projectiles were enough of a problem to warrant their nerfing taking up a whole patch.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

no offense but jesus am I cringing right now, patch culture is seriously a bad thing
just because someone did not receive buffs does not mean that their meta can't be pushed forwards
also, they actually got BUFFED since all projectiles got nerfed lol. they now have an easier time getting in
and lol @ bayo getting "nerfed" when she was basically unchanged aside from a universal projectiles nerf

be calm and don't freak out for small changes

Bayonetta didn't get buffed is the problem here.

Her Meta is at it's peak, her competitive scene dropped her, her recovery frames are up to 50, her landing lag is too high, she cant kill, her startup is still below average, frame 9 jab, lowered smash multiplier, lowered smash multiplier in witch time, hitboxes are smaller than you think, kill throw is terrible, bullet arts useless, no approach, no throw pressure, no shield pressure, frame 8 counter-

Must I continue? Her own Up tilt doesn't even work at times because hitboxes won't connect! The Bayocord was kinda hyped for this and they fixed nothing and hit us with a petty Nerf.

Don't you tell anyone to push the meta. She's a horrible bottom 10 character, and now she's a meme at this point.

 

[Game7a1]

So far, the following characters are/were not directly touched/changed by this patch:

 

[MrGameguycolor]

A buff to Ptooie and a buff to edge-attack.

It ain't much, but it's something for the

 

[SoccerStar9001]

no offense but jesus am I cringing right now, patch culture is seriously a bad thing
just because someone did not receive buffs does not mean that their meta can't be pushed forwards
also, they actually got BUFFED since all projectiles got nerfed lol. they now have an easier time getting in
and lol @ bayo getting "nerfed" when she was basically unchanged aside from a universal projectiles nerf

be calm and don't freak out for small changes

Interesting, not all projectile got nerfed. Toon's arrow was untouched but Young's was. Sheik's was untouched but Bayo was.

I don't know if it was the patch note missed them but I don't understand why some projectile was nerfed and some aren't.

 

[xzx]

What bugs got squashed this time?

 

[SoccerStar9001]

What bugs got squashed this time?

No patch notes for bugs it seems.

 

[Phoenix_is_OK]

What bugs got squashed this time?

Zaxis schenanigans with DKs giant punch.

Olimar smash charge got fixed

 

[DelugeFGC]

Anyone else still not able to download anything? I keep seeing all these other people saying it's downloading and I keep getting communication errors at 0%.

 

[Sean²]

Nope, we killed the servers.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Thank the lord K. Rool was buffed!


Maybe not in the most need areas, but it's a step up considering how he was nerfed and also dropped down the tier list.
If he keep going this direction he may just avoid the path of .

 

[KakuCP9]

I don't understand why everyone went into this patch (or every patch for that matter) thinking it would clear their skin and water their crops. Even after a few months, they're not going just suddenly bring huge chunks of the cast up to scratch due to the sheer fact that they have to test a metric ton of stuff with a giant cast in order to make proper changes, unless you want more down throw confirm fixes like the previous game (also, consider DBZF where it took nearly a year for characters like Nappa, Beerus (and a lesser extent) Android 17 to become genuinely functional and that game wasn't nearly as big as this one in terms of cast size so it puts it into perspective how long it can take for character changing buffs to roll out.).
Hell, I imagine the universal projectile changes took priority of character specific stuff since while not meta dominant, they exposed a hole in ultimate's design where parrying them felt non-rewarding compared to the timing required (something the CCI talked about a while ago) and due to the weaker shields, can be frustrating to deal with (especially if the character has bad mobility). I don't know how it will play out, but I am intrigued by these changes.
The only thing I'm legitimately disappointed about is the lack of rock-crocking fix for Ganon and Falcon (but they fixed Pichu stupid hurtbox and Donkey Kong's giant punch so good on them for that).