Official Patch 3.0.0 - Persona Edition: Discussion Thread

[Shaya]

Hopefully you know the routine!

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/45075

We will hand out large infractions and/or temporary bans to those who stifle this process of patch exploration
Some examples include
1. Posting false changes, good intentions or not.
2. Asking if anything has changed when the patch notes are there for you to read.
3. Immature behavior and complaining over the patch changes.

When checking changes, remember that Ultimate has many different damage multipliers.

• Percent values taken from proper matches (non-training mode) have scaling adjustments based on it's current freshness; a 1% difference seen in a match may not be a real patch change and should be double checked before being posted.
• For aerials remember that aerials performed during a short hop have a x0.85 damage multiplier.
• Moves deal more damage in matches 1v1s than in matches with more than two players. This multiplier also applies to Training Mode.

~~~~~~~~~

Spoiler: What Nintendo's official patch notes terms mean

Quick notes about Nintendo's official patch notes based on trends noticed last time.

• "Launch distance" refers to knockback.
  • "Undamaged launch distance" refers very specifically to base knockback
• "Reduced Vulnerability" refers to reduced endlag.
  • Reduced Vulnerability when Landing" refers to reduced landing lag
• "Shortened landing time" is referring to a reduction in how much of the animation forces that move's landing state. In other words, it's a more lenient autocancel window
• "Hitstun time" refers to hitlag.
  • "Hitstun Shuffle Distance" refers to a move's SDI multiplier.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

I noted that the video did not say anything about character balance changes in the 3.0.0 update Like they said there was going to be when 2.0.0 was going to come out. I wonder if there is going to be or if they waiting a while for the next planned update

 

[Heracr055]

In the last Direct I believe they called 3.0 a major update without stipulating Joker would tie into it. So I imagine balance changing is a part of it.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

TBH I'm almost more excited for Mementos than any balance changes that may come with the update. I think we can safely assume that hazards off will disable the walls/ceilings, the solid platform, and the train, leaving us with a very reasonable layout.

 

[Envoy of Chaos]

In the Direct they announced 3.0.0 they said their will be balance changes so we should still see them. I personally did find it odd they didn't mention it and I honestly would be okay without any changes at the moment so the meta can still shake out.

Also per Nintendo's support page 3.0 will be out "by the end of the day" so who knows when they are considering the "end of the day". If it's going by JP time which is 13 hours ahead of east coast that could be a release time of no later than 12 PM EST (since it would be the 18th in JP). I'm pretty sure I did that time right lol.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

I'm just waiting on bated breath for those patch notes. Joker and Stage Builder are neat, but I want to see how characters were changed.

 

[PK Gaming]

I've been waiting for this day since Persona 5 came out in the West...

Can't believe he's almost here

 

[Game7a1]

According to the Nintendo's Network status page, there is a planned maintenance tomorrow from 5:50 to 7:30 PDT. So maybe after that is when the patch and Joker will release.

On another note, I might going out on a limb here, but Joker kind of reminds me of a mix between Brawl ZSS without her power suit items and Palutena (or Sheik, but his two forms make comparisons tricky). I'd like to hear from people who have played either character if they get a similar vibe or not.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Quick notes about Nintendo's official patch notes based on trends noticed last time.

• "Launch distance" refers to knockback.
  • "Undamaged launch distance" refers very specifically to base knockback
• "Reduced Vulnerability" refers to reduced endlag.
  • Reduced Vulnerability when Landing" refers to reduced landing lag
• "Shortened landing time" is referring to a reduction in how much of the animation forces that move's landing state. In other words, it's a more lenient autocancel window
• "Hitstun time" refers to hitlag.
  • "Hitstun Shuffle Distance" refers to a move's SDI multiplier.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Quick notes about Nintendo's official patch notes based on trends noticed last time.

• "Launch distance" refers to knockback.
  • "Undamaged launch distance" refers very specifically to base knockback
• "Reduced Vulnerability" refers to reduced endlag.
  • Reduced Vulnerability when Landing" refers to reduced landing lag
• "Shortened landing time" is referring to a reduction in how much of the animation forces that move's landing state. In other words, it's a more lenient autocancel window
• "Hitstun time" refers to hitlag.
  • "Hitstun Shuffle Distance" refers to a move's SDI multiplier.

I wish they hired someone from the Smash community who was familiar with both the Japanese terms and how they translate into the terms we use over here.
It would be extremely difficult to find someone with enough knowledge and credentials but I can only hope.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I just hope my main doesn't get sunk to the bottom of the ocean. Cause I'm too into Olimar to switch again.. but I kinda really like how good he is too LOL.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I just hope the patch isn't full of nerfs.

 

[Masonomace]

For anything that comes up as a change whether it be something about ledge-grab windows, autocancels, endlag reduction on a move, I'll be around to help after I get home from my local tournament around 11:30 PM CST.

 

[S_B]

Was sad to see they didn't add the ability to invite friends to matches or message them in game.

Ergo I'm most excited about balance changes at this point.

 

[Kairyu24]

I'm mostly interested in how reliable the stage sharing function is, and if you can make decent ''normal'' stages and platforms out of it. Specifically if you can search for a certain stage and get it 100% of the time.

Considering internet updates, unlocking, and paid DLC installation are already required for tournament consoles, is it totally out of the question to wonder the stage builder might ever used for competive play without hitting a logistic brick wall?

 

[Idon]

I'm mostly interested in how reliable the stage sharing function is, and if you can make decent ''normal'' stages and platforms out of it. Specifically if you can search for a certain stage and get it 100% of the time.

Considering internet updates, unlocking, and paid DLC installation are already required for tournament consoles, is it totally out of the question to wonder the stage builder might ever used for competive play without hitting a logistic brick wall?

I very much doubt you'll be able to get everyone to agree on a stage a fan made.

 

[Lacrimosa]

I hope the ceiling is away when we play hazardless Mementos.
Because the stage layout and so on look pretty legal for competitive use to mo otherwise.

 

[Nekoo]

Here praying that Ivysaur bull**** Hitboxes and Electric Rats Jank / Wolf Jank get nerfed to hell.
Buff some characters, Robin and Little mac desperately need that

 

[Tree Gelbman]

What time are we expecting this to drop?

 

[RealPokeFan11]

According to the Nintendo's Network status page, there is a planned maintenance tomorrow from 5:50 to 7:30 PDT. So maybe after that is when the patch and Joker will release.

On another note, I might going out on a limb here, but Joker kind of reminds me of a mix between Brawl ZSS without her power suit items and Palutena (or Sheik, but his two forms make comparisons tricky). I'd like to hear from people who have played either character if they get a similar vibe or not.

Maintenance should start at 8:50 AM EST.

Wait... it says PM. GOD DAMMIT!

 

[Tree Gelbman]

As late as that is for EST?

That's practically a release on the 18th. Lol.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

According to the Nintendo's Network status page, there is a planned maintenance tomorrow from 5:50 to 7:30 PDT. So maybe after that is when the patch and Joker will release.

On another note, I might going out on a limb here, but Joker kind of reminds me of a mix between Brawl ZSS without her power suit items and Palutena (or Sheik, but his two forms make comparisons tricky). I'd like to hear from people who have played either character if they get a similar vibe or not.

Yeah I got Brawl ZSS vibes from his up-b, but that's about it. I'm one of two people who really liked ZSS' Brawl up-b so I'm looking forward to trying it out.

With that said, whenever I see a character with that much stuff as DLC, I get a little nervous. I think none of us want another Bayonetta situation :/

The only nerfs I want to see is to stuff that's really egregious. Lightning loops and that sort of thing. But I would imagine that we'll probably see more than any of us want.

 

[Nate1080]

Joker’s down B looks sick. Eats combos/knockback, knocks close range opponents away and cuts damage in half? Wow.

On top of basically being limit break. I wonder how fast his meter will deplete when Arsene is out...

 

[arbustopachon]

i really hope they fix the z axis issues some moves have, looking at you plant uair.

Also give charizard back his short hop autocancelled fair.

 

[Boartobewild]

Joker’s down B looks sick. Eats combos/knockback, knocks close range opponents away and cuts damage in half? Wow.

On top of basically being limit break. I wonder how fast his meter will deplete when Arsene is out...

As long as you can beat/exploit it via command/grab like any other counter, it's fine.

 

[Nate1080]

As long as you can beat/exploit it via command/grab like any other counter, it's fine.

Oh, I’m not saying its busted. Jus a pretty good down B

 

[shinhed-echi]

Joker does give me an eerie reminder of Smash 4 Bayo though. Hope I’m wrong. The good thing is, no character with exclusively tether recovery can be that good.

... except maybe Zss in Brawl...?

 

[Nate1080]

Well it isn’t necessarily exclusive. Arsene gives him a much better recovery, though end lag from landing looks suspicious.

 

[Omnos]

Joker's Arsene recovery is identical to pits, you don't ever want to land with it lol. You snap to the ledge.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

In the last Direct I believe they called 3.0 a major update without stipulating Joker would tie into it. So I imagine balance changing is a part of it.

Well I hope they releas

 

[uhmuzing]

It's too early to say for sure, but judging from the video, Joker looks to me to be the exact ideal level of strength you want in DLC. Around Mario or Ness level, borderline high tier character. This way we don't have a Cloud/Bayo thing going on that makes people hate the character before long, but they still can feel that having to purchase the character is justified.

Among my initial impressions, Gun looks to be a fantastic tool normally and enhanced. By contrast, SideB legit looks pointless. The grappling hook could potentially be OP if he turns out to have combos that launch at an angle that UpB can pull them down again.

 

[FlappyFalco]

I think he'll be low mid tier because of his reliance on a counter and his tether recovery. He also seems to be lacking in kill power without his persona. Don't get me wrong Gun, will likely be a fantastic move, but one good move doesn't make a character broken, especially when it isn't a kill move.

 

[Boredatwork]

Here praying that Ivysaur bull**** Hitboxes

Cut the start-up on most of its attack so that she actually gets defensive options, and sure, up-air and down-air can get a small nerf.

 

[uhmuzing]

FlappyFalco you could be right, but the Rebellion meter whatever it's called seems to fill pretty quickly (I actually think losing the tether will mean some utility is lost trading off for the enhanced kit w Arsene). Or that's what it seems like. He could have kill power without the persona that's worse than YL but w the added advantage of being risky to attack as long as Rebel's Guard doesn't have much cooldown. That plus his bonkers mobility makes me doubt he won't end up at least in the upper half of the roster.

 

[FlappyFalco]

Cut the start-up on most of its attack so that she actually gets defensive options, and sure, up-air and down-air can get a small nerf.

And buff Charizard. Honestly I'd be wary of nerfing the characters just under the top 5 or so right now because it's already turning out to be a case of those same 5 winning every tournament. Even the likes of Palutena, Wario and Ike who have one or two broken moves should be left alone for now until Wolf and co. have their jank sorted out. I also don't think Olimar is that OP besides his side B doing a bit too much damage and Shuton is just a brilliant player, and while Fox, Pikachu are solid I wouldn't deem them broken.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Joker does give me an eerie reminder of Smash 4 Bayo though. Hope I’m wrong. The good thing is, no character with exclusively tether recovery can be that good.

... except maybe Zss in Brawl...?

I do believe olimar had a tether only recovery in brawl as well and did pretty good for himself.

Joker looks pretty sick and will probably be a hit and run character he seems like he's going to be really hard to hit. Should be fun playing him.

 

[shrooby]

As was discussed last time, this time and moving forward we'll be reporting percent changes using base damage. IE Without applying the 1v1 multiplier.
For people's convenience, though, I'll probably have both displayed in the Notes.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Joker does give me an eerie reminder of Smash 4 Bayo though. Hope I’m wrong. The good thing is, no character with exclusively tether recovery can be that good.

... except maybe Zss in Brawl...?

Bcrawl ZSS also had Flip Kick, high jumps, and another tether move (side B).

Without Arsene, it would appear that Joker relies on just the tether up B. We don't know how precisely good the tether is, his jump/air mobility is, or if using Guns in midair does anything, so definite conclusions on his recovery cannot be established yet. It looks right now below average, but it is not a huge deal breaker yet.

 

[Lore]

I'm very excited to see what changes are coming. My main hope is that they continue the trend of buffing more than nerfing.

 

[Lacrimosa]

Well it isn’t necessarily exclusive. Arsene gives him a much better recovery, though end lag from landing looks suspicious.

GimR said that he doesn't seem to like his recovery with Arsene. Yeah, we can't know for sure but I think he's got a very good grasp of what's going on.
We'll see. On paper than looks good but I think tethers are a bit harder to edgeguard than a pit-esque recovery.