Parachute Parade! - GnW Social Discussion

[NatP]

I love BF. It's the starter where you get the most room to do whatever you want. Not like freaking FD. Not saying it's a bad stage for g&w or that it's a bad stage period, I just hate it.

Anyway, it's confirmed. Rainbow Cruise is banned due to meta being "ZOMGWTHISGOINGON broken" there. I didn't particularly love this stage or even play on it that much, but I will also never agree with it being banned. Oh well.

 

[A2ZOMG]

D-tilt is a broken edgeguard on BF against large characters. Not to mention D-smash. They both hit quite low, so just stand on a platform while edgeguarding to limit their options massively.

 

[Vinnie]

I do the the most epic mindgames ever.

I was playing against my friend's Fox, and I managed to grab him at 98% on the top platform of BF. So like I could have just did a regular D-throw D-smash, but instead I deliberately charged D-smash and waited for him to roll because I can be epicly good at making reads. Since this was on the platform, he had no space to roll anyway, so I killed him of course.

I'm so cruel.

It's really broken on Brinstar, the 3 platforms, PLUS on the right side of the bubble things, it's the same thing. And also I dthrew Pyronic~Star on the bubble things in the middle, and he had no lag so he was able to grab me before I dsmashed, and bthrew me with a blue pikmin and I died...

 

[Melancholy]

Do the G&W boards have a team partners discussion thread?

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

^^ not a bad idea, at all, if we don't (i'm totally oblivious to what we do anymore)

someone experienced in teams *cough cough UTD Zac cough* should make a list of potential teammates (obviously I don't think someone like Bowser is worth including, at least at first) and the pro and cons to having that teammate, and strategies.

maybe the community will pick up on it (because as much as G&W has fallen, he will always be your best friend in teams) and use him a little more?

 

[kewl]

^^ not a bad idea, at all, if we don't (i'm totally oblivious to what we do anymore)

someone experienced in teams *cough cough UTD Zac cough* should make a list of potential teammates (obviously I don't think someone like Bowser is worth including, at least at first) and the pro and cons to having that teammate, and strategies.

maybe the community will pick up on it (because as much as G&W has fallen, he will always be your best friend in teams) and use him a little more?

g&w makes everyone, including bowser, look **** sexy in teams.
but yeah i guess it's a good idea to have a discussion like that.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

We've had numerous team discussion threads by my recollection, but feel free to start up a new one. I dont think anything new will be mentioned in it but its never a bad idea to revisit topics.

 

[Melancholy]

I was thinking something like what the Zelda and DK boards have done:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232505
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244611

Discussing Game&Watch's role in certain teams, strategies and stages for those teams and the like. G&W is one of the best teams characters, so it seems fitting we'd have a place to dicuss that.

I'd be happy to make and manage it if people would get involved. But maybe somebody more experienced would like to.

 

[Mike B]

Dear GnW boards,


Is there a list of percents and characters where you can upsmash out of downthrow, and instances where dsmash wont work out of d-throw?

 

[A2ZOMG]

You can't Up-smash anyone out of D-throw silly.

And I made another cool discovery. Perfectly timed ledgehop F-airs, as I've mentioned, they can autocancel. What I didn't mention is that it's actually a legitimate ISJR.

Looks pretty useful if you ask me. And it's not something that is unviably hard to pull off.

 

[Vinnie]

****, what do you guys think of the new DDD infinite on Gnw? :[

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229337

 

[Mike B]

You can't Up-smash anyone out of D-throw silly.

And I made another cool discovery. Perfectly timed ledgehop F-airs, as I've mentioned, they can autocancel. What I didn't mention is that it's actually a legitimate ISJR.

Looks pretty useful if you ask me. And it's not something that is unviably hard to pull off.

Mind you, I was able to do that on a lot of CPUs. How about Dsmash then?

 

[Today]

Wow, I haven't been here in awhile. D:
How is everyone doing? We should be uh-- more social!

 

[NatP]

Hey everyone go here and give your opinion. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=255853

 

[kewl]

i can't stop listening to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M11SvDtPBhA

i blame eggz

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I was bored so I made this comparison between the startup times on G&W and Wario. Take this as you will, it was just something I was curious to look at.

 

[UTDZac]

Mr Escalator, I think you are off my 1 frame for all of those for G&W at least. You have them listed as coming out 1 frame early.

EDIT: Even the smashes are off by one frame. Dsmash comes out frame 15.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

If you used PSA, you have to add 1 frame to everything.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I said Startup.
The time before it first hits.

 

[kewl]

lol
i just attended the gayest tournament ever.
Panafoto (which is like the Best Buy here in Panama) threw a tourny, $10 to enter, no venue fee.
Prize was:
1st place 42" Plasma TV, 2nd place Wii, 3rd place DSi

I was like cool, i could actually win a Plasma since i'm ranked 4th on the PR and all cool. I get there and i notice the 3 people that usually knock me out of tournys aren't there. (Snake, Falco, Wario mains)

the rest of the top players were there, including me, so i thought to myself, **** i actually got a chance to win this shindig.
So they start the TVs, they were brand new wiis. >.> I'm like come on now wtf. No gw? what am i supposed to do, ICs ive never thrown in a tournament, Bowser vs MKs i'll probably get owned. wtf.

so i went full MK and got 7th out of 72 XD
Aw man and the finalist were 2 of the top players, (obviously top 10 was the top players in panama)
it was ICs vs MK, on a laggy as ****, big as ****, and ****ty as TV, so practially they gave away the prize to the MK. xD

man o man, ****ty tournaments. that's why i run them all down here. can't wait till pound 4. >.>

edit: worst part, last minute they decided to take away 2 out of 3, and just make it where if you lose you lost and go to losers bracket. i lost to someone i never lose against. wutev

 

[Alphicans]

Wow wtf were they thinking? Those are some really nice prizes and they don't even offer players the full cast of brawl >_>. That must suck man.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Vinnie you scared me, don't do that

 

[izzy24]

****, what do you guys think of the new DDD infinite on Gnw? :[

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=229337

dang.......i think Im quitting gaw now LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Vinnie]

lololol

Spoiler

muhhahahahaha

 

[Mr. Escalator]

It seems G&W has the absolute best cooldown of the entire cast.

<HotGarbage> peach's average ground move cooldown: 19.56
<HotGarbage> MK's: 19.42
<HotGarbage> G&W's: 10.88
<MrEsc> mk is probably closer in aerial cooldown
<HotGarbage> in strictly aerial cooldown it's 13 G&W vs 17 MK

No autocanceling counted in the aerial cooldown, I want to add. Lucario seems to have the second best ground cooldown after G&W from the guys we checked but the gap between him and G&W is substantial.

So yeah G&W probably is a bit below average in startup, but he has the very best cooldown by a large margin, lol. I can live with this!

 

[Alphicans]

Slow startup allows opponents to actually react. GaW has the ****ty end of the gifted stick .

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Not slow startup; below average startup. As I showed in the image earlier, G&W's startup across his moves is averaged to around 9 frames. That's well below typical reaction time, and only the quickest reaction times is close, and even than his moves arent telegraphed in animation at all.

And one thing never taken into consideration about startup is the range of moves. Characters with great range but horrible startup time have an easier time throwing out moves than characters with horrible range and below average startup or probably even average. Spacing remedies startup time by more than most consider.

G&W doesnt suffer from slow startup, yet he has amazing range, amazing lingering hitboxes, and the best cooldown of any character. He's such a beast.

 

[Alphicans]

reaction time less than .1 seconds is considered inhuman. GaW's smashes are all within that time to be reacted and punished/dodged/shielded.

 

[Neb]

Hm, that's really neat. G&W is so unique

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Of course his smashes are, I didnt say anything to suggest you cant. I said on AVERAGE his moveset is below average. If you dont include his smashes his average is actually so much better.

His smashes are actually still amazing though. You cant really powershield them because of amazing charge release, they all **** spotdodging, and they clean up regular shields for various reasons. Because of beastly cooldown it isnt like you are getting punished for not hitting anything anyways.

Slow startup on his smashes is MORE THAN made up by all their great properties. The rest of his moveset has solid startup if you ignore smashes.

 

[Alphicans]

Yeah the average doesn't matter when talking about this kind of thing, only moves like smashes do. I've never been in a situation where I successfully reacted to an aerial and punished because of it, but I've punished smashes plenty, and unfortunately GaW's smashes are pretty easy to punish.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Uh.

Since when? His smashes are pretty much known for being amazingly safe and hard to punish. The actual, not made up, issue with them is that their startup means it can be interrupted or, more commonly done, just avoided.

His average actually does mean a lot when talking about G&W as a whole. It's usually cited that G&W's startup sucks. The average I posted showed that including his smashes he is simply below average. His smashes arent actually used that much over his other ground options or aerials so if you don't include them his average is actually respectable.

It's to help illustrate that startup is really a non issue for Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[Alphicans]

Vs characters that matter like MK, snake, falco, marth, diddy etc. GaW's smashes all come with a risk. Most of these characters can heavily punish GaW if they shield his smashes (mk dsmash, snake ftilt, falco grab, diddy banana stuff, marth could just counter if he wanted to or dancing blade or a lot of things really). I am really not convinced that GaW's startup average is useful in anyway or shows him as a good character. His smashes are what matter with this data and they don't boast much.

I think GaW is a really underrated and amazing character but not because of this chart.

 

[UTDZac]

Slow startup allows opponents to actually react. GaW has the ****ty end of the gifted stick .

Yeah the average doesn't matter when talking about this kind of thing, only moves like smashes do.

Vs characters that matter like MK, snake, falco, marth, diddy etc. GaW's smashes all come with a risk. Most of these characters can heavily punish GaW if they shield his smashes (mk dsmash, snake ftilt, falco grab, diddy banana stuff, marth could just counter if he wanted to or dancing blade or a lot of things really). I am really not convinced that GaW's startup average is useful in anyway or shows him as a good character. His smashes are what matter with this data and they don't boast much.

I think GaW is a really underrated and amazing character but not because of this chart.

I agree with Alphicans on this one...

...gifted stick... lol

 

[Mr. Escalator]

I'm not even gonna bother continue discussing anything with you as you're saying dumb stuff in regards to his bad matchups being the premier punishers of his smashes. He loses to those characters for different reasons unassociated with his smashes, and his smashes are actually still immensely safe versus them. Try this example on for size; G&W Usmashes Snake's shield. Snake now has 9 frames to drop his shield (which takes 7 frames) so he ends up with two left over. His ftilt doesnt hit on frame 2, so G&W can powershield that easily. His jab is also powershieldable, and even if it were quick enough the shield pushback probably knocks him out of range.

And all of this is under the assumption that G&W didn't charge his Usmash at all. The shieldstun scales with how long it is charged, so if it is charged a bit G&W actually can act before Snake can drop his shield.

This is an extreme example using G&W's safest smashes, but you have to remember Snake is an extreme example too because he has amazingly quick long ranged moves. On other characters even if they can act before G&W can put up his shield, their quickest moves dont reach him after pushback, so they have to move up or use a slower move, and even executed perfectly many characters don't have something that can punish him consistently. This also doesn't take into account human error or the charge of the smash. Also, his Fsmash can shield poke too, so that's another thing.

Yes, Snake can punish G&W's smashes typically except his Usmash. He's pretty much the only one of those you listed that can do it no sweat, MK being the likely second best.

The chart and the fact that I have mentioned that he has the lowest cooldown has NOTHING to do with me trying to prove something about G&W. I'm not trying to convince anyone G&W is great (he is however), this is just a "hey isn't this interesting?" sort of thing, which you then brought the argument up. This is something both me and HG did out of curiosity, and I personally did the startup chart because I was curious how much the G&W has ****ty startup time statement was true. The average illustrates this is incorrect and a more correct statement would be "G&W's slow startup on smashes hurts his kill potential which hurts him as a character" opposed to "G&W's bad startup hurts him". Making statements like "His smashes are what matter with this data and they don't boast much" are laughable and indicate a lack of scope in regards to interpreting the data I posted. Lets just drop it. I'm posting thing I think are cool and I'm just drawing out comparisons with other character's frame data.

And I can't believe Zac thinks his Smashes actually are the point to the data. I would of expected more from him, tbh. Well, he didn't actually note the difference between startup and when a move hits so I guess it isnt too unbelievable.

Neb at least appreciated these fun facts. Thanks bro.

 

[Alphicans]

Calling me dumb, saying you don't want to discuss then presenting two paragraphs worth of discussion. Nice. His worst match-ups happen to be the most common characters in smash and they all punish is smashes pretty well. Shielding usmash isn't really necessary when it takes forever to start. I am not saying the smashes are the point of the data I am saying they are the most important because when doing an aerial, rarely does it matter how long it takes unless it's ike's fair or some ridiculously slow move.

 

[PentaSalia]

lol....gifted stick

:X


tho idk why we're arguing really=/

it was a good find nonetheless

 

[Mr. Escalator]

When did I call you dumb?
Nice try.

edit: Idk why this started to begin with though. I thought you guys would enjoy knowing G&W has the least cooldown of any character we checked so far. It's just something cool

btw we havent checked Olimar. He is a canidate for having amazing cooldown so lets see if he is good enough.

 

[Vinnie]

GnW is a good character on paper but gets screwed by matchups.

Spoiler

I wanna take a ride on your gifted stick.

 

[A2ZOMG]

When did I call you dumb?
Nice try.

edit: Idk why this started to begin with though. I thought you guys would enjoy knowing G&W has the least cooldown of any character we checked so far. It's just something cool

btw we havent checked Olimar. He is a canidate for having amazing cooldown so lets see if he is good enough.

His grab, SideB, and tilts have low ending lag...everything else...not so impressive.