Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

[BSP]

I uploaded a video ysterday:

Buffer a hydrant on a ledge jump off. You will notice that there aren't water gushes...

I didn't understand it, but it seems that it remains like in the air.... it deals 9% damage.

As if we needed better ledge traps. This one is pretty busted though. From the .gif that Pacman9 posted, the dried hydrant covers standard getup. We need to see if it hits people if they try to getup attack (my guess is yes since I think most characters have some vulnerable frames before the ledge attack comes out) and it probably hits some characters if they remain on the ledge. If it does, all we have to do is wait at ledge roll distance away and charge an Usmash.

I think @ TheReflexWonder said you normally can't buffer actions out of ledge jump except an item drop. If that's the case, this is a very tight window.

This is what happens when they remove one glitch from Pac-Man...

We've had at least three more glitches occur because Sakurai took out hydrant playforming.

3? Let me keep track. 1 is trampoline through the stage, 2 is scaring through the stage with trampoline, and 3 is this most recent one, right?

Jeez.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I think @ TheReflexWonder said you normally can't buffer actions out of ledge jump except an item drop. If that's the case, this is a very tight window.

That's correct. You probably have to be frame-perfect and press it on the first frame it will read your inputs. Little Mac has a similar quirk:

 

[fromundaman]

Yooooo this is super dumb too!

If this hits below the ledge, then this will deny the ledge from any recovering character by hitting during the 2 frames of vulnerability.
Even better, combined with the trampoline glitch, we can phase people through the stage to the ledge (Anytime trampoline glitch is activated close to the ledge or almost anywhere on dreamland this will happen) where they would instantly be hit by the hydrant for a stage spike.
God I need to go into training mode immediately because right now I'm theory fighting, but if this allows us to teleport people into a stagespike...


Even if it doesn't, characters that don't snap to the ledge or have their hurtboxes extend past the ledge on UpBs are screwed.


Phew, now I don't have to worry about my training partner's Kirby outplaying me anymore!

 

[fromundaman]

So quick question:

What is the actual timing for this? Is it confirmed to be the first available frame after a ledge jump?

I can't seem to pull this off for Pac even at 1/4 speed. I can somewhat do Little Mac's ledge special cancel things that Reflex showed but Pacman's timing seems different.

 

[Nu~]

So quick question:

What is the actual timing for this? Is it confirmed to be the first available frame after a ledge jump?

I can't seem to pull this off for Pac even at 1/4 speed. I can somewhat do Little Mac's ledge special cancel things that Reflex showed but Pacman's timing seems different.

PEPESPAIN says that he will make a video on it later on today. I don't even understand the timing myself

 

[fromundaman]

The more I try it the more it seems like it has to be done on the first frame after the ledge jump after all, but that Pacman's ledge jump animation is really weird so the timing needs to be slightly delayed.

That said, I could be completely wrong; I still can't get it to work.

 

[Joecreak]

I uploaded a video ysterday:

Buffer a hydrant on a ledge jump off. You will notice that there aren't water gushes...

I tried this glitch a bunch of times and i got it 3 times with the regular trick to pull of a hydrant which went throught the stage and 1 time with that buffered edge jump.

I Have the feeling that the hydrant slide offstage sometimes and the few times i got that glitch it went half offstage and half onstage which made the hydrant flying all the time(9% DMG to an enemy as you said).

Maybe i failed with the buffering so far maybe someone(Pepespain) get a straight video how to pull this glitch easier off.

 

[Exceladon City]

Try it on different stages. Different slopes for different blokes. I'll mess around with it myself.

I've decided to pick up Pac-Man for labbing purposes. He'd make an interesting secondary.

 

[Revibe]

Have a "Safe Landing"!
Watch out for "Fallout".
"Yellow" did I "blue" your mind?
A tier list? let's get you in 'line'!
"SPACING OUT"


O.k. I've been gone a while and I'm going to check the last couple of pages. Loving the new techs. Now here are some of my cards I'm bringing to the table:
I noticed that after the Red Trampoline is broken while ledge grabbing is the cause, you can't perform up-b if you drop from the ledge. I think it works for all characters, including pac-man watch out. I forget the exact details and I might of mentioned it a while back. I don't know, has anyone else more information this have?

Also a friendly reminder that Side-B has no end lag when grabbing a ledge. Or you could fast-fall out of it off the stage for less punishment on your side. Keep up your edge games everyone, i believe Pac-Man has the most advantages there, especially if you keep your Ledge invincibility in perspective. OH!!!!!!!! Right, I just remembered that using the the trampoline to attack has a great follow up move if you have proper placement. You know, when you can grab the edge asap out of bounce. I followed up with two jumps and an up-air right after a yellow/red bounce. Thanks to the ledge, I had enough time to catch up with the hitstun and get a topscreen K.O.. I was surprised.

 

[abit_rusty]

Try it on different stages. Different slopes for different blokes. I'll mess around with it myself.

I've decided to pick up Pac-Man for labbing purposes. He'd make an interesting secondary.

heh. "secondary"

once you go Pac you never go back!

 

[Exceladon City]

heh. "secondary"

once you go Pac you never go back!

Eh, I have my hands full with making Dedede good. Pac Man will help with my neutral game for sure.

 

[abit_rusty]

I think many here will agree with me when I say that Pacman in neutral plays nothing like the majority of the cast. Many times it feels like I am playing my opponent's game for them. That, or they're playing right into mine.

 

[Exceladon City]

I think many here will agree with me when I say that Pacman in neutral plays nothing like the majority of the cast. Many times it feels like I am playing my opponent's game for them. That, or they're playing right into mine.

I have an affinity for trap-oriented characters. I'm a Rocket Raccoon player in UMvC3; as well as a Nathan Drake/Spike main in PSABR. Surprisingly, I didn't main Snake in Brawl. Pac Man feels similar to Rocket Raccoon.

 

[abit_rusty]

A fellow RR main!? Niiiiice.

Yeah, I get the Snake vibes from pacman, big time.

 

[Nu~]

A fellow RR main!? Niiiiice.

Yeah, I get the Snake vibes from pacman, big time.

Except we actually have an air game lol

 

[Exceladon City]

Coming up with goofy traps is a hobby of mine. FH Cherry > Hydrant is a good wall. Cherry is underrated imo.

 

[Nu~]

Coming up with goofy traps is a hobby of mine. FH Cherry > Hydrant is a good wall. Cherry is underrated imo.

I was just thinking of the same thing!
I wondered, "how much potential of the cherry are we truly missing?"

DITCIT Cherry leads to grabs and kill confirms. Z drop cherries can lead to gimps.

A cherry in the hand is similar to a turnip, but covers even more space since it bounces.

 

[Exceladon City]

Cherries and Strawberries work like Wario's tires in Brawl; you can bounce them and create little walls or cover yourself from approaches. Strawberries bounce higher than cherries.

DITCIT?

 

[Nu~]

Cherries and Strawberries work like Wario's tires in Brawl; you can bounce them and create little walls or cover yourself from approaches. Strawberries bounce higher than cherries.

DITCIT?

Check out my thread right here: http://smashboards.com/threads/ditcit-combos-and-strategies.404343/

And yes, they are good for defensive purposes as well. Especially against SH aerial approaches.

 

[fromundaman]

Oh hey Excel, long time no see.

Welcome to the pacman club!

Any chance we might see each other at any upcoming events?

 

[BSP]

I think many here will agree with me when I say that Pacman in neutral plays nothing like the majority of the cast. Many times it feels like I am playing my opponent's game for them. That, or they're playing right into mine.

I've said my neutral game with others is becoming worse because I'm used to being able to control neutral with Pac-Man. For example, I used to be scared when I was Pac-Man instead of Mario when I ran into Sonic, Fox, or Falcon. Now, I'm more worried when I'm Mario because he has to deal with their running and grab games, unlike Pac-Man.

 

[Exceladon City]

Oh hey Excel, long time no see.

Welcome to the pacman club!

Any chance we might see each other at any upcoming events?

Sup Fro, it's been a while. -- Possibly; depends on how many virgins I can wrangle up and sacrifice. In all seriousness, I have no idea the next time I'm going to a tournament. Until then, I'll just be at home conjuring up a bunch of jank biz for Pac Man. Time to progress the meta!

 

[fromundaman]

So that Angry hydrant thing... This **** is broken.

You know how I said projectiles clashed with it and when you hit it it nullified the hitbox? Well I was partially wrong and apparently for *most* projectiles it doesn't actually nullify the hitbox, hydrant just kills the projectile and stays active.

On top of this, from what I have seen ANY physical attack that hits the hydrant will clash, putting the opponent in that "clash lag" while we are at neutral.

Once it HAS been nullified, it acts as a wall for us. We can hit people against it, but since we can't launch the hydrant and the hydrant isn't pushing us away with water, this means we essentially just created a corner in a game without corners. FtiltX3-4 is now a true combo. Jab x Infinity is a true combo at low/mid percents. At low %s, Fair>Nair combos into itself until they either get high enough to get launched through the hydrant or it disappears. Dthrow combos into anything at low-mid %s since they just get stopped and float on the hydrant in front of you in hitstun.

What this means:

When you have a stock lead, or any time you need to charge to a specific bonus fruit, just go to the right side and lay this down, then stand in/next to/behind it. You are now at a ridiculous positional advantage where most characters cannot reach you without leaving themselves open for a punish.
If they try to nullify the hydrant, you can punish them during their "clash lag", and if you knock them in the direction of the newly nullified hydrant, you started a corner combo.

If they decide not to approach you due to the ridiculous positional advantage you have, you can just keep charging and throwing fruits, then retaking the ledge for a new angry hydrant as the previous one runs out. Thanks to the fact that we can't hit our own angry hydrant, our fruits will go right through it. This means you can camp the opponent safely without ever having to leave the ledge unless it's to punish someone trying to nullify the hydrant.




This is really super dumb and something we should all abuse until it inevitably gets patched out.

 

[Revibe]

Sounds like it's very fun to play! I still can't figure it out, and i'm going to go look it up shortly again to see what i'm missing.

Also I wanted to bring up the subject of edge guarding again. Specifically ledge trumping. I've noticed that on omega stages like Finals Destination, that don't have walls, if you can land a hydrant (or a bell I believe) on an opponent vulnerably holding the ledge they get stage spiked. I landed on not to long ago on an opponent around 14% bringing them up to about 23%, and I think it looks like an extra 12% would have made it impossible for them to recover.

Was this mentioned before, I forget.

 

[NouveauRétro]

I've got it to about 70% success rate offline(5% online lol, gave up trying to abuse this on FG like I did the trapdoor)
But I cannot get the glitch to work on either of the Animal Crossing Omegas! Tried it for like 3 minutes straight on each, occasionally went to other stages to make sure I still have my touch, then went back and failed again!
It looks like when I get the input right, the hydrant just slips off the ledge and falls off the stage.
Can I get a second opinion that Angry Hydrant doesn't work on certain Omegas?

 

[NouveauRétro]

Epke's Wonderland.
Mappy Pepperspray
Hack and Jump
Rise and Pitfall
One up and one down
The Elevator
Only the trampolines and the rest is lava.
Portal 4
Another Deemension
Now Scrampoline

This is my forte.

Wow. Let's keep it simple and not a terrible pun or cringeworthy wordplay.

I vote Trapdoor.

 

[Nu~]

I've got it to about 70% success rate offline(5% online lol, gave up trying to abuse this on FG like I did the trapdoor)
But I cannot get the glitch to work on either the Animal Crossing Omegas! Tried it for like 3 minutes straight on each, occasionally went to other stages to make sure I still have my touch, then went back and failed again!
It looks like when I get the input right, the hydrant just slips off the ledge and falls off the stage.
Can I get a second opinion that Angry Hydrant doesn't work on certain Omegas?

I can confirm. Must have to do with how slanted and tiny the edges are.

Good thing no one picks omega animal crossing stages lol

 

[Revibe]

Today, I found 2 note worthy actions I performed, and then I had one question unrelated.

1. Since the hydrant through platforms was patched, I've seen myself go through the hydrant while it was on spawn. This means you don't have to jump off the hydrant after performing it. We are dealing with exact frame actions again, but I think you might need some horizontal speed when performing it as well.

2.The exact timing to get a trampoline as close to the ledge so that you can hit down set off a trampoline bounce and instantly grab the ledge again (something closest to that) would once again be "frame perfect" but the timing is basically hitting UpB at the same time as performing a ledge grab. (Keep in mind the actual space of when the ledge grab animation happens is about 1/2 inch on the 3DS. (right?) well, just remember there is range on the return, it would help you get timing down.)
-But seriously guys, if someone first grabs the ledge and breaks a red trampoline, i've seen it turn off the UpB. (It was really late another night, but I accidentally broke my own trampoline this way and I got back onto the stage thinking I was safe, even set down a hydrant, was tossed off the stage and my UpB still didn't work. Feedback would be great, this could be meta changing!)


Q. Does the Bell add another dose of hitstun and knock back if a opponent lands on the trampoline and bounces into it?
-I've seen how usually if you try to combo hit an opponent directly after a fresh bell, it basically just adds damage and has no knock back or hit-stun. I know that the knock back and hit-stun return after the opponent stage recovers/ a.k.a lands, but does the trampoline count as a 'landing' that they may be knocked back again, in the air?

 

[NouveauRétro]

Today, I found 2 note worthy actions I performed, and then I had one question unrelated.

1. Since the hydrant through platforms was patched, I've seen myself go through the hydrant while it was on spawn. This means you don't have to jump off the hydrant after performing it. We are dealing with exact frame actions again, but I think you might need some horizontal speed when performing it as well.

Going through a fresh hydrant on spawn is nothing new when there are platforms, but it's interesting that now you can theoretically perform it on an Omega.

 

[Nu~]

Some of you may already know this movement tech, but how deep have you guys thought about it's potential for us?

I remember when @Firedemon0 talked about how our dash attack gives us a lot of good ground mobility and mixups, so what if we mixed that with this fox trot canceling technique? In theory, this should give us a stronger ground game because we can attack out of all of our dashes and really trip the opponent up in neutral.

This could potentially help our ground movement by a large margin. Especially since dash attack is so safe to throw out (if it doesn't touch a shield) and since our fox trot dash goes pretty far.

Edit: Add in the fact that our initial dash has a strangely big window near the end in which we can throw out an attack that carries over the momentum from the previous dash cancel.

 

[PEPESPAIN]

I discovered something new.

We can DICTIC uthrow with the apple in the opposite direction of our enemy and while you are sliding perform an hydrant, the apple will be pushed by the water gush. It is the fastest method to perform this trap .

 

[Joecreak]

We can DICTIC uthrow with the apple in the opposite direction of our enemy and while you are sliding perform an hydrant, the apple will be pushed by the water gush.

It doesn't seem to work for me.
The apple will always disappear before the water is coming out of the hydrant. :O (tested it on SV)

 

[PEPESPAIN]

You are not doing it right. The apple bounces 9 times...

 

[Joecreak]

You are not doing it right. The apple bounces 9 times...

I see the problem now :O My Apple is bouncing 4 times and disappears so that is why it doesn't worked :O

 

[PEPESPAIN]

are you uthrowing it?

 

[Joecreak]

yeah ditcit upthrow just as you mentioned before and it always will disappear after 4 bounces i wonder why it doesn't bounce 9 times like u described it .. hmm

 

[PEPESPAIN]

How do you pick it? I noticed if the fruit hit on opponent it lasts longer.... maybe you are picking it with the water gush

 

[Joecreak]

yeah that is right im picking it up with the water gush to test it that was the problem.
I always wondered why the apple does bounce sometimes more often and it is as you said. If u hit the enemy and repick it, it will last longer/has 9 bounces. :O
Okay thanks that solved the problem

EDIT: the second problem was that my trainingsdummy is link and he shielded every fruit and it doesnt counted as hit x'D

 

[Nu~]

So now fruits have a set number of bounces??
This is interesting...may be useful in the future

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Every fruit except the bell, the key and the galaga boss lasts longer if you hit anywhere ( i think the hydrant counts as a hit ) The cherry from 2 bounces to 3, the apple from 4 to 9 etc...