Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

[AGES]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VlaO_Lk7ck

Finally got around to making that video I mentioned earlier. Sorry about the poor sound quality, hoping to get a new mic soon but for now am using earbuds with a cheap built-in mic lol

Loving this DITCIT stuff, might add some to the OP later on

 

[PEPESPAIN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VlaO_Lk7ck

Finally got around to making that video I mentioned earlier. Sorry about the poor sound quality, hoping to get a new mic soon but for now am using earbuds with a cheap built-in mic lol

Loving this DITCIT stuff, might add some to the OP later on

No real Game?

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Bell DICTIC uthrow to Dtilt to sideB. If you are close enough and dtilt your enemy it will be launched in the opposite direction and the will be stunned by the bell

 

[Nu~]

Bell DICTIC uthrow to Dtilt to sideB. If you are close enough and dtilt your enemy it will be launched in the opposite direction and the will be stunned by the bell

Nice!!
We can always count on you to come up with the wackiest uses for moves.

I'll add your DITCIT combos to my thread.

 

[Nu~]

So I have discovered something new!

Our Dtilt has a disjoint with great priority. I was able to beat sonic's spin dash with it. You can test it yourself. If the Dtilt clanks, you hit with the non disjoint, but if it flat out beats spin dash, you have found the disjoint.

Another way to beat spin dash and a stronger tool in footsies

 

[PEPESPAIN]

This video only will be up for some hours, I'm doing something big....

 

[Nu~]

This video only will be up for some hours, I'm doing something big....

How did you cancel out the hydrant??

 

[PEPESPAIN]

How did you cancel out the hydrant??

Sometimes it hits on the fruit, nothing else, I didn't cancel anything out

 

[NGulfViper]

I'm completely new here and wondering if the DITCIT input can be shown in a video @ PEPESPAIN

 

[Nu~]

I'm completely new here and wondering if the DITCIT input can be shown in a video @ PEPESPAIN

I have a thread that also demonstrates some forward DITCIT combos: http://smashboards.com/threads/ditcit-combos-and-strategies.404343/

 

[NGulfViper]

I don't have a gamecube controller so is "Z" grab?

 

[NGulfViper]

So, this is pretty much dash grab cancel items?

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Yes, it is grab

 

[Afrobandit]

I wonder if anyone here can help with more research on the Standing Uair. I've been in the lab for awhile now and found more interesting things like how you can drift towards your opponent during the SUair for more followups such as on Cpt. Falcon around 40-50% SUair->Grab (+1 pummel)->Dthrow-> Key. I have more listed in the Standing Uair thread (http://smashboards.com/threads/pac-man-standing-up-aerial.401308/#post-19686868) but need someone else who can help confirm these true combos with their partner as I'm stuck with practice mode dummy and lvl.9 com for testing escape options.

 

[Nu~]

How many of you guys have experimented with wavebounced fruit?

I believe that we can use it to make our SH retreating Fair approaches more threatening. Instead of retreating back with nothing, we can immediately Wavebounce backwards with any fruit of choice to cover an opponent trying to run in after us.

We could potentially use B-reverses to follow up on Bair walling as well.
Bair-> B-reverse key sounds lethal on paper, but I have to test it more extensively.

 

[AGES]

How many of you guys have experimented with wavebounced fruit?

I believe that we can use it to make our SH retreating Fair approaches more threatening. Instead of retreating back with nothing, we can immediately Wavebounce backwards with any fruit of choice to cover an opponent trying to run in after us.

We could potentially use it to follow up on Bair walling as well.
Bair-> WB key sounds lethal on paper, but I have to test it more extensively.

Damn, all this time and I never even thought about wavebouncing keys. Definitely feels like there's some potential to that.

Anyway updated op with recent happenings of the recent patch. Rip 2 glitches, but in tradition yet another one has appeared.

 

[Revibe]

Wave bounced fruit?
Is that like z-dropping a fruit into a soft hydrant spurt?

 

[Nu~]

Wave bounced fruit?
Is that like z-dropping a fruit into a soft hydrant spurt?

http://youtu.be/Vw1elkJwtDo

 

[ultimatemaster]

does anyone have a pac man advance video guide

 

[Revibe]

http://youtu.be/Vw1elkJwtDo

Thank you! Also this reminds me of a match I saved were the opponent launched the hydrant at me, but I went in the exact opposite way when stricken. I think I had hit down b to an empty hydrant but also had a b-reverse/wave bounce infused when being punished. I was at a high percent, I still got k.o'd at the top of the screen, but I was on the wrong side. If this is just a strange incident or a future tech, I don't know needs further observed.

 

[Kaiyedy]

Tinkered around with it some more.

Doing it 3 times with the key is an easy 45% true combo. Doing it more times after that is hard.

Edit: you don't have to immediately Z Drop after catching it. You want to pause a little bit between the z drops to give the opponent time to bounce back to level ground.

Once you get to 4-6 jumps, you may want to buffer the z drop. I was able to do it in 1/4 speed, but it's difficult in real time.

Super EDIT: You want to know something ironic? We can't perform more than a 2 hit key combo on bowser because he's so tall that he elevated us too far away from the key.
Maybe it will work with the other fruits though...Pikachu has been easy to combo with the key.
Heh, characters that don't get comboed easily are the ones most susceptible.

Super duper EDIT: .

(If you can manage to jump on bowsers head 2 times before you start this combo, then you can do it 3 times lol)

I can do this to pikachu 6 times, 3 times on shiek, and 2 times on bowser.

The shorter you are, the better this is.

I know this probably isn't relevant anymore, but after seeing the vine video I've been trying to do this for about 5 hours now, and every time I try to grab the fruit back I nair and hit them out of the combo. Help, please???

 

[Nu~]

I know this probably isn't relevant anymore, but after seeing the vine video I've been trying to do this for about 5 hours now, and every time I try to grab the fruit back I nair and hit them out of the combo. Help, please???

Are you recatching the fruit with the grab button?

 

[Kaiyedy]

Are you recatching the fruit with the grab button?

Whenever I try that, it puts me into a airdodge and when I try to z-drop again, it makes me throw the fruit.

 

[Nu~]

Whenever I try that, it puts me into a airdodge and when I try to z-drop again, it makes me throw the fruit.

You have to tap the button fast. By tapping the z button fast when the fruit is near you, you grab it without airdodging

 

[fromundaman]

http://youtu.be/Vw1elkJwtDo

Wow... I have been wrong about what a wavebounce is for the last uhhh... when did Brawl come out? 7 years?

Anyway ty, I always thought backwards B reverse was a wavebounce and as a result didn't realize what wavebouncing actually is was a thing.

 

[Revibe]

I don't always have a lot of computer time, so I have a soft request. Can we discuss Trampoline combo's in detail again, plz?

I have Yellow trampoline to double footstool identified and in fine tuning.

I also know that the red line half way over the ledge trips up hasty attackers that hold direction input (like down) to ledge grab pass to k.o.

I have about 2 other tricks that are fun but I am still having trouble finding a 'gourmet recipe' for using it. What do you guys think/remember specifically for the trampoline, and it doesn't have to be combo related.

 

[AGES]

Opponents hitting your trampoline are basically as if they just did their first jump, meaning they can perform any air attack immediately after they hit the trampoline, including air dodge and double jump. This means in order for trampoline combos to be true the followup hitbox must be directly above the trampoline so they can be caught before they are able to air dodge or escape in some other way. The exception to this is being hit by the attack portion of Pac-Jump, where the next hitbox, whether it be a fruit or hydrant, can be further up thanks to the opponent being caught in hitstun/possibly being launched higher from the attack.

Something I've noticed in some videos is using this technique as an edgeguard as well. For example throwing a melon upwards, then using the trampoline to hit the recovering opponent into the melon. Not sure how practical this really is but melon has a bit of muscle to it so if you land this it can kill at reasonable percents. Keep in mind fruits are unaffected by rage/staling

 

[MachoCheeze]

Something I've noticed in some videos is using this technique as an edgeguard as well. For example throwing a melon upwards, then using the trampoline to hit the recovering opponent into the melon. Not sure how practical this really is but melon has a bit of muscle to it so if you land this it can kill at reasonable percents. Keep in mind fruits are unaffected by rage/staling

I do this all of the time and score a lot of my KO's that way. This is inreadibly good on the ledge, and if they catch on they'll either jump back or stay on the ledge so you get positional advantage either with. It's also go to mix this up with apple.

 

[fromundaman]

When in doubt, trampoline.



On a side note, has anyone been messing with the thing I don't think has a name where you do -> <- really fast to cancel the initial frames of a dash into a dash in the other direction? When you do a grab or DA out of this you get an extra boost. I know Ally uses it a ton to get grabs on Mario.

Been a while since I posted, but here's stuff I found with that recently:

When combined with Hydrant water this gives us a LARGE momentum boost on our grabs and DA. Grabs cover like half the stage instantaneously, and the DA this is situationally useful by itself, but a lot more valuable when mixed with ledges and traps. When you do the DA boost near the ledge, then have the water push you off the ledge, you retain the momentum boost but go back to neutral. This is really good for chasing offstage while making it seem like you just messed up.
Also PepeSpain's Pacman video that was frontpaged had a thing where he ran off the hydrant and immediately Z-dropped a melon ( https://youtu.be/Br3nKDDzhgA?t=2m6s ). Well this mixes really well with the DA thing as it hits right as the DA ends, either comboing or making you *more* safe on shield (Oh yeah, momentum boost makes DA harder to punish since you go past them quite a ways).
If you instead throw the melon in front of you this is a good way to follow it as well.


EDIT:

Yoooo...

When you do that boosted DA and have the water push you off the ledge, the 1st and second hit of DA will combo into an instant Nair. Near the ledge that can be a great way to close out a stock.

 

[fromundaman]

Double post:

So I just remembered that the youtube upload function was a thing, so here's a concept video of both stuff from the previous post and a few interesting ledge techniques I've been messing with involving odd fruit angles and taunt cancels (I think I mentioned it before, but easier to see with a visual example).

https://youtu.be/1I68-FRQBuc

Ignore the input errors where they occurred.

Hope you guys can help me find stuff with this.

By the way, the delayed fruit thing can be done off of any ledge and works with any fruit, though I find it is most useful with Melon, Galaga and Bell.

If you guys find this useful, I can start uploading more concept videos of other tech as well.

 

[Nu~]

@ fromundaman
@ BSP
@ ToxoT
@ PEPESPAIN
@Froggy
@Maziyah
@Phampy
@Huge
@DrakeRowan
@ MachoCheeze
@ AGES
@ Revibe
@Pacack


I have discovered the a-pac-alypse!

So last night I began theorycrafting as usual and thought, "Just how far can I take dash attack + bell until I make it stupid?"

I thought about comboing it into pac jump to take our opponent to the skies!!!!
... but that was far too weak in practice.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So I then thought about following up with Dair, since it hits harder than uair and the trampoline, and it was able to kill marth at 107%!!

But I wasn't done...I wanted to go further

I tested Nair and was able to kill marth at 98%!!! By now, I was going mad with the power...I craved more...

I thought about what ToxoT said about dash attack -> item tossed bell to side B...and I wanted to know if I could do the same with a charged bell.

At first I couldn't connect it and felt sad, but I tried more and more and eventually learned to combine a technique that we don't use enough. The bonus fruit float.
By dash attacking marth, then full hopping, then holding B for a small amount of time before throwing the bell as I levitated upwards, I was still able to combo the bell and connect with a side B for a kill at 58%!!

Move over ZSS. Pac-Man has the deadliest kill combo. And instead of having to connect with a risky frame 12 grab, all we have to do is connect with a frame 10 dash attack from the middle of the stage!!!

As a matter of fact...I haven't even tested how early this will kill when we are closer to the edge...

And yes, this combos. I even had my training partner mash the jump button to escape but the bell's hit stun lasts too long.

 

[BSP]

snip.

Did you two try attacking or air dodging? You can do both of those before you can jump out of hitstun.

Regardless of what you get, I'm trying it out myself and it's pretty tight. At worst, with a bell ready, I can see Dash attack at ~60% becoming a 50/50 where a read on Pac-Man's part can end the stock.

Edit: trying to test it on omega wily right now. Hitting Marth with DA at 68% can combo into the bell, which leads into a quick side B that doesn't register as a combo. I can't really test combos by myself, but I know I've read that the training mode combo counter doesn't take into account something...it's either airdodging or attacking.

 

[Nu~]

Did you two try attacking or air dodging? You can do both of those before you can jump out of hitstun.

Regardless of what you get, I'm trying it out myself and it's pretty tight. At worst, with a bell ready, I can see Dash attack at ~60% becoming a 50/50 where a read on Pac-Man's part can end the stock.

http://youtu.be/fT_s3LIbRvM

Yeah, we tried attacking as well.

You can always follow up with Nair at 99% if you want an easy guaranteed kill


Edit: for some reason, training mode doesn't take into account combos after the opponent is launched by the bell. Which is weird, because the opponent is still in hitstun when the bell finally launched them.

 

[BSP]

http://youtu.be/fT_s3LIbRvM

Yeah, we tried attacking as well.

You can always follow up with Nair at 99% if you want an easy guaranteed kill


Edit: for some reason, training mode doesn't take into account combos after the opponent is launched by the bell. Which is weird, because the opponent is still in hitstun when the bell finally launched them.

Oh in that case, they're done lol.

There's also DA -> full hop bell (should combo) -> double jump -> turnaround phantom fruit -> Bair

 

[ToxoT]

i usually go for the bell combo around %50, but when you get to %80 it gets harder and harder to land the side b. i thought this was a game changer for pacman, but i guess people didnt understand it was a true combo.

 

[Nu~]

i usually go for the bell combo around %50, but when you get to %80 it gets harder and harder to land the side b. i thought this was a game changer for pacman, but i guess people didnt understand it was a true combo.

Yeah, you're definitely right on that.

Well I guess it's good that Nair and Bair kill combo into it at higher percentages just in case we miss our chance before 80%.

 

[Revibe]

Opponents hitting your trampoline are basically as if they just did their first jump, meaning they can perform any air attack immediately after they hit the trampoline, including air dodge and double jump. This means in order for trampoline combos to be true the followup hitbox must be directly above the trampoline so they can be caught before they are able to air dodge or escape in some other way. The exception to this is being hit by the attack portion of Pac-Jump, where the next hitbox, whether it be a fruit or hydrant, can be further up thanks to the opponent being caught in hitstun/possibly being launched higher from the attack.

Something I've noticed in some videos is using this technique as an edgeguard as well. For example throwing a melon upwards, then using the trampoline to hit the recovering opponent into the melon. Not sure how practical this really is but melon has a bit of muscle to it so if you land this it can kill at reasonable percents. Keep in mind fruits are unaffected by rage/staling

Trampoline follow ups are difficult, I guess by combo's I meant set-ups. I can't help but want to know all the ways to have the opponent trip up on that Red line. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be off-stage, because you can get a free Smash in when the get caught sometimes. I guess I just need to experiment more and report back more findings.
There is this weird zone near the ledge were when you hit Up-B you also ledge grab instantly with no jumps. Then tapping down/sideways will spring you again and you would have the trampoline set up faster. There is another precise spot were when you set your trampoline up near the ledge, you can cancel the entire 3rd bounce half way with a ledge grab, but it isn't reliable unless you know the specifics.

 

[MachoCheeze]

I decided to lab a lot tonight during my frustration and I found something I think might be super interesting.

Basically I thought that no Pac really uses the upwards water spout to use so I decided to mix some z-drop shenanigans in with it. If you z-drop a Galaxian while being carried by the water it'll shoot up, come back down, and hit the hydrant twice and send it whichever way you were facing. So essentially we could be in neutral and have a delayed Hyrant plow through out of the middle of nowhere. This works with the Key as well if you manage to snag it.

I also think we can use this as a way to catch people recovering high. The Melon can kill marth off the top platform of battlefield/miiverse around 125% when gushed up. The key will obviously kill way earlier. Depending on when you z drop your fruit will also determine how high your fruit goes.

I'm sorry if this has been looked at before, but I don't think I've seen a pac really utilize the upwards water spout.

 

[Revibe]

@ MachoCheeze keep up the good study! It's nice to hear.

In General, I was 'labbing around' yesterday as well. How many Pac's also utilize near ledge grabs but don't throw? I mean the kind of grab where when they break free they loft off the side downward. I followed it with an orange, and it is definitely worth trying because you usually cancel their 2nd jump instantly, by their reflects miscall.

Also I was trying to pick up a foot-stool-combo-skill by practicing it against lvl4 and lvl5 cpu's. I learned that grab really does need fixed. There were plenty of times when I hit grab right after being launched by a spurt and there was no connection. I would just fly by them still in the early frames of the grab and covering quiet a bit of distance and they don't even Action and no connection is the outcome. The foot stool thing is also bleh. You can grab them, get spurted off the stage and about 50% of the time you fall just above them (perfect set up for instant foot-stooling) but the other times you fly way up into the air because grab release.

... errrr it's not just Pac's grab range, or start up. That landing time makes Dedede look like a ballerina. Pac man has a lot of tools that would make his plays professional, but I feel like they are the wrong size. Tune-up plz.

 

[Kaiyedy]

I decided to lab a lot tonight during my frustration and I found something I think might be super interesting.

Basically I thought that no Pac really uses the upwards water spout to use so I decided to mix some z-drop shenanigans in with it. If you z-drop a Galaxian while being carried by the water it'll shoot up, come back down, and hit the hydrant twice and send it whichever way you were facing. So essentially we could be in neutral and have a delayed Hyrant plow through out of the middle of nowhere. This works with the Key as well if you manage to snag it.

I also think we can use this as a way to catch people recovering high. The Melon can kill marth off the top platform of battlefield/miiverse around 125% when gushed up. The key will obviously kill way earlier. Depending on when you z drop your fruit will also determine how high your fruit goes.

I'm sorry if this has been looked at before, but I don't think I've seen a pac really utilize the upwards water spout.

Yeah man, this is one of my favorite techs, because if you use they key with this near the edge when someones off of it and try to force them back on, it's pretty much the closest thing Pac is gonna get to an actual wall of pain! Been callin' it the Geyser attack.