Guide Pac Attack - Advanced Techniques and Strategy Guide

[BoxedOccaBerrys]

Wait diddy's damn down-smash (or damn-smash amirite) hits on the ledge i know Fox's does (and falco i think) but not diddy's..?

 

[ToxoT]

here's a replay showing how to do a fast hydrant launch without z dropping. im pretty sure ive seen abadango and few others utilize this, but i think its important for everyone to know. pretty simple, just short hop down b and buffer a nair. you can do this out of short hop fair making approaches easier.

 

[Afrobandit]

I decided to lab a lot tonight during my frustration and I found something I think might be super interesting.

Basically I thought that no Pac really uses the upwards water spout to use so I decided to mix some z-drop shenanigans in with it. If you z-drop a Galaxian while being carried by the water it'll shoot up, come back down, and hit the hydrant twice and send it whichever way you were facing. So essentially we could be in neutral and have a delayed Hyrant plow through out of the middle of nowhere. This works with the Key as well if you manage to snag it.

I also think we can use this as a way to catch people recovering high. The Melon can kill marth off the top platform of battlefield/miiverse around 125% when gushed up. The key will obviously kill way earlier. Depending on when you z drop your fruit will also determine how high your fruit goes.

I'm sorry if this has been looked at before, but I don't think I've seen a pac really utilize the upwards water spout.

Cool, just tested and I love all this quirky stuff with Pac-Man. Not sure if you found out about this as well but if you z-drop the Galaxian as soon as your lifted up by the hydrant's water sprout (start by standing on the hydrant) and move towards the direction your back is facing (while in the air if you move you push the z-droped Galaxian a bit) it will come back down hit the hydrant closer to its side once and the second water sprout (horizontal) will gush it in an arc. The Bell can do it as well and is much easier. The later you z-drop the item the smaller the arc becomes.

 

[Nu~]

We should really start coming up with more deadly galaxian combos. After watching Dee, I've been inspired to get these creative juices flowing again.

So far, these are the most damaging combos i've found with the item tossed galaxian:

At 20%: Galaxian -> Fair -(Galaxian comes around)> Side B angled up
44%

The only challenging part is angling the side B correctly.

At 30%: Galaxian -> Fair -(Galaxian comes around)> Footstool + Nair (DI back)-> opponent flies into Galaxian
42%

This one is tricky. The Galaxian doesn't always fly where you want it to, so it doesn't always connect the second time. The best way to guarantee the second hit is to DI backwards when you Nair. That way, the opponent flies forward at a sharper angle

 

[BSP]

I'm still a fan of:

item toss galaxian -> Fthrow -> Galaxian re-hit -> Inky. It's a quick 42% that is pretty consistent.

 

[Nu~]

I'm still a fan of:

item toss galaxian -> Fthrow -> Galaxian re-hit -> Inky. It's a quick 42% that is pretty consistent.

What percentages does it work at?

 

[BSP]

What percentages does it work at?

I usually only go for it at 0%, but I could see it working up until ~20% against most characters. The more optimal version of the combo is item toss galaxian -> Nair -> galaxian re-hit -> Inky, but heavy and fast falling characters tend to be able to shield before the galaxian re-hit.

 

[Direspect only!]

Is galaxian really fantastic? I feel like I've been overusing it for things like pressure mixups and using it to launch hydrant then dash grabbing it...

 

[Goggalor]

So with the new shield mechanics opening up a lot more shield breaking options for most of the roster, what options has anybody found for Pac-Man? I know I've broken shields before with a jab break hydrant -> melon/key in previous patches, but that was due to my opponents shields already being withered down. I've been thinking of a few ways to do that, but haven't been able to put them to practice yet. I'm sure z-dropping key + hydrant shenanigans would be a sure way to get some shield breaks.

 

[Nu~]

We've found out they z drop key-> hydrant drop -> Nair is a guaranteed shield brake

 

[Huge]

Don't forget that you can start THE FLOOD against campy characters via hydrant drop - SH - ZDrop melon - FF fair to catch the melon and break the hydrant - jump cancel (DITCIT if you're cool) melon toss. That way, you can have one hydrant, one melon, and one Pac-Man approaching the opponent all at once. I'm curious as to whether you can shield break an opponent who tries to block this post patch. Anyway, while you might not think this that practical, I've found it a great tool for breaking walls (villager, duck hunt) when combined with the quick hydrant drop melon catch, because it forces the opponent into a situation with limited options.

 

[Neutricity]

We've found out they z drop key-> hydrant drop -> Nair is a guaranteed shield brake

We got a clip of that on youtube yet?

 

[Nu~]

Almost broke a shield today with galaxian + hydrant. The shield stun is real.

I'm also finding more uses for strawberry and cherry. Since they deal so little damage, they're good for follow ups and disruption.

However, one of my favorite things to do with them is to z drop them when my opponent is throwing projectiles at me. Since fruit can't be destroyed when z dropped or while lying on the ground, constantly dropping cherries and strawberries are a fun and strategic way to block an opponent's projectile camp as you either slowly approach or sit back and wait for them to come to you. You can do it with any fruit really, but low tier fruit are the easiest to get.

Oh, and play around with the apple more. Throwing an apple up when the opponent is in the air is a good way to set up a frame trap. Upwards tossed apple -> wait for air dodge-> trampoline them into the apple.

I'm sorry if I'm telling any of you things that you already know lol

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Reverse Glide Toss against a water gush does every fruit be launched really WEIRD.

When you are pushed by a water gush -> Jump -> zdrop and the fruit will be insta-pushed by it.

I found a really good way to go out from the ledge. I do a insta-wall jump, if you are fast enough you can go from the ledge to wall jump and enter with a bair/nair. It is freaking fast, I only do ->,<- and you perform a wall jump grabed on the ledge. It works on every stage. Smashville T&C and lylat are harder to perform (strict timming) FD,Dreamland, duck hunt are easier (I couldn't do it on battlefield). I did it on my last tournament A LOT , I recommend to see that videos.

 

[Partial_Credit]

Hi guys,

This is my first post on Smashboards. Nice to meetcha. Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules already.
Anyways, I've stopped lurking to share a (possibly) new bread and butter string that I discovered recently:

Fair > FF uair

I believe that using this string to replace the regular old fair > nair that everybody uses precipitates a huuuge step forwards in Pac's combo game. While the spacing is slightly trickier, this string does the same 15% as fair > nair, but due to uair's smaller knockback and upwards trajectory, allows for some nasty followups that can double that 15% damage output.

At low percents, the knockback from uair is so tiny that you just tack any other normal string that you might use right onto the end, which can lead to stuff like:

fair > uair > dash attack > uair (30%)

fair > uair > fair > nair (30%)

fair > uair > fsmash (31%)

(note that none of these followups even begin to include items)

Followups get much easier at mid-percent, (40-70), and it even becomes possible to footstool the opponent after popping them up with uair! This could possibly lead to a jab-lock scenario and massive damage, although I've not gotten it to work thus far. The only concern that I have is that these strings have only been tested in training mode and not against real players, so I have no idea as to if they can be successfully applied in game situations. If this does indeed work outside of training mode, we can try to optimize followups and become that much scarier. If all of this turns out to be useless, I'm sorry for wasting your time and will go back to Brawl forever.

 

[BSP]

Hi guys,

This is my first post on Smashboards. Nice to meetcha. Hopefully I'm not breaking any rules already.
Anyways, I've stopped lurking to share a (possibly) new bread and butter string that I discovered recently:

Fair > FF uair

I believe that using this string to replace the regular old fair > nair that everybody uses precipitates a huuuge step forwards in Pac's combo game. While the spacing is slightly trickier, this string does the same 15% as fair > nair, but due to uair's smaller knockback and upwards trajectory, allows for some nasty followups that can double that 15% damage output.

At low percents, the knockback from uair is so tiny that you just tack any other normal string that you might use right onto the end, which can lead to stuff like:

fair > uair > dash attack > uair (30%)

fair > uair > fair > nair (30%)

fair > uair > fsmash (31%)

(note that none of these followups even begin to include items)

Followups get much easier at mid-percent, (40-70), and it even becomes possible to footstool the opponent after popping them up with uair! This could possibly lead to a jab-lock scenario and massive damage, although I've not gotten it to work thus far. The only concern that I have is that these strings have only been tested in training mode and not against real players, so I have no idea as to if they can be successfully applied in game situations. If this does indeed work outside of training mode, we can try to optimize followups and become that much scarier. If all of this turns out to be useless, I'm sorry for wasting your time and will go back to Brawl forever.

It's ok if you're wrong. We all make mistakes.

I agree with Uair having much better follow up potential than Nair, but those additional 6 frames of startup might allow some characters to aerial out depending on %'s. Fair's hitstun is pretty dang low.

 

[Direspect only!]

I avoid using uair, unless I can use it sadly under them because as bsp stated it is slow, also fair nair has more knock back giving you more time to set up for another trap or approach

 

[AGES]

Fair -> FF uair seems to work pretty well vs characters who don't have an aerial combo breaking move like Mario/Luigi as a close to ground juggle.

Oh yeah, forgot Hydrant Platform was removed(again) so I'll take it out of the OP.

EDIT: Happy slightly early birthday to this thread, lol.

 

[Froggy]

When we are charging out fruit off stage we should all follow Sinji's example and hydrant cancel stead of air dodging, it offers us a lot more recovery.

 

[Sinji]

Has anyone tested out dtilt>up b as a defensive option against grabs? For example, if Shiek goes for dash grab, dtilt should cover it. If Shiek approach with shield in front of us and blocks the dtilt, we can escape using up b.

 

[fromundaman]

Has anyone tested out dtilt>up b as a defensive option against grabs? For example, if Shiek goes for dash grab, dtilt should cover it. If Shiek approach with shield in front of us and blocks the dtilt, we can escape using up b.

A legit use for Dtilt? I'll definitely mess with that.

 

[Froggy]

We may wanna fool around with unspaced fair-to last minute retreat and then key throw-punish the shield grab attempt

 

[fromundaman]

We may wanna fool around with unspaced fair-to last minute retreat and then key throw-punish the shield grab attempt

I actually use that one quite a bit. It's gimmicky, but it can work. That said be careful, because a well timed OoS aerial will hit us before the key comes out, and worst case scenario may even cause us to drop it.

Basically it's good to use, but don't overuse it.
Apple, Orange and Galaga also work pretty well for the same situation.

 

[Nu~]

here's a replay showing how to do a fast hydrant launch without z dropping. im pretty sure ive seen abadango and few others utilize this, but i think its important for everyone to know. pretty simple, just short hop down b and buffer a nair. you can do this out of short hop fair making approaches easier.

Why isn't this getting more attention? If you combine this with z dropping, we can instantly launch hydrants whenever we have ANY fruit in hand. SH fair -> z drop fruit-> hydrant -> Nair

 

[fromundaman]

Why isn't this getting more attention? If you combine this with z dropping, we can instantly launch hydrants whenever we have ANY fruit in hand. SH fair -> z drop fruit-> hydrant -> Nair

I'm not sure cherry always launches if Nair gets stale.

That said like ToxoT said, this isn't new; I know I picked it up from watching Abadango a while back (Although I may not use it as much as I should).

 

[Nu~]

I'm not sure cherry always launches if Nair gets stale.

That said like ToxoT said, this isn't new; I know I picked it up from watching Abadango a while back (Although I may not use it as much as I should).

Well yeah, but there are easier fruit to catch regardless.

I've seen abadango do it too, but no one abuses it as much as they should.

 

[Direspect only!]

Everytime I try this they hit it and it launches haha.

 

[Nu~]

Everytime I try this they hit it and it launches haha.

That's why you combine it with the z dropped fruit. They won't have enough time to launch it unless you are right in front of their face.

 

[verbatim]

We may wanna fool around with unspaced fair-to last minute retreat and then key throw-punish the shield grab attempt

Honestly I don't think giving up a key is worth it for a grab. I'd rather just fair and fade away and keep looking for an opening to confirm a key hit.

While we're on the shieldstun stuff though, does anyone know if melon hit on shield -> fair their shield to grab the melon -> zdrop melon -> fastfall nair break shields/actually works?

 

[Nu~]

@dragontamer
I tried out your Extended dash dance into stutter step fsmash. It truly is amazing for catching ledge options. I combined it with a jabbed hydrant on the ledge to force rolls. Nuetral get up, roll, jump, and attack get ups are nullified. If they stay there, the hydrant falls onto them so the trap is nearly inescapable.

I say "nearly" because I don't know if a ledge drop -> air dodge will beat it. But if that is their only option, we can read it and position ourselves closer to the ledge to cover their landing.

 

[fromundaman]

Honestly I don't think giving up a key is worth it for a grab. I'd rather just fair and fade away and keep looking for an opening to confirm a key hit.

While we're on the shieldstun stuff though, does anyone know if melon hit on shield -> fair their shield to grab the melon -> zdrop melon -> fastfall nair break shields/actually works?

I think you misunderstood, he meant baiting out a shield grab then punishing it with key.


That said the melon thing sadly doesn't work (As in not guaranteed) but can be decent if they don't know the MU. IDK if it breaks shields though as I can't get it off against my local competition. Most of them are aware by now that Fair has no blockstun.

 

[Nu~]

I actually use that one quite a bit. It's gimmicky, but it can work. That said be careful, because a well timed OoS aerial will hit us before the key comes out, and worst case scenario may even cause us to drop it.

Basically it's good to use, but don't overuse it.
Apple, Orange and Galaga also work pretty well for the same situation.

Well, if it helps, I know that z drop galaxian -> bair -> second galaxian bounce does some heavy shield damage. I need to test whether you can follow up with another Bair however. You may need to auto cancel the bair though.

 

[fromundaman]

Well, if it helps, I know that z drop galaxian -> bair -> second galaxian bounce does some heavy shield damage. I need to test whether you can follow up with another Bair however. You may need to auto cancel the bair though.

IDK about a second Bair, but you can follow up with a Ftilt.

That said I have been punished by quick Nairs before the patch. Maybe now it's a true blockstring?

 

[Nu~]

IDK about a second Bair, but you can follow up with a Ftilt.

That said I have been punished by quick Nairs before the patch. Maybe now it's a true blockstring?

It may be.

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Wii Fit Trainer
These are the places where I'm getting my info from. It's what also makes me a bit skeptical about some of the safeness of the moves you described previously. WFT's Nair should still be able to be punished by trampoline and little mac's dtilt can still be escaped by trampoline as well.

 

[fromundaman]

It may be.

View attachment 78890
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Wii Fit Trainer
These are the places where I'm getting my info from. It's what also makes me a bit skeptical about some of the safeness of the moves you described previously. WFT's Nair should still be able to be punished by trampoline and little mac's dtilt can still be escaped by trampoline as well.

What exactly do those numbers correspond to? Because I can almost guarantee if that's the number of frames added based on damage of the move, it is wrong; there is no way Nair gained an additional 7 frames of shieldstun.

 

[Nu~]

What exactly do those numbers correspond to? Because I can almost guarantee if that's the number of frames added based on damage of the move, it is wrong; there is no way Nair gained an additional 7 frames of shieldstun.

That's how much shield stun it has now, not added on.

 

[Revibe]

So... Z-dropping is a great combo system, and we should encourage other players to take their time when Z-dropping or hydrant launching from a dropped bonus fruit. Every time a fruit hits, it deals just as much damage as regular attacks or throws. Plus you can aerial combo. AERIAL COMBO. Hydrants + Z-Drop + Air Attack. This requires just as much aim as ground attacks, but even your trampoline let's you drop attacks safely.

ORANGE is by far one of the best combo fruits. It always has a minimum set knock back, and that includes when it is z-dropped. My favorite thing about z-dropping is that while getting up the ledge, he can drop things in front of him unlike other characters.

I'm requesting a Orange Highlight video. Err, I can't make my own is why.

 

[Direspect only!]

I have a video of some short combos resulting from z drop mix ups. How do you beat them if they shield a z drop, or is it a safe option? My favorite is yo punish roll aways by bairing them back into the fruit lol.

 

[Nu~]

I have a video of some short combos resulting from z drop mix ups. How do you beat them if they shield a z drop, or is it a safe option? My favorite is yo punish roll aways by bairing them back into the fruit lol.

Key and galaxian lock the opponent in shield long enough to drop a hydrant. Always drop a hydrant after the z drop if they shield for heavy shield pressure

 

[Direspect only!]

You're full of good information...