olimar matchup stage counterpicks: anything you want to fill in not already filled on

[Dyyne]

i think frigate is a great oli stage
just camp the left side :D

You could get the same result playing on bf (or a lot of other stages as well for that matter). Except there isn't a ledgeless edge there. Camping the left side definitely is the best strategy you can use for that section though.
And now that I think about it, because the other half of the stage is more bf-esque and it has the random platforms that come to save you, it might not be a horrible olimar level. But just because there are few stages olimar is bad on in general, I think it could still be ban worthy or at least avoided for simply being better than the bad stages, but worse than the good ones.

 

[Dabuz]

i personally have found frigate appaling, the ledgeless side kills you alot or your forced to play left side making you predictable and easy to pressure, and some matchups like mario or luigi are just horrible on the stage, i actualy prefer rc over that stage too often

 

[KillerSOS]

I won't pick it myself but its not worth a ban. RC gets that.

 

[illinialex24]

It depends whether you allow planking but if you do, then Smashville is definitely a better CP for Jigglypuff than RainBow Cruise. However, if not, I agree with you.

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Lucario-Anything is fine.
Ness-Anything is fine
Lucas-If they are lockers, BF or something with jumps/escapes. If not, anything is fine.


Ban whatever you hate the most, or in Lucas' case. If they lock, ban FD.

 

[Zori]

you can jab lock on frigate

 

[KillerSOS]

I luv fighting ness =) thrown pikmin gimp FTW

 

[Dabuz]

uh, whats a locker lucas?

 

[BlackWaltzX]

Lucas players who specialize in dair into jab locks.
It sucks because if they are good with it, it's pretty much a given jab lock. :U


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=havW56Xve5M
0:47


EDIT)) 2:57 also.

 

[KillerSOS]

ow... thats crazyness

 

[Dabuz]

uh, good thing no lucas is smart enough to do this, because thats just, wow

 

[Dabuz]

bumped for justice, and im also starting to think lylat is a horrible stage for oli against marth, thoughts?

 

[Sky Pirate]

I really think you should rethink adding RC as his worst stage for EVERYONE. As long as you keep away during the pendulum part and possibly the ship, it's a pretty good stage for him.

Also, Japes seems like a worse stage against characters like DK or anybody with good horizontal recovery. Perhaps it's just personal preference. ^^;

Sorry for bumping something that hasn't been bumped in a while, but this thread seems pretty useful.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

If Dabuz would be willing to keep up with this thread, I'd like to see it be revised. It's definitely something that I think should be discussed.

And if dabuz doesnt want to mess with it, perhaps another olimar main should instead.

 

[Dabuz]

If Dabuz would be willing to keep up with this thread, I'd like to see it be revised. It's definitely something that I think should be discussed.

And if dabuz doesnt want to mess with it, perhaps another olimar main should instead.

i would, but i feel like it needs to be redone because its outdated...and its kinda confusing imo...

 

[Cook]

What do you guys counterpick against MK?

 

[DanGR]

What do you guys counterpick against MK?

Battlefield. The platforms help against dair camping and juggling is much easier.

I'd be willing to reformat everything, but not necessarily take over. I've done a lot of that sort of stuff for my various threads and some friend's threads.

 

[Fino]

Battlefield. The platforms help against dair camping and juggling is much easier.

*looks at metaknight forums*

Err..... dair camping doesn't work on olimar to begin with...

I CP RC, or lylat.

INB4RCISBAD4OLIMAR

Times I've beaten Meta knights on RC: 35

Times I've lost to Meta knight on RC: 2

Yes, I've kept a tally specifically for this argument ^^;

But I beat razor, judge, and domo on lylat.... having little to no mk experience offline...


~Fino

 

[Sky Pirate]

It's not really confusing, just kinda crammed together. ^^

A few things to add (and correct/slap me if I'm wrong):
Sonic-Best Neutral-Battlefield or YI; The platforms help block his stupid Down Aerial.
DK-Best Neutral-FD or SV; He seems to handle himself better under the low platforms of BF/YI.
And yeah, Fino's pretty right about RC against MK.

Umm... More later (maybe).

 

[Fino]

It's not really confusing, just kinda crammed together. ^^

A few things to add (and correct/slap me if I'm wrong):
Sonic-Best Neutral-Battlefield or YI; The platforms help block his stupid Down Aerial.
DK-Best Neutral-FD or SV; He seems to handle himself better under the low platforms of BF/YI.
And yeah, Fino's pretty right about RC against MK.

Umm... More later (maybe).

idk.... I two stocked ripple (beast dk) on BF.... but then got ***** on norfair.


~Fino

 

[Excellence]

On Frigate Orpheon, you can use a falling NAir while the platform is rising and actually lock your opponent in place while you're doing it. Afterward, you can immediately using a rising NAir and whatever you want after that. It's very situation but I find it both cool and fun to do.

 

[Cook]

idk.... I two stocked ripple (beast dk) on BF.... but then got ***** on norfair.


~Fino

Did you play him before or after the tournament? I beat him kinda bad on Norfair during the tournament, but he seemed really unfamiliar with the matchup and what I could do to him. So playing me might have prepared him for you if you played him after the tourney.

 

[DanGR]

semi-long post

What offline MKs are you winning against on RC? I'd quit this game if I lost there as MK against Oli.

Dair camping does work. Your opponents are doing it wrong if they can't.

 

[Ripple]

it was online asc, so that doesn't really matter.

and truth is the only good match up experience I have is against ICs and DDD. because I don't go to any tournaments besides circuit ones and your the first olimar I played offline.

 

[Dabuz]

Battlefield. The platforms help against dair camping and juggling is much easier.

I'd be willing to reformat everything, but not necessarily take over. I've done a lot of that sort of stuff for my various threads and some friend's threads.

that would be awesome...you make it neater and more understandable...and get rid of cp/counterpick 3 and after, and get rid of lylat cruise where ever i put it in best neutrals, cause it aint neutral no more


also, if i can 3 stock random mk x on bf and lose to that one on rc, no way its good for oli

 

[Cook]

it was online asc, so that doesn't really matter.

and truth is the only good match up experience I have is against ICs and DDD. because I don't go to any tournaments besides circuit ones and your the first olimar I played offline.

Yeah, I could tell you were unfamiliar with it. Olimar is REALLY tough if you don't have experience. We should get in some friendlies next tournament we're both at.

 

[PhatyCHONG]

Diddy vs. Captain Olimar - Stage Discussion

Captain Olimar is currently being Discussed for "Bans" and "Counter Picks" on the "Diddy Stage Discussion boards" if you would like to contribute, discuss, or debate please go to http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225477

Deepest of appreciations, THANKS!
- Diddy Kong Boards

 

[Sky Pirate]

It's been said that everyone plays Oli a little differently, dabuz. What's bad for your Oli might be good for someone else's, especially with a weird stage like RC.

Edit 1: Also, there is NO WAY that RC is the worst stage against Ike.

Edit 2: Correct me harshly if I'm wrong.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

RC is a bad stage for olimar, but it's not his worst stage in every matchup. For example, Lucario. Japes or Frigate would be a much worst stage to fight him at, while lucario isnt even too great at Rainbow Cruise to begin with. Rarely will one CP you to the stage.

Against Ike? Correct, RC is not the worst stage against Ike. It's the second worst, right next to pirate ship. God **** i hate fighting ike at pirate ship....

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I apologize for the double post.

Question: what if the list were to be put in the form of a chart? I could put a chart together similar to what I did for my pikmin pluck percentages if you would like, dabuz. The only thing difficult about it would be keeping it updated regularly, which i could look over as well. I just dont want to see this thread die, seeing how important it'll be for olimar's metagame. Keeping it organized through a chart would keep things from getting confusing (plus i just love making charts :x).

 

[Dabuz]

I apologize for the double post.

Question: what if the list were to be put in the form of a chart? I could put a chart together similar to what I did for my pikmin pluck percentages if you would like, dabuz. The only thing difficult about it would be keeping it updated regularly, which i could look over as well. I just dont want to see this thread die, seeing how important it'll be for olimar's metagame. Keeping it organized through a chart would keep things from getting confusing (plus i just love making charts :x).

ok, that sounds great, i would fix up this list some time but a chart would just be so more convenient

 

[DtJ Hilt]

How about this?

I had to divide it into three charts, however, due it being too big for all five stages in one chart. I could possibly fit "Best Neutral", "Best Counterpick", and "Second Best Counterpick" into a chart to reduce it to two charts, but instead I thought there should be "Second Best Neutral", as you wont always get your best neutral in stage strike against your opponent (Pikachu will always strike Lylat, Luigi will always strike FD).

Character           Best Neutral        Second Best Neutral

Bowser              -                   -
Captain Falcon      -                   -
Diddy Kong          Battlefield         -
Donkey Kong         -                   -
Falco               -                   -
Fox                 -                   -
Ganondorf           Battlefield         -
Ice Climbers        Battlefield         -
Ike                 Battlefield         -
Jigglypuff          -                   -
King DeDeDe         Final Destination   Battlefield
Kirby               -                   -
Link                Battlefield         -
Lucario             -                   -
Lucas               Final Destination   -
Luigi               Final Destination   -
Mario               -                   -
Marth               Battlefield         -
Meta Knight         Lylat               Battlefield
Mr. Game & Watch    Yoshi's Island (B)  -
Ness                Battlefield         -
Peach               Yoshi's Island (B)  -
Pikachu             Lylat               Battlefield
Pit                 -                   -
Pokemon Trainer     Final Destination   -
R.O.B.              Battlefield         -
Samus               -                   -
Sheik               Final Destination   -
Snake               Final Destination   Battlefield
Sonic               -                   -
Toon Link           -                   -
Wario               -                   -
Wolf                Lylat Cruise        -
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -
Zelda               Final Destination   -
Zelda/Shiek         -                   -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -

Character           Best Counterpick    Second Counterpick

Bowser              Luigi's Mansion     -
Captain Falcon      Luigi's Mansion     -
Diddy Kong          Norfair             Luigi's Mansion
Donkey Kong         Luigi's Mansion     -
Falco               Luigi's Mansion     -
Fox                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Ganondorf           Luigi's Mansion     Norfair
Ice Climbers        Norfair             -
Ike                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Jigglypuff          Luigi's Mansion     -
King DeDeDe         Luigi's Mansion     -
Kirby               Luigi's Mansion     -
Link                Luigi's Mansion     -
Lucario             -                   -
Lucas               Norfair             Yoshi's Island (B)
Luigi               Battlefield         -
Mario               Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Marth               Luigi's Mansion     Lylat
Meta Knight         Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Mr. Game & Watch    -                   -
Ness                -                   -
Peach               -                   -
Pikachu             Lylat               -
Pit                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Pokemon Trainer     Luigi's Mansion     Final Destination
R.O.B.              Battlefield         Lylat Cruise
Samus               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sheik               Final Destination   -
Snake               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sonic               Norfair             -
Toon Link           Luigi's Mansion     -
Wario               Luigi's Mansion     -
Wolf                Luigi's Mansion     Lylat Cruise
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -
Zelda               Luigi's Mansion     -
Zelda/Shiek         Luigi's Mansion     -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -

Character           Worst Counterpick   Second Worst Counterpick

Bowser              Rainbow Cruise      -
Captain Falcon      Rainbow Cruise      -
Diddy Kong          Rainbow Cruise      -
Donkey Kong         Rainbow Cruise      -
Falco               Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes
Fox                 Rainbow Cruise      -
Ganondorf           Rainbow Cruise      -
Ice Climbers        Rainbow Cruise      -
Ike                 Rainbow Cruise      -
Jigglypuff          Frigate Orpheon     Rainbow Cruise
King DeDeDe         Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield
Kirby               Rainbow Cruise      -
Link                Rainbow Cruise      -
Lucario             Rainbow Cruise      -
Lucas               Rainbow Cruise      -
Luigi               Rainbow Cruise      -
Mario               Rainbow Cruise      -
Marth               Rainbow Cruise      -
Meta Knight         Rainbow Cruise      Luigi's Mansion
Mr. Game & Watch    Rainbow Cruise      Norfair
Ness                Rainbow Cruise      -
Peach               Rainbow Cruise      -
Pikachu             Rainbow Cruise      Delphino Plaza
Pit                 Rainbow Cruise      -
Pokemon Trainer     Rainbow Cruise      -
R.O.B.              Rainbow Cruise      Frigate Orpheon
Samus               Rainbow Cruise      -
Sheik               Rainbow Cruise      -
Snake               Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield
Sonic               Rainbow Cruise      -
Toon Link           Rainbow Cruise      -
Wario               Rainbow Cruise      -
Wolf                Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes
Yoshi               Rainbow Cruise      -
Zelda               Rainbow Cruise      -
Zelda/Shiek         Rainbow Cruise      -
Zero Suit Samus     Rainbow Cruise      -

Changes:
-Addition of "Second Best Neutral"
-Stages that were not banned when the previous list was made were removed (See Corneria). If there were any stages behind them, they would be bumped up to take its spot.
-Lylat was, and in my opinion should be, considered neutral for this list, as almost every tournament has it as one, for stage striking purposes. As long as we have a second best neutral after it it'll be alright if a tournament doesnt have it as a neutral.


So yeah, if you'd like to use this, dabuz, feel free. You can just copy it to the first post if you want. It's for the most part simple to update, but if you dont feel like updating it, I can do so for you and pm you the changes. Either way works.

 

[Fino]

After playing lain a few times, I think SV is our best neutral.


~Fino

 

[DanGR]

After playing lain a few times, I think SV is our best neutral.


~Fino

I have to disagree, though I haven't played him. >_> Generally, the more platforms there are, the better. Lylat is great because the ship tilts and this can mess them up.

Also, Hilt- I'm fairly certain norfair is banned now. Love the chart. ^_^ I never figured out how to make one using html.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Norfair is counterpick/banned actually (although I'd be fine with it banned, haha).

 

[Dabuz]

How about this?

I had to divide it into three charts, however, due it being too big for all five stages in one chart. I could possibly fit "Best Neutral", "Best Counterpick", and "Second Best Counterpick" into a chart to reduce it to two charts, but instead I thought there should be "Second Best Neutral", as you wont always get your best neutral in stage strike against your opponent (Pikachu will always strike Lylat, Luigi will always strike FD).

Character           Best Neutral        Second Best Neutral

Bowser              -                   -
Captain Falcon      -                   -
Diddy Kong          Battlefield         -
Donkey Kong         -                   -
Falco               -                   -
Fox                 -                   -
Ganondorf           Battlefield         -
Ice Climbers        Battlefield         -
Ike                 Battlefield         -
Jigglypuff          -                   -
King DeDeDe         Final Destination   Battlefield
Kirby               -                   -
Link                Battlefield         -
Lucario             -                   -
Lucas               Final Destination   -
Luigi               Final Destination   -
Mario               -                   -
Marth               Battlefield         -
Meta Knight         Lylat               Battlefield
Mr. Game & Watch    Yoshi's Island (B)  -
Ness                Battlefield         -
Peach               Yoshi's Island (B)  -
Pikachu             Lylat               Battlefield
Pit                 -                   -
Pokemon Trainer     Final Destination   -
R.O.B.              Battlefield         -
Samus               -                   -
Sheik               Final Destination   -
Snake               Final Destination   Battlefield
Sonic               -                   -
Toon Link           -                   -
Wario               -                   -
Wolf                Lylat Cruise        -
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -
Zelda               Final Destination   -
Zelda/Shiek         -                   -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -

Character           Best Counterpick    Second Counterpick

Bowser              Luigi's Mansion     -
Captain Falcon      Luigi's Mansion     -
Diddy Kong          Norfair             Luigi's Mansion
Donkey Kong         Luigi's Mansion     -
Falco               Luigi's Mansion     -
Fox                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Ganondorf           Luigi's Mansion     Norfair
Ice Climbers        Norfair             -
Ike                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Jigglypuff          Luigi's Mansion     -
King DeDeDe         Luigi's Mansion     -
Kirby               Luigi's Mansion     -
Link                Luigi's Mansion     -
Lucario             -                   -
Lucas               Norfair             Yoshi's Island (B)
Luigi               Battlefield         -
Mario               Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Marth               Luigi's Mansion     Lylat
Meta Knight         Pokemon Stadium 1   Lylat
Mr. Game & Watch    -                   -
Ness                -                   -
Peach               -                   -
Pikachu             Lylat               -
Pit                 Luigi's Mansion     -
Pokemon Trainer     Luigi's Mansion     Final Destination
R.O.B.              Battlefield         Lylat Cruise
Samus               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sheik               Final Destination   -
Snake               Luigi's Mansion     -
Sonic               Norfair             -
Toon Link           Luigi's Mansion     -
Wario               Luigi's Mansion     -
Wolf                Luigi's Mansion     Lylat Cruise
Yoshi               Lylat Cruise        -
Zelda               Luigi's Mansion     -
Zelda/Shiek         Luigi's Mansion     -
Zero Suit Samus     Final Destination   -

Character           Worst Counterpick   Second Worst Counterpick

Bowser              Rainbow Cruise      -
Captain Falcon      Rainbow Cruise      -
Diddy Kong          Rainbow Cruise      -
Donkey Kong         Rainbow Cruise      -
Falco               Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes
Fox                 Rainbow Cruise      -
Ganondorf           Rainbow Cruise      -
Ice Climbers        Rainbow Cruise      -
Ike                 Rainbow Cruise      -
Jigglypuff          Frigate Orpheon     Rainbow Cruise
King DeDeDe         Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield
Kirby               Rainbow Cruise      -
Link                Rainbow Cruise      -
Lucario             Rainbow Cruise      -
Lucas               Rainbow Cruise      -
Luigi               Rainbow Cruise      -
Mario               Rainbow Cruise      -
Marth               Rainbow Cruise      -
Meta Knight         Rainbow Cruise      Luigi's Mansion
Mr. Game & Watch    Rainbow Cruise      Norfair
Ness                Rainbow Cruise      -
Peach               Rainbow Cruise      -
Pikachu             Rainbow Cruise      Delphino Plaza
Pit                 Rainbow Cruise      -
Pokemon Trainer     Rainbow Cruise      -
R.O.B.              Rainbow Cruise      Frigate Orpheon
Samus               Rainbow Cruise      -
Sheik               Rainbow Cruise      -
Snake               Rainbow Cruise      Battlefield
Sonic               Rainbow Cruise      -
Toon Link           Rainbow Cruise      -
Wario               Rainbow Cruise      -
Wolf                Rainbow Cruise      Jungle Japes
Yoshi               Rainbow Cruise      -
Zelda               Rainbow Cruise      -
Zelda/Shiek         Rainbow Cruise      -
Zero Suit Samus     Rainbow Cruise      -

Changes:
-Addition of "Second Best Neutral"
-Stages that were not banned when the previous list was made were removed (See Corneria). If there were any stages behind them, they would be bumped up to take its spot.
-Lylat was, and in my opinion should be, considered neutral for this list, as almost every tournament has it as one, for stage striking purposes. As long as we have a second best neutral after it it'll be alright if a tournament doesnt have it as a neutral.


So yeah, if you'd like to use this, dabuz, feel free. You can just copy it to the first post if you want. It's for the most part simple to update, but if you dont feel like updating it, I can do so for you and pm you the changes. Either way works.

edit: whenever i copy and paste the code part disappears...

double edit: nvm i figured out why


yeah, this is awesome, ill update the front right now, ill also do some changes of my own to the chart, mainly with ban worthy stages and ill make notes of them on the front

 

[DtJ Hilt]

By the way, dabuz, in order to keep the alignment in the chart, for the middle column you want to have the number of letters(plus spaces) equal out to 20 by adding extra spaces at the end. For example, "Battlefield" is an eleven letter word so you'd add nine spaces after it. Sucks SWF cant have a simple way for us to use charts lol.

 

[Dabuz]

ok, ill get it decently organized


also, i added a few stages and im thinking about frigate for a variety of characters as best/second best cp: peach, snake, wario, game and watch, DK, thoughts please(i really love frigate though so thats why)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

ok, ill get it decently organized


also, i added a few stages and im thinking about frigate for a variety of characters as best/second best cp: peach, snake, wario, game and watch, DK, thoughts please(i really love frigate though so thats why)

yes yes yes yes yes

<3 Frigate

I think that olimar's three bad stages (RC, frigate, and japes), should be looked at a bit more, instead of just immediately thought to always be horrifically bad. And I like frigate as well.

I think it should be considered that if both characters are messed up by the stage, who gets messed up by it more? I'd fight for it to be a bad stage against peach at the least, and possibly DK as well. I saw your fight against ally, dabuz, so i understand why you mentioned snake lol. Now that I think about it, though, snake cant take advantage of olimar's lack of a ledge by easily tossing/juggleing olimar off the right side, other than his throws.

Go more indepth inoto your reasons dabuz, i'm interested ;D

 

[Dabuz]

yes yes yes yes yes

<3 Frigate

I think that olimar's three bad stages (RC, frigate, and japes), should be looked at a bit more, instead of just immediately thought to always be horrifically bad. And I like frigate as well.

I think it should be considered that if both characters are messed up by the stage, who gets messed up by it more? I'd fight for it to be a bad stage against peach at the least, and possibly DK as well. I saw your fight against ally, dabuz, so i understand why you mentioned snake lol. Now that I think about it, though, snake cant take advantage of olimar's lack of a ledge by easily tossing/juggleing olimar off the right side, other than his throws.

Go more indepth inoto your reasons dabuz, i'm interested ;D

well, for frigate, there are two main problems most people have against it, both of which aren't really problems tbh

one, obviously the lack of edge: just camp on left side which is the better of the two for oli anyway, oli can actually take advantage of the right side anyway, because the stage can get so low its great camp anyway and can be abused for recovering, also, oli can abuse it with his great grab release off it to fsmash or dair which is a great gimp, generally grab combos off that edge can lead to great gimps as well, very few characters can actually use the ledgeless side as well as oli, also, whistle armor>gimping off that edge

2: flipping of the stage: timing a jump right is easy enough, not a concern IMO


now: there are three main reasons its good

1: purple+yellow pikmin!!!!!!!!!!! you get more purple pikmin! i don't have to explain their usefulness which i love to abuse so its normally such a great help in matches, the yellows also help a lot against very aerial characters who have high priority like wario but i manly care about the purples

2: stage layout: generally first form is decent for oli, nothing special besides what ive already noted but the second form is very good for oli , its a basically a BF/YI mix, both which are stages i love so its naturally great for me

3: harder to gimp/ chance of random saving, similar to YI there are randomly appearing platforms which can easily save you, self explanatory


as long as you don't try to play a mainly right sided stage for first form and remember to jump when stage will flip there aren't any disadvantages to this stage, and a good amount of advantages, its a great oli stage for a some match ups but in general isn't a bad stage for oli,